Interview Question on Cheating

[joh0472]

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So I hear that one of the questions that interviewers like to ask is, what would you do if you saw your best friend cheating? I know the right answer is to report him/her, but who actually would do that? Be honest I don't know your identity.

 

[busyizzy]

There is no right answer. If interviewers asked easy right or wrong questions, I doubt people would be stressed about interviews as they are.

I'd confront my friend, and talk to them about it. I wouldn't necessarily report him/her. It depends on the circumstances.

 

[voitokas]

So I hear that one of the questions that interviewers like to ask is, what would you do if you saw your best friend cheating? I know the right answer is to report him/her, but who actually would do that? Be honest I don't know your identity.

Why do you think that's the right answer?

 

[joh0472]

Why do you think that's the right answer?

The pre-health counselor at my school told me that was the answer that interviewers at USN were looking for.

 

[Prepharm1214]

A quick search would provide you with a wealth of knowledge on this question, it has been asked many many times including a little over a week ago...

 

[avuong]

The right answer is to not report your friend because it shows that you are not a conniving whistle-blower, and it also shows that you share a deep bond with your friend which people who would snitch might not share.

Reporting a close friend is a sign that you have an unstable personality, willing to betray, accuse, putting down anyone in your path for your own personal gain.

Thats not a good image to project. You want people to be able to trust that you can handle confidential and personal information.

If you are indeed willing to whistle-blow in cold-blood, can your superiors trust that you will keep HIPAA information in confidence? Will you rattle off your patients' protected health information?

Thats why it is very important to respect your friend's decision, and weather out his/her troubles in good times and in bad.

Lets put the question this way: If you were placed in your friend's situation, would you like him or her to report you, or would you like for him or her to weather out the hard times with you, support you on the path to recovery which does not include being expelled from school which you have worked ever so hard all your life to to reach. Lets not always assume you have to power to end another human being's life journey in the palm of your hands. Make sure that you would indeed do unto others as you would have others done unto yourself.

If youre okay with taking advantage of the power you have in the moment; just pray that others if given that same power, will show you mercy, show you compassion and forgiveness that you yourself did not have the heart to show.

Amen.

 

[busyizzy]

The right answer is to not report your friend because it shows that you are not a snitch, and it also shows that you share a deep bond with your friend which people who would snitch might not share.

Reporting a close friend is a sign that you have the personality of gunning, willing to betray, accuse, putting down anyone in your path for your own personal gain.

Thats not a good image to project. You want people to be able to trust you, and trust that you can handle confidential and personal information.

If you are indeed willing to snitch in cold-blood, can your supervisors trust that you will keep HIPAA information in confidence? Will you rattle off your patients' protected health information too?

Thats why it is very important to respect your friend's decision, and weather out his/her troubles in good times and in bad.

Lets put the question this way: If you were placed in your friend's situation, would you like him or her to report you, or would you like for him or her to weather out the hard times with you, support you on the path to recovery which does not include being expelled from school which you have worked ever so hard all your life to to reach. Lets not always assume you have to power to end another human being's life journey in the palm of your hands. Make sure that you would indeed do unto others as you would have others done unto yourself.

If youre okay with taking advantage of the power you have in the moment; just pray that others if given that same power, will show you mercy, show you compassion and forgiveness that you yourself did not have the heart to show.

Amen.

Um. What if your friend was stealing drugs from the pharmacy? Or bringing in forged prescriptions? Would you also "not snitch?"

 

[cheeseboy2]

the can has been opened and the worms are going crazy.

 

[diastole]

I got this question and I couldn't bring myself to say that I would turn my best friend in. I said I'd talk to her and try to get her to do the right thing. I tried to say that I would turn her in but I couldn't make the words come out of my mouth because it would be a total lie. I did say that I would turn her in if she were endangering patients at a pharmacy.

I thought the question is not a useful one because so many people are just going to lie when answering. However, I didn't give the right answer and I still got in so maybe there isn't a right answer afterall.

 

[avuong]

Um. What if your friend was stealing drugs from the pharmacy? Or bringing in forged prescriptions?

Stealing, cheating, forging, etc. are all signs of trouble. That doesnt mean your friend is a "bad" person, it just means theyre in a rough spot in their life right now, that their lives are not in order.
You have the personal responsibility to guide them onto the path towards recovery.
Does that mean sitting down for a heart to heart conversation? or
Does that mean simply reporting them to authorities so you wont have to deal with it yourself?
Thats your personal call to make. If you dont feel secure enough teaching your own kids about sex education, its easy to push the responsibility onto the school system, onto someone else.

If you make the assumption that everyone is bad and needs punishment to cure the bad, thats gonna make matters worse. Violence begets violence.

I believe that everyone is born with good. Education and rehabilitation brings out the good in all of us.

 

[TXPharmDStudent]

So I hear that one of the questions that interviewers like to ask is, what would you do if you saw your best friend cheating? I know the right answer is to report him/her, but who actually would do that? Be honest I don't know your identity.

That's not the right answer because it's not believable. Nobody in their right mind would do that without talking to their friend about trying to reverse the action.

 

[desler]

Um. What if your friend was stealing drugs from the pharmacy? Or bringing in forged prescriptions? Would you also "not snitch?"

Why would you snitch on your friends for bringing in forged Rx? You can just not fill the Rx. Also you can just call your friend out for stealing....

you clearly have no friends.

 

[desler]

double post

 

[busyizzy]

Why would you snitch on your friends for bringing in forged Rx? You can just not fill the Rx. Also you can just call your friend out for stealing....

you clearly have no friends.

No, you still wouldn't snitch. Just don't fill the forged prescriptions and call him or her out on the stealing drugs part... What is wrong with you?

