Is Nursing A Good Major As PreMed?

[BlackSails]

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What about those of us who work in EMS? I will be a paramedic when I apply to med school. I've met some awesome ER physicians who started out as paramedics.

I dont think EMS counts as a major, so I doubt that it is included in the statistics. If you went to some college where you majored in emergency services or something similar, then you would be included in the category.

 

[Bacchus]

What about those of us who work in EMS? I will be a paramedic when I apply to med school. I've met some awesome ER physicians who started out as paramedics.

I was watching a documentary (the location of it escapes me) where the ER attendings are actually paramedics as well and they go to the scene. Talk about making use of the golden hour.

 

[Bacchus]

This isn't true... being a doctor is a different role in the patient's care and if a nurse decides they like the role of physician better most nurses understand....plenty of nurses become PAs, CNAs and NPs...its just a different role...i personally don't like the idea of being a mid level...

i think the animosity comes into play if the rn/md feels like he or she is too good be a nurse or that this now makes him/her better or smarter than other nurses...

i do agree with the begininng of your post though...if u get a nursing degree and don't use it at all then u may be looked down upon..but if u practice nursing for a year or two and then have a good reason for switching...it may not be that negative...

I was referring to him getting a BSN and not even going into nursing. If the said person had the intentions of going to medical school but was getting a BSN I think my friends (yay anecdotes) who are in the nursing curriculum would be a bit negative towards said person. I couldn't imagine doing clinicals with someone that doesn't "care" about the profession and is using it as a stepping stone.

On another note, with nurses in such high demand, I don't see the fairness of someone taking a seat in a class without the intention of doing service in the nursing field.

 

[BlackSails]

, I don't see the fairness of someone taking a seat in a class without the intention of doing service in the nursing field.

Neither do the med schools.

 

[Nasrudin]

Statisically, nursing majors (and other specialized prehealth majors) have the lowest acceptance rate among med school applicants.

Without quoting Twain's cliche pertaining to statistics, I can account for what I think the reasons are that would not be obvious to non-health care workers:

Once you work in health care it doesn't take you too long to see who the Rat Pack is. Physicians are the thinking people in the hospital and all of the other gigs are either the opening acts or the people who sweep the ballroom after the party is over. And everybody would rather belt out that they did their way to the awed fans than clean up the vomit in the bathroom.

So what this means is that everybody wants to be physicians. However it does not mean that everybody has the discipline or the academic chops to do so. And so for every smart DancingRN there are half a dozen nursing-by-the-numbers twits whose sense of glory is larger than their ability to perform. This is the same if not more so for the rest of us, so nothing against nursing as the driver of this statistic.

Essentially these statistics should not deter an individual in or wants to pursue nursing who's got the chops to make it. There are a variety of reasons and situations where scaling your goals in a step-wise fashion is the most prudent thing to do. If I had little Nasrudins to feed that is surely what I would have done and I gun it with any of you.

 

[Nasrudin]

Neither do the med schools.

My friend. It must be asked....

On what authority to you presume to know what you claim. You are completely matter of fact about something that there is little evidence for.

 

[Nasrudin]

I was referring to him getting a BSN and not even going into nursing. If the said person had the intentions of going to medical school but was getting a BSN I think my friends (yay anecdotes) who are in the nursing curriculum would be a bit negative towards said person. I couldn't imagine doing clinicals with someone that doesn't "care" about the profession and is using it as a stepping stone.

On another note, with nurses in such high demand, I don't see the fairness of someone taking a seat in a class without the intention of doing service in the nursing field.

Before we as citizens invest a million dollars into the education of a physician it comforts me to know that a nurse is well-suited to address the question of why medicine. For all the little jaded pricks out their in the field who imagined something entirely different than what they got this good enough reason alone to consider an RN applicant.

You reasoning is entirely marxist. Sure we should all fit perfectly into the larger picture of the collective imagination except one problem that would be tyranny. If you earn the seat in a nursing class because your grades are baangin and you speak 3 language take the sucker. Your 1-2 years of disciplined desire for professional service trumps 20 years of donut-sucking slackerdom. This is America. The place with a constitution that guarantees us the pursuit of the endeavors we seek. Go RN's! Kick butt in the icu for a year and onward and upward. Everybody wins.

 

[njbmd]

As a nurse applying for med school many years after nursing school I can give this advice...

1. nursing programs follow a tight schedule, make sure you can complete all your prerequisites for med school. Otherwise you'll be stuck doing post-bacc work while trying to work/apply.

2. do not underestimate that nurses are very pro-nursing, especially in academia. If you do this, you should be prepared to keep your medical school plans under wraps.

3. As earlier posts have mentioned, there is a profound nursing shortage in the US and the bottle-neck is that there are a very limited number of spots in RN training programs (both AA and BSN). If you do a nursing program, your application to medical school would look incomplete without a recommendation from your advisor or a key faculty member. If they feel that you misrepresented your interest in nursing to get into the program (because you often have to write a "Why Nursing?" essay to get in), they may not write you a great letter. If you shop around the school and can't find someone to write a great letter for you, your application could look incomplete. I worked as a nurse for quite a few years and my advisor was open to listening to me (although she tried to talk me out of going into medicine) and then she agreed to write me a strong letter. Other faculty in the program, however, won't talk to me now. I bring this up to let you know that many nurses in academia have very strongly negative feelings about nurses going into medicine (they want nurses to go the NP or DNP route and be nurse leaders).

