Intelligent life in the Universe?

[searun]

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I doubt that we are unique. I was just reading an article on the internet, about a planet that has been discovered that has water, lots of water. I suspect that there is an abundance of intelligent life in the universe. I do not think that we are alone. Whether we will ever be able to communicate with one another, I do not know, but it does not make sense that we are unique and alone. I have no expertise in this area, none whatsoever, but I think that there is intelligent life throughout the universe. Do you think other civilizations have doctors?

 

[chman]

I doubt that we are unique. I was just reading an article on the internet, about a planet that has been discovered that has water, lots of water. I suspect that there is an abundance of intelligent life in the universe. I do not think that we are alone. Whether we will ever be able to communicate with one another, I do not know, but it does not make sense that we are unique and alone. I have no expertise in this area, none whatsoever, but I think that there is intelligent life throughout the universe. Do you think other civilizations have doctors?

I think there is. I believe that scientist say that the universe is still expanding. Not to mention, we have no idea how big it is. Our galaxy is just one grain of sand in the sand box. There is bound to be other life out there.

One thing is for sure. If another life form were to contact us somehow they are a heck of a lot smarter than us.

EDIT: If they are intelligent then I am sure they would have some form of doctors.

 

[joshinjosh]

last time i heard, water ≠ life

 

[Omar Gooding]

I agree. The universe is incomprehensibly massive, I just can't believe that there isn't hundreds of others planets that harbor the environment of earth, and thus can sustain intelligent life.

 

[Zona Pellucida]

I believe there is life on other planets. How many times throughout history have humans thought we were special and unique, yet we really are not. (Copernicus, Darwin, Freud, etc).

I don't believe we have been "visited", however.

 

[Omar Gooding]

last time i heard, water ≠ life

Um actually I think there is a pretty significant correlation. Maybe not intelligent life, but even the smallest microorganisms are considered living.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I think there is. I believe that scientist say that the universe is still expanding.

EDIT: If they are intelligent then I am sure they would have some form of doctors.

Expanding universe doesn't mean that new "stuff" gets added, so it's kind of irrelevant here.

re your edit, why are you sure? Maybe they don't get sick. Maybe they don't care if they get sick.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Yeah...that would make humans the only intelligent life on the planet. I think quite a few species might have something to say about that.

 

[chman]

Expanding universe doesn't mean that new "stuff" gets added, so it's kind of irrelevant here.

re your edit, why are you sure? Maybe they don't get sick. Maybe they don't care if they get sick.

I think it is relevant. It shows that the universe is not stagnant, so therefor things could be added, such as life. But to your point, even if it was not expanding it is bigger than we could ever comprehend, so I guess it does not matter.

To you second point, I don't know. I guess since we are talking about something that nobody knows for sure, we could all make up different variables.

 

[joshinjosh]

Um actually I think there is a pretty significant correlation. Maybe not intelligent life, but even the smallest microorganisms are considered living.

Yes unidirectional correlation. If there is any kind of life, there should be water. But it's not true to say if there's water there's life.

Simply from the shear size of the universe, there's good likelihood there is "unintellegent" life. Do I think there's intellegent life? probably not. Will we ever know for sure? no.

 

[Cogito ergo es]

I doubt that we are unique. I was just reading an article on the internet, about a planet that has been discovered that has water, lots of water. I suspect that there is an abundance of intelligent life in the universe. I do not think that we are alone. Whether we will ever be able to communicate with one another, I do not know, but it does not make sense that we are unique and alone. I have no expertise in this area, none whatsoever, but I think that there is intelligent life throughout the universe. Do you think other civilizations have doctors?

[In bold]
It's a statistical near-certainty for everyone except the deeply religious.

I wonder if those otherworlders are wondering about us as well. :O

 

[Omar Gooding]

Yes unidirectional correlation. If there is any kind of life, there should be water. But it's not true to say if there's water there's life.

Simply from the shear size of the universe, there's good likelihood there is "unintellegent" life. Do I think there's intellegent life? probably not. Will we ever know for sure? no.