Maybe your so called "friends" are only friends with you cuz it's so easy to take advantage of you. Shrug. Your friend comment was below the belt. Also, your "what is wrong with you" comment. Just because someone has differing opinions from you, doesn't mean there's something wrong with them. avuong makes a nice point without stooping to insulting people and their friends. You, not so much.

ANYWAY. My point in saying that. There comes a point in time when talking with your friends does nothing. If you notice my FIRST comment, I said, I'd try to talk to them. But there are always different circumstances, and there are some circumstances when talking might not do anything. If your "friend" was a serial murderer and rapist who just raped and murdered your mother, would you just talk to them and not report them ... because awwww, they're your friend? Take their hand, sit down with them, and discuss what they did was wrong. If they are sorry and tell you that it won't happen again, bygones be bygones! You wouldn't "snitch" on them? Whatever about the dead person? Very extreme example, I know, but just because they are your friend, doesn't excuse them from certain behaviors. That is my point.

 

[cascones92]

When I was an undergrad I had a high school friend that was in my bioethics class. He was sick a lot and was diagnosed by the school's health center with pneumonia. To make a long story short I ran into him after the final and he thanked me for helping him on the final. He said he looked off my test and because of that he was able to keep an A in the class. I never would have known this was done had he not told me. My girlfriend at the time was adamant about me turning him in for cheating, and I never did. It turns out he did not have pneumonia, he had leukemia of which he died of maybe 6 years later. I don't condone cheating, but I agree with everyone that you need to see the big picture on some things. Not everything is black and white.

 

[desmoulins45179]

If I talked to my friend and they did not change their behavior (they said **** this I'll do what I want), then yes, I would turn them in. Though I think cheating/stealing is wrong in any circumstance. If I was going through I rough patch in my life, I certainly would not cheat or steal.

 

[pharm B]

No, you still wouldn't snitch. Just don't fill the forged prescriptions and call him or her out on the stealing drugs part... What is wrong with you?

So you should call the police on a junkie who brings in a Lortab prescription written in crayon on a napkin, but if it's your best bud, you'll just not fill it?

I think part of getting into this field is being willing to obey all of the laws that govern it, not just some and not just when it doesn't involve someone you know.

 

[diastole]

So you should call the police on a junkie who brings in a Lortab prescription written in crayon on a napkin, but if it's your best bud, you'll just not fill it?

I think part of getting into this field is being willing to obey all of the laws that govern it, not just some and not just when it doesn't involve someone you know.

I was talking to a pharmacist yesterday and she said if you get an illegal script, just write on it so they can't fill it elsewhere but don't call the police because it is too much hassle. Another pharmacist told me the same thing. I don't know what the laws are here but it sounds like you aren't obligated to call the police.

 

[diastole]

Stealing, cheating, forging, etc. are all signs of trouble. That doesnt mean your friend is a "bad" person, it just means theyre in a rough spot in their life right now, that their lives are not in order.
You have the personal responsibility to guide them onto the path towards recovery.
Does that mean sitting down for a heart to heart conversation? or
Does that mean simply reporting them to authorities so you wont have to deal with it yourself?
Thats your personal call to make. If you dont feel secure enough teaching your own kids about sex education, its easy to push the responsibility onto the school system, onto someone else.

If you make the assumption that everyone is bad and needs punishment to cure the bad, thats gonna make matters worse. Violence begets violence, discipline begets resentment.

I believe that everyone is born with good. Education and rehabilitation brings out the good in all of us, even those who may happen to forget or lapse into a mindset of self-indulgence.

Work towards bringing out the best in people, and the best will grow. If you try to fight fire with fire, only fire will result, not peace.
THe world right now is in want of peace.

That's all fine and good but if your friend is the pharmacist that works with you and you are involved in a cover up if there are illegal acts going on, you will get fired if it comes out. Guide your friend to recovery all you want but it is your mortgage that isn't going to get paid and your family that isn't going to get fed if you break the procedures because you don't want to push the responsibility onto someone else.

 

[pharm B]

I was talking to a pharmacist yesterday and she said if you get an illegal script, just write on it so they can't fill it elsewhere but don't call the police because it is too much hassle. Another pharmacist told me the same thing. I don't know what the laws are here but it sounds like you aren't obligated to call the police.

I'm referring more to the ethical actions that should be taken. Would you really tell an interviewer: "Nah, I don't have time to do it. Tell on someone for cheating? Waaayyy too much of a hassle to even bother with it." Our pharmacists say the same thing (don't call, it's too much of a hassle), but I think that's wrong personally. If you're committing a federal offense, I think you should be made accountable.

As a connoisseur of fine quality television programs, I once watched an episode of COPS where the pharmacist called the cops on a fake Rx. The patient who gave them the fake Rx tried to hassle the cops, pretending she was an attorney. They went ahead and arrested her and found like 7 bags of medications from different pharmacies under different names in her car. She also had 4 or 5 different sets of license plates and a few drivers licenses.

 

[DocAcclamation]

Give the best answer given youself character and integrity.

 

[TXPharmDStudent]

I really don't think interview questions have a specific right answer but I think they have a specific wrong answer. A lot of them want to see how you reason through things and that you can communicate ideas.

All of my interview answers to Q's were very unique or at least I thought they were. Nothing says "vanilla" more than giving a generic answer.

 

[desler]

So you should call the police on a junkie who brings in a Lortab prescription written in crayon on a napkin, but if it's your best bud, you'll just not fill it?

I think part of getting into this field is being willing to obey all of the laws that govern it, not just some and not just when it doesn't involve someone you know.

