Is it possible to be happy working 60-70 hours per week?

[acidbase1]

Seems like everyday is Groundhog Day. Wake up at 545, get to the OR and literally go nonstop until 1700-1800. (I’m happy to take my morning dump and a piss or two. If I’m lucky I get a trauma sandwich). Go home, do dictations chill for an hour then do it all over again. Feel shell shocked until about Saturday night get through Sunday and start all over again on monday. (If I’m lucky enough not to be on call)

Granted I haven’t had much vacation and just finished orals a couple weeks ago, but I was somewhat hoping life would slow down a bit after residency. Things are great personally and professionally, it just never stops.

Clearly I picked a gig that pays more bc I’m fresh out and need to get caught up financially... which begs the question, can you work this much and lead a happy life?

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[anbuitachi]

Seems like everyday is Groundhog Day. Wake up at 545, get to the OR and literally go nonstop until 1700-1800. (I’m happy to take my morning dump and a piss or two. If I’m lucky I get a trauma sandwich). Go home, do dictations chill for an hour then do it all over again. Feel shell shocked until about Saturday night get through Sunday and start all over again on monday. (If I’m lucky enough not to be on call)

Granted I haven’t had much vacation and just finished orals a couple weeks ago, but I was somewhat hoping life would slow down a bit after residency. Things are great personally and professionally, it just never stops.

Clearly I picked a gig that pays more bc I’m fresh out and need to get caught up financially... which begs the question, can you work this much and lead a happy life?

Pretty sure different things make different people happy. Some people enjoy being in pain.

What are you dictating..?

 

[chocomorsel]

Seems like everyday is Groundhog Day. Wake up at 545, get to the OR and literally go nonstop until 1700-1800. (I’m happy to take my morning dump and a piss or two. If I’m lucky I get a trauma sandwich). Go home, do dictations chill for an hour then do it all over again. Feel shell shocked until about Saturday night get through Sunday and start all over again on monday. (If I’m lucky enough not to be on call)

Granted I haven’t had much vacation and just finished orals a couple weeks ago, but I was somewhat hoping life would slow down a bit after residency. Things are great personally and professionally, it just never stops.

Clearly I picked a gig that pays more bc I’m fresh out and need to get caught up financially... which begs the question, can you work this much and lead a happy life?

Some people do. But it leads to burnout, divorce, kids who hate you, etc, blah blah blah. Of course kids can hate you regardless, but still. Depends on what's important to you. I was out west where I saw lots of this kind of work because of the lack of CRNAs and docs have to really work hard to make money. I did it for 2 years and quit, then went locums and now work like half time. Make less money, but I am much happier. Getting ready to do fellowship and looking for a 7/7 position where I have 26 weeks off/on a year or the equivalent of 42-44 hours a week worked. We shall see how long it takes to burn out.

What kind of anesthesiologist are you doing dictations? Pain?

 

[anbuitachi]

Some people do. But it leads to burnout, divorce, kids who hate you, etc, blah blah blah. Of course kids can hate you regardless, but still. Depends on what's important to you. I was out west where I saw lots of this kind of work because of the lack of CRNAs and docs have to really work hard to make money. I did it for 2 years and quit, then went locums and now work like half time. Make less money, but I am much happier. Getting ready to do fellowship and looking for a 7/7 position where I have 26 weeks off/on a year or the equivalent of 42-44 hours a week worked. We shall see how long it takes to burn out.

What kind of anesthesiologist are you doing dictations? Pain?

Dont you feel sads that you work ~ CRNA hours and you barely make more than them

 

[acidbase1]

I’m dictating pain procedures. I sit cases in the am and do pain in the afternoon. It’s been quite an undertaking. Living the delayed gratification of medicine dream

 

[acidbase1]

Dont you feel sads that you work ~ CRNA hours and you barely make more than them

I make ALOT more than CRNAs. I sign their paychecks

 

[anbuitachi]

I make ALOT more than CRNAs. I sign their paychecks

Oh i meant that guy up there who works 40 hr a week or so. I'm sure you make a lot more than CRNAs with the hours you put in haha.