It's been shown that life likely begins in water, so to have water is to have the first step in the process. How can you say there probably isn't intelligent life? I'd say its statistically probable that there is intelligent life out there.

 

[Alwaysbehopeful]

I doubt that we are unique. I was just reading an article on the internet, about a planet that has been discovered that has water, lots of water. I suspect that there is an abundance of intelligent life in the universe. I do not think that we are alone. Whether we will ever be able to communicate with one another, I do not know, but it does not make sense that we are unique and alone. I have no expertise in this area, none whatsoever, but I think that there is intelligent life throughout the universe. Do you think other civilizations have doctors?

That's like old news...whats really cool about that planet is that at some depth, the water is compressed so much due to gravity that you can theoretically walk on it.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

[In bold]
It's a statistical near-certainty for everyone except the deeply religious.

I wonder if those otherworlders are wondering about us as well. :O

It's a matter of great debate, especially if the question is phrased "other intelligent life in the universe NOW".

 

[ucsbgaucho]

Will we ever know for sure? no.

What if we actually find it? hahaha

The ability to maintain water on a planet's surface means that the planet most likely fits all of the criteria to sustain life. There are exceptions like Titan where there's evidence of water under ice oceans that come from geothermal energy melting the ice.

"There are 400 billion stars out there in our galaxy alone. Now if only one out of a million of those stars had planets. Alright? And if just one out of a million of those had life. And if just one out of a million of those had intelligent life…there would be literally millions of civilizations out there."

 

[chman]

While we are on the subject of astrophysics, have you guys seen this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077374/

Pretty crazy stuff.

 

[apumic]

It's been shown that life likely begins in water, so to have water is to have the first step in the process. How can you say there probably isn't intelligent life? I'd say its statistically probable that there is intelligent life out there.

Remember, though, that just because the necessary conditions are there doesn't mean it will occur. Biochemical processes that have to occur to form a single cell require not only just the right environmental conditions but very specific substances in very specific concentrations and so forth. The chances of precellular life forming at any given location are astronomically small, even with perfect conditions. While I do not disagree it is possible that there may be life on this planet (and probably that there is life elsewhere in the universe), I would not say it is statistically probable that that specific planet has life on it as the statistical chance for the spontaneous formation of life via the biochemical processes we now of is extraordinarily small.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

It's been shown that life likely begins in water, so to have water is to have the first step in the process. How can you say there probably isn't intelligent life? I'd say its statistically probable that there is intelligent life out there.

If by intelligent life we mean human-level intelligence, then earth has had intelligent life for about 200,000 years. It has had liquid water for 4.4 billion years, or 22,000 times longer than it has had intelligent life. Aliens observing the earth over its lifetime who reached the same conclusion as you would have been wrong 99.99945% of the time.

 

[chman]

If by intelligent life we mean human-level intelligence, then earth has had intelligent life for about 200,000 years. It has had liquid water for 4.4 billion years, or 22,000 times longer than it has had intelligent life. Aliens observing the earth over its lifetime who reached the same conclusion as you would have been wrong 99.99945% of the time.

But along your line of thinking, who knows if intelligent life on another planet, in a galaxy far far away, even need water to live. They may just need some other chemical substance.

 

[Moonglow]

Alien "life" is a fiction - a brief, but complete understanding of biological evolution will answer why.

 

[rockymhs]

I doubt that there are other living species out there in the universe.

Miniscule probability of another earth-like planet with living organism existing in the universe is quite low in my opinion.

Just think of how life started. There is no answer to it.

A small RNA like molecule starts forming and then starts to self-replicate and then form corresponding DNA strands and then somehow use the DNA to synthesize protein?

I mean how is that possible? It contradicts everything that we learned about in our biology and biochem classes.

Tell me how this entire magical process is possible given its complexity and intricacy involved.

It's like creating something out of nothing.

Even if we assume that all this occured naturally by chance, the probability of this happening in another place is so miniscule, that it is almost impossible for other living species to exist in the universe full of other earth-like planets.