Yes, exactly. I would just not fill it and call my best bud an f'in idiot and rip on his ass for being dumb, because that's what real friendship is. Not call the police...are you guys just playing devil's advocate or would really call the cops on your best friend?

 

[desler]

Maybe your so called "friends" are only friends with you cuz it's so easy to take advantage of you. Shrug. Your friend comment was below the belt. Also, your "what is wrong with you" comment. Just because someone has differing opinions from you, doesn't mean there's something wrong with them. avuong makes a nice point without stooping to insulting people and their friends. You, not so much.

totally off on the so called friends part, but I guess I made an assumption about you too so we're even.

btw not snitching doesn't mean excusing the behavior.

 

[desler]

That's all fine and good but if your friend is the pharmacist that works with you and you are involved in a cover up if there are illegal acts going on, you will get fired if it comes out. Guide your friend to recovery all you want but it is your mortgage that isn't going to get paid and your family that isn't going to get fed if you break the procedures because you don't want to push the responsibility onto someone else.

this isn't even the same situation as the OPs question. not snitching on your best friend cheating on a test does not make you a criminal or implicate you in anyway.

 

[pharm B]

The criminal conversation is just an extension of the original question

It's not the same thing, but any test I took while in the navy's nuclear school had a cover page with an integrity statement on it. Violations were punishable under the UCMJ.

 

[diastole]

this isn't even the same situation as the OPs question. not snitching on your best friend cheating on a test does not make you a criminal or implicate you in anyway.

Nor did I say it was. The poster I was replying to was talking about friends stealing drugs or bringing in a forged prescription. I was specifically referring to covering for your friend stealing drugs if you both work at the same place. It will get you fired in a heartbeat. I never said nor implied that someone is a criminal for not turning in a cheater. Though in a school with an honor code, not doing so can get people in serious trouble.

 

[huonguyen]

I had this question last week and I believe there is no right or wrong answer for this. But in front of the interviewer, I must apply what I learn in school to answer this.

My answer during my interview: If I caught my friend cheat, I must turn him/her in. Since we are in grad-school, pharmacy school, we all have learn codes of ethic and being profesional, cheating is unacceptable. Besides, if I cover for this person because of his/her circumstances, I already against the school policy. He/she must disclose his/her circumstance to the advisory counsel not me. Next to that, if my friend cheats, his/her behavior has already hurt my other classmates and professors. His/her behavior has shown that he/she unprepare to experience in the pharmacy field and lack of ethic may hurt his future patients.

 

[busyizzy]

totally off on the so called friends part, but I guess I made an assumption about you too so we're even.

Yes, I call that sarcasm. Internet really needs a universal sarcasm font or something.

btw not snitching doesn't mean excusing the behavior.

Anyway, I have a problem with the word "snitching." What are we, in preschool? Pointing fingers and calling each other tattle tales? I'm sorry, but we're applying to be in professional school. Sometimes, your professional responsibility takes over. I respect that YOU respect YOUR friendships - but that doesn't mean that other people who would act differently than you in certain situations DO NOT have friends or "snitch" on their friends at first opportunity (and thus, do not respect their friends or whatever).

I brought up the issue of stealing drugs or forged prescriptions, because I believe that's an extrapolation of the original question. What will you do during an exam when you witness a friend doing something wrong .... extrapolated to once you graduate, what will you do in a pharmacy when you witness a friend doing something wrong? You believe they're asking you this question to see if you can be trustful with your personal relationships (aka, not "snitching") - but I believe they're asking this question to see how trustful you are in your professional relationship (huonguyen's answer pretty much). Which is right or wrong? Neither, I think. As long as you back up your answer with something logical. We don't know WHAT the admissions people are looking for, really.

 

[marshalney]

The right answer is to not report your friend because it shows that you are not a snitch, and it also shows that you share a deep bond with your friend which people who would snitch might not share.

Reporting a close friend is a sign that you have the personality of gunning, willing to betray, accuse, putting down anyone in your path for your own personal gain.

Thats not a good image to project. You want people to be able to trust you, and trust that you can handle confidential and personal information.

If you are indeed willing to snitch in cold-blood, can your supervisors trust that you will keep HIPAA information in confidence? Will you rattle off your patients' protected health information too?

Thats why it is very important to respect your friend's decision, and weather out his/her troubles in good times and in bad.

Lets put the question this way: If you were placed in your friend's situation, would you like him or her to report you, or would you like for him or her to weather out the hard times with you, support you on the path to recovery which does not include being expelled from school which you have worked ever so hard all your life to to reach. Lets not always assume you have to power to end another human being's life journey in the palm of your hands. Make sure that you would indeed do unto others as you would have others done unto yourself.

If youre okay with taking advantage of the power you have in the moment; just pray that others if given that same power, will show you mercy, show you compassion and forgiveness that you yourself did not have the heart to show.

Amen.

.This post really bothered me a lot. IMHO this poster grossly distorts the rationale behind reporting (aka "snitching") and possesses a fundamentally flawed set of priorities.

"The right answer is to not report your friend because it shows that you are not a snitch"
Hate the word "Snitch." Someone else already commented on how juvenile it is. Plus it's hardly a neutral and unbiased term...It's like asking someone if they are pro life or pro baby murdering. It also assumes an interviewer would think in the same heavily biased terms as well. If someone does use the "do not report" answer in an interview i would not use his rationale.

"and it also shows that you share a deep bond with your friend which people who would snitch might not share"
So what? I know he goes on to talk about this a bit more but I challenge anyone here to ask themselves how choosing personal friendship over professional integrity will make you a better doctor. Think about that from the interviewer's POV.

"Reporting a close friend is a sign that you have the personality of gunning, willing to betray, accuse, putting down anyone in your path for your own personal gain." *wince* so many things wrong here.

