Is it possible to be happy working 60-70 hours per week?

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I have put in weeks that are 90 hours (home call/ overnight call included).

Not sustainable for my entire career. That is for sure. Plan is to cut back significantly in the next 5 years.

I’m relatively young and have always had a work hard/play hard mentality.

BFE, helped me out during my early career. That being said, I could never go back.

You reap what you sow.

There is no way around that.

For most of us, sacrifices are made along the way.

Anesthesia will get you what you need and then some.

A good life long plan can help you attain what you want.
 
acidbase1 said:
Define making a killing? What’s your number?
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There are jobs where I could probably make 500-600K, which is a lot more than I make now. It’s all relative I guess because the partners at some old practices make more than that but those jobs are scarce these days. It’s just a matter of living someplace that doesn’t appeal to me in any way. If I was single I would probably do it in a heartbeat; no point in being miserable and making your loved ones miserable though. Also if I was single I could probably retire on what I currently make somewhere around 50-55 but have to think about kids, college and all the rest.
 
PainDrain said:
I have only been out for 5 years but I am constantly torn between taking that job in BFN/flyover country to make a killing for five years or to stay where I am to make a little less. Right now I have a nice work balance, pay is decent for the area, call is easy but the vacation isn’t great. I have a mountain of debt that is likely to take another 7-8 years to pay off and if I took that job in flyover country then I could likely pay it off in half the time, but I honestly would not be enjoying my life for 5+ years. Some days I say “go for it” and other days I walk out of work and feel satisfied. Is 60-70 hours a week sustainable for a while? Sure. But I have been thinking about this issue in this way, every day I see people diagnosed with horrible diseases or people who have random terrible things happen to them. That could happen to any of us at any time. It’s obvious that the chances increase with age so maybe stop and smell the roses.
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If you have been out 5 years, why do you still have a “mountain of debt”?
 
PainDrain said:
There are jobs where I could probably make 500-600K, which is a lot more than I make now. It’s all relative I guess because the partners at some old practices make more than that but those jobs are scarce these days. It’s just a matter of living someplace that doesn’t appeal to me in any way. If I was single I would probably do it in a heartbeat; no point in being miserable and making your loved ones miserable though. Also if I was single I could probably retire on what I currently make somewhere around 50-55 but have to think about kids, college and all the rest.
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I’m doing it right now. It’s not as bad as you think
 
ERRES2288 said:
If you have been out 5 years, why do you still have a “mountain of debt”?
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I am lucky enough to have no undergrad debt but my med school was extremely expensive. My wife also has a graduate degree which we are paying for. I wasn’t lucky enough to get into a cheap state school or get help from family. I had three options: join the military (NFW), choose another career or take out loans. We are paying things off as fast as possible but it’s not as easy as white coat investor makes it seem. For instance, I drive a car that’s paid for and is cheap to operate, my wife has a cheap car loan, we rarely eat out, no golf memberships or other extravagant expenses and don’t travel except to see family and those are usually car trips. Houses in our area are expensive but we chose to live in a mid range house and avoided the more expensive towns. We have four months mortgage and a months salary saved; had a lot more but we threw toward loans.
 
Yeah, it's starting to hit me that I'll probably still have to work crazy hours for some years after residency just to get myself out of debt. This delayed gratification thing is starting to seem like a life mantra for me.
 
DeadSpace said:
Yeah, it's starting to hit me that I'll probably still have to work crazy hours for some years after residency just to get myself out of debt. This delayed gratification thing is starting to seem like a life mantra for me.
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Seems as if this is medicine in a nutshell. Some time in my 50s I’ll hit the “good life”. Until then, keep grinding
 
nolagas said:
Paying off debt aggressively isn’t the best move if your interest rates are low.
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All about personal preference. For some people, the security of being debt free is worth far more than leveraging low interest loans in exchange for a NOT guaranteed (though, hoped for) higher return on investments. Everyone's just got to figure out the right answer for their own situation.
 