Good luck

In answer to the OPs question:

There is NO specific "major" that is good or bad for medical school. As others have stated, nursing is as good as any major but the information in the above post is realistic and accurate.

Being a nurse can provide you with a means of an income while you are in the application stages but you are likely going to need to take a couple of years to complete the pre-med prereq courses and take the Medical College Admissions Test if you major in nursing. Since nursing courses are usually scheduled fairly tightly, you may be adding extra coursework to four years.

Another thing to consider is that nursing is a terminal degree which means that once you have completed nursing, you are expected to work as a nurse. Nursing is neither easy nor conducive to study and master of premed coursework. You may find yourself exhausted after working 8 or 12-hour shifts which will not leave you in a good position to head on over to the university to spend the afternoon in Chemistry class and lab.

You don't need letters from nursing faculty in order to apply to medical school. If you have them great but letters from your pre-med prereq professors are ideal for your letters of recommendation for medical school. None of the applicants that I have screened this year have letters from nursing faculty and all but one will receive interview invitations.

Nursing works for a "fall-back" if you don't get into medical school (as any allied health care profession) but nursing is very, very different from medicine and can take you in different directions which are time-consuming. As long as you know that up front, the pursue nursing if you find that it is something of interest to you.

Just declaring nursing as a major is not going to enhance your chances of acceptance to medical school or ruin your chances of acceptance into medical school. With any major, you have to meet the uGPA requirements and take the Medical College Admissions Test(do well). In addition, you need a good personal statement and excellent letters of recommendation from basic science professors who know you well.

 

[paranoid_eyes]

Without quoting Twain's cliche pertaining to statistics, I can account for what I think the reasons are that would not be obvious to non-health care workers:

Once you work in health care it doesn't take you too long to see who the Rat Pack is. Physicians are the thinking people in the hospital and all of the other gigs are either the opening acts or the people who sweep the ballroom after the party is over. And everybody would rather belt out that they did their way to the awed fans than clean up the vomit in the bathroom.

So what this means is that everybody wants to be physicians. However it does not mean that everybody has the discipline or the academic chops to do so. And so for every smart DancingRN there are half a dozen nursing-by-the-numbers twits whose sense of glory is larger than their ability to perform. This is the same if not more so for the rest of us, so nothing against nursing as the driver of this statistic.

Essentially these statistics should not deter an individual in or wants to pursue nursing who's got the chops to make it. There are a variety of reasons and situations where scaling your goals in a step-wise fashion is the most prudent thing to do. If I had little Nasrudins to feed that is surely what I would have done and I gun it with any of you.

brilliant description of the medical field. you sound like twain, but more blunt.

 

[Bacchus]

Before we as citizens invest a million dollars into the education of a physician it comforts me to know that a nurse is well-suited to address the question of why medicine. For all the little jaded pricks out their in the field who imagined something entirely different than what they got this good enough reason alone to consider an RN applicant.

I agree with this. I suppose we'll never reach an ideality where every medical school applicant knows, at a minimal level, what to expect. In this regard, the RN would be more prepared to answer "Why medicine?" He or she has indeed been through the grunt work of the hospital and has observed everything else going on.

You reasoning is entirely marxist. Sure we should all fit perfectly into the larger picture of the collective imagination except one problem that would be tyranny. If you earn the seat in a nursing class because your grades are baangin and you speak 3 language take the sucker. Your 1-2 years of disciplined desire for professional service trumps 20 years of donut-sucking slackerdom. This is America. The place with a constitution that guarantees us the pursuit of the endeavors we seek. Go RN's! Kick butt in the icu for a year and onward and upward. Everybody wins.

I'm not sure if I'm comprehending this how you are expecting me to. What I got out of this is if a nurse with one, two, or three years experience wants to apply to medical school, so be it. I hope this is correct.

If so, I again agree with you.

My point is, I don't think its fair to the nurses that are in school to be a nurse (for life) that people are using their major as a stepping stone for medical school. It is foolish for one to get a BSN in nursing and immediately apply to medical school in my eyes. The same goes for the students I go to school with that are getting DPT's, PharmD's, or MPA's and using it as a stepping stone for medical school. To those professionals that plan to practice physical therapy, pharmacy, or become a physician assistant I would think its a bit downgrading when people don't give the degree the respect it deserves. However, I guess the same could be said for those of us that are getting BS's or BA's in degrees that we will never use.

 

[Farmer Jane]

If I may, my primary problem with this concept is that there are precious few spots in nursing programs. I don't know of a single nursing program that accepts every applicant. Therefore, anyone taking up a spot while not intending to become and work as a nurse, is preventing someone else from becoming a nurse. I would feel differently if 1) there was no nursing shortage and 2) there were practically unlimited spots in nursing programs. Until that changes, however, I think it's pretty crappy to take a spot from someone who actually plans to be and work as a nurse and fill needed positions.

A side note: anyone who enters a nursing program with the attitude that physicians are stars and nurses are janitors is not going to be well-liked, and justifiably so. A more accurate metaphor would be that physicians are stars and nurses are stagehands, run the lights, etc. It is a valuable role in its own right, has its own set of knowledge, and does not deserve to be disparaged. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to be the star. That doesn't mean we're janitors.

If you become a nurse and then decide you want to be a physician, go for it. I think that's fantastic. Honestly I would love to have more former-nurses in medicine because the majority of physicians seem to have utterly no idea what nurses do. But if you want to be a physician, please be one. Don't prevent someone else from becoming a nurse because--take it from me--we desperately need all the nurses we can get.