 

[chocomorsel]

Dont you feel sads that you work ~ CRNA hours and you barely make more than them

For the hours worked now, I make way more than them on average. But even when I didn't, I really didn't care. Because I can't change it. I was just worried about paying my bills and saving for retirement and having some extra fun/travel money.

Ehh, can't worry about what they are making. I am content.

 

[chocomorsel]

Oh i meant that guy up there who works 40 hr a week or so. I'm sure you make a lot more than CRNAs with the hours you put in haha.

I work half time. 45 to 50 hours a week 2 weeks a month.

I am talking about the future when I do CCM. I will be then 7on 7off. And making a hell of a lot more than the average CRNA.

 

[acidbase1]

Some people do. But it leads to burnout, divorce, kids who hate you, etc, blah blah blah. Of course kids can hate you regardless, but still. Depends on what's important to you. I was out west where I saw lots of this kind of work because of the lack of CRNAs and docs have to really work hard to make money. I did it for 2 years and quit, then went locums and now work like half time. Make less money, but I am much happier. Getting ready to do fellowship and looking for a 7/7 position where I have 26 weeks off/on a year or the equivalent of 42-44 hours a week worked. We shall see how long it takes to burn out.

What kind of anesthesiologist are you doing dictations? Pain?

What fellowship?

 

[Noyac]

Wow I can’t believe some of the jobs people take out there. Well, I guess I can since I took a similar job for the first three years of my career. Actually, it was almost exactly like yours. I did hearts till about 2pm or so then ran down to the pain clinic to do anywhere from 5-10 procedures then ran either back to the OR to relieve one of the older partners or off to a surgery center to finish up the schedule. I’d get home after 5pm everyday. Hang out with the wife and friends, usually pretty late and get up and start all over. I was burning the candle at both ends but I was young. And I wasn’t making any money either. Crna type money. But the experience was off the charts and I smoked my orals because of it. Actually had an elective AAA case the week before orals. Went to the exam and that was the case I got. Bam,done. That’s all you academics got for me? Next case was tougher but still a piece of cake because of my practice gig. So I figured out what made me happy pretty early and I went out and found it. But I wouldn’t be half the anesthesiologist I am now if I hadn’t joined that first group.

However, my current gig pays above MGMA median and that’s with more than 8 weeks of vacation to everyone. Even the new grads that join the group get the same deal. This is for 40 - 65 hrs/week. I’m am ballparking these numbers since there is no way I will state exact numbers here, so don’t ask.

So my advice is to gain as much experience as you can and while doing this, figure out what your priorities are. If those priorities are not accessible at your current gig then begin the search. Do not be afraid to move. Do not get strapped by income. Do not be afraid to try something and if it doesn’t work out move on.

 

[acidbase1]

Back to the original question tho, has anyone worked 70 hours/week and been content with life?

 

[pgg]

Dont you feel sads that you work ~ CRNA hours and you barely make more than them

With few exceptions people get paid according to market forces, not what they deserve.

There are millions of people in the world who are less useful, deserving, handsome, and witty than I am, yet they make lots more money. I suppose some of the ones who aren't hotel chain heiresses or oil sheikhs might be CRNAs. It's OK. My happiness doesn't depend on others' fortune.

Back to the original question tho, has anyone worked 70 hours/week and been content with life?

When it was with a specific goal and end date in mind, with something better to follow, yes. I was content with those hours in fellowship, but I would never make a career out of living like that.

70 hours/week as your life & career isn't winning if it doesn't ease up until retirement. Unless it's a really, really early retirement.

 

[spacegun]

I work half time. 45 to 50 hours a week 2 weeks a month.

I am talking about the future when I do CCM. I will be then 7on 7off. And making a hell of a lot more than the average CRNA.

Why CCM, not anesthesia? For life and work balance, I thought you can get a better life and work balance with anesthesia? Sincerely curious. Thanks.