 

[PanicAttack]

Alien "life" is a fiction - a brief, but complete understanding of biological evolution will answer why.

Can you expand on that?

 

[guyski79]

.

 

[chman]

.

 

[Zona Pellucida]

I doubt that there are other living species out there in the universe.

The mere probability of another earth-like planet with living organism is quite low.

Just think of how life started. There is no answer to it.

A small RNA like molecule starts forming and then replicating and then form corresponding DNA and then somehow use DNA to make protein?

Tell me how that entire process is even possible to occur from scratch.

It's like creating something out of nothing.

Even if we assume that all this occured naturally by chance, the miniscule probability of this happening is quite low even when we consider the vast amount of earth-like planets out in the universe.

Miller-Urey Experiment ... just need some atmospheric gases and some sort of electrical spark = Amino Acids

 

[strummin]

I doubt that there are other living species out there in the universe.

The mere probability of another earth-like planet with living organism is quite low.

Just think of how life started. There is no answer to it.

A small RNA like molecule starts forming and then replicating and then form corresponding DNA and then somehow use DNA to make protein?

Tell me how that entire process is even possible to occur from scratch.

It's like creating something out of nothing.

Even if we assume that all this occured naturally by chance, the miniscule probability of this happening is quite low even when we consider the vast amount of earth-like planets out in the universe.

Are you advocating intelligent design, or creationism?

 

[rockymhs]

Miller-Urey Experiment ... just need some atmospheric gases and some sort of electrical spark = Amino Acids

Yes, amino acids are possible to create from scratch. However, how do you incorporate DNA and RNA into creating protein?

The translational mechanism itself involves a form of enzyme that was created from DNA template itself.

Also, how did the plasma membrane came about?

There are natural molecules that can form plasma membrane-like structure, but to have DNA template that allows this to happen is a completely different story since it is this DNA template that allows enzymes to synthesize the plasma membrane.

If plasma membrane forming molecules appeared out of nowhere, how did DNA mutate itself magically so that this plama membrane could start forming by the cell?

Evolution makes sence, but the pure complexity is so huge that time and chance does not stand much chance in explaining the mechanism IMHO.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Miller-Urey Experiment ... just need some atmospheric gases and some sort of electrical spark = Amino Acids

Not even electricity, just energy. Hasn't the most recent theory of life shifted more towards hydrothermal vents being the energy source? It's been awhile since I've heard about any of this, so correct me if I'm off base.

Yes, amino acids are possible to create from scratch. However, how do you incorporate DNA and RNA into creating protein?

The translational mechanism itself involves a form of enzyme that was created from DNA template itself.

Some RNA can self-replicate.

Also, how did the plasma membrane came about?

Any highly polar molecule will form a bilayer when in solution (though it may precipitate, I guess).

 

[rockymhs]

Are you advocating intelligent design, or creationism?

Not really, I am just curious of how things came about.

In school you learn about complex mechanisms involved in DNA -> RNA -> protein translational mechanism, but nobody has the answer to how such process came about.

Just listening to professors saying that somehow by chance this complex mechanism came about is not enough to convince me.

Also, going into intelligent design just because there is no answer isn't a great choice since there is no profound scientific evidence to support such idea in the first place.

 

[Zona Pellucida]

Yes, amino acids are possible to create from scratch. However, how do you incorporate DNA and RNA into creating protein?

The translational mechanism itself involves a form of enzyme that was created from DNA template itself.

Also, how did the plasma membrane came about?

There are natural molecules that can form plasma membrane-like structure, but to have DNA template that allows this happen is a completely different story since it is this DNA template that allows enzymes to synthesize the plasma membrane.

To put it simply, I don't know.

EDIT: But apparently Milkman does! 😛

I am confident that there is some sort of scientific explanation that will eventual come about that will answer this. A 'creator' should never be a satisfying answer as it never has been in the past. The Greeks didn't understand seasons... and simply threw them over to the gods. Now we have very simplistic explanations for why we have seasons that are taught in elementary schools. Hopefully we get this answer... and in my lifetime please! 👍 kthxbye.

