Is it OK to have a low PAT score?

Started by BRZ24
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BRZ24

BRZ24

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Does it make a difference if you make a 15-16 on the PAT versus 19-20?

the PAT score doesn't get counted into the AA right? I am taking my test soon and was wondering if I should just focus more on the sciences or spend some time with this PAT. I keep getting 17-18 on the practice test.

thanks.
 
What kind of practice tests are you doing? Some schools do value PAT a lot, some don't care. But you shouldn't get below a certain number or you will be cut off.
 
tomhrxbfg said:
What kind of practice tests are you doing? Some schools do value PAT a lot, some don't care. But you shouldn't get below a certain number or you will be cut off.
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CDP. I am so tired of trying to understand TFE. That is the only section that's killing me. I seriously took my sweet time doing hole punching, cube, and keyholes since those are my best sections. I ended up with a perfect score in hole punching and 10-12 on keyholes, cubes, but I can never get above 10 on TFE.

and my test is soon so you think I should just focus on my best sections for the PAT and hope for the best for TFE? lol

Also, I don't care what dental school I get into except howard and meharry.

I have gpa of 4.0 science and non science(although my prereqs are from cc but my upper level classes are 4.0 so far at the 4 year uni).

thanks.
 
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The real DAT's keyhole may be much harder than CDP...Make sure you visualize the image instead of eliminate answers in CDP. For TFE, just find the most obvious parts (maybe a dotted line, a substructure, etc...It's hard to explain, you need to practice to see this) and eliminate the wrong ones. Don't look back and don't visualize in your head if you are slow like me. Just pick an answer that you think it's correct and trust me I got almost perfect on TFE on CDP, using probably only 10 min.
 
tomhrxbfg said:
The real DAT's keyhole may be much harder than CDP...Make sure you visualize the image instead of eliminate answers in CDP. For TFE, just find the most obvious parts (maybe a dotted line, a substructure, etc...It's hard to explain, you need to practice to see this) and eliminate the wrong ones. Don't look back and don't visualize in your head if you are slow like me. Just pick an answer that you think it's correct and trust me I got almost perfect on TFE on CDP, using probably only 10 min.
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Did you use line counting on the DAT? I do try to interpret what the dotted and dashed lines but seriously how the hell are we supposed to do that quickly in 10 minutes?
Everyone in here keeps saying, ohh visualize, visualize but it takes me forever to do that.
 
No don't use line counting, it will fail miserably (experience from previous students). Visualize the part structure, not the whole thing at the same time. And from the substructure you can eliminate some of the wrong answers. Then focus on the leftovers, see what do they have in difference. Often it's like a line or two or a substructure, so you can go back to your 2D and check whether that's present or not.
 
CDP is awful for Keyhole and TFE, the diagrams are nice and help you understand in the beginning but it is too easy compared to the real thing. You need to try achiever for those. Nothing else prepares you well enough for TFE and Keyhole imo. For now, since you're struggling, just keep at CDP and practice. Do Achiever only after you finish CDP and feel like you have a good grasp on things!

Regarding scores, a 15-16 should be avoided. Some schools don't care about PAT, but I would still say just be safe and keep above 17. If you can get a 18-20 that is more than adequate. Google "Wicked Sick PAT tutorial" and read through preDDS blog's strategies.
 
BRZ24 said:
CDP. I am so tired of trying to understand TFE. That is the only section that's killing me. I seriously took my sweet time doing hole punching, cube, and keyholes since those are my best sections. I ended up with a perfect score in hole punching and 10-12 on keyholes, cubes, but I can never get above 10 on TFE.

and my test is soon so you think I should just focus on my best sections for the PAT and hope for the best for TFE? lol

Also, I don't care what dental school I get into except howard and meharry.

I have gpa of 4.0 science and non science(although my prereqs are from cc but my upper level classes are 4.0 so far at the 4 year uni).

thanks.
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You are gonna be fine with a 15-16 PAT then assuming at least a 18-19 AA.
 
It depends. If your doing really well on your science sections then i would focus a bit more time on the PAT section, if not then i would just focus more on the science section as they count towards your academic average. Generally a score of 18-19 is pretty good for the PAT section. Also don't worry if your not doing as good as you want on the practice tests. I used topscore and kept getting 18-20 on the pat section and got a 25 on the actual test.
 
God I am sick of PAT.

getting 53 vs 56 and 57 still gives me a 17 overall

Should I just give up on this section and focus on the other stuff? lol
 
When I first started TFE was my hardest too. But after I understood how to look it became one of the easiest sections.