 

[deleted162650]

Wow I can’t believe some of the jobs people take out there. Well, I guess I can since I took a similar job for the first three years of my career. Actually, it was almost exactly like yours. I did hearts till about 2pm or so then ran down to the pain clinic to do anywhere from 5-10 procedures then ran either back to the OR to relieve one of the older partners or off to a surgery center to finish up the schedule. I’d get home after 5pm everyday. Hang out with the wife and friends, usually pretty late and get up and start all over. I was burning the candle at both ends but I was young. And I wasn’t making any money either. Crna type money. But the experience was off the charts and I smoked my orals because of it. Actually had an elective AAA case the week before orals. Went to the exam and that was the case I got. Bam,done. That’s all you academics got for me? Next case was tougher but still a piece of cake because of my practice gig. So I figured out what made me happy pretty early and I went out and found it. But I wouldn’t be half the anesthesiologist I am now if I hadn’t joined that first group.

However, my current gig pays above MGMA median and that’s with more than 8 weeks of vacation to everyone. Even the new grads that join the group get the same deal. This is for 40 - 65 hrs/week. I’m am ballparking these numbers since there is no way I will state exact numbers here, so don’t ask.

So my advice is to gain as much experience as you can and while doing this, figure out what your priorities are. If those priorities are not accessible at your current gig then begin the search. Do not be afraid to move. Do not get strapped by income. Do not be afraid to try something and if it doesn’t work out move on.

Dude, if I can manage to get outta CA once my kids are bit older you got a spot for me?

 

[waterhammer]

 

[epidural man]

Wow I can’t believe some of the jobs people take out there. Well, I guess I can since I took a similar job for the first three years of my career. Actually, it was almost exactly like yours. I did hearts till about 2pm or so then ran down to the pain clinic to do anywhere from 5-10 procedures then ran either back to the OR to relieve one of the older partners or off to a surgery center to finish up the schedule. I’d get home after 5pm everyday. Hang out with the wife and friends, usually pretty late and get up and start all over. I was burning the candle at both ends but I was young. And I wasn’t making any money either. Crna type money. But the experience was off the charts and I smoked my orals because of it. Actually had an elective AAA case the week before orals. Went to the exam and that was the case I got. Bam,done. That’s all you academics got for me? Next case was tougher but still a piece of cake because of my practice gig. So I figured out what made me happy pretty early and I went out and found it. But I wouldn’t be half the anesthesiologist I am now if I hadn’t joined that first group.

However, my current gig pays above MGMA median and that’s with more than 8 weeks of vacation to everyone. Even the new grads that join the group get the same deal. This is for 40 - 65 hrs/week. I’m am ballparking these numbers since there is no way I will state exact numbers here, so don’t ask.

So my advice is to gain as much experience as you can and while doing this, figure out what your priorities are. If those priorities are not accessible at your current gig then begin the search. Do not be afraid to move. Do not get strapped by income. Do not be afraid to try something and if it doesn’t work out move on.

Hiring anytime soon?

 

[epidural man]

Can someone work 70 hrs and be happy?

I probably could if I was working as a musician in a band.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

However, my current gig pays above MGMA median and that’s with more than 8 weeks of vacation to everyone. Even the new grads that join the group get the same deal. This is for 40 - 65 hrs/week.

The MGMA data is based on 9 weeks vacation.

 

[abolt18]

My goal is to work exceptionally hard the first few years out of residency. Pay off all my debt and save for retirement. Then my dream would be to get a 30hr/wk gig where I'm home by 2 every day, with plenty of vacation. I can handle the pay cut in exchange for the time to live my life as I see fit. I want to pick my kids up from school every day, have time for hobbies and travel, and just earn enough to support a pretty low profile lifestyle. I work to live, not the inverse. I never felt the "calling" to medicine, but I do enjoy it. I just enjoy it more when I do a lot less of it.

 

[chocomorsel]

Why CCM, not anesthesia? For life and work balance, I thought you can get a better life and work balance with anesthesia? Sincerely curious. Thanks.

Always wanted to do CCM. It’s what got me into anesthesia in the first place. And I am hating the often toxic and usually fast pace of the OR.

 

[Consigliere]

Back to the original question tho, has anyone worked 70 hours/week and been content with life?

No

 

[GravelRider]

I don’t believe you can work those kinds of hours in medicine nowadays without some kind of consequences to your personal life...unless you are making a ton of money and plan on a very early retirement. But then what is the point of delaying enjoyment even more if you can get hit by a bus tomorrow? You still need to find balance for the here and now.