"Personality of Gunning"--Not necessarily, can you report a friend out of a MORAL OBLIGATION rather than malice?
"willing to betray"--who betrayed who when they decided to cheat in the first place? I'd never report out of revenge, but it is your friend who is forcing this difficult choice on you. Besides you'd be betraying your classmates, your school, any of your friend's future patients, not to mention, yourself, if you remained silent.
"[willing to] accuse"--The guts to accuse someone of something is a noble trait in certain circumstances. Show of hands, who wants a doc who'd rather remain silent than accuse?
"putting down anyone in your path for your own personal gain"--this one made me lol. I got this mental image of some nerd Hulking out and knocking cars and people out of his way. Anyway. Since when does reporting automatically have to be for personal gain? And why does it mean they'd "[put] down anyone?" the poster makes it sound like there is some bounty or extra credit reward for turning in a fellow classmate. Truth is, reporting someone usually causes a great deal of pain and suffering for the person doing the reporting. It's a strawman argument to claim that a "snitch" is in it for the personal gain.

"Thats not a good image to project. You want people to be able to trust you, and trust that you can handle confidential and personal information."

This is a non sequitur. What does reporting someone you observe cheating have to do with handling confidential information? If anything, NOT reporting just shows that you value your relationship with your buddy more than your ethical responsibilities to the field. I want the doc who had the resolve to turn in his cheating classmate/friend, because I'd know he have high professional standards.

But you are right about one thing, trust IS very important in medicine. I need to trust that my colleague or physician got to where he is honestly, and that he actually earned his degree. I need to trust that my doctor doesn't value his personal friendships above his obligation to his profession or to me for that matter. I need to trust that my doctor holds himself to a higher moral standard than perhaps the average Joe...


"If you are indeed willing to snitch in cold-blood, can your supervisors trust that you will keep HIPAA information in confidence? Will you rattle off your patients' protected health information too?"

Same as above, non sequitur--Unless you believe that "snitching" on classmates comes out of some irresistible compulsion to divulge secrets. I mean this is ridiculous...what does leaking confidential HIPAA information have to do with reporting academic dishonesty? Again, I'd trust the doctor who put his code of ethics above his personal friendships more than the guy who enabled his friend get away with cheating.

"If you were placed in your friend's situation...": Ok, Stop there. REPORT ME! Preferably after asking me to report myself. Nuff said.

"...power to end another human being's life journey..."
Oh please.

"If youre okay with taking advantage of the power you have in the moment; just pray that others if given that same power, will show you mercy, show you compassion and forgiveness that you yourself did not have the heart to show."

This would work if he only wronged you. I.e. if you caught him stealing your TV and you decided to forgive him. However, in this case, he ..(dishonestly) ..got a grade he didn't earn at the expense of you AND your classmates. If he turns himself in and makes things right he can talk to the prof about a second chance....otherwise, it's not your call to forgive him for hurting others.


Moral of avuong's story: It's ok to let personal relationships get in the way of your professional duty because doing what's right would make you a lousy friend, and potentially make you a hypocrite for breaking the golden rule if you, yourself, decided to start cheating..

 

[joh0472]

Great comments, I still don't know if I could turn in my best friend for cheating. I don't know if I would turn in my best friend for murder so....

 

[desler]

I am truly amazed.

So basically you're saying you'd sacrifice a best friendship for the sake of upholding your own "professional integrity," and "morals" ? You'd ruin the life of your best friend, because you just HAD to maintain professionality? How selfish are you? Why wouldn't you counsel the friend yourself instead of turning them in? You must not know what a meaningful/long-term friendship is. This is cheating on a test we're talking about.. not murder or terrorism. What? Do you lose sleep at night because your friend cheated on a test and you didn't turn him/her in? Get over yourself. What happened to human camaraderie and trust? When did "professional integrity" become a top priority for human existence?

Amazing.

 

[Namishin]

I'm sure the interviewers are more interested in the reasoning than the answers. However, I personally find it difficult to believe someone would completely destroy their best friend's life for the sake of a moral obligation.

 

[busyizzy]

I am truly amazed.

So basically you're saying you'd sacrifice a best friendship for the sake of upholding your own "professional integrity," and "morals" ? You'd ruin the life of your best friend, because you just HAD to maintain professionality? How selfish are you? Why wouldn't you counsel the friend yourself instead of turning them in? You must not know what a meaningful/long-term friendship is. This is cheating on a test we're talking about.. not murder or terrorism. What? Do you lose sleep at night because your friend cheated on a test and you didn't turn him/her in? Get over yourself. What happened to human camaraderie and trust? When did "professional integrity" become a top priority for human existence?

Amazing.

I'm sure the interviewers are more interested in the reasoning than the answers. However, I personally find it difficult to believe someone would completely destroy their best friend's life for the sake of a moral obligation.

Oh get OVER yourselves. Turning someone in for cheating will NOT ruin their life. It will probably result in a '0' or a failing grade for that assignment/test, or maybe even for that class, but it's not the end of their lives, as long as they don't make it a habit.

That being said, I repeat what I initially said, I wouldn't just turn someone in for cheating. I'd probably try to talk to them, and see what they say, regardless if they're my best friend or just an acquaintance.

 

[roziak]

There are two answers to this question. As people have said on this thread, it really is the reasoning/rationale that make your answer correct no matter what stance you chose.

You guys both had good arguments for both sides and I think either of those answers would be great to say in an interview. Please grow up and quit getting upset that other people don't share the same views as you.

If I were to answer this question, honestly, I would tell my friend to turn himself in.

edit: btw, nice post marshalney

 

[desler]

Oh get OVER yourselves. Turning someone in for cheating will NOT ruin their life. It will probably result in a '0' or a failing grade for that assignment/test, or maybe even for that class, but it's not the end of their lives, as long as they don't make it a habit.