 

[45408]

So what this means is that everybody wants to be physicians.

My friend. It must be asked....

On what authority to you presume to know what you claim. You are completely matter of fact about something that there is little evidence for.

 

[Farmer Jane]

My friend. It must be asked....

On what authority to you presume to know what you claim. You are completely matter of fact about something that there is little evidence for.

😍 I am very tempted to make you cookies for that.

 

[Miss Mab]

ARGHH!! I'm ticked because I just wrote a very lovely response to the articulate and professional discussion our Pre-Allos were having--and it went poof!!! Damn I hate that...

Anyway, I think it's great that adcom folks and a lot of you pre-meds can see the positives in pursuing a BSN prior to med school. If it weren't for the fact of overly impacted programs pretty much everywhere, I think it'd be great! More common ground never hurt anyone.

I do like that more and more schools are doing away with their Chem 101 and then another Chem 101 'for allied health' majors so that we are all getting some--at least at the lower division level anyway---science pre-reqs knocked out together.

I say--if there were more room we'd tak you all! But there ain't, so save the space for someone who can take my next shift!

BTW, a BSN is in no way the terminal degree and I'm also fairly certain that a nursing major at the bacculaureate level is not a technical vocational program.
I forget who said it but why would anyone ever think a BSN RN would not have a general foundation in philosophy, econ. or literature/etc? A nursing student requires the same two year general ed breadth requirements as any other major at a four year university. Yep, that's them, sitting next to you in "Art History--Cinema through the Ages" sophomore year--looking for the same easy A as anyone else?
I just that was so odd......
Good luck in your future careers! We need ya!

 

[Nasrudin]

My friend. It must be asked....

On what authority to you presume to know what you claim. You are completely matter of fact about something that there is little evidence for.

Of course this is not exactly correct. But it is metaphorically sound. If I recall you worked in EMS or healthcare and off you went, so let's quit playing footsie shall we...we're grown men.

 

[Nasrudin]

OK so my point of view is toward the extreme on the taking up of nursing spots. Truthfully I don't know how it is viewed so much as what I think about the rights of individuals to not be limited by such concerns. But all evidence in the form of reports from nurses and adcoms--some of which have responded here--taking up a spot in a nursing school and applying directly or shortly after graduation to medical school is not a problem. I simply take them at their word and invent my own causative explanation for low acceptance rates for allied health professionals.

 

[Farmer Jane]

Certainly every individual has the right to do what they want. The issue is greater than the individual, however, and affects everyone. The principle here is that by filling a spot in a tight program when you never intend to make it a career, you are essentially decreasing the number of nurses. Even if by only one, when there is a nursing shortage, that is wrong.

 

[dmprice2]

It doesnt matter as long as you get your pre-reqs. Committees will like to see some variety though...

 

[Zorrix]

What if someone gets an AA degree (RN) and then gets a Biology degree while working as nurse. Is that ok? Will med schools require transcripts from the AA degree as well as the Bio degree?

 

[Farmer Jane]

I can't speak to what medical schools would require, but I don't know why they wouldn't require transcripts.

If anyone wanted to go that route and actually spend several years working as a nurse, I personally have no problem with that. It's an honest plan and it results in another person working as a nurse, even if just for a few years. Plenty of nurses burn and out and leave after a few years anyway.

My only caveat is that while it may be a good financial move it would be very time consuming. Most ADN programs end up taking at least three years. Generally a student finishes all the pre-reqs, applies, then sits on a waiting list for a few semesters. Certainly the person could continue on with a biology degree during this time, but they would have to take a break from biology--at least for the most part--during the last two years of the ADN program. Even if you find the coursework in nursing easy, the actual classes (attendance counts) and clinicals are very time consuming and you'd be hard-pressed to fit in other college courses around them. So you'd essentially be putting your long-term education on hold for two years. On the other hand, after that was done it would be no problem to work part time as a nurse while completing your bachelor's degree, and it would make way more than your average college job. If you took time off between college and med school you could work, and during any time off during med school. Only each individual person can figure out if that sounds reasonable to them, but from my perspective it seems like a very convoluted path.

 

[mvenus929]

As a nursing student, you'll probably get a lot more clinical experience than most pre-meds ever get, which is valuable. As for stigma against nursing majors at the interview stage - as far as I know, English majors aren't chastised for not becoming writers, and economics majors aren't scolded for not becoming economists. Why should nursing be treated differently from any other major?

Because nursing is just as competitive as medicine. At my school, you have to sign up for clinicals in your freshman year, and will be lucky to get into them come your junior year. That's for a BSN. The RN programs in the area have a similar 2 year waiting list going on.

It's one thing to be a nurse, and then switch and decide to become a doctor. It's another to pursue a degree in nursing with the intention of going onto become a doctor.

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

Nursing is an excellent major in and of itself. However, any major outside the sciences means that you will be completing the medical prereqs on your own which in total almost amount to the load of a minor.

What school do you go to where a minor is 35 credits? My Biology major is only 35 credits of Bio courses.

 

[Nasrudin]

Certainly every individual has the right to do what they want. The issue is greater than the individual, however, and affects everyone. The principle here is that by filling a spot in a tight program when you never intend to make it a career, you are essentially decreasing the number of nurses. Even if by only one, when there is a nursing shortage, that is wrong.