The only people who can “work” those kinds of hours (or more) are usually people who are creating something like art or a business because they have a passion for the work. I don’t think you can find that kind of passion for medicine nowadays with the bureaucracy, clipboard army lurking around every corner, and the productivity pressure. For all of the cr@p that millenials get, the one thing they get right is that there is more to life than working for someone else. I think we are going to see a lot less 30+ year careers in medicine in the future and pressure on physician employers to offer more lifestyle options.

 

[Notorious T.E.E.]

No

Unless your happiness is nearly completely derived from working/making money, or it is a short term situation, I think the answer in no. Considering you're asking the question, I assume you aren't happy. Hopefully, passing your orals will free up some more time and give you a better life. If not, look for a new and better job. The situation you are describing isn't uncommon, but there are a lot of alternatives.

 

[anes121508]

I feel lucky that I found something I really love doing. However, I’d always rather be hanging out with my wife, playing with my daughter, or having a beer with a buddy watching college football than helping guide a mitraclip. I love work but I’ll always love other things more.

So for me the question is: can I work 65-70hrs a week and still fit it all in? Doable maybe....by burning the candle at both ends, but most likely not sustainable long term.

Medical school: no wife no kids, no problem squeezing time in for friends.

Residency: wife and friends...little bit tougher finding time for everything, but doable.

Fellowship: wife, kid, friends and probably more work than residency...that lead to me being not quite my best self at the end of a year.

Attending: dialed it back, took less $$, I don’t do 100% crazy cardiac cases like I envisioned...but my 40-45hr weeks keep time for things I love even more than a nice 3-D mitral with degenerative diseas. Happy now and don’t feel like I’m going to burn out.

I guess my point is that the correlation to amount of hours you work and happiness depends on where your priorities lie and what phase of life you are in. Everybody is probably a little different in terms of what’s doable and tolerable.

 

[Twiggidy]

Dont you feel sads that you work ~ CRNA hours and you barely make more than them

nah....probably happy as hell to be home enjoying her life making 6 figures

 

[Twiggidy]

Why CCM, not anesthesia? For life and work balance, I thought you can get a better life and work balance with anesthesia? Sincerely curious. Thanks.

Critical care can sometimes be a happy medium of being an anesthesiologist but not dealing with OR BS.

 

[Twiggidy]

My goal is to work exceptionally hard the first few years out of residency. Pay off all my debt and save for retirement. Then my dream would be to get a 30hr/wk gig where I'm home by 2 every day, with plenty of vacation. I can handle the pay cut in exchange for the time to live my life as I see fit. I want to pick my kids up from school every day, have time for hobbies and travel, and just earn enough to support a pretty low profile lifestyle. I work to live, not the inverse. I never felt the "calling" to medicine, but I do enjoy it. I just enjoy it more when I do a lot less of it.

this is real talk

 

[chocomorsel]

nah....probably happy as hell to be home enjoying her life making 6 figures

This. I spend way more time with my family which is very important to me. I am not missing events any more and for me, home is where the heart is. I can make it work on about 200k pretty easily (no children), altho I help out my parents quite a bit, but I am quite frugal. Decent house, decent car, nothing fancy, travel occasionally, but much less stress and anger. On my off weeks I get up late and can lay around in my PJs all day if I want with occasional errands, work out, enjoy sunshine and gardening.

I don't see myself getting rich anytime soon, but I do see myself really traveling/saving more next year when I am doing the 7 on/7off shifts which then will be full time.

 

[ZzzPlz]

I’m about three years out. I’m one of four partners and we employ 15 or so crnas. We cover a hospital and adjoining surgery center. I probably average 60-65 hours per week I work (I count home call as hours worked which inflates this average quite a bit). We get 13 weeks off a year. ~90% MGMA.

I really like our schedule with the frequent vacation which balances nicely with the q4 call. The only part of the job that is rough for me is the q4 weekend call. Friday morning until Monday is a tough stretch. Otherwise we get done early on non call days usually and really early post call so it balances out nicely. The fact that I always am looking forward to a 9.5 day stretch of vacation every 4th week makes it tolerable when call nights are rough.