nolagas said:
Paying off debt aggressively isn’t the best move if your interest rates are low.
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My feeling is this. If you are thinking of a general return of 8-10% in the market based in historical returns but have say 400K at 6% on a repayment plan of 25-30 years and a job paying 280-290K and the possibility of salaries staying the same or even declining as mid-levels gain more independence, which is truly the better option? I personally fear still having a massive amount of debt and then having the government (single payer) and/or the CRNA lobby pull the rug out from under me and having to live on 150k per year while still making those loan payments. It’s a worst case scenario but I could still thrive on that 150k per year if I was debt free. If I pay off my debt aggressively I can save 100K or more per year, this is outside my 401K and Roth IRA. Maybe I am not thinking correctly on this, if so please educate me.
 
acidbase1 said:
Seems as if this is medicine in a nutshell. Some time in my 50s I’ll hit the “good life”. Until then, keep grinding
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I realized recently that if you are a physician age 40 or younger you are of the “working class generation”. We are no longer the cream of the crop, we are working stiffs like everyone else. The older guys who bought into big money practices or those who went into big money specialties still make a killing but these days it’s a smaller piece of the pie for the young guys.
 
Work as hard as you can for the most amount of money possible for the first 10 years out. Save, Invest and live modestly. Pay off all debt then begin to cut back on hours or find a better "lifestyle" job. Your ability to work 60+ hours after age 50 may not be realistic. The focus should be on FIRE even if you never actually decide to retire early.

Home - Physician on FIRE

Why $10 Million?
 
PainDrain said:
My feeling is this. If you are thinking of a general return of 8-10% in the market based in historical returns but have say 400K at 6% on a repayment plan of 25-30 years and a job paying 280-290K and the possibility of salaries staying the same or even declining as mid-levels gain more independence, which is truly the better option? I personally fear still having a massive amount of debt and then having the government (single payer) and/or the CRNA lobby pull the rug out from under me and having to live on 150k per year while still making those loan payments. It’s a worst case scenario but I could still thrive on that 150k per year if I was debt free. If I pay off my debt aggressively I can save 100K or more per year, this is outside my 401K and Roth IRA. Maybe I am not thinking correctly on this, if so please educate me.
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This decision depends very much on the interest rate on your loans.

I’d say future income decreases are irrelevant to the decision. If you invest rather than paying off low-interest debt, you can always pay off the debt at a later date with the extra invested money, most likely with money left over from investment returns. There’s no guarantee of course and the decision has to consider your investment discipline (vs wasting the money), likely risk-adjusted returns, tax implications, etc.

I’d love for my debt to be paid off and everything but I’m way ahead of where I would be if I had put a greater percentage of my income into paying off my student loans. Of course my interest rate is very low so the decision to pay close to the minimum is easy. As your student loan interest rate goes up, it gets riskier and more stressful.
 
nolagas said:
This decision depends very much on the interest rate on your loans.

I’d say future income decreases are irrelevant to the decision. If you invest rather than paying off low-interest debt, you can always pay off the debt at a later date with the extra invested money, most likely with money left over from investment returns. There’s no guarantee of course and the decision has to consider your investment discipline (vs wasting the money), likely risk-adjusted returns, tax implications, etc.

I’d love for my debt to be paid off and everything but I’m way ahead of where I would be if I had put a greater percentage of my income into paying off my student loans. Of course my interest rate is very low so the decision to pay close to the minimum is easy. As your student loan interest rate goes up, it gets riskier and more stressful.
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i view it as giving yourself the ability to have options. if you can be debt free by 50 (or even mid 40s) then it gives you options regarding your career. if you don't have to worry about a mortgage or school loans then it can be less of a thought to work part time or take no call. Whereas if you're still stuck in debt, sure you may have a solid investment nest egg, but you'll always know you have to work full time to pay down your debts. It's probably the only part of "Rich Dad" that I buy into, that is, financial freedom.
 