 

[alexlex143]

I think, without a doubt, that there is intelligent life in the universe. There are an infinite number of possibilities in which life can exist. There are trillions upon trillions of stars and solar systems that it is very well possible a planet or some other terrestrial system sustains life. The universe is a chasm of mystery and it may be impossible for us to ever know for sure, given the extent of our own intelligence and technology, but I think there are just sooo many chances for life to exist that it is stupid to say that it cannot.

 

[strummin]

Not really, I am just curious of how things came about.

In school you learn about complex mechanisms involved in DNA -> RNA -> protein translational mechanism, but nobody has the answer to how such process came about.

Just listening to professors saying that somehow by chance this complex mechanism came about is not enough to convince me.

Well, it's good that you're curious. And not easy to convince. A true scientist is never satisfied until he/she figures something out, or can make a logical explanation about something.

I'm sure evolutionary biologists among others have answers to many of your questions - do some googling, I guess. Miller-Urey did their experiment decades ago, I am sure the field is much more advanced today. I personally don't have an explanation for your questions because I'm not well-versed in these subjects, but I will say something.. yes, it is DNA-->RNA-->proteins today, but that's not necessarily how it all started. For example, I have heard of PNA (peptide nucleic acid), which some scientists believe could have been the earliest form of genetic material.

 

[apumic]

To put it simply, I don't know.

EDIT: But apparently Milkman does! 😛

I am confident that there is some sort of scientific explanation that will eventual come about that will answer this. A 'creator' should never be a satisfying answer as it never has been in the past. The Greeks didn't understand seasons... and simply threw them over to the gods. Now we have very simplistic explanations for why we have seasons that are taught in elementary schools. Hopefully we get this answer... and in my lifetime please! 👍 kthxbye.

Well... not unless you want to live longer, that is. Seeing as there appear to be some health benefits to religiosity/spirituality.... Not saying we should just jump to it academically, of course, but when considering health form a holistic perspective, it might make sense to consider religious explanations on a personal level.

I, too, however, would be interested in fully understanding the mechanisms of precellular life. It is a fascinating area of ongoing research, to say the least.

 

[redsquareblack]

last time i heard, water ≠ life

Especially when that water is over 400 degrees C.

 

[alexlex143]

While we are on the subject of astrophysics, have you guys seen this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077374/

Pretty crazy stuff.

I remember reading about the big bang machine not too long ago. I did not know it was already experimenting. That's pretty cool. Maybe we'll finally get some answers! After all, the big bang theory is particularly accurate (IMO) in postulating exactly how everything began. It's just those few seconds afterwards that we haven't been able to explain.

 

[Iso4ane]

Miller-Urey Experiment ... just need some atmospheric gases and some sort of electrical spark = Amino Acids

I have only a few problems...

The amino acids made were a racemic mixture, and very few non-biological procedures (none which are really perfect) can help make or purify one steroisomer from the other.

Then there is the whole phosphate for the backbone...

Plus, the experiments heavily rely on assumptions about the composition of Earth Early atmosphere, change it up a little bit and nothing happens.

And then amino acids coming together to form peptides...
Lipids coming together to for membranes...
And all other things coming together to create life...
If life as we know it was created by chance, then we beat the most insurmountable odds.

Plus if you think about it, if you ask any computer programmer that write codes for viruses and or for work on A.I., one important aspect would be for the program to adapt and learn, or evolve over time...
If we were created by a intelligent being far smarter and greater than us, would you think he/she/they would wants us to adapt and evolve.

sorry about the ranting but just some though I had.

 

[bamtuba]

I have found it very interesting that this question, that of how life came about and if other life elsewhere exists, has made otherwise rational "scientific people" draw some pretty interesting conclusions.

Crick, for instance, suggested that life could have been spread about the universe by some other intelligent life. And where did that life come from? Who knows. He didn't say as far as I know.