Try just looking at objects around the house and building a picture of them in your head. Be able to rotate it around and visualize what it would look like from different angles. Once you can do that, start trying to visualize them as Top/Front/End projections.

Start with simple things like a coffee cup. If you look at it straight down, what does the handle look like? If you look at it with the handle on the back, how will the handle appear then? (don't forget about dashed lines and what they mean).

Good luck on your test 🙂
 
If I were you, I would not be shooting for a 15-16PAT on test day, you'll be kissing this app cycle bye-bye
 
MatthewCC said:
When I first started TFE was my hardest too. But after I understood how to look it became one of the easiest sections.

Try just looking at objects around the house and building a picture of them in your head. Be able to rotate it around and visualize what it would look like from different angles. Once you can do that, start trying to visualize them as Top/Front/End projections.

Start with simple things like a coffee cup. If you look at it straight down, what does the handle look like? If you look at it with the handle on the back, how will the handle appear then? (don't forget about dashed lines and what they mean).

Good luck on your test 🙂
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my test is in 3 weeks :scared::scared::scared: and I still have math and reading to study for.
 
Tunaman said:
If I were you, I would not be shooting for a 15-16PAT on test day, you'll be kissing this app cycle bye-bye
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really? Even if i get 20+ AA and TS? and a 4.0 GPA? and even if I don't care what school I get into?
 
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I think some schools do put some weight on this though. Of course, being a URM might help for having a lower score. For the average applicant though, I personally think PAT is an important section because you have to notice subtle differences between similar objects and have an eye for detail. Which is pretty important in dentistry. Of course, some schools may accept some 15-16's I would say that 17+ is a safe bet provided everything else is on par (18+).
 
Three weeks is plenty of time for the PAT.

Make sure you practice it every single day though. And if you re-do test, make sure you are picking an answer because you SEE the answer and not because you are remembering it was the right choice.

You have to spend the mental energy understanding the PAT, it's different from all the other studying you do.
 
BRZ24 said:
God I am sick of PAT.

getting 53 vs 56 and 57 still gives me a 17 overall

Should I just give up on this section and focus on the other stuff? lol
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I've never done the American PAT. But I did the Canadian PAT, which is very similar.
I believe I skipped the pattern folding or keyholes altogether. Picked C for like 20 questions and focused on other parts of the PAT.
I didn't get a good score, just a 19 on PAT. But who knows, just try it and see how well you do.
I think if you get like even 20 wrong you would be in 20 range. But chances are you will get 1/4 of the answers right so 15 wrong isn't that bad.
 
periopocket said:
20+ AA/TS/17 PAT paired with a 4.0 GPA will get you multiple acceptances
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Ok and they'll also wonder why this ***** can't get above a 15-16 while doing well on the rest of the exam. The PAT is a stand-alone score don't forget and is weighed all on its own...this site annoys me sometimes because you have children giving grown advice. a 15-16 is not ok
 
It really depends on the school. Some schools really value it and others could really care less. FYI I got in with a 10 on the PAT so it can be done.
 
trinstudent said:
It really depends on the school. Some schools really value it and others could really care less. FYI I got in with a 10 on the PAT so it can be done.
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What?? You got in with a 10 in PAT? I thought schools have somekind of cutoffs..
Also wondering what school you are attending.....
 
most schools have cut offs of 17 or 16...

a 10 on the pat i call garbage as well. the 1 thing i hate about sdn is...you always get the anomaly or outlier. 99 times out of 100 a 10 on the PAT will keep you out of dental school.
 
theleatherwalle said:
most schools have cut offs of 17 or 16...

a 10 on the pat i call garbage as well. the 1 thing i hate about sdn is...you always get the anomaly or outlier. 99 times out of 100 a 10 on the PAT will keep you out of dental school.
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Absolutely!
 
jhc83 said:
What?? You got in with a 10 in PAT? I thought schools have somekind of cutoffs..
Also wondering what school you are attending.....
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theleatherwalle said:
most schools have cut offs of 17 or 16...

a 10 on the pat i call garbage as well. the 1 thing i hate about sdn is...you always get the anomaly or outlier. 99 times out of 100 a 10 on the PAT will keep you out of dental school.
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I agree, I probably am an anomaly. But my point wasn't that it was normal, just that it is possible to get accepted with a low PAT score. You will need other strong points on the application to offset this. But is that really any different than having a high GPA and low DAT scores? Or mediocre GPA and DAT but many publications? The total application needs to look good, not just any one given section. Plus, each school will weigh criteria differently. Just remember, I've been accepted whether you think this is BS or not.