That is a contradiction. You say simultaneously that it is not about individual right and then you turn around and say it's wrong for somebody to pursue what they want to do with themselves.

You argument correctly constructed would be: The community's need for nurses trumps the right of individuals to pursue other careers if they change their mind or are disingenuous if asked in an application procedure explicitly.

That's compelling but I think it is impossibly simplistic. Teachers give up the fight and get their law degree. Nusres get sick of tench warfare patient care and go to work for insurance companies. Businessmen get bored and become fireman. Doctors say to heck with the hassle and sell herbal boner pills on infomercials. And @ssholes like me think that because they have the instant gumption to become doctors midlife believe they should have the right to do so. That's the world I'm living in and that's the one I advocate for.

A couple of measley nursing spots be damned, especially if that nurse goes on to become a physician who is conscious of the help that pitter patter about constructing the sets.

 

[Crixivan]

As a nursing student, you'll probably get a lot more clinical experience than most pre-meds ever get...

This is not only true for premedical students. Such could be extended to students in the first two years of medical school as well. Clinical experience for student doctors is designed to take place after certain specialties may already be impossible for you to match. Nurses learn their requisite skills along side their didactic requirements.

The major that you declare doesn't matter much for medical school, and I have to say that after reading many of these posts, it didn't become much of an issue for my class because I wasn't admitted with anybody with a nursing degree (to my knowledge). I don't think that nurses were discriminated against, though. Instead, I just don't think that we had nurses apply with MCAT/GPA numbers typical of the pool that was eventually accepted. Based on the attitudes of my colleagues, getting a nursing degree would be seemingly beneath them.

In my school, nursing majors take Human Anatomy and Physiology, while pre-med majors take Human Physiology. HAP is much easier and less deep in terms of material and details. They also take a different sort of chemistry, that I've heard is easier than the pre-med chemistry (theirs is only 1 class, 1 lab, while ours is chem1, chem2, chemlab, o-chem1, ochem2, ochem lab). Nursing majors do NOT have to take any organic chemistry here, since they are only here for 2 years before transferring to the nursing campus.

Physiology isn't required for medical school, and I'm sure that the nursing school would take the pre-med sequence in lieu of the lower level courses (though they would know what you're up to). Regarding the med school prerequisites issue, a student could get all of the proper courses in before beginning the nursing sequence and still finish in 4 years if the proper planning takes place prior to beginning (though almost nobody chooses to get to medical school via this path at the onset of college).

On another note, with nurses in such high demand, I don't see the fairness of someone taking a seat in a class without the intention of doing service in the nursing field.

I don't really see doctors as being a particularly fair group of people, though. Every year, a bunch of medical students only somewhat interested in dermatology take residency spots away from true skinophiles while the derms simply turn to them and say, "If you want my spot, come and take it."

For every nurse who leaves the profession for medical school, there are probably many others who cut their careers short for family, dissapointment in being overworked, or general dissatisfaction with the career after they get a taste of it. Leaving the bedside to become a doc isn't much different than becoming an NP IMO.

Being a nurse won't help you get into medical school, but having actually seen somebody with COPD might become helpful later on when your medical school makes you learn about it from a textbook. While they don't get much credit for knowing pathophysiology, nurses would know more about how the hospital works as well as a lot of the vocabulary foreign to most preclinical medical students.

It would be a tricky path, but it is possible to complete a nursing degree as a pre-med. Just be sure you know what you're doing.

 

[Farmer Jane]

That is a contradiction. You say simultaneously that it is not about individual right and then you turn around and say it's wrong for somebody to pursue what they want to do with themselves.

Of course you (and everyone else) has the right to pursue a nursing degree. No one is stopping them. They will face no punishment. It is, however, an ethically questionable and even wrong thing to do. Plenty of things are perfectly legal but still shouldn't be done. That is not a contradiction.

 

[Farmer Jane]

The major that you declare doesn't matter much for medical school, and I have to say that after reading many of these posts, it didn't become much of an issue for my class because I wasn't admitted with anybody with a nursing degree (to my knowledge). I don't think that nurses were discriminated against, though. Instead, I just don't think that we had nurses apply with MCAT/GPA numbers typical of the pool that was eventually accepted.

It likely has more to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of nursing majors become nurses. We don't take the MCAT, we don't apply to medical school, anymore than you take the GRE and apply to a graduate level English program.

I don't really see doctors as being a particularly fair group of people, though. Every year, a bunch of medical students only somewhat interested in dermatology take residency spots away from true skinophiles while the derms simply turn to them and say, "If you want my spot, come and take it."

For every nurse who leaves the profession for medical school, there are probably many others who cut their careers short for family, dissapointment in being overworked, or general dissatisfaction with the career after they get a taste of it. Leaving the bedside to become a doc isn't much different than becoming an NP IMO.

No, that's not necessarily fair, but the people in question do actually become dermatologists. Would you be particularly impressed if they took up a derm residency with the intention of never practicing but rather going back for an engineering degree immediately after residency?

As for nurses leaving nursing, yes, they do. I'm trying to leave myself. But I think becoming a nurse and changing or tweaking careers is a far cry from what we're talking about: taking up a spot in a nursing program when you never intend to actually be a nurse. That's disingenuous at best.