That being said, I repeat what I initially said, I wouldn't just turn someone in for cheating. I'd probably try to talk to them, and see what they say, regardless if they're my best friend or just an acquaintance.

You're kidding right? I don't know what institution you go to but at my school if you cheat you fail the course and get kicked out for at least a semester.... lol... "just get a 0 on the assignment" HAH.

 

[desmoulins45179]

I am truly amazed.

So basically you're saying you'd sacrifice a best friendship for the sake of upholding your own "professional integrity," and "morals" ? You'd ruin the life of your best friend, because you just HAD to maintain professionality? How selfish are you? Why wouldn't you counsel the friend yourself instead of turning them in? You must not know what a meaningful/long-term friendship is. This is cheating on a test we're talking about.. not murder or terrorism. What? Do you lose sleep at night because your friend cheated on a test and you didn't turn him/her in? Get over yourself. What happened to human camaraderie and trust? When did "professional integrity" become a top priority for human existence?

Amazing.

How selfish is your friend for cheating? And yes, I would feel incredibly guilty for turning a friend in, but would also feel incredibly guilty for not turning them in. I always try to live with integrity and to be true to myself.

 

[marshalney]

I am truly amazed.

So basically you're saying you'd sacrifice a best friendship for the sake of upholding your own "professional integrity," and "morals" ? You'd ruin the life of your best friend, because you just HAD to maintain professionality? How selfish are you? Why wouldn't you counsel the friend yourself instead of turning them in? You must not know what a meaningful/long-term friendship is. This is cheating on a test we're talking about.. not murder or terrorism. What? Do you lose sleep at night because your friend cheated on a test and you didn't turn him/her in? Get over yourself. What happened to human camaraderie and trust? When did "professional integrity" become a top priority for human existence?

Amazing.

I'm amazed too.

"So basically you're saying you'd sacrifice a best friendship for the sake of upholding your own "professional integrity," and "morals" ?"

Pfffsh, yeah, I mean c'mon it's just "professional integrity" and pesky "morals," right? If you can honor them, great, and if not, no big deal. Nothing to get bent out of shape over. Oh, and lets not forget, this is "[my] own" professional integrity "and "morals"." How selfish of me...reporting him based on 'my' morals.

It's not like I'm snapping at him for not following some counter intuitive arbitrary rule that I'm sensitive about...like yelling at him for not using coffee coasters on my glass table.
You make it sound like I'm completely insane for not trivializing morality. Shame on me.


"You'd ruin the life of your best friend, because you just HAD to maintain professionality?"

Good lord, way to blame the victim and erase personal accountability. Once again, it seems to be my selfish and horrible professionalism...
Ok, Lets get something straight, he is NOT the victim in this situation. He was the one who selfishly tried to cheat you and your fellow classmates. He made that choice. Furthermore, by exposing you to his cheating, he effectively destroyed your ability to walk away with a clean conscience. He put that moral burden on you. Is it too much to ask for him to own up for it and to do the right thing?
Additionally, as busyizzy said, you're not shooting them in the head by reporting them. Each school/prof will handle it differently but it's not necessarily the end of the road for a medical career--especially if the individual reports himself.

"How selfish are you? Why wouldn't you counsel the friend yourself instead of turning them in?"

There's that selfishness again...
I would talk to him/her of course. I don't know what you mean by "counsel" or what you think you'd achieve. I don't think there's any reason to be cold-hearted about it...you can be understanding yet firm. As i explained in my other post, it's about making things right rather than enjoying someone else's punishment. I think if they were a good friend they wouldn't want to put me in such a difficult and painful situation as having to choose between my conscience and my friendship. If the situation were reversed, I'd rather turn myself in than force my friend to turn me in...or not turn me in.

"You must not know what a meaningful/long-term friendship is"
It's almost like you actually know me! Sarcasm aside, lets keep it above the waist.


"This is cheating on a test we're talking about.. not murder or terrorism."
No, this is medicine and future physicians.

"Do you lose sleep at night because your friend cheated on a test and you didn't turn him/her in?"
If i was in that situation and I decided not to turn a classmate in out of friendship or fear of the repercussions/ensuing weirdness, I would see it as a moral defeat.


"Get over yourself"
No, you get over yourself. You are putting a personal friendship above your obligations. Why are he and you special? Let me ask anyone reading this: would you care as much about a stranger in some far away med school getting disciplined for cheating? I wouldn't. They'd get a standard dose of empathy for having messed up and done something stupid, but I'd be glad they were exposed. My point--unless you believe that the punishments for cheaters are too harsh and therefore unjust, the only difference between some tool getting punished and your friend is...your friendship. Why should that matter from a moral perspective? It may be a bitter pill to swallow but I think I'm right here...

"What happened to human camaraderie and trust? When did "professional integrity" become a top priority for human existence?"
What does trust have to do with the reporter? It's not like your friend came to you with a moral dilemma after cheating. You SAW the guy cheating and presumably trying to get away with it. Where's the trust indeed. Integrity, professional or otherwise, should always be a top priority.

 

[busyizzy]

You're kidding right? I don't know what institution you go to but at my school if you cheat you fail the course and get kicked out for at least a semester.... lol... "just get a 0 on the assignment" HAH.

I go to a Tier 1 university in the US.

But yes, all schools do have different standards.

But that doesn't change the fact that IT DOESN'T RUIN THEIR LIFE.