Twiggidy said:
i view it as giving yourself the ability to have options. if you can be debt free by 50 (or even mid 40s) then it gives you options regarding your career. if you don't have to worry about a mortgage or school loans then it can be less of a thought to work part time or take no call. Whereas if you're still stuck in debt, sure you may have a solid investment nest egg, but you'll always know you have to work full time to pay down your debts. It's probably the only part of "Rich Dad" that I buy into, that is, financial freedom.
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It's threads like this that make me glad I joined the Army. Yes, my case load and work during my pay back were not quite what I wanted. Yes, I had to defer doing fellowship until I was out. BUT I was debt free at 35, and if I really want to work just one week a month in the ICU, I can do that without worrying about paying off loans and supporting my family.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
 
Twiggidy said:
i view it as giving yourself the ability to have options. if you can be debt free by 50 (or even mid 40s) then it gives you options regarding your career. if you don't have to worry about a mortgage or school loans then it can be less of a thought to work part time or take no call. Whereas if you're still stuck in debt, sure you may have a solid investment nest egg, but you'll always know you have to work full time to pay down your debts. It's probably the only part of "Rich Dad" that I buy into, that is, financial freedom.
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Not really. If instead of paying down 200k in loans you invest that 200k and modest returns give you 250k in investments after a few years, you have more options not fewer.
 
psychbender said:
It's threads like this that make me glad I joined the Army. Yes, my case load and work during my pay back were not quite what I wanted. Yes, I had to defer doing fellowship until I was out. BUT I was debt free at 35, and if I really want to work just one week a month in the ICU, I can do that without worrying about paying off loans and supporting my family.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
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probably would've did the Navy after residency if I weren't with my lady. i know that's not a reason to NOT do the Navy, but in my head it was. it's a bit of shame there aren't more loan repayment options for specialist
 
nolagas said:
Not really. If instead of paying down 200k in loans you invest that 200k and modest returns give you 250k in investments after a few years, you have more options not fewer.
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if you decide you want to work part time, you'll still owe someone 200k. I'd rather have 50k, maybe 75k (probably more in reality given our salaries) and zero debt instead of needing to divest to pay off my debts. plus, regarding paying off mortgages fast, depend on your rate you can save ALOT of money in interest payments.
 
Twiggidy said:
probably would've did the Navy after residency if I weren't with my lady. i know that's not a reason to NOT do the Navy, but in my head it was. it's a bit of shame there aren't more loan repayment options for specialist
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Oh it's an excellent reason not to join the military. Being the spouse of a servicemember, especially a working spouse, especially a working spouse with a professional career ... not easy.
 
PainDrain said:
My feeling is this. If you are thinking of a general return of 8-10% in the market based in historical returns but have say 400K at 6% on a repayment plan of 25-30 years and a job paying 280-290K and the possibility of salaries staying the same or even declining as mid-levels gain more independence, which is truly the better option? I personally fear still having a massive amount of debt and then having the government (single payer) and/or the CRNA lobby pull the rug out from under me and having to live on 150k per year while still making those loan payments. It’s a worst case scenario but I could still thrive on that 150k per year if I was debt free. If I pay off my debt aggressively I can save 100K or more per year, this is outside my 401K and Roth IRA. Maybe I am not thinking correctly on this, if so please educate me.
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The problem with this line of thought is you've got tunnel vision on the anticipated returns ... but there's no acknowledgement of risk. Risk is not just something that shows up for other people. Evaluating the risk of an investment is every bit as important as evaluating its expected rate of return.

Investing in equities to chase 8-10% post-tax returns comes with nonzero risk. Paying off a 6% loan carries zero risk.

The correct comparison is the risk-free 6% return you get paying off the loan ... vs ... the X% return (counting taxes!) you get from a risk-free investment like US government bonds or FDIC insured CDs. Those are unlikely to beat 6% - hence the conventional advice to pay off debt first.
 
Happiness is just a transient state of mind that varies person to person imo.

People find it in work... family... food.... drugs... sex... etc.

As I continue through medical school, it simply intrigues me as to the lack of perception and lack of appreciation for the small things in life that MANY people (from other students... to doctors... to the general lay public) tend to have.

I'm not saying there's something wrong with working 80 hours a week and trying to get that 7-figure paycheck. Do your thing.

I'm also not saying that there's something wrong with "ONLY" working 40 hours a week and not caring about your salary.

People don't understand that we ALL share the same goddamn fate.... and that is death.

We don't know what the hell is else after this life.

To some people, it's a "heaven/hell" concept and if you believe that... kudos to you.

To some people, you die and that's it.

Whatever you believe in... whomever you believe in... just go with the goddamn flow.

Stop trying to conrtol EVERY little thing that you THINK you have control over and let the universe/God/Allah/Jesus/etc. guide you to your destination.