Urey-Miller show that building blocks can form (not proteins or other functional molecules mind you) and the whole of science teaching jumps on board and states "A-ha! Life CAN form on its own."

In no other part of discovery or exploration will scientists ever put up with such a lack of evidence to claim we are well on our way to "understanding" a process so important as this.

But anyone suggesting otherwise is labeled "too religious" or just a plain "nut-job."

Interesting.

Well, I don't believe there is other life in the universe, and I do believe that life was created by a Creator.

Life just doesn't happen. If it did I'm sure we would (or will, if I'm wrong) hear all about it in the media as the recipients of the Nobel for "creating life" come forward to take their reward. There is no such thing as a "simple cell" and I've personally never understood how such a complex language as found in the genetic code or the INCREDIBLE specificity of protein folding, etc. can be ignored and argued as something that can occur "under the right conditions given enough time."

It wouldn't fly for any other part of science, why this?

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah...that would make humans the only intelligent life on the planet. I think quite a few species might have something to say about that.

I just thought this statement was ironic.

"intelligent life"....other species on earth....."say about it"....
How many other species on earth have anything to "say"?
Sorry, just thought it was comical the way it was worded.

Carry on...

 

[alexlex143]

Especially when that water is over 400 degrees C.

Water at 400 degrees would be in its gaseous state though. The theories of life relative to water focus on water in its liquid state. Even if it is near boiling, it is possible that life may exist. For instance, there are theories postulating that life may exist on Saturn's moon Titan, near the geysers at the bottom of its bodies of water, where the water can reach very hot temperatures.

 

[Moonglow]

..., and I do believe that life was created by a Creator.

Define "Creator", please.

 

[Zona Pellucida]

Well... not unless you want to live longer, that is. Seeing as there appear to be some health benefits to religiosity/spirituality.... Not saying we should just jump to it academically, of course, but when considering health form a holistic perspective, it might make sense to consider religious explanations on a personal level.

I, too, however, would be interested in fully understanding the mechanisms of precellular life. It is a fascinating area of ongoing research, to say the least.

I'll take the risk of dying earlier by not being a believer ... anyways... how would that work... "Oh no I want to live longer so I might as well MAKE myself believe...". Isn't that impossible?

I did read an interesting argument in 'The God Delusion' about how the 'religious gene' may have been positively selected for throughout evolution (for moral/enthusiasm boosts during tribal wars or something along those lines)

 

[redsquareblack]

I have only a few problems...

The amino acids made were a racemic mixture, and very few non-biological procedures (none which are really perfect) can help make or purify one steroisomer from the other.

This isn't a problem. In fact, it's wonderful, because in proposing a promising answer to an interesting question, a new, equally-interesting question emerges! That's the wonderful thing about science: There are always questions.

Just because we haven't answered that question yet is no reason to chuck the entire line of thought.

Then there is the whole phosphate for the backbone...

Think you had a brain fart there. This isn't an issue for amino acids, peptides, and proteins.

Plus, the experiments heavily rely on assumptions about the composition of Earth Early atmosphere, change it up a little bit and nothing happens.

Subsequent trials utilizing different conditions have succeeded in producing other organic molecules, including amino acids.

And then amino acids coming together to form peptides...
Lipids coming together to for membranes...
And all other things coming together to create life...
If life as we know it was created by chance, then we beat the most insurmountable odds.

Yes, but only a little bit at a time. I know it seems like a huge leap to go from nothing to people, and practically speaking, the chances of it just happening spontaneously are effectively zero. But given enough time, and enough intervening steps that are only modestly unlikely, and you set the stage for a progression of developments that has led to life as we know it on Earth.

You should read Dawkins' Climbing Mount Improbable for a far more articulate treatment of the idea.

Plus if you think about it, if you ask any computer programmer that write codes for viruses and or for work on A.I., one important aspect would be for the program to adapt and learn, or evolve over time...
If we were created by a intelligent being far smarter and greater than us, would you think he/she/they would wants us to adapt and evolve.