 

[BlackSails]

Without quoting Twain's cliche pertaining to statistics, I can account for what I think the reasons are that would not be obvious to non-health care workers:

Once you work in health care it doesn't take you too long to see who the Rat Pack is. Physicians are the thinking people in the hospital and all of the other gigs are either the opening acts or the people who sweep the ballroom after the party is over. And everybody would rather belt out that they did their way to the awed fans than clean up the vomit in the bathroom.

So what this means is that everybody wants to be physicians. However it does not mean that everybody has the discipline or the academic chops to do so. And so for every smart DancingRN there are half a dozen nursing-by-the-numbers twits whose sense of glory is larger than their ability to perform. This is the same if not more so for the rest of us, so nothing against nursing as the driver of this statistic.

Essentially these statistics should not deter an individual in or wants to pursue nursing who's got the chops to make it. There are a variety of reasons and situations where scaling your goals in a step-wise fashion is the most prudent thing to do. If I had little Nasrudins to feed that is surely what I would have done and I gun it with any of you.

This is utterly false. Since it requires very little effort to submit a primary application, if everyone wanted to be a doctor, everyone would apply.

They dont, and they dont. The statistics should not deter a nurse who wants to be a doctor from applying, but to the question "Is nursing a good major for a premed" the answer is soundly "no."

Again going by the statistics, Math and Physical science majors have the highest aggregate MCAT and average GPAs.

 

[Crixivan]

It likely has more to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of nursing majors become nurses. We don't take the MCAT, we don't apply to medical school, anymore than you take the GRE and apply to a graduate level English program.

Agreed. I don't think that many nurses apply for medical school.

No, that's not necessarily fair, but the people in question do actually become dermatologists. Would you be particularly impressed if they took up a derm residency with the intention of never practicing but rather going back for an engineering degree immediately after residency?

You can do a lot with a nursing degree (advanced practice nurse, midwife, CRNA, case manager, etc.) that essentially increases the shortage of med/surg nurses. Sure, those people are still "nurses," but they're leaving traditional nursing for greener pastures. The derm (many of whom I'm sure already have engineering degrees) could become an engineer, and somebody else would just soak up the work with midlevels or overtime (which docs really don't get paid extra for). Dermatologists actually ensure their own shortage intentionally to increase the demand for their services, and there is probably just as high of a percentage of people going into nursing today for the wrong reasons as derms. Nursing compensation has gone up tremendously in recent years because of the shortage.

The real shortage in medicine is in rural primary care because there are many doctors who simply quit doing it after a short career. Sometimes your career choice just isn't what you thought it would be, and it's a reasonable sell to an adcom that you just didn't care for nursing after you tried it.

...taking up a spot in a nursing program when you never intend to actually be a nurse. That's disingenuous at best.

I'm not sure how you determine how many years of service is necessary before someone has met the moral debt incurred by taking up somebody's seat. For all I know, there might be people going into nursing thinking that it will help them marry a physician.

This is an interesting philosophical debate, but I somehow believe that if you post a 33 MCAT score with a decent GPA, whatever medical school serves your state will most likely admit you. I'm sure that there are parts of the country in which there exists a shortage of medical students who can pass their USMLE the first time around, so if you come with the numbers that suggest to the adcom that you measure up to the other doctor wannabes, somebody will give you a shot.

If somebody actually has some evidence that an adcom member is going to downgrade your application in the face of good numbers because you enrolled in a nursing program, didn't care for it, and decided on medicine as a result of the clinical exposure nursing education yielded, I'd like to see it.

 

[45408]

Of course this is not exactly correct. But it is metaphorically sound. If I recall you worked in EMS or healthcare and off you went, so let's quit playing footsie shall we...we're grown men.

You can assume nothing of the sort. I went into EMS with the express intent of further going on into medical school. You would be extremely misguided to assume that all health care professionals actually want to be doctors instead of their chosen profession. A grown man doesn't make assumptions about other people's professional goals, and he also doesn't post information without citing a source. You were awfully quick to jump down someone else's back, but now you're backpedaling.

 

[Nasrudin]

This is an interesting philosophical debate, but I somehow believe that if you post a 33 MCAT score with a decent GPA, whatever medical school serves your state will most likely admit you. I'm sure that there are parts of the country in which there exists a shortage of medical students who can pass their USMLE the first time around, so if you come with the numbers that suggest to the adcom that you measure up to the other doctor wannabes, somebody will give you a shot.

If somebody actually has some evidence that an adcom member is going to downgrade your application in the face of good numbers because you enrolled in a nursing program, didn't care for it, and decided on medicine as a result of the clinical exposure nursing education yielded, I'd like to see it.

This is exactly the point I am trying unsuccessfully to make. We are protected as individuals from the moral majority and thank god for that otherwise my interracial marriage would be and abomination and my gay friends would live in fear for their lives and the civil rights movement would have never happened. People might think I'm insane for making that connection but a moral argument against an individuals free will is quite similar in structure and essence.

No I don't have a nice pie chart and mounds of data or an exact lawyerly argument with the appropriate Greek logistical terms. End of debate for me. Good luck peoples.

 

[Nasrudin]

You can assume nothing of the sort. I went into EMS with the express intent of further going on into medical school. You would be extremely misguided to assume that all health care professionals actually want to be doctors instead of their chosen profession. A grown man doesn't make assumptions about other people's professional goals, and he also doesn't post information without citing a source. You were awfully quick to jump down someone else's back, but now you're backpedaling.

