1. The SDN iPhone App is back and free through November! Get it today and please post a review on the App Store!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Interview Feedback: Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

Interviewing Masterclass: Free masterclass on interviewing from SDN and Medical College of Georgia

international application-NAVLE-BSCE-PhD vs MD

Discussion in 'Pre-Veterinary' started by VixiGh, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. VixiGh

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi guys(and Drs!)
    As English is not my mother language i hope you don't mind if i make some mistakes ;)

    I really appreciate if you answer my questions:

    1.Do i need to take NAVLE or BCSE exams if I want to continue my study as PhD or MD in USA? or i just need to take them when i wanna work ?

    2.What are the differences between PhD and MD in salary and type of works they can do(it matters for me because i hate to work in lab and doing ELISA or something all day long! I prefer to move with my car around to help and cure animals,or work at vet schools as teacher or professor or so... and have all those young guys around me or work as a surgeon...)

    3.As an international student i need to get "Fund" from the university i apply to....what are your suggestions to increase my chance in getting fund?

    4.Is it a good idea to apply for pathology PhD/MD?(would i get a good job after i finished my study?)

    5.What is the highest degree in veterinary somebody can get?

    6.Can you name some NAVLE/BCSE prep books please?(I know zuku and some others site but i need Books.:bookworm:)

    7.What are the best states for veterinarians to live in or work or study?

    I really appreciate you for spending some time and answering my questions!:happy: any advice for me?
    any grammar or spelling correction is appreciated i promise i wont repeat them again!
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. psilovethomas

    psilovethomas fading
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    483
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    Well, MD and DVM are two very different degrees. MD's do not take the NAVLE, but the USMLE instead. You might want to head over to the MD forum and see if they can help you. An MD degree in the US is not equivalent to a DVM. You will not be allowed to practice as a veterinarian with an MD degree.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  4. allygator13

    allygator13 SGU/UTK c/o 2018!
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    567
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    Are you looking to be a medical human doctor or a medical veterinary doctor? MD is for humans, DVM is for veterinarians.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  5. VixiGh

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm a vet.but i heard vets can get both MD and PhD,that's why i asked this question...I wanted to know which one is better to spend my time on studing on it.And by better i mean better in salary.
    If I want to be a vet surgeon what degree do i need?PhD?MD?something else?
    thank you for answer!
     
  6. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
    Veterinarian 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    37,980
    Likes Received:
    24,548
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    MD= medical doctor. That is a human doctor.

    Phd= research degree, can be in anything, really. Won't do jack crap for you to practice veterinary medicine in the US.

    You need to get a DVM= doctor of veterinary medicine. If you have your degree from a different country, then you need to look at ECFVG and PAVE and go through those processes in order to practice veterinary medicine in the US.

    I don't know what you mean by continuing your study as PhD or MD.

    You really need to provide more information.. what exactly are you looking for? Are you looking to practice as a veterinarian in the US? Are you looking to do a PhD in something? Do you want to do human medicine? I have no idea what you are even wanting to do or what you are looking for/asking.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  7. allygator13

    allygator13 SGU/UTK c/o 2018!
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    567
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    If you only want to be a veterinary surgeon, then you can do a residency to become a board certified veterinary surgeon. In this case you don't need an MD or PhD degree, just a DVM. I don't understand why you would want an MD degree unless you want to be a human doctor.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  8. psilovethomas

    psilovethomas fading
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    483
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    A vet cannot practice as an MD (human doctor). A vet works with animals and an MD works with humans. There is absolutely no cross over of practice between veterinary and human medicine- ie a veterinarian is absolutely not allowed to perform medical treatments on or prescribe medications to a human.

    If you are a vet and wish to be an MD, you will have to go to medical school, and take the USMLE and pass it.
    If you are a vet and wish to be a PhD, you will need to find a university that will accept you to their program of study and give you a study visa that will allow you to travel to the US.
    If you are a vet from a non US accredited school, you will need to take the PAVE or ECVFG, which are additional examinations that certify you are competent to work in the US as a vet. I am not sure if you need these certifications to pursue a PhD in vet med and not practice medicine.