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

Also, minor gripe, but Zona, the Urey-Miller experiment didn't produce amino acids. It was in later trials that amino acids were identified as products. The U-M experiment produced urea. Sorry, that was Woeller. Much of my high school biology is jumbled around up here in my brain-box.

 

[joshinjosh]

It's been shown that life likely begins in water, so to have water is to have the first step in the process. How can you say there probably isn't intelligent life? I'd say its statistically probable that there is intelligent life out there.

uh NO.... no scientific experiement has shown s**t about how life can begin in water de novo, if you can cite me a paper on that please because that will settle a lot of debate out there.

Youre not totally wrong... It's evolution that points to the idea that life started in the water (a theory/speculation), but science (chemistry) has shown the building blocks of life can't spontaneously form in water and the probability/termodynamics of that is basically impossible.

But consider that the universe is essentially immense, basically infinity, and the chances of spontaneous life are basically zero. I'm saying there probalby life somewhere out there, saying there's intelligent life is a bit of a stretch imo.

What if we actually find it? hahaha

[/B]

Dude, do some research...Uh...I consider myself an optimistic person, but when chances are probably much less than the mathmetically probably of never (i can't find the number), we just won't find life. we can't transmit information fast enough and enough of it to/from galaxies. The closest galaxy is like tens of thousands of light years away. be real. Even,if there was millions of planets with intelligent life forms out there, we will more likely never know.

 

[redsquareblack]

Water at 400 degrees would be in its gaseous state though. The theories of life relative to water focus on water in its liquid state. Even if it is near boiling, it is possible that life may exist. For instance, there are theories postulating that life may exist on Saturn's moon Titan, near the geysers at the bottom of its bodies of water, where the water can reach very hot temperatures.

Um... I think you're missing a variable that determines the state of water at a given temperature.

The pressure on this newly discovered planet is sufficiently high that it is quite happily liquid at 400 C. Considering its period is 1.5 days, it's pretty damn close to its star.

 

[joshinjosh]

Miller-Urey Experiment ... just need some atmospheric gases and some sort of electrical spark = Amino Acids

don't forget to mention a racemic mixture....

life is ordered, and most likely formed at the nucleic acid level, not peptide

 

[Procyon]

Part of me secretly aspires to be a xenobiologist, which is part of the reason why I want to major in biology now. <_<; *Has enjoyed too much sci-fi crap since he was a child*

Especially when that water is over 400 degrees C.

Even on Earth, extremophiles aren't unheard of. I don't think we've found hyperthermophiles in conditions that hot, but it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to imagine...

But lack of water also doesn't have to mean lack of life either, imo. I say screw these "Goldilocks zone" theories. Sure, there's a "Goldilocks zone" for humans, but the same conditions for what is "just right" might not apply to forms of life elsewhere in the universe. The life might not even be carbon-based, for all we know. 🙄

*Goes back to reading Weinbaum, watching the X-Files, etc.*

 

[joshinjosh]

Um... I think you're missing a variable that determines the state of water at a given temperature.

The pressure on this newly discovered planet is sufficiently high that it is quite happily liquid at 400 C. Considering its period is 1.5 days, it's pretty damn close to its star.

must be one pretty damn big planet

 

[bamtuba]

Define "Creator", please.

Well, I would personally define Creator in this case as an intelligence that guides or directs something to occur rather than having the faith that "time and chance" are good enough to explain such a problem as the beginnings of all that we know.

I believe that Creator was the God spoken of in the Bible.

I won't get into a religious flame war on this topic, but this is what I believe.

I have come to this conclusion as a result of personally reading what the Bible has to say, critically analyzing what I've been told throughout my education, and never taking anything at face value just because someone told me to believe one thing or another.

Science and religion are not mutually exclusive and I personally believe in both. I just find many are willing to disregard the scientific method in favor of disproving religious thought.

 

[redsquareblack]

must be one pretty damn big planet

Why's that?

 

[redsquareblack]

Also, I apologize. I said 400 C, but I believe the temperature is closer to 400 F. Still pretty damn hot, but much more reasonable.