My wife stays home so this is a very do-able schedule, even with small kids. The only time I feel a little burned out is after a bad weekend.

There is another young partner in my group and we’ve discussed splitting a full time position at some point in the future—maybe when we are in our mid 40’s or early 50’s. That would be sweet to work three weeks then get 5 weeks off on a rotation and still bring home over 300.

But for now I’m not planning on changing a thing. With our s Corp I’m able to put buku bucks into retirement each year and will probably have the coveted FU money to go part time or change jobs if I want by my mid 40s.

Long story short, yes, I think working long hours is sustainable in the right practice and with the right perks, like vacation, good retirement benefits, assuming you have the right family dynamics

 

[Twiggidy]

I’m about three years out. I’m one of four partners and we employ 15 or so crnas. We cover a hospital and adjoining surgery center. I probably average 60-65 hours per week I work (I count home call as hours worked which inflates this average quite a bit). We get 13 weeks off a year. ~90% MGMA.

I really like our schedule with the frequent vacation which balances nicely with the q4 call. The only part of the job that is rough for me is the q4 weekend call. Friday morning until Monday is a tough stretch. Otherwise we get done early on non call days usually and really early post call so it balances out nicely. The fact that I always am looking forward to a 9.5 day stretch of vacation every 4th week makes it tolerable when call nights are rough.

My wife stays home so this is a very do-able schedule, even with small kids. The only time I feel a little burned out is after a bad weekend.

There is another young partner in my group and we’ve discussed splitting a full time position at some point in the future—maybe when we are in our mid 40’s or early 50’s. That would be sweet to work three weeks then get 5 weeks off on a rotation and still bring home over 300.

But for now I’m not planning on changing a thing. With our s Corp I’m able to put buku bucks into retirement each year and will probably have the coveted FU money to go part time or change jobs if I want by my mid 40s.

Long story short, yes, I think working long hours is sustainable in the right practice and with the right perks, like vacation, good retirement benefits, assuming you have the right family dynamics

I think working long hours is fine because there are a lot of jobs in a lot fields that work long hour. It's when you're working 70hrs a week like a RESIDENT is when it is killer. I think most of us can say when can tolerate the long hours as long as we're at home at night and on the weekends with our family and friends. It's when we're taking q4 and q3 call and entire weekend call. That's when most of us start thinking "f this shyte". I agree. What I'm doing now won't be sustainable in my 50s. I'm grinding right now for the next 5-10 years until I'm in a similar "F U" situation. Currently the decision of kids is plaguing my household which I worry may add 20 years of work in an area where it's not easy to bounce from job to job to find the right gig. As a brother man who grew up without his dad, I want to be there for my kid, not taking in house call 2 days a week and missing weekend activities. I know it can be done, but that's just a personal thing with me.

 

[deleted162650]

Currently the decision of kids is plaguing my household which I worry may add 20 years of work in an area where it's not easy to bounce from job to job to find the right gig.

Don’t do it!

But if you must, can I interest you in one or two of my 3? They come with all their shots.

 

[Twiggidy]

Don’t do it!

But if you must, can I interest you in one or two of my 3. They come with all their shots.

What's the return policy and do they come with any kind of warranty?

 

[deleted162650]

What's the return policy and do they come with any kind of warranty?

Sorry, sold “as is” but that’s reflected in the price.

 

[Psai]

Sorry, sold “as is” but that’s reflected in the price.

"Like new" or "used"?

 

[Southpaw]

To answer the question, no it’s not possible. Life’s too short to spend all of your time working. Develop some hobbies. Travel. Spend time with friends and family.

 

[Noyac]

Back to the original question tho, has anyone worked 70 hours/week and been content with life?

Yes.
But it depends on the nature of that work as much as the hours.

 

[Noyac]

Dude, if I can manage to get outta CA once my kids are bit older you got a spot for me?

If I am still in charge then we can talk. Lots of thing can change in a short time. But I would love to torture you day in and day out after all the crap you give me.

 

[Noyac]

The MGMA data is based on 9 weeks vacation.

