Is medical school going to kill me?

[babydoc1996]

Hi all,

I'd like to be an adolescent inpatient psychiatrist, and I'd like to challenge the experience of being seen by a psych for 5 minutes, being given a medication, and then having them leave without knowing you on a personal level. I know, I know, I've brought this up and people have suggested clinical psychology to me, but I really want to be that psychiatrist that changed teenagers' feelings about mental illness and medicine and the overmedication of America. I'd like to take extra psychotherapy training.

However, I have a learning disability (dyscalculia) meaning I have a really, really hard time understanding math and much science. If I were to go really go to medical school, I'd need an academic coach and a tutor. In the past I've had trouble with getting really frustrated and giving up too easily, but I've had more patience and willingness to push myself to do a lot of hard work in the past 2 years and it feels great. I'm just worried I'll fail out or give up. The worst part about all of this is that I have PTSD from a childhood medical event, and I'm scared ****less (excuse my French) of a peds rotation.

See my dilemma?

I want to be a psychiatrist that makes a legitimate difference in the worst point of people's lives. Is med school going to kill me?

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[7331poas]

Hi all,

I'd like to be an adolescent inpatient psychiatrist, and I'd like to challenge the experience of being seen by a psych for 5 minutes, being given a medication, and then having them leave without knowing you on a personal level. I know, I know, I've brought this up and people have suggested clinical psychology to me, but I really want to be that psychiatrist that changed teenagers' feelings about mental illness and medicine and the overmedication of America. I'd like to take extra psychotherapy training.

However, I have a learning disability (dyscalculia) meaning I have a really, really hard time understanding math and much science. If I were to go really go to medical school, I'd need an academic coach and a tutor. In the past I've had trouble with getting really frustrated and giving up too easily, but I've had more patience and willingness to push myself to do a lot of hard work in the past 2 years and it feels great. I'm just worried I'll fail out or give up. The worst part about all of this is that I have PTSD from a childhood medical event, and I'm scared ****less (excuse my French) of a peds rotation.

See my dilemma?

I want to be a psychiatrist that makes a legitimate difference in the worst point of people's lives. Is med school going to kill me?

Sounds like you haven't been admitted.

What is your MCAT and GPA?

 

[thatchemguy]

All of the things you mentioned sounds like the complete opposite of what medical school is like/demands. As much as I hate to say it, there's really no way to survive medical school if you 1) give up easily 2) cannot understand and keep up with the very RAPID pace of dense scientific concepts. These questions will probably come up in interviews as well (sounds like you haven't been admitted yet).

You can absolutely still make a difference in any psychological field you choose to go into. But medical school will be a very difficult, uphill battle that pushes even the most level-headed/tenacious people to frustration at times.

 

[throwaway1000000]

Agree with above posts. Your undergrad science classes especially biology/biochemistry classes can give you a pretty big clue whether you can succeed. Med school classes are not very much different from undergrad biology/biochemistry (especially the advanced stuff like molecular biology, biochemistry etc).
You memorize stuff and you take a test on it. If you can do that in undergrad, you can do that in med school. It might be harder, sure, but you also have that much extra time. Having said that, if you have trouble in undergrad science classes, I do not think med school will go very well.
If you are so pigeon-holed into just going into psych in a particular type, you might not find medical school very rewarding or exciting. Most of the medical school curriculum doesn't relate any bit to psychiatry. You will have a 2 week class in the first 2 yrs on psychiatry and a 4-8 wk rotation in third 3rd year in psychiatry.
You have to at least like other aspect of medicine a little bit if you are thinking of practicing medicine.
What you are describing sounds more like psychology than psychiatry.

 

[efle]

The barrier to admissions to med school is much higher than it needs to be for the actual demands of med school. A 50th percentile MCAT predicts graduating med school just fine, but the average to get in somewhere is 80th percentile.

So let that figure this out for you. If you can beat the test and get in somewhere, odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that you'd graduate.

 

[7331poas]

The barrier to admissions to med school is much higher than it needs to be for the actual demands of med school. A 50th percentile MCAT predicts graduating med school just fine, but the average to get in somewhere is 80th percentile.

So let that figure this out for you. If you can beat the test and get in somewhere, odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that you'd graduate.

graduating medical school is a pretty low bar. Most medical schools (and residency programs) do everything possible to push through their students and make sure they match/graduate.