Just keep it low... slow.. and go with the flow.

Be like water baby.
 
acidbase1 said:
Back to the original question tho, has anyone worked 70 hours/week and been content with life?
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It can be a means to an end. Depending on all variables, that's a lot of hours. Our profession is not without it's stressors. But, if that's what is available to you and it suits the purpose of taking care of your obligations and getting the ball rolling financially, then perhaps for a few years. I'm not positive that long term this is what will make you happy unless the financial rewards are outstanding. But, that situation seems to exist for some folks.
 
Yup. Allowed me to take care of what was important to me. Clean up the debt quickly, Stay at home mom, private school all the way through, some of the nice things in life (not all), and go less than full time in my late 50s. Should have done so sooner.

It was not without cost. We lived far from either my or my wife’s family, missed a lot of my kids stuff. Made me crotchety a fair amount of the time. Knew it was time to cut back when I dreaded the end of a vacation week instead of “oh well back to it”
 
BLADEMDA said:
Work as hard as you can for the most amount of money possible for the first 10 years out. Save, Invest and live modestly. Pay off all debt then begin to cut back on hours or find a better "lifestyle" job. Your ability to work 60+ hours after age 50 may not be realistic. The focus should be on FIRE even if you never actually decide to retire early.

Home - Physician on FIRE
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I agree wholeheartedly. I thought I loved my job until I realized I had saved enough (and benefitted from a strong bull market) and could afford to retire around age 40. It turns out I like certain aspects of what I do, am frustrated by some of the things I have to do (like come in during a blizzard at 0100 this morning for a labor epidural), and what I really loved was building my net worth at a rapid rate.

There's no way I'd be happy working those 60 to 70 hour workweeks routinely anymore, knowing that the work is optional. I still work one week like that per month (>110 hours when you include the home call when I'm not in-house over the weekend) and take a few weeks off in between my workweeks. I could work more, but I have no particular desire to earn more than I do now, and freedom while our kids are relatively young is precious.

Cheers!
-PoF
 
I love when the med students come on here and try to tell the MDs (residents and attendings included) how we should approach our life and career.....
giphy-1.gif


Take a night of call and then come talk to me.....
 
acidbase1 said:
Seems like everyday is Groundhog Day. Wake up at 545, get to the OR and literally go nonstop until 1700-1800. (I’m happy to take my morning dump and a piss or two. If I’m lucky I get a trauma sandwich). Go home, do dictations chill for an hour then do it all over again. Feel shell shocked until about Saturday night get through Sunday and start all over again on monday. (If I’m lucky enough not to be on call)

Granted I haven’t had much vacation and just finished orals a couple weeks ago, but I was somewhat hoping life would slow down a bit after residency. Things are great personally and professionally, it just never stops.

Clearly I picked a gig that pays more bc I’m fresh out and need to get caught up financially... which begs the question, can you work this much and lead a happy life?
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If you have formal pain training, I feel bad for you, as there is no way what you describe should be your situation.

And if you dont, then I dont feel bad for you, and you really shouldn't be doing pain procedures, for a variety of reasons.

If you have a pain fellowship, you should be able to negotiate a much more lifestyle friendly situation and still be making bank.

And weird setup with your pain procedures in the afternoon like that, without ever having seeing them in clinic I am assuming? Who is feeding you the referrals?

FWIW

I work 36 hrs a week currently, doing pain.
Last apt slot at 3PM on Fri.
Going to get lunch and hang out with my wife this afternoon while our kid is in daycare after seeing some patients this morning.
No narcs, no midlevel supervision.
No after hours charting.
No inpatient work.
Make a very large amount of money.
No nights/weekends/holidays.
I am going to be starting up some OR shifts soon just to keep my skills up. Starting with one day a week, first start until 4PM.
No anesthesia call.
All extra pay on top of my pain pay.

And why are you dictating pain procedure notes!? You dont have Epic smartphrases/dotphrases? Each note should take maybe 10 seconds. I can do 20+ procedures in a day and keep up with the notes as I go while the room is turned over.

I think you need to work smarter not harder.
 
