Institutional Action (IA) and ramifications of it

[Battlejkax]

I am a senior about to graduate at the beginning of the upcoming cycle. After this coming spring semester, I will have been an undergrad for 2.5 years and leave with a BS. Along with this short time in undergrad, I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd semester in UG. A little background into it: I was in an online Orgo lab and had mistakenly plagiarized portions of a minor lab report. When I say mistakenly plagiarized, I mean that I did not try to edit sentences/ paraphrase and such in a way that it would be undetectable by a plagiarism checker or pass it off as my work, but I had mistakenly left a portion of a classmates answers as "placeholders" so I could come back to it later, and just have it there as an explanation of what a question was looking for (and yes, the classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules). I had meant to go back to finish my work, but had mistakenly turned it in. Now I accept that this is my wrongdoing for even hitting the submit button without double-checking and I paid the price. I had gotten a written warning and credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. Here is where I am at a crossroads; it was clearly a mistake on my end, and in the written warning, the school did find that it was something that appears unintentional.

Now I know I would probably get a lot of flak for even THINKING of the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE downplaying the IA, maybe some responses are along the lines of "It's plagiarism ur done...kiss medicine goodbye...you deserve it..etc.". Should I downplay (and I'm not saying downplay it so much I am lying, but downplay within reason of what is reported) the plagiarism IA? Why or why not?

Another thing is many people seem to think of having more time between the IA and your app to medical school, but I won't have access to the scholarships and opportunities I have if I drag along my UG or even a bost-bac for another 3-4 years. What are your thoughts and opinions?

I have done a fair bit of digging on SDN, Reddit, AAMC and TMDSAS for any and all knowledge on IA and how they affect and kill applications, and I really haven't seen anyone ever fail to report a serious IA and get found out, and there is always a "Maybe adcom will find out, maybe this will happen, maybe that will happen" and etc.. Has anyone actually not reported it and got caught? Everything I have seen is about what could hypothetically happen with not reporting an IA, never an actual story of someone who had done it.

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[Goro]

This is minor. Just own it.

 

[Battlejkax]

This is minor. Just own it.

Thank you, I have read many of your posts and saw cheating and plagiarism lumped into the "Change careers" IA, and was a bit worried about how similar it is to accidental plagiarism.

 

[bcf_lasagna]

I am a senior about to graduate at the beginning of the upcoming cycle. After this coming spring semester, I will have been an undergrad for 2.5 years and leave with a BS. Along with this short time in undergrad, I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd and 3rd semesters in UG. A little background into it: I was in an online Orgo lab and had mistakenly plagiarized portions of a minor lab report. When I say mistakenly plagiarized, I mean that I did not try to edit sentences/ paraphrase and such in a way that it would be undetectable by a plagiarism checker or pass it off as my work, but I had mistakenly left a portion of a classmates answers as "placeholders" so I could come back to it later, and just have it there as an explanation of what a question was looking for (and yes, the classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules). I had meant to go back to finish my work, but had mistakenly turned it in. Now I accept that this is my wrongdoing for even hitting the submit button without double-checking and I paid the price. I had gotten a written warning and credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. Here is where I am at a crossroads; it was clearly a mistake on my end, and in the written warning, the school did find that it was something that appears unintentional.

Now I know I would probably get a lot of flak for even THINKING of the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE downplaying the IA, maybe some responses are along the lines of "It's plagiarism ur done...kiss medicine goodbye...you deserve it..etc.". Should I downplay (and I'm not saying downplay it so much I am lying, but downplay within reason of what is reported) the plagiarism IA? Why or why not?

Another thing is many people seem to think of having more time between the IA and your app to medical school, but I won't have access to the scholarships and opportunities I have if I drag along my UG or even a bost-bac for another 3-4 years. What are your thoughts and opinions?

I have done a fair bit of digging on SDN, Reddit, AAMC and TMDSAS for any and all knowledge on IA and how they affect and kill applications, and I really haven't seen anyone ever fail to report a serious IA and get found out, and there is always a "Maybe adcom will find out, maybe this will happen, maybe that will happen" and etc.. Has anyone actually not reported it and got caught? Everything I have seen is about what could hypothetically happen with not reporting an IA, never an actual story of someone who had done it.

I would agree with Goro. We are human beings and we make mistakes. If what you did is unintentional, then you should be willing to explain what happened on the application. Just be honest and give the objective truth, and explain what led to the minor plagiarism infraction. Definitely don’t downplay or avoid bringing it up, it will be found anyways.

Tbh I’m an undergrad premed and the same thing happened to me as a freshman. I had unintentional plagiarism by using my notes that I didn’t realize were not in my own words (which led to a written warning). I know the feeling of falling down a rabbit hole and trying to find success stories online. The truth is that there are several discussion posts about IAs, but they’re all different and won’t relate to individual cases.

So be honest in your explanation of what happened, and try to think of something you’ve done to ensure it won’t be an issue moving forward. Keep a clean record and make sure this is the only IA you have. That will go a long way in illustrating this as an isolated incident. Lastly, have a plan B. I think all premeds should have a plan B, but it’s important to think of one. Something that is related to your major, or another healthcare career like nursing (accelerated BSN), 2 year programs, trades, you name it. The IA MIGHT impact med school chances (also might not), but you’ll still have several career options out there. For now, stick the course and work hard.

 

[Crayola227]

If you explain this you'll likely be OK some places (obviously some maybe not)

However if you don't report and it gets found out, you're in a world of hurt.

Also, you'll have to look over your shoulder the rest of your entire career, even after med school graduation. Dishonesty on an app (most schools ask about IAs) is one of the rare reasons that a school can invalidate your degree even after graduation.

 

[Battlejkax]

If you explain this you'll likely be OK some places (obviously some maybe not)

However if you don't report and it gets found out, you're in a world of hurt.

Also, you'll have to look over your shoulder the rest of your entire career, even after med school graduation. Dishonesty on an app (most schools ask about IAs) is one of the rare reasons that a school can invalidate your degree even after application.

I could imagine, though the mindset of "what's the point in fearing IN medical school when this IA will prevent me from getting into medical school" has crossed my mind many times tbh. But through my research, it is most likely that the AAMC or TMDSAS application will force you to tick a box allowing the medical schools to "receive" any potential disciplinary record at your UG school.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

Plenty of people have been accepted to med schools with IA. Focus on having such a strong app they can’t help but interview you - that’s all you can do

Don’t try to downplay it too much. I would even hesitate to label it as a mistake rather than a poor decision. Own up to it.