I'm back pedaling because I was never trying to assert the factual nature of a metaphor. My source is my own imagination and my 5 years working in various health care jobs at the bottom of the food chain. I wasn't jumping on anyone's back with my assumptions. They were wild and intentionally sloppy for descriptive analysis only as tangential conjecture to explain what would seem to indicate disadvantage due to lower acceptance rates for nurses. My only assertion that pertains to what is being discussed is that there seems to be ample testimonials to the effect that a nursing applicant is not a disadvantage--this from people who are presenting themselves as adcoms and successful nursing applicants--And that it is not amoral to take up a nursing spot and then move on to something else. Furthermore, that morality should not be used as a criteria; if nursing schools want to protect their interests in providing numbers in the field maybe they should enter into a contract with their applicants. People here seem to disagree with that and I respect that.

Debating is not my thing. Farewell then Prowler.

 

[Bacchus]

This thread is over-producing hot air. Everyone should just come heat my apartment.

 

[futuredrcrawfor]

My only concern is that at my state school all the Nursing classes are lower level than the general science majors- so they take 1 sem of gen chem (not even called gen chem though) and 1 sem of a reduced 100 level organic. They never take any of the things medical schools consider pre-reqs.

Maybe your school is different but just check that out! But I would think nursing would be a fun major since you actually see patients as an undergrad!

 

[45408]

This thread is over-producing hot air. Everyone should just come heat my apartment.

Somebody could make a lot of money selling all those $10 words.

 

[Bacchus]

My only concern is that at my state school all the Nursing classes are lower level than the general science majors- so they take 1 sem of gen chem (not even called gen chem though) and 1 sem of a reduced 100 level organic. They never take any of the things medical schools consider pre-reqs.

Maybe your school is different but just check that out! But I would think nursing would be a fun major since you actually see patients as an undergrad!

I will agree with this, but the nursing population is being geared towards a job after the BS, whereas medical students will get specialized education later on. I looked at my friend's curriculum, a nursing major (plans of NP, I think), and it looks difficult and don't think it should be discounted.*

*I don't think you're discounting it, but I would say the courses (majority) are different, not lower.

 

[futuredrcrawfor]

I will agree with this, but the nursing population is being geared towards a job after the BS, whereas medical students will get specialized education later on. I looked at my friend's curriculum, a nursing major (plans of NP, I think), and it looks difficult and don't think it should be discounted.*

*I don't think you're discounting it, but I would say the courses (majority) are different, not lower.

I agree that courses are different but i know at my school the courses in chemistry are MUCH lower- I have friends who are pre-med and tutor the 2 courses needed for nursing and they say it is basically like pre-med Gen Chem 1 for a half a semester and then the first 4 weeks of Organic Chemistry 1 (except nursing majors do it over a year).

However, the other courses are great- I wish my school would let biology majors take the nursing anatomy and physiology courses because they have much better professors (actually an MD who isn't allowed to teach Bio majors since he has a "technical degree") and cover more relevant material than the Physiology course that is 4000 level here.

I have several nursing friends and they always tell me cool things they are learning in patho and pharm and I am so ready to hit stuff like that instead of Ecology or Evolutionary Bio!

 

[Zorrix]

RN not BSN and bio major
What if someone gets an AA degree (RN) and then gets a Biology degree while working as nurse. Is that ok? Will med schools use your GPA from the AA degree (Nursing) as well as the Bio degree?

 

[Lokhtar]

Be a math major at an engineering school and **** up your GPA like some of us. 😛

But really, pick the major you want. As long as you can do all the pre-reqs and maybe throw a couple of upper levels, I don't think it will matter.

 

[Daddy07]

I am a nursing major that will graduate with my BSN in May. I have been accepted to 2 MD schools so far and I feel like being a nursing student has really helped me. What I have to say to the OP is do whatever you feel will boost your chances of getting into medical school! It's all about making yourself unique and competitive. I actually started undergrad in Mechanical Engineering before switching my major to Nursing when I decided I wanted to go to medical school. And so part of my reasoning for doing nursing was as a stepping stone. When I discovered how profound my interest for the health field was, I made the most of every class and clinical experience I've had. When I took pharmacology I really put in the extra effor to learn mechanisms of action and not just that drug X treats disease Y. Yes, I had classmates that didn't care about learning material as in depth, but they also did not have intentions of pursuing education beyond the undergraduate level. My point is that you can make the most of every class, regardless of major. I have known plenty of other pre-meds that simply put in the effort to get a good grade on a test, but their retention is crap. You can be just as prepared for medical school, if not more so than other applicants, with a nursing degree. In fact, I bet I could probably rattle off more mechanisms of action than many of the other pre-meds on here.
On another note, I don't feel at all bad about taking a spot in the nursing program. I have always disclosed my intentions of going onto medical school, and have not had one classmate, professor, or co-worker demonstrate any anomosity towards me for doing so. In fact quite the contrary. I've had professors in the school of nursing write letters of recommendation for me for scholarships and for medical school.
We all come to college to figure out what we want to do with our lives/careers, and many of us don't become what we initially set out to do. Therefore, we have all taken a spot that could have otherwise been filled by someone else who intended on making that discipline into a career. The difference is, we were all more qualified and thus got the spot. None of the biology majors on here intend to become biologists and so aren't they using biology as a stepping stone and taking a spot? The difference is that this particular undergraduate degree is just a more common pre-med path. The only way any of us could not take a spot is by getting a "Pre-med" undergraduate degree.
Yes there may be a nursing shortage, but it is good for the career of a nurse. It drives up salaries and opens all kinds of windows for those who do choose nursing careers. Additionally, it helps society realize the importance of the nurse. Once a particular discipline eliminates shortage, it is very bad for those in such a career. So although I may not be helping to solve the nursing shortage, there shouldn't be any nurses out there that resent me for not doing so.