 

[efle]

graduating medical school is a pretty low bar. Most medical schools (and residency programs) do everything possible to push through their students and make sure they match/graduate.

Hey man, he's after psych. Different story if he was born to fix bones or biopsy weird moles. If he can get a 510+ and land a seat at a USMD school, I wouldn't hesitate to enroll.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hey man, he's after psych. Different story if he was born to fix bones or biopsy weird moles. If he can get a 510+ and land a seat at a USMD school, I wouldn't hesitate to enroll.

AFAIK psych is getting more competitive. Though obviously not as competitive as ortho or derm.

 

[efle]

AFAIK psych is getting more competitive. Though obviously not as competitive as ortho or derm.

I think the people getting hit hard in the latest psych matches are DO, IMG, or very low board scoring peeps. According to the NRMP tableau page, a US MD senior last year with a step in the 220s still had a ~90% success rate.

 

[Goro]

Hi all,

I'd like to be an adolescent inpatient psychiatrist, and I'd like to challenge the experience of being seen by a psych for 5 minutes, being given a medication, and then having them leave without knowing you on a personal level. I know, I know, I've brought this up and people have suggested clinical psychology to me, but I really want to be that psychiatrist that changed teenagers' feelings about mental illness and medicine and the overmedication of America. I'd like to take extra psychotherapy training.

However, I have a learning disability (dyscalculia) meaning I have a really, really hard time understanding math and much science. If I were to go really go to medical school, I'd need an academic coach and a tutor. In the past I've had trouble with getting really frustrated and giving up too easily, but I've had more patience and willingness to push myself to do a lot of hard work in the past 2 years and it feels great. I'm just worried I'll fail out or give up. The worst part about all of this is that I have PTSD from a childhood medical event, and I'm scared ****less (excuse my French) of a peds rotation.

See my dilemma?

I want to be a psychiatrist that makes a legitimate difference in the worst point of people's lives. Is med school going to kill me?

Kill you? No. Take you to your intellectual limits? Yes. Break you? Possibly, unless you get your PTSD under 100% control.

The lack of math skill make hurt with physiology and therefore understanding cardiac, renal and respiratory issues.

I suggest going for PhD in Psychology instead.

 

[Tenk]

As someone who deals with dramacidal teens on a near daily basis, good luck with that.

 

[sloop]

A lot of the above posters have brought up good points. If you have difficulty with science or give up easily, med school will be very difficult.

I’ll also add that, as a psych resident, I get concerned when people talk about pursuing psychiatry but imply that they have reservations about “overmedication” or whatever. I won’t say that there aren’t doctors who misuse benzos and such, but psychiatrists sometimes treat very sick people and have to be comfortable prescribing medication (even to the point of just sedating people to ensure their safety at times). I worry that some of the people who express these views are anti-medication advocates who have no business in psychiatry.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Kill you? No. Take you to your intellectual limits? Yes. Break you? Possibly, unless you get your PTSD under 100% control.

The lack of math skill make hurt with physiology and therefore understanding cardiac, renal and respiratory issues.

I suggest going for PhD in Psychology instead.

Depends what type of PhD in psychology. For clinical psych you need a strong understanding of statistics. You have to take graduate level statistics course. If OP is bad at math including statistics they will struggle with being able to interpret psychological and neuropsychological testing. Which is the backbone of clinical psychology. Also you need to be somewhat good with science as you have to write a thesis and dissertation based on the research you have done.

 

[LizzyM]

I'd like to be an adolescent inpatient psychiatrist, and I'd like to challenge the experience of being seen by a psych for 5 minutes, being given a medication, and then having them leave without knowing you on a personal level.

To me the bigger question is whether this model is feasible and financically sustainable. We do a terrible job of funding mental health services as they are today. Inpatient services are becoming more rare for all age groups and drug treatment has over the past 50 (?) years emptied out the mental hospitals and psych wards. Why do you expect your desired model to gain any traction? Who will pay you for what your time is worth?

 

[allantois]

Just had one patient wait over 1 week for a psych bed to open up for them. If only those darn psychiatrists could move any slower!

 

[babydoc1996]

I'm not in this for the money.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hi all,

I'd like to be an adolescent inpatient psychiatrist, and I'd like to challenge the experience of being seen by a psych for 5 minutes, being given a medication, and then having them leave without knowing you on a personal level. I know, I know, I've brought this up and people have suggested clinical psychology to me, but I really want to be that psychiatrist that changed teenagers' feelings about mental illness and medicine and the overmedication of America. I'd like to take extra psychotherapy training.