 

[Crayola227]

I could imagine, though the mindset of "what's the point in fearing IN medical school when this IA will prevent me from getting into medical school" has crossed my mind many times tbh. But through my research, it is most likely that the AAMC or TMDSAS application will force you to tick a box allowing the medical schools to "receive" any potential disciplinary record at your UG school.

That's my point. You have no good way to hide the info, and if it comes out you're tanked. Better to get in with them knowing. Or hell, better to NOT get in because they know, than whatever might come later.

 

[bcf_lasagna]

Plenty of people have been accepted to med schools with IA. Focus on having such a strong app they can’t help but interview you - that’s all you can do

Don’t try to downplay it too much. I would even hesitate to label it as a mistake rather than a poor decision. Own up to it.

Exactly. And just to reiterate what I was trying to say earlier, definitely do not try to downplay or mislead regarding the situation. Your situation sounds like an honest mistake, and I think an admissions committee member (who remember, is also a human being who will 95 percent of the time read your IA essay) will appreciate the applicant showing candor. As can be the case with having a low GPA early in college, or a poor MCAT on your first try, I believe that showing growth as you go through the process is most important.

 

[holdthemayo]

I am a senior about to graduate at the beginning of the upcoming cycle. After this coming spring semester, I will have been an undergrad for 2.5 years and leave with a BS. Along with this short time in undergrad, I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd and 3rd semesters in UG. A little background into it: I was in an online Orgo lab and had mistakenly plagiarized portions of a minor lab report. When I say mistakenly plagiarized, I mean that I did not try to edit sentences/ paraphrase and such in a way that it would be undetectable by a plagiarism checker or pass it off as my work, but I had mistakenly left a portion of a classmates answers as "placeholders" so I could come back to it later, and just have it there as an explanation of what a question was looking for (and yes, the classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules). I had meant to go back to finish my work, but had mistakenly turned it in. Now I accept that this is my wrongdoing for even hitting the submit button without double-checking and I paid the price. I had gotten a written warning and credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. Here is where I am at a crossroads; it was clearly a mistake on my end, and in the written warning, the school did find that it was something that appears unintentional.

Now I know I would probably get a lot of flak for even THINKING of the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE downplaying the IA, maybe some responses are along the lines of "It's plagiarism ur done...kiss medicine goodbye...you deserve it..etc.". Should I downplay (and I'm not saying downplay it so much I am lying, but downplay within reason of what is reported) the plagiarism IA? Why or why not?

Another thing is many people seem to think of having more time between the IA and your app to medical school, but I won't have access to the scholarships and opportunities I have if I drag along my UG or even a bost-bac for another 3-4 years. What are your thoughts and opinions?

I have done a fair bit of digging on SDN, Reddit, AAMC and TMDSAS for any and all knowledge on IA and how they affect and kill applications, and I really haven't seen anyone ever fail to report a serious IA and get found out, and there is always a "Maybe adcom will find out, maybe this will happen, maybe that will happen" and etc.. Has anyone actually not reported it and got caught? Everything I have seen is about what could hypothetically happen with not reporting an IA, never an actual story of someone who had done it.

Don't hide it. Explain it clearly. Say you learned something from it. And move on.

If you didn't report it, would you be caught? Idk, probably not. But I would reject you for trying to hide it, I wouldn't think twice about it if you reported it.

This is a minor mistake and shouldn't hold you back unless you try to lie about it or are weird about it.

 

[candbgirl]

Don't hide it. Explain it clearly. Say you learned something from it. And move on.

If you didn't report it, would you be caught? Idk, probably not. But I would reject you for trying to hide it, I wouldn't think twice about it if you reported it.

This is a minor mistake and shouldn't hold you back unless you try to lie about it or are weird about it.

This. Be careful when you are writing it in AMCAS. Currently you have so much verbiage that it seems you are working hard to explain it away or in the least offensive way possible. I had to read your description twice to even be sure what you did. Be straight forward, you use a lot of qualifiers that seem like you are trying to diminish what you did. So just blurt it out and be done.
Do you have one or two IAs? (“I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd and 3rd semesters in UG”.)
If you do this right, you’ll be just fine.(IMO)

 

[Battlejkax]

This. Be careful when you are writing it in AMCAS. Currently you have so much verbiage that it seems you are working hard to explain it away or in the least offensive way possible. I had to read your description twice to even be sure what you did. Be straight forward, you use a lot of qualifiers that seem like you are trying to diminish what you did. So just blurt it out and be done.
Do you have one or two IAs? (“I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd and 3rd semesters in UG”.)
If you do this right, you’ll be just fine.(IMO)

Thanks for the response, and yes, it was only 1 IA that happened. And to the point of my explanation being difficult, I want to make it as simple as possible, but considering it was unintentional, it isn't the same as trying to dupe the plagiarism checker or the professor that I had done the work, how would I condense that and or make it easier to understand. (I believe the saying is the simpler the explanation the more likely it's the truth idk)

 

[candbgirl]

Just about every single response you have received has mentioned keeping it clear, owning it, saying what happened and then move on. Based on that , there does seem to be an issue with explaining your situation. I’m leaning towards you being less than enthusiastic about owning what happened. Until you can say clearly and strongly that you received an IA for doing x,y and z and that you fully accept what you did and understand the implications and what you have learned from going through this process. You will continue to unintentionally provide the impression that you are trying to hide something.ADCOMS are smart. They can see through things.
You are so busy trying to convince your self that this is minor and it wasn’t what you meant to do and it shouldn’t be counted against you that you are getting lost in words. We’ve told you it’s probably no big deal at most schools. You can’t worry about what people will think. You need to be brief, clear, declare ownership and move on.
Good luck.

 

[Battlejkax]

Just about every single response you have received has mentioned keeping it clear, owning it, saying what happened and then move on. Based on that , there does seem to be an issue with explaining your situation. I’m leaning towards you being less than enthusiastic about owning what happened. Until you can say clearly and strongly that you received an IA for doing x,y and z and that you fully accept what you did and understand the implications and what you have learned from going through this process. You will continue to unintentionally provide the impression that you are trying to hide something.ADCOMS are smart. They can see through things.
You are so busy trying to convince your self that this is minor and it wasn’t what you meant to do and it shouldn’t be counted against you that you are getting lost in words. We’ve told you it’s probably no big deal at most schools. You can’t worry about what people will think. You need to be brief, clear, declare ownership and move on.
Good luck.

