Is it too late?

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moses2002

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Hello I am excited I found these forums. I would like to explain my situation and have the boards critique it to see if it is feasible for me to consider attending medical school. I just turned 23 years old and have been out of school for a year. I graduated from a private university with a degree in business administration. Due to personal issues and lack of interest in my business courses I graudated with a 2.72 GPA (a few courses with D's the rest mostly b's a few a's and c's.) I have been working in business for a year and realize I want to do something more rewarding with my life. I have considered being a doctor since I was very young but made the mistake of majoring in business. I have not taken any of the science courses yet and plan on enrolling at a state university for a 2nd undergrad degree in biology to fulfill the requirements. There is absolutely no dobt in my mind that I can obtain a 4.0 in the med school requirements and do very well on the mcat. I have already volunteered over 100 hours at a hospital before I entered college and plan on shadowing multiple physicians and doing some more volunteer work as well as enhancing my extracarricular activities. My question is should I go for it and enroll in a post bac program or will my low undergrad business gpa haunt me forever. Thank you for the input.

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DrMidlife

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should I go for it and enroll in a post bac program
yes

or will my low undergrad business gpa haunt me forever
also yes, unless you live in Texas and want to do your bachelors degree over. You're required to submit every transcript you ever got, and every grade is kept in your average. Forever amen. But there are lots of us here in the same boat.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do this.

1. Peace Corps. Coupla years, good foreign language training, great transition activity from past life to new life, insta-maturity. You're incredibly young - don't think you don't have time.

2. Strong sustained upward trend. You won't get your GPA over a 3.3 without spending more than 4 more years in undergrad. So you need to show multiple years of new behavior: ace your prereqs, and ALSO take additional hard science and ace it. I'd say minimum two years, full time.
(Note that a great graduate GPA doesn't make up for a poor undergrad GPA. But after you're done with your prereqs, you can also look into doing graduate work in science, or an SMP program, to validate your academic capabilities in the eyes of an admissions committee.)

3. Think 3.7. You would be surprised how hard it is to get a 4.0 at any decent school. Two full time years at a 3.7 is great.

4. Think 31+. Prep yourself half to death for the MCAT, and don't take it until your practice tests are over 32.

Visit the postbac forum as well. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Best of luck to you.
 

Swerve

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Also to add to thw wonderful reply's... Really think specifically what is rewarding about being an MD/DO.
Meaning if you somthing generally rewarding there are other aveues. Develope a philosophy for your self to really shape the way you look at things. So down the line you have a wealth of knowledge to support your entrance into the medical profession. (As oppose to something else...).

I wish you luck!
 
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DrMidlife

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Remember DO schools count retakes only, so your AACOMAS GPA will rise much faster than AMCAS.

True, if there are retakes. I doubt the OP wants to repeat biz admin classes for better grades.

More to the point on retakes: My AACOMAS science GPA is a full half point higher than my AMCAS science GPA. Why? Tons of computer science (AMCAS doesn't count it as science; AACOMAS does) and lots of retakes.
 

gman33

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It's never too late if you are willing to put in the work. Your past performance will make it an uphill battle, but it can be done. You can do a formal post-bacc or just take science classes at any school that has a good science program. If the school has a premed office that you can use, that will make it a lot easier when you go to apply.

One word of caution, don't fool yourself into thinking just because you take school serious now that you can automatically get an A in every class you take. Positive thinking is good, but make sure you give yourself the best chance to succeed. I would recommend starting slowly and only taking one class your first semester back. Make sure you get an A no matter how much time you have to study. If you can handle this, take 2 the next semester and work your way up from there. The only reason I say this, is that in the past you didn't do well in school. You now need to do exceptional to overcome this. Some may say this plan will take you too long to get all your classes done, but don't try to rush it and get B's or worse. I've seen this happen to others, and now they have made it that much harder to get in anywhere.

With a few years of work and a really strong MCAT you should be able to get in somewhere. Make sure you look into DO schools as well.

Good luck on your journey.
 

moses2002

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Agreed.



Remember DO schools count retakes only, so your AACOMAS GPA will rise much faster than AMCAS.

After a degree is completed is it even possible to retake courses? I spoke to the registrar at my school and they said it wasen't possible since I already graduated. If it is my gpa would be conisderably higher as I would turn the 4 D's on my record into A's. Could I just retake these courses at any school and they would replace my first take of the course under AACOMAS consideration?