 

[45408]

RN not BSN and bio major
What if someone gets an AA degree (RN) and then gets a Biology degree while working as nurse. Is that ok? Will med schools use your GPA from the AA degree (Nursing) as well as the Bio degree?

Sure, it's okay, but yes, they will use your previous GPA averaged in with your later grades. They average in ALL of your undergraduate coursework, even if you were taking college classes in high school.

 

[katrina]

I am a nursing major that will graduate with my BSN in May. I have been accepted to 2 MD schools so far and I feel like being a nursing student has really helped me. What I have to say to the OP is do whatever you feel will boost your chances of getting into medical school! It's all about making yourself unique and competitive. I actually started undergrad in Mechanical Engineering before switching my major to Nursing when I decided I wanted to go to medical school. And so part of my reasoning for doing nursing was as a stepping stone. When I discovered how profound my interest for the health field was, I made the most of every class and clinical experience I've had. When I took pharmacology I really put in the extra effor to learn mechanisms of action and not just that drug X treats disease Y. Yes, I had classmates that didn't care about learning material as in depth, but they also did not have intentions of pursuing education beyond the undergraduate level. My point is that you can make the most of every class, regardless of major. I have known plenty of other pre-meds that simply put in the effort to get a good grade on a test, but their retention is crap. You can be just as prepared for medical school, if not more so than other applicants, with a nursing degree. In fact, I bet I could probably rattle off more mechanisms of action than many of the other pre-meds on here.
On another note, I don't feel at all bad about taking a spot in the nursing program. I have always disclosed my intentions of going onto medical school, and have not had one classmate, professor, or co-worker demonstrate any anomosity towards me for doing so. In fact quite the contrary. I've had professors in the school of nursing write letters of recommendation for me for scholarships and for medical school.
We all come to college to figure out what we want to do with our lives/careers, and many of us don't become what we initially set out to do. Therefore, we have all taken a spot that could have otherwise been filled by someone else who intended on making that discipline into a career. The difference is, we were all more qualified and thus got the spot. None of the biology majors on here intend to become biologists and so aren't they using biology as a stepping stone and taking a spot? The difference is that this particular undergraduate degree is just a more common pre-med path. The only way any of us could not take a spot is by getting a "Pre-med" undergraduate degree.
Yes there may be a nursing shortage, but it is good for the career of a nurse. It drives up salaries and opens all kinds of windows for those who do choose nursing careers. Additionally, it helps society realize the importance of the nurse. Once a particular discipline eliminates shortage, it is very bad for those in such a career. So although I may not be helping to solve the nursing shortage, there shouldn't be any nurses out there that resent me for not doing so.

Congrats!
Good luck in your career. I am sure you understand how much your maturity and work experience will help you in the future. You are way ahead of your peers.

 

[dancinRN1022]

I am a nursing major that will graduate with my BSN in May. I have been accepted to 2 MD schools so far and I feel like being a nursing student has really helped me. What I have to say to the OP is do whatever you feel will boost your chances of getting into medical school! It's all about making yourself unique and competitive. I actually started undergrad in Mechanical Engineering before switching my major to Nursing when I decided I wanted to go to medical school. And so part of my reasoning for doing nursing was as a stepping stone. When I discovered how profound my interest for the health field was, I made the most of every class and clinical experience I've had. When I took pharmacology I really put in the extra effor to learn mechanisms of action and not just that drug X treats disease Y. Yes, I had classmates that didn't care about learning material as in depth, but they also did not have intentions of pursuing education beyond the undergraduate level. My point is that you can make the most of every class, regardless of major. I have known plenty of other pre-meds that simply put in the effort to get a good grade on a test, but their retention is crap. You can be just as prepared for medical school, if not more so than other applicants, with a nursing degree. In fact, I bet I could probably rattle off more mechanisms of action than many of the other pre-meds on here.
On another note, I don't feel at all bad about taking a spot in the nursing program. I have always disclosed my intentions of going onto medical school, and have not had one classmate, professor, or co-worker demonstrate any anomosity towards me for doing so. In fact quite the contrary. I've had professors in the school of nursing write letters of recommendation for me for scholarships and for medical school.
We all come to college to figure out what we want to do with our lives/careers, and many of us don't become what we initially set out to do. Therefore, we have all taken a spot that could have otherwise been filled by someone else who intended on making that discipline into a career. The difference is, we were all more qualified and thus got the spot. None of the biology majors on here intend to become biologists and so aren't they using biology as a stepping stone and taking a spot? The difference is that this particular undergraduate degree is just a more common pre-med path. The only way any of us could not take a spot is by getting a "Pre-med" undergraduate degree.
Yes there may be a nursing shortage, but it is good for the career of a nurse. It drives up salaries and opens all kinds of windows for those who do choose nursing careers. Additionally, it helps society realize the importance of the nurse. Once a particular discipline eliminates shortage, it is very bad for those in such a career. So although I may not be helping to solve the nursing shortage, there shouldn't be any nurses out there that resent me for not doing so.

very nicely said!!!! congrats and good luck!!!