I'm sorry if I come across as hiding anything, but I would imagine it would be important to distinguish something that was accidental plagiarism vs intentional plagiarism. My issue isn't I don't want the truth to come out, it's that I want to be able to explain it to the point where it is as simple and as straightforward an explanation I can write. With that in mind, should I even attempt to discern that my plagiarism was accidental, or just lump it under the entire umbrella term that is plagiarism?

 

[LizzyM]

Here's how I would rephrase your statement.

In [insert year here], I was enrolled in an online Orgo lab. I submitted a lab report that contained a portion of a classmate's answers as "placeholders". The classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules. However, I submitted the draft containing the classmate's words rather than going back and answering that section myself, as I had meant to do. I received a written warning that noted that the misconduct appeared unintentional. I received credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. I realize that I should have double-checked my work before submitting the assignment and I have been much more careful ever since.

 

[Battlejkax]

Here's how I would rephrase your statement.

In [insert year here], I was enrolled in an online Orgo lab. I submitted a lab report that contained a portion of a classmate's answers as "placeholders". The classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules. However, I submitted the draft containing the classmate's words rather than going back and answering that section myself, as I had meant to do. I received a written warning that noted that the misconduct appeared unintentional. I received credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. I realize that I should have double-checked my work before submitting the assignment and I have been much more careful ever since.

This is a very good and simple explanation to start with, and it hits all of the points as well, Thank you!

 

[bcf_lasagna]

I'm sorry if I come across as hiding anything, but I would imagine it would be important to distinguish something that was accidental plagiarism vs intentional plagiarism. My issue isn't I don't want the truth to come out, it's that I want to be able to explain it to the point where it is as simple and as straightforward an explanation I can write. With that in mind, should I even attempt to discern that my plagiarism was accidental, or just lump it under the entire umbrella term that is plagiarism?

Hey, I have had these same worries in the past with my own IA for accidental plagiarism. Like someone posted earlier, adcoms are smart. I don’t think you necessarily have to say that it was accidental. Just use the details and I figure that should be enough, you know? But most importantly, take the responsibility. Also I’d recommend just writing about what you did with yourself perhaps to ensure that never happens again

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

When it comes to IA/convictions, volume is the most important factor. Some schools don’t have time to read explanations or supporting notes, and therefore will ding when the see the red flag. In order to combat auto-rejection, applicants can apply to more schools increasing the number that will actually read an explanation or supplementary letter of rec.

For example, I didnt even get secondaries at UCSD or UCLA but have had moderate success by increasing the number of schools to which I applied.

 

[allseasons]

I am a senior about to graduate at the beginning of the upcoming cycle. After this coming spring semester, I will have been an undergrad for 2.5 years and leave with a BS. Along with this short time in undergrad, I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd and 3rd semesters in UG. A little background into it: I was in an online Orgo lab and had mistakenly plagiarized portions of a minor lab report. When I say mistakenly plagiarized, I mean that I did not try to edit sentences/ paraphrase and such in a way that it would be undetectable by a plagiarism checker or pass it off as my work, but I had mistakenly left a portion of a classmates answers as "placeholders" so I could come back to it later, and just have it there as an explanation of what a question was looking for (and yes, the classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules). I had meant to go back to finish my work, but had mistakenly turned it in. Now I accept that this is my wrongdoing for even hitting the submit button without double-checking and I paid the price. I had gotten a written warning and credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. Here is where I am at a crossroads; it was clearly a mistake on my end, and in the written warning, the school did find that it was something that appears unintentional.

Now I know I would probably get a lot of flak for even THINKING of the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE downplaying the IA, maybe some responses are along the lines of "It's plagiarism ur done...kiss medicine goodbye...you deserve it..etc.". Should I downplay (and I'm not saying downplay it so much I am lying, but downplay within reason of what is reported) the plagiarism IA? Why or why not?

Another thing is many people seem to think of having more time between the IA and your app to medical school, but I won't have access to the scholarships and opportunities I have if I drag along my UG or even a bost-bac for another 3-4 years. What are your thoughts and opinions?

I have done a fair bit of digging on SDN, Reddit, AAMC and TMDSAS for any and all knowledge on IA and how they affect and kill applications, and I really haven't seen anyone ever fail to report a serious IA and get found out, and there is always a "Maybe adcom will find out, maybe this will happen, maybe that will happen" and etc.. Has anyone actually not reported it and got caught? Everything I have seen is about what could hypothetically happen with not reporting an IA, never an actual story of someone who had done it.

I would recommend first finding if your written warning constitutes an externally reported IA. A few of my friends received written warnings at my uni, and were told they were strictly internal and would never be disclosed. None of them reported it, and all are currently in second year of various grad schools (med/dental/pharm) without issues. It was kind of unclear if they even constituted IAs, as my uni kind of sidestepped the issue (when asked, they replied it would never be disclosed rather than clarifying whether or not it was an IA). At my university, at least, I absolutely would not report any written warnings. YMMV.

 

[LizzyM]

I would recommend first finding if your written warning constitutes an externally reported IA. A few of my friends received written warnings at my uni, and were told they were strictly internal and would never be disclosed. None of them reported it, and all are currently in second year of various grad schools (med/dental/pharm) without issues. It was kind of unclear if they even constituted IAs, as my uni kind of sidestepped the issue (when asked, they replied it would never be disclosed rather than clarifying whether or not it was an IA). At my university, at least, I absolutely would not report any written warnings. YMMV.

Anyone applying to MD school should read the AMCAS instructions carefully and consult with university officials and sharing the AMCAS instructions if there is any question whatsoever about a possible IA. The AMCAS application requires that the applicant attest that the information is accurate and complete. Failure to disclose an IA, even one that the school says is not "externally reported", would be grounds for revoking an offer of admission and could even result in dismissal from medical school for falsification of one's application. Given that the most serious IAs are for dishonesty, compounding it by being dishonest in the application process really tells us more than we need to know about an applicant's suitability for a career in medicine.

Applicants: proceed carefully and fully aware of the potential downstream effects of your decisions.

 

[Battlejkax]

I would recommend first finding if your written warning constitutes an externally reported IA. A few of my friends received written warnings at my uni, and were told they were strictly internal and would never be disclosed. None of them reported it, and all are currently in second year of various grad schools (med/dental/pharm) without issues. It was kind of unclear if they even constituted IAs, as my uni kind of sidestepped the issue (when asked, they replied it would never be disclosed rather than clarifying whether or not it was an IA). At my university, at least, I absolutely would not report any written warnings. YMMV.