However, I have a learning disability (dyscalculia) meaning I have a really, really hard time understanding math and much science. If I were to go really go to medical school, I'd need an academic coach and a tutor. In the past I've had trouble with getting really frustrated and giving up too easily, but I've had more patience and willingness to push myself to do a lot of hard work in the past 2 years and it feels great. I'm just worried I'll fail out or give up. The worst part about all of this is that I have PTSD from a childhood medical event, and I'm scared ****less (excuse my French) of a peds rotation.

See my dilemma?

I want to be a psychiatrist that makes a legitimate difference in the worst point of people's lives. Is med school going to kill me?

If you make it through premed and the MCAT you'll make it through med school. I'll say that your perception of psychiatrists is rather narrow, however. I know a few excellent C&A psychiatrists, and they typically spend 40-60 minutes on intakes and 20-30 minutes per patient

 

[Mad Jack]

Just had one patient wait over 1 week for a psych bed to open up for them. If only those darn psychiatrists could move any slower!

Yeah, we really need to work on our masonry and architectural skills so we can build beds faster. Psychiatric training has failed us

 

[Mad Jack]

To me the bigger question is whether this model is feasible and financically sustainable. We do a terrible job of funding mental health services as they are today. Inpatient services are becoming more rare for all age groups and drug treatment has over the past 50 (?) years emptied out the mental hospitals and psych wards. Why do you expect your desired model to gain any traction? Who will pay you for what your time is worth?

I mean, even Medicaid at standard rates pays $124 per hour if you're running two thirty minute sessions an hour, which won't make you rich. But private insurers can pay up to twice as much, so if you're taking only private payers (or cash if you're that sort) you can easily net $250-350/hr seeing two clients per hour. Most psychiatrists in my area see between two and three patients per hour, the old model of 15 minute med checks is basically only practiced by pill mills.

 

[Sephirakra]

I'm not in this for the money.

That's easy to say, but your hospital is going to want you to bill so they can do things like keep the lights on.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's easy to say, but your hospital is going to want you to bill so they can do things like keep the lights on.

Over 40% of psychiatrists do not accept insurance specifically so that they can avoid the issue of having external factors such as middle managers and insurance companies forcing their hand

 

[Sephirakra]

Over 40% of psychiatrists do not accept insurance specifically so that they can avoid the issue of having external factors such as middle managers and insurance companies forcing their hand

Does that apply to inpatient-specific situations like OP described?

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Does that apply to inpatient-specific situations like OP described?

Some inpatient programs at McLean are self-pay some psych hospitals do not accept insurance. Most psychiatric hospitals probably do take insurance. At elegant McLean psychiatric outpost, $2,150 a day, and insurance is not welcome - The Boston Globe
Edit: Also Sheppard Prett doesn't take insurance neither does Mennigner Clinic in Houston.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

OP: In the inpatient setting patients are only there for 3-7 days maybe more for something severe. I'm not sure how you're going to be able to know someone on a personal level after a week. You are only going to be stabilizing them and it's the outpatient psychiatrists job to further help them in the long term. In inpatient you're only going to be focusing on short term stabilization so that they can go home. I only know one psychiatrist who spends a good time with patients 15-50 minutes or 90 minutes for a family meeting. The people that end up in inpatient are severely mentally ill. They are suicidal,homicidal maybe psychotic. About 90-99% of the patients you see in inpatient will probably need some sort of psychiatric medication. OP I would suggest social work.

 

[LizzyM]

Q: Why medicine?
A; I'd like to be a cash-only, inpatient psychiatrist to the children and adolescents of the 1%.

 

[sloop]

FYI: patients being cash-pay usually has nothing to do with the remuneration of the psychiatrists who care for them.

 

[Mad Jack]

Does that apply to inpatient-specific situations like OP described?

Inpatient you actually have more time per patient than outpatient even if you accept insurance

 

[LizzyM]

FYI: patients being cash-pay usually has nothing to do with the remuneration of the psychiatrists who care for them.

But it has something to do with how much time the physician can give each of them.

 

[Mad Jack]

Q: Why medicine?
A; I'd like to be a cash-only, inpatient psychiatrist to the children and adolescents of the 1%.