For the record, I did retake the DAT and scored an 18, but only one school of the ones I interviewed at looked at that DAT test - the others only looked at the test date with the highest AA.
 
trinstudent said:
I agree, I probably am an anomaly. But my point wasn't that it was normal, just that it is possible to get accepted with a low PAT score. You will need other strong points on the application to offset this. But is that really any different than having a high GPA and low DAT scores? Or mediocre GPA and DAT but many publications? The total application needs to look good, not just any one given section. Plus, each school will weigh criteria differently. Just remember, I've been accepted whether you think this is BS or not.

For the record, I did retake the DAT and scored an 18, but only one school of the ones I interviewed at looked at that DAT test - the others only looked at the test date with the highest AA.
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I really don't care. You could be lying about dental school, your pat score, and whatever else.

I am pretty positive that the school likely saw your 18 PAT score. I like how you left that part out though. I'll give you an example of what you did

Poster 1: I've had so much trouble getting into dental school. I only had two acceptances, and I had 25 on my DAT.
Poster 2: What how is that possible
Poster 3: Oh man we're all screwed I only made a 20
Poster 4: did you have a bad interview?
Poster 1: Oh yeah I had 2.0 GPA.

Anyway congrats on your acceptance?

I'm just waiting for someone with a 20 PAT score to come in here and be outraged they are not in dental school. Then 20 people tell them admissions arn't fair.
 
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theleatherwalle said:
I really don't care. You could be lying about dental school, your pat score, and whatever else.

I am pretty positive that the school likely saw your 18 PAT score. I like how you left that part out though. I'll give you an example of what you did

Poster 1: I've had so much trouble getting into dental school. I only had two acceptances, and I had 25 on my DAT.
Poster 2: What how is that possible
Poster 3: Oh man we're all screwed I only made a 20
Poster 4: did you have a bad interview?
Poster 1: Oh yeah I had 2.0 GPA.

Anyway congrats on your acceptance?

I'm just waiting for someone with a 20 PAT score to come in here and be outraged they are not in dental school. Then 20 people tell them admissions arn't fair.
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I can assure you that most did not see the higher PAT score. When one interviewer asked why my PAT was so low I also told him I did a retake. He wanted to know why it wasn't in my application. Like I said, there were other areas of my application that stood out. The PAT has not been shown to have any correlation to any area of dental schools success, which is why there is varying emphasis placed on it.

Once again, to anyone with a low PAT score reading this thread: don't be discouraged, but you need to be realistic and realize you need to offset the lower score somewhere else.
 
trinstudent said:
I can assure you that most did not see the higher PAT score. When one interviewer asked why my PAT was so low I also told him I did a retake. He wanted to know why it wasn't in my application. Like I said, there were other areas of my application that stood out. The PAT has not been shown to have any correlation to any area of dental schools success, which is why there is varying emphasis placed on it.

Once again, to anyone with a low PAT score reading this thread: don't be discouraged, but you need to be realistic and realize you need to offset the lower score somewhere else.
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I'm just curious as to what specifically was good enough to overcome a 10 on the PAT. Overcoming a 15-16 is one thing, but a 10 is very low.
 
I agree about the PAT.

I remember reading the ADA report on DAT and GPA

DAT had a highest correlation to first year dental school gpa and ndbe 1
Sci gpa had a highest correlation to second year dental school gpa
PAT I believe had none. I believe some schools give their own dexterity test during interviews if i remember correctly.
 
b0110 said:
I'm just curious as to what specifically was good enough to overcome a 10 on the PAT. Overcoming a 15-16 is one thing, but a 10 is very low.
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I'm not so sure if it was any one thing as much as a well-rounded application. 21 AA, multiple research projects and publications, athletics participation, a family history of dentistry and good interviews.
 
trinstudent said:
I'm not so sure if it was any one thing as much as a well-rounded application. 21 AA, multiple research projects and publications, athletics participation, a family history of dentistry and good interviews.
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I highlighted the parts that prolly helped you the most.

Family history or being a legacy is pretty important at some schools.

Its pretty hard to trump a good DAT score.

A good interview is worth so much. People skills are vital in any job field you go into.
 
theleatherwalle said:
I highlighted the parts that prolly helped you the most.