I had thought about that and done my research. My school does have it on record, and the fact of the matter is that this had went through a hearing and all that jazz, which is kept in records by the school for 7 years. With that being said I also read up on how the TMDSAS actually finds about about your disciplinary record, and what I have read was to even USE TMDSAS app services, you have to waive your FERPA to them, granting med schools access into your records from UG. So even if I don't report it, the schools will let them know I do indeed have a disciplinary record, and send it to them.

Anyone applying to MD school should read the AMCAS instructions carefully and consult with university officials and sharing the AMCAS instructions if there is any question whatsoever about a possible IA. The AMCAS application requires that the applicant attest that the information is accurate and complete. Failure to disclose an IA, even one that the school says is not "externally reported", would be grounds for revoking an offer of admission and could even result in dismissal from medical school for falsification of one's application. Given that the most serious IAs are for dishonesty, compounding it by being dishonest in the application process really tells us more than we need to know about an applicant's suitability for a career in medicine.

Applicants: proceed carefully and fully aware of the potential downstream effects of your decisions.

If I am not mistaken, TMDSAS and AMCAS do not have the exact same language when it comes to IA and reporting them, but TMDSAS goes off whether an action was taken. I've read through many threads; and while there is disagreement whether a warning counts as an "action", it is my understanding that the fact that there was hearing/investigation, that is enough of an action to report the warning

 

[Goro]

Anyone applying to MD school should read the AMCAS instructions carefully and consult with university officials and sharing the AMCAS instructions if there is any question whatsoever about a possible IA. The AMCAS application requires that the applicant attest that the information is accurate and complete. Failure to disclose an IA, even one that the school says is not "externally reported", would be grounds for revoking an offer of admission and could even result in dismissal from medical school for falsification of one's application. Given that the most serious IAs are for dishonesty, compounding it by being dishonest in the application process really tells us more than we need to know about an applicant's suitability for a career in medicine.

Applicants: proceed carefully and fully aware of the potential downstream effects of your decisions.

My school has rejected interviewees when they were outed by LOR writers saying things like "....allseasons has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident"

 

[allseasons]

My school has rejected interviewees when they were outed by LOR writers saying things like "....allseasons has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident"

honestly that just comes down to choosing letter writers carefully and asking them whether they would write about the incident. In the case I mentioned, all of it stemmed from a single cheating incident on a test with multiple people involved, and all of them got rec letters from that same prof. My friend asked whether her the prof would write about her incident and he said no. The end, never came up, she (and the rest) got accepted and are doing great in Y2.

@LizzyM totally understand your POV, but honestly you can't really expel someone for something they literally can't know and cannot corroborate. As in, if something caused your med school to suspect something was wrong, and they reached out and asked my institution, "Does X candidate have an IA" my institution would reply no if it was a written warning. Unless you yourself disclose everything later for some reason, the med school truly has no way of acting on this. One of my friends actually matriculated within that same university (we have a med/dental/pham school) and even they have no access to this record.

@Battlejkax I can't speak to TMDSAS, but imo, the easiest way forward here is to email your disciplinary action office and ask "was this incident an IA" or "should I report warnings on my med school applications", and make sure to save their response. If they say it doesn't count and later it turns out it does, you can just show their response as justification. This is just what I would do, not going to make a recommendation for you as idk your risk tolerance and ethical standards etc.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Keep in mind, some letter writers might think more highly of an applicant if he or she owns up to it and proves growth since the incident. I was upfront with my letter writers who wrote me new LoRs and the pre health committee. Both incorporated it into their letters (or at least they told me that they did). I highly recommend having a professor or mentor vouch for applicants despite mistakes made in the past. These letters are a much stronger testament to growth following poor choices than personal explanations.

 

[Battlejkax]

Keep in mind, some letter writers might think more highly of an applicant if he or she owns up to it and proves growth since the incident. I was upfront with my letter writers who wrote me new LoRs and the pre health committee. Both incorporated it into their letters (or at least they told me that they did). I highly recommend having a professor or mentor vouch for applicants despite mistakes made in the past. These letters are a much stronger testament to growth following poor choices than personal explanations.

This happened about 2 years ago, so it isn't something I kept in touch about with the professor, especially because I did not have another class with the supervising prof again (I had finished all chem reqs). One thing is that I have been working on a publication for the past year as well, and hopefully if all goes smooth, I'll have a publication before I apply. Maybe that will show I was able to grow and become much more diligent and responsible?

 

[Browns99]

I am a senior about to graduate at the beginning of the upcoming cycle. After this coming spring semester, I will have been an undergrad for 2.5 years and leave with a BS. Along with this short time in undergrad, I also have a single IA on my record during my 2nd and 3rd semesters in UG. A little background into it: I was in an online Orgo lab and had mistakenly plagiarized portions of a minor lab report. When I say mistakenly plagiarized, I mean that I did not try to edit sentences/ paraphrase and such in a way that it would be undetectable by a plagiarism checker or pass it off as my work, but I had mistakenly left a portion of a classmates answers as "placeholders" so I could come back to it later, and just have it there as an explanation of what a question was looking for (and yes, the classmate and I worked together, which was not against the rules). I had meant to go back to finish my work, but had mistakenly turned it in. Now I accept that this is my wrongdoing for even hitting the submit button without double-checking and I paid the price. I had gotten a written warning and credit for all the questions which I answered, which left me with a B overall. Here is where I am at a crossroads; it was clearly a mistake on my end, and in the written warning, the school did find that it was something that appears unintentional.

Now I know I would probably get a lot of flak for even THINKING of the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE downplaying the IA, maybe some responses are along the lines of "It's plagiarism ur done...kiss medicine goodbye...you deserve it..etc.". Should I downplay (and I'm not saying downplay it so much I am lying, but downplay within reason of what is reported) the plagiarism IA? Why or why not?

Another thing is many people seem to think of having more time between the IA and your app to medical school, but I won't have access to the scholarships and opportunities I have if I drag along my UG or even a bost-bac for another 3-4 years. What are your thoughts and opinions?

I have done a fair bit of digging on SDN, Reddit, AAMC and TMDSAS for any and all knowledge on IA and how they affect and kill applications, and I really haven't seen anyone ever fail to report a serious IA and get found out, and there is always a "Maybe adcom will find out, maybe this will happen, maybe that will happen" and etc.. Has anyone actually not reported it and got caught? Everything I have seen is about what could hypothetically happen with not reporting an IA, never an actual story of someone who had done it.