You do sliding scales- the 1% subsidize your lower paying patients. And cash only doesn't mean you are only serving wealthy clients. Most patients are more than willing to pay two or three times their regular copays for a doctor that actually has the time to listen, provide therapy, and prescribe appropriately, and they can still submit a claim to their insurance as an out of network provider to make up much of the difference (a 99213 will get about $60-120 of a patient's payment back). Given the choice between providing a larger number of people with less than adequate care or a smaller number of people with superior care, many psychiatrists prefer the latter. And perhaps the least ethical practices I've encountered are psychiatry pill mills that serve as many patients as possible with 10 minute med checks and numerous physician extenders to maximize insurance billing and put seven figures in the pocket of the owner while leaving clients on often nonsensical regimens and providing them with zero therapy.

Personally I think 30 minutes is enough, and I'm fine with insurance, but I do like to highlight that there's a lot of room to practice in the manner you want rather than those in which you would be forced to.

 

[efle]

You do sliding scales- the 1% subsidize your lower paying patients. And cash only doesn't mean you are only serving wealthy clients. Most patients are more than willing to pay two or three times their regular copays for a doctor that actually has the time to listen, provide therapy, and prescribe appropriately, and they can still submit a claim to their insurance as an out of network provider to make up much of the difference (a 99213 will get about $60-120 of a patient's payment back). Given the choice between providing a larger number of people with less than adequate care or a smaller number of people with superior care, many psychiatrists prefer the latter. And perhaps the least ethical practices I've encountered are psychiatry pill mills that serve as many patients as possible with 10 minute med checks and numerous physician extenders to maximize insurance billing and put seven figures in the pocket of the owner while leaving clients on often nonsensical regimens and providing them with zero therapy.

Personally I think 30 minutes is enough, and I'm fine with insurance, but I do like to highlight that there's a lot of room to practice in the manner you want rather than those in which you would be forced to.

I've noticed some crazy setups in primary care too. The new group my family sees in CA is like half a dozen PAs that do all the facetime with patients and a single MD who sits in the back providing signatures. The $$/effort ratio for these guys must be incredible.

 

[Engrailed]

I've noticed some crazy setups in primary care too. The new group my family sees in CA is like half a dozen PAs that do all the facetime with patients and a single MD who sits in the back providing signatures. The $$/effort ratio for these guys must be incredible.

I worked very briefly at what seemed to be an extremely profitable pain management “medical office” where there was 1 MD doctor (the main guy) plus about a dozen PRE-MEDS, or Pre-PharmD students seeing and counseling patients. The doctor did the actual procedure(aka mostly just giving injection$) while the rest of the “medical staff” did the rest, INCLUDING giving Rx recommendations.

I felt that the entire practice was so unethical, the epitome of greed, selfishness, and dishonesty, I quit after a week after seeing what the deal was. Patients were under the assumption that these were at least PAs. NOPE.

I still feel like this is breaking the law to some extent.

 

[LizzyM]

You do sliding scales- the 1% subsidize your lower paying patients. And cash only doesn't mean you are only serving wealthy clients. Most patients are more than willing to pay two or three times their regular copays for a doctor that actually has the time to listen, provide therapy, and prescribe appropriately, and they can still submit a claim to their insurance as an out of network provider to make up much of the difference (a 99213 will get about $60-120 of a patient's payment back). Given the choice between providing a larger number of people with less than adequate care or a smaller number of people with superior care, many psychiatrists prefer the latter. And perhaps the least ethical practices I've encountered are psychiatry pill mills that serve as many patients as possible with 10 minute med checks and numerous physician extenders to maximize insurance billing and put seven figures in the pocket of the owner while leaving clients on often nonsensical regimens and providing them with zero therapy.

Personally I think 30 minutes is enough, and I'm fine with insurance, but I do like to highlight that there's a lot of room to practice in the manner you want rather than those in which you would be forced to.

But the OP is talking about an inpatient practice of child and adolescent psych.

 

[7331poas]

I worked very briefly at what seemed to be an extremely profitable pain management “medical office” where there was 1 MD doctor (the main guy) plus about a dozen PRE-MEDS, or Pre-PharmD students seeing and counseling patients. The doctor did the actual procedure(aka mostly just giving injection$) while the rest of the “medical staff” did the rest, INCLUDING giving Rx recommendations.

I felt that the entire practice was so unethical, the epitome of greed, selfishness, and dishonesty, I quit after a week after seeing what the deal was. Patients were under the assumption that these were at least PAs. NOPE.

I still feel like this is breaking the law to some extent.