Family history or being a legacy is pretty important at some schools.

Its pretty hard to trump a good DAT score.

A good interview is worth so much. People skills are vital in any job field you go into.
Click to expand...

Yep. Your application gets you the interview, but the interview gets you the acceptance.
 
Math is the only section that doesn't matter. PAT is crucial for some schools, and I doubt any school will take you with less than a 16. If they do, that's a sham. I know several individuals who were not accepted b/c of their PAT score. However, it does depend on the school. Also, despite your grades, you better change your work ethic and get your focus straight if you plan to do well in dental school/become a competent practitioner.
 
BRZ24 said:
Does it make a difference if you make a 15-16 on the PAT versus 19-20?

the PAT score doesn't get counted into the AA right? I am taking my test soon and was wondering if I should just focus more on the sciences or spend some time with this PAT. I keep getting 17-18 on the practice test.

thanks.
Click to expand...
You have mediocrity written all over you.
 
BRZ24 said:
I can guarantee that I won't get a 12 lmao.
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Why don't you make a guarantee that you can get at least a 19, instead?

Then all you have to do is put in the work to prove yourself right. It's doable... really.
 
diasIItema said:
Math is the only section that doesn't matter. PAT is crucial for some schools, and I doubt any school will take you with less than a 16. If they do, that's a sham. I know several individuals who were not accepted b/c of their PAT score. However, it does depend on the school. Also, despite your grades, you better change your work ethic and get your focus straight if you plan to do well in dental school/become a competent practitioner.
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double like👍👍
 
I got a 26 on my PAT section and honestly dont think there is that much of a difference between that and a 20-21 so dont think that if you get a 16-17 on the PAT then you have no shot. In fact a lot of schools don't even really care about the PAT. To the OP if you get a 16-17 on the PAT but a 20+ on the DAT then i think you should be fine. If you do get an interview then schools will probably ask you why you got a low grade on PAT but i dont think a low PAT score will be the deciding factor if you get in or not. You should just focus on the other sections to make sure you will get a 20+ TS on the DAT.
 
BRZ24 said:
Reading your posts kind of pisses me off. Anyways I got an 18 on the PAT.
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Not bad at all, I dont really know what the PAT is weighted by the adcom's. I dont know if they really care too much other then maybe how they have a cutoff for minimum section scores...and for that, an 18 would clearly make the cut.
 
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a 10 score on the PAT means u got 15/90 correct. damn, why did u do so badly ? did u know the directions for the PAT ?
 
I read a thread a few weeks ago about a girl who had a 3.7 GPA and a 19/18/14 PAT. She asked if she had a chance but almost everyone told her to retake because of her PAT. Now she is sitting with 5-6 interviews. Yes she is a URM but flat out saying that she got no chance because of 1 single score is ridiculous. SDN people need to get in touch with reality.
 
BRZ24 said:
I read a thread a few weeks ago about a girl who had a 3.7 GPA and a 19/18/14 PAT. She asked if she had a chance but almost everyone told her to retake because of her PAT. Now she is sitting with 5-6 interviews. Yes she is a URM but flat out saying that she got no chance because of 1 single score is ridiculous. SDN people need to get in touch with reality.
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People on SDN can get carried away sometimes, but their just being honest, realistic, and trying to hedge the risk of waiting another year.

Having a low PA score will likely not look good on your application but getting interview CAN happen (anything can happen). Just probability speaking, it's likely not to.

Also, I think the fact that the fact that the girl is URM played a huge factor in her multiple interviews.
 
Last edited:
BRZ24 said:
I read a thread a few weeks ago about a girl who had a 3.7 GPA and a 19/18/14 PAT. She asked if she had a chance but almost everyone told her to retake because of her PAT. Now she is sitting with 5-6 interviews. Yes she is a URM but flat out saying that she got no chance because of 1 single score is ridiculous. SDN people need to get in touch with reality.
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BRZ24 I go on SDN and just kinda look around to see what the pre dent world has to say and I see quite a bit of posts by you and I LOVE them. I hope we go to the same dental school! You always put people in check on this website, there are like 10 user names that i always seenin every thread and those 10 people always say "retake, your not getting in, ect" I saw your DAT fail and dude....you didn't fail. 19/19/18 is solid. Idc what people say you will be fine. I am in the same boat as you, 18/19/23 and I know I will get ripped a part if and told to retake but people get in with your stats and my stats. So all in all keep it up and tell these dorks to pack sand! Hahaha👍
 
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