As far as your last paragraph, stop looking or thinking about not reporting it. The risks are too high. Not sure why you think that since you have not read it here, it doesn't exist? As Goro and others said, just frigging own it and move on. You have one IA and it will not doom your app. Sure, there may be schools that will not look past it, but many others will give you the opportunity.

Failing to disclose it and it being found out will guarantee you being shut out at all schools, dishonesty on you application will not be viewed in any way other than negative and will doom your medical career!

 

[LizzyM]

All it takes is an expose in the media to bust open a situation that could come to the attention of adcoms and raise a question about your application that you'd be asked about point blank and if you lied about it.... Game OVER.

51 West Point cadets caught cheating must repeat a year

West Point said that of the 73 cases investigated by the cadet honor committee, six cadets resigned during the investigation, four were acquitted by a board of their peers, and two cases were dropped due to insufficient evidence.

www.armytimes.com

 

[candbgirl]

honestly that just comes down to choosing letter writers carefully and asking them whether they would write about the incident. In the case I mentioned, all of it stemmed from a single cheating incident on a test with multiple people involved, and all of them got rec letters from that same prof. My friend asked whether her the prof would write about her incident and he said no. The end, never came up, she (and the rest) got accepted and are doing great in Y2.

@LizzyM totally understand your POV, but honestly you can't really expel someone for something they literally can't know and cannot corroborate. As in, if something caused your med school to suspect something was wrong, and they reached out and asked my institution, "Does X candidate have an IA" my institution would reply no if it was a written warning. Unless you yourself disclose everything later for some reason, the med school truly has no way of acting on this. One of my friends actually matriculated within that same university (we have a med/dental/pham school) and even they have no access to this record.

@Battlejkax I can't speak to TMDSAS, but imo, the easiest way forward here is to email your disciplinary action office and ask "was this incident an IA" or "should I report warnings on my med school applications", and make sure to save their response. If they say it doesn't count and later it turns out it does, you can just show their response as justification. This is just what I would do, not going to make a recommendation for you as idk your risk tolerance and ethical standards etc.

I do have to say that I’m aghast at your cavalier attitude and sketchy/bad advice to people on here. You actually are encouraging cheating and disregarding the rules on AMCAS.

 

[Browns99]

honestly that just comes down to choosing letter writers carefully and asking them whether they would write about the incident. In the case I mentioned, all of it stemmed from a single cheating incident on a test with multiple people involved, and all of them got rec letters from that same prof. My friend asked whether her the prof would write about her incident and he said no. The end, never came up, she (and the rest) got accepted and are doing great in Y2.

@LizzyM totally understand your POV, but honestly you can't really expel someone for something they literally can't know and cannot corroborate. As in, if something caused your med school to suspect something was wrong, and they reached out and asked my institution, "Does X candidate have an IA" my institution would reply no if it was a written warning. Unless you yourself disclose everything later for some reason, the med school truly has no way of acting on this. One of my friends actually matriculated within that same university (we have a med/dental/pham school) and even they have no access to this record.

@Battlejkax I can't speak to TMDSAS, but imo, the easiest way forward here is to email your disciplinary action office and ask "was this incident an IA" or "should I report warnings on my med school applications", and make sure to save their response. If they say it doesn't count and later it turns out it does, you can just show their response as justification. This is just what I would do, not going to make a recommendation for you as idk your risk tolerance and ethical standards etc.

OP, please think very hard before you follow the advice of this poster who is basically advocating that you not list it. You probably should be discussing with your school advisers and mentors. Like I previously said, your IA will not disqualify you, but rest assured, a lie on your app certainly will.

 

[allseasons]

OP, please think very hard before you follow the advice of this poster who is basically advocating that you not list it. You probably should be discussing with your school advisers and mentors. Like I previously said, your IA will not disqualify you, but rest assured, a lie on your app certainly will.

that's not even what I'm advocating lol. Literally all I said was "the easiest way forward here is to email your disciplinary action office and ask "was this incident an IA" or "should I report warnings on my med school applications", and make sure to save their response." Obv if they tell you it's an IA and you should report, go report it. My advice here was to make certain you actually need to report it.

I do have to say that I’m aghast at your cavalier attitude and sketchy/bad advice to people on here. You actually are encouraging cheating and disregarding the rules on AMCAS.

Our university outright said, if asked about your disciplinary record, this written warning will not be disclosed. When later asked about how it pertains to AMCAS, our university said even if asked, it would not be reported as an IA. I really don't think it's sketchy/bad advice to say, then, that there was no need to report this academic conduct warning when the university itself would deny that it existed (LOL). I'm surprised this is even that controversial, when the university itself didn't tell them to report. For certain reasons, I have a lot of experience related to conduct violations, so these friends all turned to me to ask if there is any reason whether they should report it and I told them I wouldn't. They ultimately made the decision not to, and are doing great. I'll give you an update if that changes... but it won't.

I'm not saying this is OP's situation. I was sharing a different experience in a different university that COULD be OP's situation, in which case he can sidestep this issue entirely. At any rate, I think I've made my point and I certainly have no regrets (with my advice) nor do I think I'm gonna convince many here of this, so not really gonna bother arguing it anymore.

OP if you're curious about the specifics or want to know how you would go about verifying whether or not your incident is a reported IA, or just in general any advice (as I mentioned, I have a very good understanding of conduct violations) feel free to DM me. I'm probably not going to post anymore about this on this thread. Regardless of what you choose to do, best of luck!

 

[Moko]

Our university outright said, if asked about your disciplinary record, this written warning will not be disclosed. When later asked about how it pertains to AMCAS, our university said even if asked, it would not be reported as an IA. I really don't think it's sketchy/bad advice to say, then, that there was no need to report this academic conduct warning when the university itself would deny that it existed (LOL). I'm surprised this is even that controversial, when the university itself didn't tell them to report.

Per AMCAS:
If you were ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violation, you must answer Yes, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. Furthermore, select Yes even if the action does not appear on, or has been deleted or expunged from, your official transcripts as a consequence of institutional policy or personal petition.

Willfully dishonest students don't suddenly become honest later on when the heat inevitably gets turned on again, especially as the stakes only get higher the further we progress through our medical training and career. Think carefully about the type of behaviors you are actively encouraging from aspiring physicians, and how that may affect your own (or a loved one's) care in the future. Just my thoughts.

 

[allseasons]

Per AMCAS:
If you were ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violation, you must answer Yes, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. Furthermore, select Yes even if the action does not appear on, or has been deleted or expunged from, your official transcripts as a consequence of institutional policy or personal petition.