    As for salary: medical doctors (MDs) have a considerably larger salary than a veterinarian. In fact, even the lowest average paying medical specialty is still higher than the average salary of most veterinary specialists. BUT you need a medical doctor degree (even if you have a vet degree) to practice human medicine (MD).

    In the US, a veterinary surgeon is a specialist who has completed additional training and passed the surgery board exam. Veterinary surgery is a very competitive field- you will need to show that you were at the top of your veterinary school class and have surgical experience.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  9. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
    Veterinarian 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    37,980
    Likes Received:
    24,548
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    Just a side note here... Veterinary surgeon in the vast majority of places = veterinarian in the US. In the UK, Europe and many other places a veterinarian is called a "veterinary surgeon", it does not imply board certification or specialized training. Just a side note, since I know that terminology can get confusing between countries.
     
    VixiGh and allygator13 like this.
  10. VixiGh

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for help!
    Correct me if I'm wrong,so the highest degree for a vet in US is PhD?
    I won't need to take NAVLE if I like to continue studing as PhD after I took my DVM(from a non-accredit school)
    And I need to take BCSE,then NAVLE,then an exam for surgeons to work as a "Vet surgeon" in the US,right?
    And could you please tell me what's the name of the exam for veterinary surgeons that "psilovethomas" mentioned in his last paragraph?and where can I get more information about it?
    thank you again...
     
  11. dyachei

    dyachei vet robot pirate zombie
    Administrator Veterinarian 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    24,494
    Likes Received:
    17,783
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    If you want to practice as a vet in the US, you need to take the NAVLE
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  12. shortnsweet

    shortnsweet Just Keep Swimming
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,200
    Likes Received:
    1,181
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    No....
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  13. psilovethomas

    psilovethomas fading
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    483
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    If you plan to not practice as a vet after your PhD, I guess you will not need to take the NAVLE

    You will need to complete a surgical residency, and the take the American College of Veterinary Surgeons Certification Examination.
    https://www.acvs.org/ -This website has a lot of info on veterinary surgeons and how to become one.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  14. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
    Veterinarian 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    37,980
    Likes Received:
    24,548
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    I don't think the OP really wants to work as a board certified surgeon... I think he is using the term veterinary surgeon as that is what a normal, every day, private practice veterinarian is called in other countries.

    OP,

    1. A "veterinary surgeon" in the US is someone who does only surgery. No normal appointments with animals... so no dermatology, vaccinations, eye issues, or other every day things vets see in a private practice. So if you only want to do surgery and become board certified you will need to take NAVLE, ECFVG and/or PAVE, apply for an internship (required before surgery residency), apply for residency after 1 year of internship. Then go through residency (3 years), take the board exam and pass. This is what is considered a veterinary specialty. After residency you can then work as a board-certified surgeon usually in a veterinary referral center/hospital or at a veterinary school.

    2. If you just want to be a veterinarian and work on animals in a private practice hospital and you already have a veterinary degree from a non-AVMA accredited veterinary school, then you need to take ECFVG and/or PAVE and the NAVLE as well. Then once you pass all those you can practice as a veterinarian.

    3. A PhD is not needed to practice as a vet. Some people get a PhD in combination with a veterinary degree because they are interested in a particular area (like public health). Usually a PhD will give you more opportunities to do research as a veterinarian, but it is not required and probably rather useless to have a PhD working in your average private practice veterinary clinic. If you don't want to work as a veterinarian and just want to do a PhD and continue that in the US, then you need to apply to PhD programs and get one of them to support you for a visa to come study in the US. Again PhD does NOT equal veterinary degree at all, in any way, shape or form.