PainDrain said:
I am lucky enough to have no undergrad debt but my med school was extremely expensive. My wife also has a graduate degree which we are paying for. I wasn’t lucky enough to get into a cheap state school or get help from family. I had three options: join the military (NFW), choose another career or take out loans. We are paying things off as fast as possible but it’s not as easy as white coat investor makes it seem. For instance, I drive a car that’s paid for and is cheap to operate, my wife has a cheap car loan, we rarely eat out, no golf memberships or other extravagant expenses and don’t travel except to see family and those are usually car trips. Houses in our area are expensive but we chose to live in a mid range house and avoided the more expensive towns. We have four months mortgage and a months salary saved; had a lot more but we threw toward loans.
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There is no reason you shouldn't be able to put 6k a month towards your loans.
 
So this may have been covered already in this thread but I'll throw this question out there: Been out of residency almost 4 years. Trying to pay off a pretty hefty student loan. First job got taken over by an AMG and threw a wrench into that plan pretty quickly. After a little bit of scrambling, settled into a job where I'm working q2 call in an independent contractor position making about 500k. (Sounds bad but the work load is ok.) I was offered a partnership track with another group close by. It will be a short term pay cut but back to my current salary once making partner and I feel like this is a job I can work long term. After telling my current employer, they made a pretty nice counter offer that would allow me to pay off my loans very quickly. So the question is salary or security?
 
midazzoler said:
So this may have been covered already in this thread but I'll throw this question out there: Been out of residency almost 4 years. Trying to pay off a pretty hefty student loan. First job got taken over by an AMG and threw a wrench into that plan pretty quickly. After a little bit of scrambling, settled into a job where I'm working q2 call in an independent contractor position making about 500k. (Sounds bad but the work load is ok.) I was offered a partnership track with another group close by. It will be a short term pay cut but back to my current salary once making partner and I feel like this is a job I can work long term. After telling my current employer, they made a pretty nice counter offer that would allow me to pay off my loans very quickly. So the question is salary or security?
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Right now, salary. The world is changing fast. Make that money.

But if you leave let us know where so one of us hungry ones can scoop it up.

Are you supervising or doing your own cases?
 
GA8314 said:
There is no reason you shouldn't be able to put 6k a month towards your loans.
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Do you mean in addition to my standard payments?


Right now we put down about 4800 a month in payments alone plus we started recently putting down an additional 3-3500. We still are saving a little every month to our emergency fund. Could probably really skimp and put an additional 1000 down but would have to really cut back.
 
midazzoler said:
So this may have been covered already in this thread but I'll throw this question out there: Been out of residency almost 4 years. Trying to pay off a pretty hefty student loan. First job got taken over by an AMG and threw a wrench into that plan pretty quickly. After a little bit of scrambling, settled into a job where I'm working q2 call in an independent contractor position making about 500k. (Sounds bad but the work load is ok.) I was offered a partnership track with another group close by. It will be a short term pay cut but back to my current salary once making partner and I feel like this is a job I can work long term. After telling my current employer, they made a pretty nice counter offer that would allow me to pay off my loans very quickly. So the question is salary or security?
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Salary......stack the cash so you don't have to be dependent on a job
 
PainDrain said:
Do you mean in addition to my standard payments?


Right now we put down about 4800 a month in payments alone plus we started recently putting down an additional 3-3500. We still are saving a little every month to our emergency fund. Could probably really skimp and put an additional 1000 down but would have to really cut back.
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I may add the counter argument of: "It depends on the interest rate."

Depending on the interest rate and monthly rate, student loan debt is one of those things you can "set and forget", especially with our salaries. You can probably invest that extra money you're paying back to the gov't and get a pretty good ROI after taxes (which i know is slightly counter to the argument I made a few posts back). My approach is different with a mortgage because in my eyes, I don't want to pay all that interest to a bank so I try to pay my mortgage faster.

But if your interest rate is high and your payments are high then it's another story
 
Timeoutofmind said:
If you have formal pain training, I feel bad for you, as there is no way what you describe should be your situation.

And if you dont, then I dont feel bad for you, and you really shouldn't be doing pain procedures, for a variety of reasons.

If you have a pain fellowship, you should be able to negotiate a much more lifestyle friendly situation and still be making bank.