Willfully dishonest students don't suddenly become honest later on when the heat inevitably gets turned on again, especially as the stakes only get higher the further we progress through our medical training and career. Think carefully about the type of behaviors you are actively encouraging from aspiring physicians, and how that may affect your own (or a loved one's) care in the future. Just my thoughts.

This actually raised a question for me. Who decides whether or not an actions constitutes an institutional action? If something (let's say a warning) were stated by the university to not be an IA (and let's say that statement was provided to you in writing), then is that enough to not include it on AMCAS? As far as I am aware, AMCAS doesn't have criteria defining an IA. Just wondering.

 

[GoSpursGo]

This actually raised a question for me. Who decides whether or not an actions constitutes an institutional action? If something (let's say a warning) were stated by the university to not be an IA (and let's say that statement was provided to you in writing), then is that enough to not include it on AMCAS? As far as I am aware, AMCAS doesn't have criteria defining an IA. Just wondering.

I think that in most cases it's pretty clear--some sort of formal report was generated/some hearing took place, and even if it's eventually expunged you have to report it, and that's that. If a professor decides to "go easy on you" and gives you a 0 on an assignment but it's unclear whether there's any official record or action taken beyond what the individual prof did, or if a student gets a verbal warning for some conduct infraction... I think it's a legitimate question whether or not that has to be reported. Given how stringent the wording is on AMCAS, if there's ever any doubt one likely should report, but I also don't think we should encourage students to report things that are literally nothing.

This is sort of irrelevant because in the OP's case it's cut and dried, he needs to report. However, I did have one clarifying question--you said you had an IA in your 2nd and 3rd semester. Did you do this TWICE? Overall this really does seem pretty minor, but it definitely looks bad if you didn't learn your lesson the first time.

 

[allseasons]

I think that in most cases it's pretty clear--some sort of formal report was generated/some hearing took place, and even if it's eventually expunged you have to report it, and that's that. If a professor decides to "go easy on you" and gives you a 0 on an assignment but it's unclear whether there's any official record or action taken beyond what the individual prof did, or if a student gets a verbal warning for some conduct infraction... I think it's a legitimate question whether or not that has to be reported. Given how stringent the wording is on AMCAS, if there's ever any doubt one likely should report, but I also don't think we should encourage students to report things that are literally nothing.

This is sort of irrelevant because in the OP's case it's cut and dried, he needs to report. However, I did have one clarifying question--you said you had an IA in your 2nd and 3rd semester. Did you do this TWICE? Overall this really does seem pretty minor, but it definitely looks bad if you didn't learn your lesson the first time.

I didn't even catch that lol. It says one IA across two semesters which I don't really understand

 

[Battlejkax]

I didn't even catch that lol. It says one IA across two semesters which I don't really understand

@GoSpursGo I went ahead and edited that, it was one IA that happened during my 2nd semester

 

[Battlejkax]

OP, please think very hard before you follow the advice of this poster who is basically advocating that you not list it. You probably should be discussing with your school advisers and mentors. Like I previously said, your IA will not disqualify you, but rest assured, a lie on your app certainly will.

Oddly, my pre-med advisor actually advised me NOT to list it since it is not on my transcript, and after more digging I found that this warning was in my disciplinary record (separate from transcript) and my advisor said to "prepare to explain it" as he was going to confirm whether or not to list it with some faculty from a med school I was interested in. If my advisor does say not to list it, that would defiantly be the icing on the wtfdoido cake, but will keep up on it.

 

[allseasons]

I think that in most cases it's pretty clear--some sort of formal report was generated/some hearing took place, and even if it's eventually expunged you have to report it, and that's that. If a professor decides to "go easy on you" and gives you a 0 on an assignment but it's unclear whether there's any official record or action taken beyond what the individual prof did, or if a student gets a verbal warning for some conduct infraction... I think it's a legitimate question whether or not that has to be reported. Given how stringent the wording is on AMCAS, if there's ever any doubt one likely should report, but I also don't think we should encourage students to report things that are literally nothing.

This is sort of irrelevant because in the OP's case it's cut and dried, he needs to report. However, I did have one clarifying question--you said you had an IA in your 2nd and 3rd semester. Did you do this TWICE? Overall this really does seem pretty minor, but it definitely looks bad if you didn't learn your lesson the first time.

haha, that happened to one of my friends too. Received a 0 on an exam for plagiarizing the entire essay (literally all of it). Prof just gave her a 0 (it was a gen ed) and a written warning over email directly from the prof (so didn't make it onto any university-level disciplinary record), and since the lowest score was dropped at the end, the 0 was dropped and she got an A. Didn't report, accepted. In this case, neither of us even considered the possibility of it being an IA, but maybe that technically counts? lol.

 

[Battlejkax]

haha, that happened to one of my friends too. Received a 0 on an exam for plagiarizing the entire essay (literally all of it). Prof just gave her a 0 (it was a gen ed, no one really cared) and a written warning over email directly from the prof (so didn't make it onto any university-level disciplinary record), and since the lowest score was dropped at the end, the 0 was dropped and she got an A. Didn't report, accepted. In this case, neither of us even considered the possibility of it being an IA, but maybe that technically counts? lol.

I wouldn't consider that specific one IA, but I sadly didn't have the opportunity to hash it out with my professor, and it went straight to the conduct office of my university.

 

[LizzyM]

There are times when a faculty member will disregard university policies that require reporting misconduct to the Dean's office and just deal with it privately, in the office, particularly if it is not a particularly serious offence. The expectation is that students will be "scared straight" or informed that their honest mistake could be misconstrued as cheating and that they should be more careful in the future. If it never goes beyond the faculty member and student then it can be said that the institution (college, university) did not take an action. Case closed, no IA. If the institutional official (dean, etc) sends you a message requiring you to answer an accusation of misconduct, you have a potential IA that needs to be explained. If you write a coherent explanation, take responsibility for the action, and explain how you have changed your behavior as a result of this incident, it may not keep you out of med school. Being caught in a lie almost certainly will because there really is zero tolerance for lying. Lying can kill patients.

 

[Browns99]

Oddly, my pre-med advisor actually advised me NOT to list it since it is not on my transcript, and after more digging I found that this warning was in my disciplinary record (separate from transcript) and my advisor said to "prepare to explain it" as he was going to confirm whether or not to list it with some faculty from a med school I was interested in. If my advisor does say not to list it, that would defiantly be the icing on the wtfdoido cake, but will keep up on it.

battlejkax, I see you are looking for validation in not listing it, you know the rules, if you want to take a chance and roll the dice, then go ahead. You say your adviser said not to list it because it is not on my transcript, did you tell that to him/her and then you note that after some digging, it is on your record.....what more do you need now??? I think this has been discussed enough, time to move on.