I won’t state what my pay or vacation is on a public site. Suffice it to say, I am very happy.

 

[Noyac]

Always wanted to do CCM. It’s what got me into anesthesia in the first place. And I am hating the often toxic and usually fast pace of the OR.

Maybe you are in the wrong OR’s.
CCM is my kind of medicine as well. Faster pace and higher acuity. I can’t imagine the slow medicine of primary care.

 

[deleted162650]

Nobody lies on their death bed and says “Damnit - I really wish I woulda worked more!”

 

[mymembernames]

Quick question, is Gas flexible like EM where you can do shift work?

 

[Dr.whom]

Quick question, is Gas flexible like EM where you can do shift work?

Yes

 

[mymembernames]

Yes

Thanks, can you please explain what shift-work options are like for Gas?

 

[Dr.whom]

Well, we can hand off all our patients quickly and leave the hospital and don’t have to worry too much else about the cases most of the time. This makes anesthesia ideal for shift work. However, we don’t need as much manpower at night as Emergency Medicine so we don’t usually feel the need for much shift work.

 

[Twiggidy]

Thanks, can you please explain what shift-work options are like for Gas?

Mind you....those type of situations are a rarity when it comes to full time work. if you do locums you have a little more control over your schedule

 

[skypilot]

I think working long hours is fine because there are a lot of jobs in a lot fields that work long hour. It's when you're working 70hrs a week like a RESIDENT is when it is killer. I think most of us can say when can tolerate the long hours as long as we're at home at night and on the weekends with our family and friends. It's when we're taking q4 and q3 call and entire weekend call. That's when most of us start thinking "f this shyte". I agree. What I'm doing now won't be sustainable in my 50s. I'm grinding right now for the next 5-10 years until I'm in a similar "F U" situation. Currently the decision of kids is plaguing my household which I worry may add 20 years of work in an area where it's not easy to bounce from job to job to find the right gig. As a brother man who grew up without his dad, I want to be there for my kid, not taking in house call 2 days a week and missing weekend activities. I know it can be done, but that's just a personal thing with me.

You can do it! You just need to modify your career. Find a job where you can live very close to work. 10 minute commute maximum. Be willing to take a little less money to take less call. Maybe Q6 or Q7 (or less). Live in a less expensive house and drive a less expensive car and try to live in an area where you can keep your kids in public school. Probably not in everybody's favorite cities. Maybe in some less popular, secondary cities or suburbs. You will have plenty of time for your kids and plenty of money to live a good life.

 

[PainDrain]

I have only been out for 5 years but I am constantly torn between taking that job in BFN/flyover country to make a killing for five years or to stay where I am to make a little less. Right now I have a nice work balance, pay is decent for the area, call is easy but the vacation isn’t great. I have a mountain of debt that is likely to take another 7-8 years to pay off and if I took that job in flyover country then I could likely pay it off in half the time, but I honestly would not be enjoying my life for 5+ years. Some days I say “go for it” and other days I walk out of work and feel satisfied. Is 60-70 hours a week sustainable for a while? Sure. But I have been thinking about this issue in this way, every day I see people diagnosed with horrible diseases or people who have random terrible things happen to them. That could happen to any of us at any time. It’s obvious that the chances increase with age so maybe stop and smell the roses.

 

[dhb]

can you work this much and lead a happy life

 

[acidbase1]

I have only been out for 5 years but I am constantly torn between taking that job in BFN/flyover country to make a killing for five years or to stay where I am to make a little less. Right now I have a nice work balance, pay is decent for the area, call is easy but the vacation isn’t great. I have a mountain of debt that is likely to take another 7-8 years to pay off and if I took that job in flyover country then I could likely pay it off in half the time, but I honestly would not be enjoying my life for 5+ years. Some days I say “go for it” and other days I walk out of work and feel satisfied. Is 60-70 hours a week sustainable for a while? Sure. But I have been thinking about this issue in this way, every day I see people diagnosed with horrible diseases or people who have random terrible things happen to them. That could happen to any of us at any time. It’s obvious that the chances increase with age so maybe stop and smell the roses.

Define making a killing? What’s your number?