The **** some doctors are doing out in the community is the wild west. I think if the public really knew what went on in community medicine they would not be satisfied with the current arrangement of "doctors regulating themselves".

 

[BorderlineQueen]

I worked very briefly at what seemed to be an extremely profitable pain management “medical office” where there was 1 MD doctor (the main guy) plus about a dozen PRE-MEDS, or Pre-PharmD students seeing and counseling patients. The doctor did the actual procedure(aka mostly just giving injection$) while the rest of the “medical staff” did the rest, INCLUDING giving Rx recommendations.

I felt that the entire practice was so unethical, the epitome of greed, selfishness, and dishonesty, I quit after a week after seeing what the deal was. Patients were under the assumption that these were at least PAs. NOPE.

I still feel like this is breaking the law to some extent.

WHAT??

 

[Engrailed]

WHAT??

My thoughts exactly.
The PREMEDS were deciding dosages for meds and then having it reviewed by the dr before patients were checked out of the office.
Not to mention the Dr was extremely pushy in getting patients to sign up for $$$$$ injections.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

My thoughts exactly.
The PREMEDS were deciding dosages for meds and then having it reviewed by the dr before patients were checked out of the office.
Not to mention the Dr was extremely pushy in getting patients to sign up for $$$$$ injections.

I can only imagine if something truly horrendous happened to a pt this guy would have a major malpractice lawsuit on his hand.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Engrailed There are analogous types of setups in other professions unfortunately. Reminds me of the recent John Oliver take on compounding pharmacies and how they are not FDA regulated and one pharmacy was responsible for a meningitis outbreak in several hospitals back in 2012 as networks were using them as a supplier. I have seen and known of pharmacy techs who would do compounding who were still in high school with the pharmacist required the verify, but the pharmacist would just see that it was compounded and sign off on it.

 

[Sephirakra]

You do sliding scales- the 1% subsidize your lower paying patients. And cash only doesn't mean you are only serving wealthy clients. Most patients are more than willing to pay two or three times their regular copays for a doctor that actually has the time to listen, provide therapy, and prescribe appropriately, and they can still submit a claim to their insurance as an out of network provider to make up much of the difference (a 99213 will get about $60-120 of a patient's payment back). Given the choice between providing a larger number of people with less than adequate care or a smaller number of people with superior care, many psychiatrists prefer the latter. And perhaps the least ethical practices I've encountered are psychiatry pill mills that serve as many patients as possible with 10 minute med checks and numerous physician extenders to maximize insurance billing and put seven figures in the pocket of the owner while leaving clients on often nonsensical regimens and providing them with zero therapy.

Personally I think 30 minutes is enough, and I'm fine with insurance, but I do like to highlight that there's a lot of room to practice in the manner you want rather than those in which you would be forced to.

I have very limited experience with insurance billing - and none with respect to psychiatry - so this is very interesting to know. Thanks for the FYI.

 

[Mad Jack]

But the OP is talking about an inpatient practice of child and adolescent psych.

Yeah, I missed their subsequent posts. No clue why you would want to do "life changing work in which you really know your patients" if you're only going to see them briefly. Every inpatient psychiatrist accepts insurance and they have ample time to provide the sort of care OP wants to provide, you've got between 40 and 60 minutes per patient per day, more than enough to provide all the attention.

 

[Mad Jack]

I've noticed some crazy setups in primary care too. The new group my family sees in CA is like half a dozen PAs that do all the facetime with patients and a single MD who sits in the back providing signatures. The $$/effort ratio for these guys must be incredible.

Pretty much what the psych pill mills do. Oversight requirement is 10% of charts in this state, so 90% aren't reviewed, allowing you to do essentially 10x the work via extenders.

 

[sloop]

But it has something to do with how much time the physician can give each of them.

This has not been my experience, either.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I worked very briefly at what seemed to be an extremely profitable pain management “medical office” where there was 1 MD doctor (the main guy) plus about a dozen PRE-MEDS, or Pre-PharmD students seeing and counseling patients. The doctor did the actual procedure(aka mostly just giving injection$) while the rest of the “medical staff” did the rest, INCLUDING giving Rx recommendations.

I felt that the entire practice was so unethical, the epitome of greed, selfishness, and dishonesty, I quit after a week after seeing what the deal was. Patients were under the assumption that these were at least PAs. NOPE.

I still feel like this is breaking the law to some extent.

Yeah, the legality of this is highly questionable at best. Can premeds with no medical training give prescription recommendations? Counsel patients?