 

[allseasons]

battlejkax, I see you are looking for validation in not listing it, you know the rules, if you want to take a chance and roll the dice, then go ahead. You say your adviser said not to list it because it is not on my transcript, did you tell that to him/her and then you note that after some digging, it is on your record.....what more do you need now??? I think this has been discussed enough, time to move on.

On the record doesn't always mean IA. At our institution it certainly doesn't. Idk why you all oppose OP following this to the end and making sure he actually has to report it, as per his university's standards and protocols.

This isn't even unique to my institution. I googled it, and here's a similar case:


The Vice President of student conduct herself told this person his academic warning for cheating did not need to be reported despite it being on record.

What makes warnings fundamentally different from the indisputable "institutional actions" (probation/suspension/expulsion) is they cannot be fought, appealed, disproven, or dismissed (in some universities including mine). Even if they're completely inaccurate. No one here is telling OP just lie and hope for the best.

 

[Browns99]

On the record doesn't always mean IA. At our institution it certainly doesn't. Idk why you all oppose OP following this to the end and making sure he actually has to report it, as per his university's standards and protocols.

This isn't even unique to my institution. I googled it, and here's a similar case:


The Vice President of student conduct herself told this person his academic warning for cheating did not need to be reported despite it being on record.

What makes warnings fundamentally different from the indisputable "institutional actions" (probation/suspension/expulsion) is they cannot be fought, appealed, disproven, or dismissed (in some universities including mine). Even if they're completely inaccurate. No one here is telling OP just lie and hope for the best.

You are wrong....For your reference and the OP, see below and note the bolded section about it not mattering whether it is on the transcript or not. Enough said.

Either way, the OP has to make the decision they are most comfortable with. He/she now knows the rules and what is in his/her best interest when they apply. Just as a reminder, some of those that posted here are adcoms and have said that this is not a major red flag that will crush your dreams of being a doctor, just needs to be explained.

Best of luck to the OP and I hope it all works out for you.

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information​

Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition

 

[allseasons]

You are wrong....For your reference and the OP, see below and note the bolded section about it not mattering whether it is on the transcript or not. Enough said.

Either way, the OP has to make the decision they are most comfortable with. He/she now knows the rules and what is in his/her best interest when they apply. Just as a reminder, some of those that posted here are adcoms and have said that this is not a major red flag that will crush your dreams of being a doctor, just needs to be explained.

Best of luck to the OP and I hope it all works out for you.

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information​

Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition

"Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action"
Some universities don't consider warnings IAs, even if they are on the record. If the university itself tells you "no this is not an IA, and does not need to be reported" then why on earth would you proceed with reporting anyway?? AMCAS never states "a warning is an IA" or lays out definitions of exactly what constitutes an IA, so that is the university's decision (after all, the university is the one taking the action).

idk why you added the bit about "You are wrong....For your reference and the OP, see below and note the bolded section about it not mattering whether it is on the transcript or not." I never mentioned anything about the transcript. In fact, I specifically stated things can be on record (outside of a transcript) and still not be IAs. Your reason for me being wrong has nothing to do with what I said.

Good lord. I was suspended in high school. College applications asked "were you ever suspended?" I talked to my counseling office, and they told me that first time suspension is internally filed as a detention in our school, and detentions are not reported (nor asked about in the app). Therefore, I put no on my application, as the school made the decision to mark my disciplinary action as a detention. Thankfully, the people on College Confidential were far more reasonable about this kind of issue, and gave me the correct advice.

Bottom line- let your institution decide, not people online. I'm the only one that's not saying "report" or "don't report" here. My advice has solely been, listen to your institution, and follow their recommendations. To do otherwise seems absurd. I'm honestly surprised this advice is in any way unpopular, but oh well.

 

[candbgirl]

that's not even what I'm advocating lol. Literally all I said was "the easiest way forward here is to email your disciplinary action office and ask "was this incident an IA" or "should I report warnings on my med school applications", and make sure to save their response." Obv if they tell you it's an IA and you should report, go report it. My advice here was to make certain you actually need to report it.


Our university outright said, if asked about your disciplinary record, this written warning will not be disclosed. When later asked about how it pertains to AMCAS, our university said even if asked, it would not be reported as an IA. I really don't think it's sketchy/bad advice to say, then, that there was no need to report this academic conduct warning when the university itself would deny that it existed (LOL). I'm surprised this is even that controversial, when the university itself didn't tell them to report. For certain reasons, I have a lot of experience related to conduct violations, so these friends all turned to me to ask if there is any reason whether they should report it and I told them I wouldn't. They ultimately made the decision not to, and are doing great. I'll give you an update if that changes... but it won't.

I'm not saying this is OP's situation. I was sharing a different experience in a different university that COULD be OP's situation, in which case he can sidestep this issue entirely. At any rate, I think I've made my point and I certainly have no regrets (with my advice) nor do I think I'm gonna convince many here of this, so not really gonna bother arguing it anymore.

OP if you're curious about the specifics or want to know how you would go about verifying whether or not your incident is a reported IA, or just in general any advice (as I mentioned, I have a very good understanding of conduct violations) feel free to DM me. I'm probably not going to post anymore about this on this thread. Regardless of what you choose to do, best of luck!

Since you said this you have posted at least 4 more times continuing to encourage the OP to lie/be reckless on his Med school application. These replies are here for years and some person will come along in 5-10 and see your very strong replies and take it as truth. Please be careful. It doesn’t matter that you have many friends that cheated and didn’t get caught, you advice is bad.

 

[allseasons]

Since you said this you have posted at least 4 more times continuing to encourage the OP to lie/be reckless on his Med school application. These replies are here for years and some person will come along in 5-10 and see your very strong replies and take it as truth. Please be careful. It doesn’t matter that you have many friends that cheated and didn’t get caught, you advice is bad.

completely disagree. Honestly, I was thinking this same rationale about "other people seeing this" and that is specifically why I post. Hopefully this encourages more people to look into the process so that they don't go around reporting things they don't need to, especially if their university itself tells them not to and that they don't have an IA. If anyone wants to talk to me about this ever (and I really do know a lot about the conduct process) feel free to PM me.

University: "We will not disclose this offense at all, and we don't consider it an IA" (that reddit post and my friends)
You guys: "It is an IA. How dare you imply otherwise?"