So you get kicked out for a semester. You just have to pick yourself up from where you left off. It might set you off for a semester or even a few years to rebuild the damage from the cheating incident, but it will not destroy your life. Rather, whatever time spent rebuilding your reputation is punishment for cheating, and a reminder of the negative consequences of cheating. Maybe it'll help prevent cheating from that individual in the future.

It's great that you wouldn't turn in your friend for blahblah trust blahblah the importance of friendship or whatever other reasons you've stated. But don't justify it by statements like "ruining their life" or whatever.

 

[avuong]

marshalney,
you are quite observant and your logic is indeed sound.

it was not the moral of my story exactly that you have to fear becoming a hypocrite, rather you should do unto others as you are prepared to have them do unto you -one fateful day in the future, if such a future were in your destiny. That is, be ready to take what you dish.

If one were to dish out nastiness, condescension, rudeness, etc. dont act surprised if the very people you insulted start fighting back one day. or Dont act all surprised if you wrong someone and one day someone else wrongs you in the exact same manner.

thats all i was trying to say.

when it comes to reporting a peer for cheating, thats another slippery slope. Do you report them for the sake of "moral duty", personal ethics, etc, and risk damaging your future relations (them feeling resentment, bitterness), or do you "enable" them as you say, let them off scotch free but risk feeling guilty yourself and then fail to uphold the law in the eyes of God.

Thats really all it boils down to. You must choose between your own personal friendships or the covenantal relationship with God. You must choose between doing what is Just, or doing what is easy but immoral. Remember that we all struggle with these decisions, and we all have to ask God for the courage to do what is Right.


Often we try to rationalize doing the wrong thing, we make excuses, and put up walls, play the victim when we in fact are not.
No one ever said doing the right thing was Easy. Often it is the most difficult choice to make, and one that does not require rationalization, but that we know in our heart of hearts is the right thing to do.

Find courage. Have faith even in the face of ridicule and persecution, and you will prevail, ultimately.

When you are weak, you will find strength in Him.

 

[UES Girl]

I go to a Tier 1 university in the US.

But yes, all schools do have different standards.

But that doesn't change the fact that IT DOESN'T RUIN THEIR LIFE.

So you get kicked out for a semester. You just have to pick yourself up from where you left off. It might set you off for a semester or even a few years to rebuild the damage from the cheating incident, but it will not destroy your life. Rather, whatever time spent rebuilding your reputation is punishment for cheating, and a reminder of the negative consequences of cheating. Maybe it'll help prevent cheating from that individual in the future.

It's great that you wouldn't turn in your friend for blahblah trust blahblah the importance of friendship or whatever other reasons you've stated. But don't justify it by statements like "ruining their life" or whatever.

Well actually, cheating is taken EXTREMELY seriously in pharmacy school.

If you are caught cheating, it will go on your permanent record and may potentially obstruct your from getting the residency you want, fellowship and etc. So, yet it won't ruin your life but it can mean a differece beteween doing a residency at a renown institution in the major metropolitan area and a residency somewhere far far away, where you don't want to be at.

Another thing, if you are suspended for a semester or a quarter, you are esentially suspended for an entire year- because winter classes have fall pre-reqs to them and etc. That means you are permanently separated from your entire class and will never get to be with them again. This may not seem like a big deal at first, but you come to be great friends with your classmates, neighbors and even roommates with your classmates, so this can definitely make your life a lot less pleasant.

 

[busyizzy]

Well actually, cheating is taken EXTREMELY seriously in pharmacy school.

If you are caught cheating, it will go on your permanent record and may potentially obstruct your from getting the residency you want, fellowship and etc. So, yet it won't ruin your life but it can mean a differece beteween doing a residency at a renown institution in the major metropolitan area and a residency somewhere far far away, where you don't want to be at.

Another thing, if you are suspended for a semester or a quarter, you are esentially suspended for an entire year- because winter classes have fall pre-reqs to them and etc. That means you are permanently separated from your entire class and will never get to be with them again. This may not seem like a big deal at first, but you come to be great friends with your classmates, neighbors and even roommates with your classmates, so this can definitely make your life a lot less pleasant.

I didn't know that about being caught cheating in pharm school.

But that actually proves some points I've been trying to make. Why is cheating taken so seriously in pharmacy school? Because it's that harmful - to yourself, to your classmates, and even in the future, to your patients, if you didn't properly learn the material in the first place. Cheating is very serious, so if you do witness someone cheating, there falls a responsibility on yourself to do something. It can be as simple as taking the person aside and talking to them or going as far as reporting the person. Regardless of what you decide to do, I don't think people should be calling those who do the latter "untrustful" and lacking "meaningful/long-term friendships" and whatever other disparaging things have been said.

Also, like I said, it's not the end of your life. Sure, you will be faced with some rather negative consequences, including what you listed, but that is what you chose to risk when you decided to cheat in the first place.

 

[desler]

I'm amazed too.

"So basically you're saying you'd sacrifice a best friendship for the sake of upholding your own "professional integrity," and "morals" ?"

Pfffsh, yeah, I mean c'mon it's just "professional integrity" and pesky "morals," right? If you can honor them, great, and if not, no big deal. Nothing to get bent out of shape over. Oh, and lets not forget, this is "[my] own" professional integrity "and "morals"." How selfish of me...reporting him based on 'my' morals.

It's not like I'm snapping at him for not following some counter intuitive arbitrary rule that I'm sensitive about...like yelling at him for not using coffee coasters on my glass table.
You make it sound like I'm completely insane for not trivializing morality. Shame on me.

I never trivialized professional integrity or morals, I simply conveyed my opinion that certain human bonds are worth more than being professional and "morals." Would you turn your wife/husband in? Your parents? Your siblings?

"You'd ruin the life of your best friend, because you just HAD to maintain professionality?"