And weird setup with your pain procedures in the afternoon like that, without ever having seeing them in clinic I am assuming? Who is feeding you the referrals?

FWIW

I work 36 hrs a week currently, doing pain.
Last apt slot at 3PM on Fri.
Going to get lunch and hang out with my wife this afternoon while our kid is in daycare after seeing some patients this morning.
No narcs, no midlevel supervision.
No after hours charting.
No inpatient work.
Make a very large amount of money.
No nights/weekends/holidays.
I am going to be starting up some OR shifts soon just to keep my skills up. Starting with one day a week, first start until 4PM.
No anesthesia call.
All extra pay on top of my pain pay.

And why are you dictating pain procedure notes!? You dont have Epic smartphrases/dotphrases? Each note should take maybe 10 seconds. I can do 20+ procedures in a day and keep up with the notes as I go while the room is turned over.

I think you need to work smarter not harder.
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You sound like my former PD
 
Timeoutofmind said:
If you have formal pain training, I feel bad for you, as there is no way what you describe should be your situation.

And if you dont, then I dont feel bad for you, and you really shouldn't be doing pain procedures, for a variety of reasons.

If you have a pain fellowship, you should be able to negotiate a much more lifestyle friendly situation and still be making bank.

And weird setup with your pain procedures in the afternoon like that, without ever having seeing them in clinic I am assuming? Who is feeding you the referrals?

FWIW

I work 36 hrs a week currently, doing pain.
Last apt slot at 3PM on Fri.
Going to get lunch and hang out with my wife this afternoon while our kid is in daycare after seeing some patients this morning.
No narcs, no midlevel supervision.
No after hours charting.
No inpatient work.
Make a very large amount of money.
No nights/weekends/holidays.
I am going to be starting up some OR shifts soon just to keep my skills up. Starting with one day a week, first start until 4PM.
No anesthesia call.
All extra pay on top of my pain pay.

And why are you dictating pain procedure notes!? You dont have Epic smartphrases/dotphrases? Each note should take maybe 10 seconds. I can do 20+ procedures in a day and keep up with the notes as I go while the room is turned over.

I think you need to work smarter not harder.
Click to expand...

20+ procedures a day in addition to seeing patients? Are all 5 days (or how many you work) procedural days? How many employees do you have? Biller, secretary, nurse? More? Are you giving up a pain day for an OR day? Sounds like major pay cut
 
Timeoutofmind said:
If you have formal pain training, I feel bad for you, as there is no way what you describe should be your situation.

And if you dont, then I dont feel bad for you, and you really shouldn't be doing pain procedures, for a variety of reasons.

If you have a pain fellowship, you should be able to negotiate a much more lifestyle friendly situation and still be making bank.

And weird setup with your pain procedures in the afternoon like that, without ever having seeing them in clinic I am assuming? Who is feeding you the referrals?

FWIW

I work 36 hrs a week currently, doing pain.
Last apt slot at 3PM on Fri.
Going to get lunch and hang out with my wife this afternoon while our kid is in daycare after seeing some patients this morning.
No narcs, no midlevel supervision.
No after hours charting.
No inpatient work.
Make a very large amount of money.
No nights/weekends/holidays.
I am going to be starting up some OR shifts soon just to keep my skills up. Starting with one day a week, first start until 4PM.
No anesthesia call.
All extra pay on top of my pain pay.

And why are you dictating pain procedure notes!? You dont have Epic smartphrases/dotphrases? Each note should take maybe 10 seconds. I can do 20+ procedures in a day and keep up with the notes as I go while the room is turned over.

I think you need to work smarter not harder.
Click to expand...


Where is this? And how long have you been out? My experience is you either take a cr@p job working for someone else in a nice location or you can take a great job in a lousy location.
 
PainDrain said:
Where is this? And how long have you been out? My experience is you either take a cr@p job working for someone else in a nice location or you can take a great job in a lousy location.
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Well I can’t speak for pain gigs, but there are still good, equitable PP anesthesia gigs in great locations. For instance, I had a (rare) 2hr gap between cases this morning so I figured I’d walk across the street and finish my coffe:

D0D273BE-345A-4D7D-BE70-FC6D2E1FE914.jpeg
 
what is this absurd preoccupation with student loan debt? Auto-pay on a ten year schedule and forget that ****. No reason to compromise your quality of life, sense of well-being, and ability to make early investments over low interest, neutral debt. JMHO.
 