    I am still confused at what you are trying to figure out or what degree it is that you want exactly, but hopefully the above cleared up some things.
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  15. VixiGh

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    So it seems it's a bit hard to get a surgery degree in veterinary specially for international students,at least I need to take 5 exams(TOEFL,GRE,BCSE,NAVLE,and surgery exam!!!)
    As you are living in America and studing or working as a VET which of the following ways are easier for me to get to America?
    1.leaving my vet school in my country and trying to study in america(that means I lose 3-4 years of my life spending on vet school but I think its a good way because in this way I don't need to take BCSE and maybe NAVLE)
    2.finishing my study in my country and took my DVM degree and taking BCSE then NAVLE.
    3.applying for PhD after i took my DVM degree.

    sorry if I ask so many questions,It's the only way I can answer my questions...
     
  16. dyachei

    dyachei vet robot pirate zombie
    Administrator Veterinarian 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    24,494
    Likes Received:
    17,783
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    If you are going to become a vet in the USA, and you intend to practice here, you NEED to take the NAVLE. It stands for North American Veterinary Licensing Exam. You will not be able to get a license to practice without it.

    Do you intend to do research? Otherwise why do you want a PhD?
     
    VixiGh likes this.
  17. VixiGh

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    If i apply for PhD and get some funds and visa I can get to US and work as a PhD without taking NAVLE(becasue it seems a bit harder for international students).but all I need to have is good point in TOEFL and GRE and some ISI and some research.then I can decide if I wanna take NAVLE and work as DVM and both PhD(but I don't know if its logic idea or not!) maybe you can help.
    thanks
     
  18. dyachei

    dyachei vet robot pirate zombie
    Administrator Veterinarian 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    24,494
    Likes Received:
    17,783
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    You won't be able to practice CLINICAL medicine with a PhD. If you are interested in research, I think it's an ok idea. However, if you want to work in clinical veterinary medicine, you need to be licensed.
     
  19. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
    Veterinarian 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    37,980
    Likes Received:
    24,548
    Status:
    Veterinarian
    No, you can't. You can come to the US and do a PhD, but that in itself does not qualify you to skip taking ECFVG and/or PAVE before you can take the NAVLE.

    If you want to work as a veterinarian in the US you HAVE to take ECFVG/PAVE/NAVLE.... there is no way around that. Only way around that would be to start vet school over in the US, go through all 4 years of vet school, then you still HAVE to take the NAVLE.

    A PhD will not give you any exception to taking the additional exams for foreign graduates to become licensed as a veterinarian.

    You still have not answered... what are you wanting to do? What do you want to work as? I don't think you are understanding the difference between a PhD degree and a veterinary degree.
     
  20. VixiGh

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know the difference between PhD and DVM.Yes I don't know exactly what I wanna do in the US.that's why I ask different questions about PhD and DVM and others to find out which one really fits me.
    But it seems I need to study for NAVLE anyway.
    I really like to get my degree from US,your universities are the best,you know.And I want to do my best too.
    anyway,Time to study for lovely NAVLE!:bookworm:
    And (It gonna be my last question,no more bothering for you guys:happy:) :What do I need if I want to study in an AVMA accredit school in US as an international student? (do I need to take TOEFL? or any other exam)
     
  21. vedun

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Veterinarian

    As foreign PhD/DVM working in US my answers are:
    1. yes for DVM, no for PhD
    2. Depends... Some PhDs also drive with car around and help clients for a very good $$$,$$$.
    3. Yes, for any type of international student out of state rate.
    4. If you want/like it, yes. If you do not like working in lab all day - I do not recommend it for you.
    5. DVM.
    6. There are 38 pages of answers at "Foreign Veterinary Graduates" discussion.
    7. Depends. Usually the ones they like.

    Each of your questions deserves separate topic. Many were already answered on this forum, just Google it.
     
    Hawaii vet and VixiGh like this.
  22. Dark Cloud

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    5
    I know its so old but I think what he meant by MD is master degree
     

Share This Page