 

[Engrailed]

Yeah, the legality of this is highly questionable at best. Can premeds with no medical training give prescription recommendations? Counsel patients?

Apparently YES (?)
That entire practice was questionable at best. Dr pushing patients to get unnecessary injections (which, btw are not covered by in$surance)...
FWIW, he was prob bankrolling as his office was in a highly affluent part of town

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Wow, definitely the type of thing that makes you ask “Is that even legal” and be surprised when the answer is “yes”. How’s that for clinical experience as a premed? ‘Worked in a shady practice where I and other premeds recommended prescriptions and had them signed off by a doctor’.

 

[Engrailed]

Wow, definitely the type of thing that makes you ask “Is that even legal” and be surprised when the answer is “yes”. How’s that for clinical experience as a premed? ‘Worked in a shady practice where I and other premeds recommended prescriptions and had them signed off by a doctor’.

One of the first days on the job (I quit after a week) entailed being handed a packet of drugs/dosages etc and what to prescribe patients when they were complaining of X symptoms.
It was wild. For all the wrong reasons.

He is also one of those "celebrity" doctors or at least has a somewhat strong presence I guess. So I assume patients never question his practice, sadly.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

One of the first days on the job (I quit after a week) entailed being handed a packet of drugs/dosages etc and what to prescribe patients when they were complaining of X symptoms.
It was wild. For all the wrong reasons.

He is also one of those "celebrity" doctors or at least has a somewhat strong presence I guess. So I assume patients never question his practice, sadly.

I can already imagine how this malpractice case would turn out.
Lawyer- Dr. X is it true you let pre-meds and pre-pharm students recommend meds? Which is practicing medicine without a license?
Dr. X- Yes I let this go on.
Lawyer- How would a pre-pharm or pre-med student know what meds are contraindicated for a condition? How would they know what meds interact with each other? They don't know which is why Pre-med student X recommended medication Z. Which is contraindicated for the pts condition. Which is why the pts died.
Dr. X- Ugh
This would literally be a slam dunk malpractice case for a a lawyer.

 

[DNAJB6]

I worked very briefly at what seemed to be an extremely profitable pain management “medical office” where there was 1 MD doctor (the main guy) plus about a dozen PRE-MEDS, or Pre-PharmD students seeing and counseling patients. The doctor did the actual procedure(aka mostly just giving injection$) while the rest of the “medical staff” did the rest, INCLUDING giving Rx recommendations.

I felt that the entire practice was so unethical, the epitome of greed, selfishness, and dishonesty, I quit after a week after seeing what the deal was. Patients were under the assumption that these were at least PAs. NOPE.

I still feel like this is breaking the law to some extent.

That's the unauthorized practice of medicine and medical malpractice. If the physician was reported and sufficient corroboration/witnesses will back it up, the physician would likely lose his license.

 

[Engrailed]

That's the unauthorized practice of medicine and medical malpractice. If the physician was reported and sufficient corroboration/witnesses will back it up, the physician would likely lose his license.

I can already imagine how this malpractice case would turn out.
Lawyer- Dr. X is it true you let pre-meds and pre-pharm students recommend meds? Which is practicing medicine without a license?
Dr. X- Yes I let this go on.
Lawyer- How would a pre-pharm or pre-med student know what meds are contraindicated for a condition? How would they know what meds interact with each other? They don't know which is why Pre-med student X recommended medication Z. Which is contraindicated for the pts condition. Which is why the pts died.
Dr. X- Ugh
This would literally be a slam dunk malpractice case for a a lawyer.

So true. He ran the place like a business for sure. One of those who set up their own clinic, with a fancy business card designating him as the “President” of said medical office. When he was literally the only dr/ licensed professional there.

 

[Mad Jack]

I worked very briefly at what seemed to be an extremely profitable pain management “medical office” where there was 1 MD doctor (the main guy) plus about a dozen PRE-MEDS, or Pre-PharmD students seeing and counseling patients. The doctor did the actual procedure(aka mostly just giving injection$) while the rest of the “medical staff” did the rest, INCLUDING giving Rx recommendations.

I felt that the entire practice was so unethical, the epitome of greed, selfishness, and dishonesty, I quit after a week after seeing what the deal was. Patients were under the assumption that these were at least PAs. NOPE.

I still feel like this is breaking the law to some extent.

That's definitely illegal for both the provider and the underlings