QueenJames said:
Happiness is just a transient state of mind that varies person to person imo.

People find it in work... family... food.... drugs... sex... etc.

As I continue through medical school, it simply intrigues me as to the lack of perception and lack of appreciation for the small things in life that MANY people (from other students... to doctors... to the general lay public) tend to have.

I'm not saying there's something wrong with working 80 hours a week and trying to get that 7-figure paycheck. Do your thing.

I'm also not saying that there's something wrong with "ONLY" working 40 hours a week and not caring about your salary.

People don't understand that we ALL share the same goddamn fate.... and that is death.

We don't know what the hell is else after this life.

To some people, it's a "heaven/hell" concept and if you believe that... kudos to you.

To some people, you die and that's it.

Whatever you believe in... whomever you believe in... just go with the goddamn flow.

Stop trying to conrtol EVERY little thing that you THINK you have control over and let the universe/God/Allah/Jesus/etc. guide you to your destination.

Just keep it low... slow.. and go with the flow.

Be like water baby.
Click to expand...

Seriously, get the **** out.
 
anbuitachi said:
20+ procedures a day in addition to seeing patients? Are all 5 days (or how many you work) procedural days? How many employees do you have? Biller, secretary, nurse? More? Are you giving up a pain day for an OR day? Sounds like major pay cut
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PainDrain said:
Where is this? And how long have you been out? My experience is you either take a cr@p job working for someone else in a nice location or you can take a great job in a lousy location.
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Been out two years. I am hospital employed at a big city in the midwest where my wife wanted to live because of connections with her job
So I dont employ anyone. The hospital just floats my staff over to a different provider the day I am in the OR. There is a lot of support staff, MA/nurse/scheduler/secretaries/techs in the procedure room/hospital has a billing dept, etc, etc.
In a week, I do 1.5 days procedures, 2 days clinic, 1 day anesthesia OR (will soon start), 0.5 days chillaxin with my wife in the afternoon while kid is at daycare aka "administrative".
The OR day will not be a pay cut, or at least a small one, because anes pays pretty well here. And also it takes the heat off having one less day of clinic as that is one day I dont have to worry about raising so much business to keep the pain clinic busy given my no narcs policy.
On the 20 procedure days I am not seeing patients. Amount of procedures per day varies extremely widely. Stim surgical implants booked for a couple of hours. ESIs booked for 15 minutes. Most would be around 30 procedures a day if they were all ESIs/joint injections/nerve blocks, etc. But almost always there are bigger cases mixed in there.
I have a few administrative roles that pay very well if you break it down hourly as well

In pain, a lot of it is just right place/time, what you negotiate and how you sell yourself. What kind of risks you are willing to take. Working smarter not harder. Strategic decision making and dealing with touchy/political situations wisely. Little to do with background, CV.

But basically I am so fortunate. I think about it every day.
 
SaltyDog said:
Well I can’t speak for pain gigs, but there are still good, equitable PP anesthesia gigs in great locations. For instance, I had a (rare) 2hr gap between cases this morning so I figured I’d walk across the street and finish my coffe:

View attachment 232382
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So lucky! We have 2 hour gaps on a regular basis but it is usually because the scrub tech thinks they have something more important to do in the mens locker room than their job.
 
midazzoler said:
So this may have been covered already in this thread but I'll throw this question out there: Been out of residency almost 4 years. Trying to pay off a pretty hefty student loan. First job got taken over by an AMG and threw a wrench into that plan pretty quickly. After a little bit of scrambling, settled into a job where I'm working q2 call in an independent contractor position making about 500k. (Sounds bad but the work load is ok.) I was offered a partnership track with another group close by. It will be a short term pay cut but back to my current salary once making partner and I feel like this is a job I can work long term. After telling my current employer, they made a pretty nice counter offer that would allow me to pay off my loans very quickly. So the question is salary or security?
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How much do you know about the partnership group? Does everyone make partner? Would it require a move? Do you know anyone on the inside of that group? The devil is in the details.
 
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