Good lord, way to blame the victim and erase personal accountability. Once again, it seems to be my selfish and horrible professionalism...
Ok, Lets get something straight, he is NOT the victim in this situation. He was the one who selfishly tried to cheat you and your fellow classmates. He made that choice. Furthermore, by exposing you to his cheating, he effectively destroyed your ability to walk away with a clean conscience. He put that moral burden on you. Is it too much to ask for him to own up for it and to do the right thing?
Additionally, as busyizzy said, you're not shooting them in the head by reporting them. Each school/prof will handle it differently but it's not necessarily the end of the road for a medical career--especially if the individual reports himself.

First of all, it is a huge dent on the persons future ambitions, pretty much ruining their lives.

Secondly, "getting caught cheating is not that bad etc etc" is not even the main point. It's losing that friendship and trust. You people just don't understand do you lol.

Lastly, asking the friend to own up to it is included in counseling... so all of a sudden you're taking my stance?

"How selfish are you? Why wouldn't you counsel the friend yourself instead of turning them in?"

There's that selfishness again...
I would talk to him/her of course. I don't know what you mean by "counsel" or what you think you'd achieve. I don't think there's any reason to be cold-hearted about it...you can be understanding yet firm. As i explained in my other post, it's about making things right rather than enjoying someone else's punishment. I think if they were a good friend they wouldn't want to put me in such a difficult and painful situation as having to choose between my conscience and my friendship. If the situation were reversed, I'd rather turn myself in than force my friend to turn me in...or not turn me in.

Again.. you just took my stance. You seem to be thinking this debate is about whether or not the friend should be punished in some way. I never said the friend should be excused, all I said was you shouldn't snitch. There are other ways. This debate is about SNITCHING. Do you understand the difference?

"Do you lose sleep at night because your friend cheated on a test and you didn't turn him/her in?"
If i was in that situation and I decided not to turn a classmate in out of friendship or fear of the repercussions/ensuing weirdness, I would see it as a moral defeat.

Moral defeat lol. You act like you are a saint. If you're such a holy man praising about your morals and ****, why don't you turn yourself in for every sin or illegal act you've ever done in your life? Better yet, ask a friend to turn you in. Why didn't you turn yourself in every time you drank alcohol underage? Had sex before 18? Sped? Jaywalked? Didn't stop completely at a stop light? Where was your conscience then? Your conscience can stomach your own faults but not of others?

"Get over yourself"
No, you get over yourself. You are putting a personal friendship above your obligations. Why are he and you special? Let me ask anyone reading this: would you care as much about a stranger in some far away med school getting disciplined for cheating? I wouldn't. They'd get a standard dose of empathy for having messed up and done something stupid, but I'd be glad they were exposed. My point--unless you believe that the punishments for cheaters are too harsh and therefore unjust, the only difference between some tool getting punished and your friend is...your friendship. Why should that matter from a moral perspective? It may be a bitter pill to swallow but I think I'm right here...

Again, you are confused. This debate isn't about the punishment of a cheating friend.. it's about snitching and losing that friendship.

"What happened to human camaraderie and trust? When did "professional integrity" become a top priority for human existence?"
What does trust have to do with the reporter? It's not like your friend came to you with a moral dilemma after cheating. You SAW the guy cheating and presumably trying to get away with it. Where's the trust indeed. Integrity, professional or otherwise, should always be a top priority.

If professional integrity is the top priority in your life, then I feel sorry for you. Your ideology is very black and white, very absolutist, no room for compassion. You don't view the situation as anything other than: "oh **** my morals, turn him in now!" What if your best friend got you the Nike's you always wanted, but he stole them cus he's not well off? Your answer: report him.

It is clear that you and I grew up differently, with different upbringings and probably very very very different social circles. So I won't ever understand people like you. Let's just agree that you love your morals and integrity over any human bond you have, and I'm just the dishonest type that won't feel guilt for not turning in my best friend for cheating.

 

[SHC1984]

How selfish is your friend for cheating? And yes, I would feel incredibly guilty for turning a friend in, but would also feel incredibly guilty for not turning them in. I always try to live with integrity and to be true to myself.

I recently just lost a friend b/c that friend thought I was wrong in turning someone in for cheating! I felt bad at first then I thought....why the f*ck do I want a friend that is okay with cheating? People that are okay with cheating MOST LIKELY CHEAT THEMSELVES. I will NEVER want a cheater as a friend. So I am so happy that she doesn't want to be my friend b/c there is a 99.9% chance that she is a cheater too if she got mad at me for turning one in!

Let me first list the characteristics of cheaters.
Cheaters are:
1) they are selfish and lazy a-holes that want the HIGHEST grade for doing absolutely NO WORK.

2) they think they deserve the HIGHEST grade for doing NO WORK.

3) they think they deserve the BEST when they really don't deserve a spot in pharmacy school at all.

4) They don't respect OTHER people's hardwork. They think others deserve a LOWER grade and do NOT consider the fact that other people work their ass off while they are watching TV and relaxing and NOT doing work b/c they are CHEATERS!

Need I say more? If after reading all 4 reasons why I think why CHEATERS suck and you still think they are GOOD friendship materail...then you are crazy!!!!

Just think of it this way. A cheater could have easily made an A like everyone else that work their ass off...but instead they choose to be LAZY and not open a f*cking book before an exams to study. They were in total control of the situation and choose to take the douche bag way out. So why shouldn't I tell on them??

Someone give me ONE good reason why I shouldn't turn someone in that have ALL FOUR of those characteristics???