If I enroll in a second bach degree do I just get to pick and choose the science courses I want to take since I have already fulfilled non science basic requirements with my first degree. Do I just get to select a bunch of elective science courses to fullfill the 120 or so needed units for the second degree?
 

moses2002

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Unanswered questions need answering please help!
 

DrMidlife

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After a degree is completed is it even possible to retake courses? I spoke to the registrar at my school and they said it wasen't possible since I already graduated. If it is my gpa would be conisderably higher as I would turn the 4 D's on my record into A's. Could I just retake these courses at any school and they would replace my first take of the course under AACOMAS consideration?

Are these science courses, or biz? If they're biz, I'd just let it go. Take 4 upper div science classes and call it even. To some extent, you're going to need to draw a line in the sand that says "before date D I was a biz major and didn't do so well, but after D I was premed and look how great I did!!!"

For AMCAS (MD schools), you don't lose the old grade, so any A in any class is as good as a retake. For AACOMAS (DO), you can designate that course "X" is a retake of course "Y" and they figure it out. But again, I'm not excited about you retaking any biz courses. I could get kinda excited about you taking maybe psych or soc instead of upper div science to "replace" those D's, but don't take more biz.

If I enroll in a second bach degree do I just get to pick and choose the science courses I want to take since I have already fulfilled non science basic requirements with my first degree. Do I just get to select a bunch of elective science courses to fullfill the 120 or so needed units for the second degree?

I'm doing a 2nd BS, and all I have to do is complete the major - that's much less than 120 units. There will be some quibbling about whether all your classes transfer, or new requirements since you graduated, and you just have to stomach it and take a class you think you've already taken. Whatever.

If you sign up for a 2nd BS in a science such as chem, bio, micro, biochem, etc., then you'll see that the major requirements nicely overlap the premed requirements, plus you'll take a bunch of upper div science. (It'll be hard!!! Don't slack!!! O-chem is going to hurt!!! Kick some butt!!!)

You may need to apply to get accepted to the school again, and/or then take lower div science to get accepted into a sci major. I had to.

Lastly, consider changing schools, unless your alma mater is a science powerhouse and cheap. I just think this is good psychologically, since you didn't do fabulously there the first time.

Better than silence? :) Best of luck to you.
 

Meatwad

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1) Pre-reqs + UD science courses until you hit 3.01-3.1

2) Special Master's Program (SMP) - Georgetown, Boston, VCU, EVMS, Cinci, etc.
 

Faze2

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yes


also yes, unless you live in Texas and want to do your bachelors degree over. You're required to submit every transcript you ever got, and every grade is kept in your average. Forever amen. But there are lots of us here in the same boat.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do this.

1. Peace Corps. Coupla years, good foreign language training, great transition activity from past life to new life, insta-maturity. You're incredibly young - don't think you don't have time.

Dr Midlife, can you please go a little more into this for me. I know it probably looks awesome on your app but it seems like a pretty drastic step that a lot of us are not in the position to take. You always give good advice here so I'd really liek to hear why you put this as #1 in your reply. Thanks.
 

moses2002

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How are W's (withdraws) taken into account in your med school GPA? I took a few courses pass/fail at my university as well as a few courses that transfered over from a community college. Does med school's calculate the letter grade into your GPA or just consider it credit/no credit. If so my GPA will actually be lower if W's and pass fail / transfer courses are weighted with the grades I actually received in the courses.
 

DrMidlife

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Dr Midlife, can you please go a little more into this for me. I know it probably looks awesome on your app but it seems like a pretty drastic step that a lot of us are not in the position to take. You always give good advice here so I'd really liek to hear why you put this as #1 in your reply. Thanks.

Golly, thanks. There are RPCVs (returning Peace Corps volunteers) on these boards who can tell you what it's actually like. My perspective is from wishing I'd done the PC when I was younger, because now I'm 41 and it's really either/or for me, PC vs. med school.

Yes, the Peace Corps is a drastic step and no, not everybody is in a position to do it. If you have kids, debt, family obligations etc. you can't pull up and leave for 27 months. But if you could...

I see two buckets of goodness about doing a PC gig. One is the "what it does to you" bucket and the other is the "what it says about you" bucket.