I'm laughing hahaha

 

[Browns99]

"Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action"
Some universities don't consider warnings IAs, even if they are on the record. If the university itself tells you "no this is not an IA, and does not need to be reported" then why on earth would you proceed with reporting anyway?? AMCAS never states "a warning is an IA" or lays out definitions of exactly what constitutes an IA, so that is the university's decision (after all, the university is the one taking the action).

idk why you added the bit about "You are wrong....For your reference and the OP, see below and note the bolded section about it not mattering whether it is on the transcript or not." I never mentioned anything about the transcript. In fact, I specifically stated things can be on record (outside of a transcript) and still not be IAs. Your reason for me being wrong has nothing to do with what I said.

Good lord. I was suspended in high school. College applications asked "were you ever suspended?" I talked to my counseling office, and they told me that first time suspension is internally filed as a detention in our school, and detentions are not reported (nor asked about in the app). Therefore, I put no on my application, as the school made the decision to mark my disciplinary action as a detention. Thankfully, the people on College Confidential were far more reasonable about this kind of issue, and gave me the correct advice.

Bottom line- let your institution decide, not people online. I'm the only one that's not saying "report" or "don't report" here. My advice has solely been, listen to your institution, and follow their recommendations. To do otherwise seems absurd. I'm honestly surprised this advice is in any way unpopular, but oh well.

"Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action"
Some universities don't consider warnings IAs, even if they are on the record. If the university itself tells you "no this is not an IA, and does not need to be reported" then why on earth would you proceed with reporting anyway?? AMCAS never states "a warning is an IA" or lays out definitions of exactly what constitutes an IA, so that is the university's decision (after all, the university is the one taking the action).

idk why you added the bit about "You are wrong....For your reference and the OP, see below and note the bolded section about it not mattering whether it is on the transcript or not." I never mentioned anything about the transcript. In fact, I specifically stated things can be on record (outside of a transcript) and still not be IAs. Your reason for me being wrong has nothing to do with what I said.

Good lord. I was suspended in high school. College applications asked "were you ever suspended?" I talked to my counseling office, and they told me that first time suspension is internally filed as a detention in our school, and detentions are not reported (nor asked about in the app). Therefore, I put no on my application, as the school made the decision to mark my disciplinary action as a detention. Thankfully, the people on College Confidential were far more reasonable about this kind of issue, and gave me the correct advice.

Bottom line- let your institution decide, not people online. I'm the only one that's not saying "report" or "don't report" here. My advice has solely been, listen to your institution, and follow their recommendations. To do otherwise seems absurd. I'm honestly surprised this advice is in any way unpopular, but oh well.

You are missing the point completely.."let your institution decide", decide what, the question is all about honesty and integrity, not whether you can beat the system by believing the school may not report it. What if your school said, "don't worry, we won't report it and it somehow made its way into the records sent to the medical schools that you applied, since you decided not to mention it, game over!

Either way, this will be my last post on the subject with respect to responses to you.

 

[Battlejkax]

battlejkax, I see you are looking for validation in not listing it, you know the rules, if you want to take a chance and roll the dice, then go ahead. You say your adviser said not to list it because it is not on my transcript, did you tell that to him/her and then you note that after some digging, it is on your record.....what more do you need now??? I think this has been discussed enough, time to move on.

I am absolutely not looking for validation. I am asking every question and learning as much as I can about it, because to be completely honest, I don't know everything (SHOCKER!!!), so asking questions and absorbing as much info as I can from many different viewpoints isn't a negative. Also, my pre-med advisor knows that disciplinary record and transcript are different things, though he has never dealt with a warning and even he is not sure if a warning is an IA by my universities standard. As many people said, there is no guideline for what an IA is and really depends on the university. At the end of the day, asking the questions and reading all the responses defiantly will not hurt.

 

[allseasons]

You are missing the point completely.."let your institution decide", decide what, the question is all about honesty and integrity, not whether you can beat the system by believing the school may not report it. What if your school said, "don't worry, we won't report it and it somehow made its way into the records sent to the medical schools that you applied, since you decided not to mention it, game over!

Either way, this will be my last post on the subject with respect to responses to you.

Your hypothetical is absurd. Schools don't play games with their own internal policies. They follow the standards they have set.

I have some contacts in my university's conduct board, so I reached out to asked for the specific policy governing warnings and what is reported to medical schools:

This is the exact policy:
"[My university] dictates the release of an entire disciplinary record only when it includes sanctions greater than a warning. As such, a disciplinary record does not exist for the person in question (a person with only a warning). All warnings are expunged upon graduation."

I am absolutely not looking for validation. I am asking every question and learning as much as I can about it, because to be completely honest, I don't know everything (SHOCKER!!!), so asking questions and absorbing as much info as I can from many different viewpoints isn't a negative. Also, my pre-med advisor knows that disciplinary record and transcript are different things, though he has never dealt with a warning and even he is not sure if a warning is an IA by my universities standard. As many people said, there is no guideline for what an IA is and really depends on the university. At the end of the day, asking the questions and reading all the responses defiantly will not hurt.

Definitely the right approach. I suggest you ask your university for it's specific policy governing warnings (you're probably already doing that). If it helps, I've done some digging because of just how ferociously others on this thread are insisting on reporting. Every single university I've looked into has similar policies governing warnings, so I think it's quite likely you are fine regardless of how you choose to proceed. Best of luck to you!

 

[LizzyM]

Your hypothetical is absurd. Schools don't play games with their own internal policies. They follow the standards they have set.

I have some contacts in my university's conduct board, so I reached out to asked for the specific policy governing warnings and what is reported to medical schools:

This is the exact policy:
"[My university] dictates the release of an entire disciplinary record only when it includes sanctions greater than a warning. As such, a disciplinary record does not exist for the person in question (a person with only a warning). All warnings are expunged upon graduation."


Definitely the right approach. I suggest you ask your university for it's specific policy governing warnings (you're probably already doing that). If it helps, I've done some digging because of just how ferociously others on this thread are insisting on reporting. Every single university I've looked into has similar policies governing warnings, so I think it's quite likely you are fine regardless of how you choose to proceed. Best of luck to you!

If an institution issues a warning the fact is that the institution took action and that action was a warning. That is not even a slap on the wrist, it is a written warning and there is a record of it (in case it happens again, in which case there is documentation that it happened before and the punishment will be more harsh because it is a second offense).

Reporting a warning is the honest thing to do when you are asked if you have been the subject of an institutional action. It is not likely to preclude admission to medical school but demonstrates your integrity.

If you have been the subject of a warning, ask yourself, "Do I have integrity?"