Okay sorry for the rant, but I reallly hate cheaters. I make my straight A(s) the good old fashion way by picking up a TEXTBOOK and reading it. maybe the cheaters should learn how to do the same thing for once! 🙄

 

[SHC1984]

I never trivialized professional integrity or morals, I simply conveyed my opinion that certain human bonds are worth more than being professional and "morals." Would you turn your wife/husband in? Your parents? Your siblings?




First of all, it is a huge dent on the persons future ambitions, pretty much ruining their lives.

Secondly, "getting caught cheating is not that bad etc etc" is not even the main point. It's losing that friendship and trust. You people just don't understand do you lol.

Lastly, asking the friend to own up to it is included in counseling... so all of a sudden you're taking my stance?



Again.. you just took my stance. You seem to be thinking this debate is about whether or not the friend should be punished in some way. I never said the friend should be excused, all I said was you shouldn't snitch. There are other ways. This debate is about SNITCHING. Do you understand the difference?



Moral defeat lol. You act like you are a saint. If you're such a holy man praising about your morals and ****, why don't you turn yourself in for every sin or illegal act you've ever done in your life? Better yet, ask a friend to turn you in. Why didn't you turn yourself in every time you drank alcohol underage? Had sex before 18? Sped? Jaywalked? Didn't stop completely at a stop light? Where was your conscience then? Your conscience can stomach your own faults but not of others?



Again, you are confused. This debate isn't about the punishment of a cheating friend.. it's about snitching and losing that friendship.



If professional integrity is the top priority in your life, then I feel sorry for you. Your ideology is very black and white, very absolutist, no room for compassion. You don't view the situation as anything other than: "oh **** my morals, turn him in now!" What if your best friend got you the Nike's you always wanted, but he stole them cus he's not well off? Your answer: report him.

It is clear that you and I grew up differently, with different upbringings and probably very very very different social circles. So I won't ever understand people like you. Let's just agree that you love your morals and integrity over any human bond you have, and I'm just the dishonest type that won't feel guilt for not turning in my best friend for cheating.

If you think letting someone that thinks they deserve the HIGHEST grade in the class with absolutely NO effort on their part continue their cheating behaviors, then you are the one thats f*ck up in the head.

So if your "friend" kills someone AND will do it again I am sure you will think its okay to let them go too right??? I mean after all they are your friends so its okay for them to be selfish, immoral, lazy, aholes! right??? totally cool?

 

[phathead]

So I hear that one of the questions that interviewers like to ask is, what would you do if you saw your best friend cheating? I know the right answer is to report him/her, but who actually would do that? Be honest I don't know your identity.

If it was a really hot chick, and his gf was a bitch, I'd high five him and say carry on!

Or are we talking about a different kind of cheating...

 

[litetigre]

Whatever side you take, be prepared to defend it in a coherent and logical way. Think twice about your answer because you have only 1 chance. Be yourself and be confident. Good luck pre-pharmist.

 

[SHC1984]

Whatever side you take, be prepared to defend it in a coherent and logical way. Think twice about your answer because you have only 1 chance. Be yourself and be confident. Good luck pre-pharmist.

+1

And for those of you that want the "right" answer to this question I will tell you what everybody wants to "hear".

The right answer to this question is:

If I caught someone cheating, I will first confront them. I will then ask them what they will do about it. I will give them a chance to turn themselves in. If they choose to NOT to say anything and continue cheating then I WILL turn them in myself.

The right answer has to include the fact that YOU WILL TURN THEM IN. No pharmacy school will EVER f*cking accept a person that is okay with cheating. If you think cheating is okay and tolerable in any way YOU WILL NOT GET ACCEPTED. Hint...Hint...🙄

Again, I never understand cheaters. I mean won't it be MUCH EASIER just to read the f*cking textbook than to plan elaborate ways to cheat your way thru pharmacy school???? I mean its FOUR long years...do you really think you can CHEAT EVERYTIME and NEVER get caught?? do you think its worth it to cheat, just so you don't have to read a book??? Is partying that extra night really worth the cheating you will have to do the next day??? Is reading a textbook really that HARD???? These douche bags just don't make any sense to me. LOL...

 

[desler]

If you think letting someone that thinks they deserve the HIGHEST grade in the class with absolutely NO effort on their part continue their cheating behaviors, then you are the one thats f*ck up in the head.

So if your "friend" kills someone AND will do it again I am sure you will think its okay to let them go too right??? I mean after all they are your friends so its okay for them to be selfish, immoral, lazy, aholes! right??? totally cool?

Did you even read my post? I never said they should be let go, all I said was you shouldn't snitch and lose the friendship. And what's with your rant? No one is saying cheating is excusable. This is a debate about snitching on your frien, not whether cheating is wrong or not lol.

and how do you know every cheater wants the highest grade? To me, it seems like most cheaters are just trying to get by. What if the person has a learning disability and got by with cheating in the past and became a habit? Why can't you try and counsel them instead of going apesh*t? Where is your compassion? If this group of future pharmacists treat their friendships this way, I wonder how they would treat patients who are total strangers to them.

And wow, did you really compare "cheating" to murder? If you wanna play like that, then how about the other way around then, would you report someone for jaywalking? I mean **** they're gonna keep jaywalking in the future and cause an accident one day! YOU BEST REPORT THEM! (The severity of the crime changes everything, if you didn't get the point of that, thus you can't compare it to murder)

 

[TXPharmDStudent]

Whatever side you take, be prepared to defend it in a coherent and logical way.

I think this is the best piece of advice so far.

In my interview I was asked what I would do if I found a copy of an upcoming exam at the copy room and would I tell my professor. I told them I would shred the exam and not tell the professor. They were kinda shocked that I wouldn't tell the professor but I reasoned that he or she could easily accuse me of breaking into their office and returning it as an attempt to get brownie points for them. Besides, telling them doesn't do any good anyways.