In the "what it does to you" bucket the PC shares a lot of goodness with other orgs like Unite for Sight, Habitat for Humanity, Doctors without Borders, Red Cross, and plenty more that work in and out of the US, including the military. Effectively when you sign up with any of these, you are putting aside your comforts to be of service. You might learn another language really well. You might be in the right place at the right time to be really useful (like Katrina or Banda Ace). These orgs aren't trying to entertain you or impress your parents. What's amazing to me about the PC, among all these orgs, is that it gets you out of the US for multiple years, it puts you to work for people who have less than you probably do, it subjugates you to an organization that isn't perfect but has high humanitarian aims (like any US hospital), it gives you responsibility without requiring you to show up with an MD/RN/MPH, and it doesn't require you to shoot anybody. I see this as unique.

If you're 21, grew up in a suburban mall, can't live without your iPod, and you don't know what people mean when they say you're immature, the Peace Corps would change you, big time. If you're 30, have been around the block a few times, have reason to be cynical about the US corporate working life, and you're not sure anything's worth doing, the PC would take a decent shot at changing you. Personally I wanted to go because I was becoming my own worst nightmare: a highly paid creator of crap that people don't need but they buy anyway. I wanted a hard, sustained jerk out of that life. (I've settled for a soft, slow jerk, I guess.)

OK, so in the "what it says about you" bucket, if you complete a PC gig, that speaks volumes to a future employer or med school admissions committee. It says that you stayed overseas in a country where you don't have all the comforts of home, and maybe there's really bad air pollution, crime, disease, etc. and you didn't come running home. You had a job that wasn't necessarily exciting or even interesting and you did it anyway. You've seen what another part of the world is like and you probably have an adult appreciation of what the US has and doesn't have. You may have been isolated in a village, dependent on your nascent language skills, and survived. You did all this, and you STILL want to be a doctor, as opposed to running for a high-paying job. Compare this to the Halo3 candidate, the wine cellar candidate, the $50,000 wedding candidate, etc. (OK, yeah, you can be a Halo3 wine cellar $50,000 wedding RPCV candidate, sure.)

In summary, if you're trying to get into medical school, some part of you wants to help people, and you're one of 40,000 candidates trying to stand out. Lots of people get into medical school and end up helping people, without doing the Peace Corps. Add a PC gig to the mix, and I think it gives you (a) a better grasp on whether you even want a life of service in the first place; (b) the ultimate EC; and (c) a bona fide humanitarian experience to launch you through med school and your career.

I'll invite Jolie South to comment. She did a PC gig in Cameroon and is applying this year.
 

DrMidlife

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How are W's (withdraws) taken into account in your med school GPA? I took a few courses pass/fail at my university as well as a few courses that transfered over from a community college. Does med school's calculate the letter grade into your GPA or just consider it credit/no credit. If so my GPA will actually be lower if W's and pass fail / transfer courses are weighted with the grades I actually received in the courses.

W's and pass/fail don't get included in GPA calcs. A large number of W's isn't a good thing to have, but it won't show up in your numbers. (I think I have 4.)
 

Jolie South

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Ok, so I haven't read this thread all the way through, but I did read DrMidlife's post. ..

so, peace corps . . .

it's more than a job/volunteer service. yes, i did a lot of public health and community development work when i was there, but writing down my projects on paper does them little justice. Peace Corps tests you in ways that you didn't know that you could be tested. to write that one line on my resume took a lot of work and effort and I'm proud of what I did.

You will see the American culture differently. You might even decide that you don't agree with a lot of things that happen here.

You will re-evaluate what is important to you. Do I really care about having crap tons of money? Can I be happy with nothing? Where am I going?

You will learn to put aside judgment and relate to others on a basic human level. You will realize a lot about humanity.

You will gain language skills.

You will learn how to fall and get back up again.

You will know what you are capable of and you will gain confidence in yourself.

You will see health differently. Americans are concerned about looking good, acne problems, etc. Africans are concerned about drinking healthy water and whether or not their children will survive early bouts of malaria.

I know this sounds cheesy and most of you are probably thinking that I'm crazy, but I am serious. PC did all of this for me. I loved it.

If you want to know anything else, I'd be happy to share.
 

Jolie South

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i should also note that I don't regret being the age that I am now. I feel better prepared to start med school and have zero doubts that this is what i want.
 
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