 

[brianmartin]

None of the biology majors on here intend to become biologists and so aren't they using biology as a stepping stone and taking a spot?

Sure they are. They're also less well-rounded than other applicants. Pre-meds who are nursing majors are even LESS well-rounded than other applicants. Honestly, why not cut the facade of getting a college education and just have a high school-to-MD path for everyone? Wouldn't that be more efficient? Why waste all that time on silly humanities requirements?

The entire reason med schools accept people from all majors is to train physicians who know something about the world and can be good citizens as well as good doctors. Although we will dedicate a large portion of our lives to medicine, we will still have a big chunk devoted to the outside world--to family, friends, hobbies, citizenhood.

I'm sorry but a person that enters school at age 5, and leaves at age 21-22 with only science and nursing classes, without ever having learned about philosophy, psychology, history, international issues, is going to have a smaller mental horizon and thus less ability to relate to people and the world in general.

That's why we DON'T rely solely on direct admission from high school, and why we have such good physicians. It seems to me like majoring in "nursing" is almost like a direct admit. All the physiology/anatomy/pharmacology you learn in nursing school will be covered in med school anyway...and the clinical experience in nursing school pales in comparison to 3rd and 4th years of med school, so I don't really see the advantage, outside of someone exploring their options and finding out they don't really like nursing (which is totally acceptable).

I think if you want to try nursing, and really think you might like to do it, go to nursing school. But if you are just doing it as a "stepping stone" to med school...why??? I don't get it. I think some people just think they won't make it in med school and want to test themselves in nursing school first.

 

[Farmer Jane]

Brian, as irked as I may be about people entering a nursing program with no intent to ever become a nurse, I have to point out a fallacy in your argument. What in the world makes you think that nursing majors don't have a general education? A nursing major is required to complete gen eds just like every other student in a university. There's no exception for nursing majors to avoid history courses.

 

[Daddy07]

Brian, as irked as I may be about people entering a nursing program with no intent to ever become a nurse, I have to point out a fallacy in your argument. What in the world makes you think that nursing majors don't have a general education? A nursing major is required to complete gen eds just like every other student in a university. There's no exception for nursing majors to avoid history courses.

This is very true brian. I have taken 3 semesters of psychology, 2 of sociology, philosophy, ethics, and many others. It seems to me that you speak without really knowing what the major entails.
Being in nursing has opened so many windows to help make me a more rounded individual. Not only does the major require extensive interaction with others, but many windows have opened as far as service project opportunities. I have helped organize and run a pediatric Halloween party over the last 3 years, volunteered to assist with clinical research, and am currently working on a project to teach bicycle safety to all of an elementary schools 1st and 2nd graders. Also, this elementary school has a poverty level of 85% and so I am writing for a grant to be able to give each student a helmet. Not only this, but I've worked as a Nurse Tech for the last 2 years and served so many patients in the community that I can't hardly go out anymore without seeing someone I've helped care for. All this has been made available to me through nursing! I'd say I'm pretty well-rounded then, wouldn't you? At least as well-rounded as anyone else and not "LESS" as you say.

And Thank You to DancinRN and Katrina!

 

[mimi2kul]

For all of you who think nursing is not a philosophical rounded major...here is a link to Texas Tech University-school of nursing pre-requisite courses where i am a proud alumni from.
http://www.ttuhsc.edu/son/undergrad/bsn.aspx

And yes most nursing schools will consider introduction to chemistry in place of general chemistry...the point is, you have the free will to choose whatever level chemistry you complete. As for me, i did the same chemistry any pre-med will take. The truth is med schools like a very diverse class so that each and every student can benefit from their classmate's expert knowledge on a subject. i will benefit from a biochem, math , engineer med student same way they will benefit from me being a nurse in class projects.

people say pharm/patho/clinical rotations are all coverd in med school so why waste time in nursing? the answer is biochem, genetics, immunology, hematology are all covered in depth as well in med school so why do schools still recommend you take them? my educated guess is any pre-knowledge obtain about a subject will only help you master them better.

That being said...goodluck to all the majors out there. a major in nursing is no way a disadvantage in the eyes of the adcoms i personal can not imagine my self being anything else than a Nurse who now will become a medical doctor someday. My intense healthcare exposure has replaced my naivety with maturity that could only be provided by my experience as a nursing student and now a nurse.

Good luck guys!!!!

 

[BlackSails]

That being said...goodluck to all the majors out there. a major in nursing is no way a disadvantage in the eyes of the adcoms

The statistics say otherwise

 

[Crixivan]

The statistics say otherwise

Can you site statistics that show people with nursing majors get accepted less frequently independent of MCAT score and GPA?

Regarding the well-rounded education, I can't see how taking more liberal arts courses would have helped me as a medical student.

 

[mimi2kul]

The statistics say otherwise

you must understand that not too many nurses apply to med school compare to the 50,000 biology and other hard course science majors out there. what ever you are, be unique. i make my self distinct and stay persistent.
nursing is great, as for the op, do not let anyone tell u otherwise...do want ever your heart falls for but make sure you shine with it.

 

[erica31]

I think nurses are awesome-- I have friends that are nurses. That being said, if the final goal is to enter med school, I would not recommend the major.

At my undergrad, nurses had a different curriculum than bio majors, premeds, chem etc. The required courses for nursing, did NOT fulfill medical pre-reqs. The nurses only took the 1st of the 2 inorganic classes, and no ochem or physics.

You could do the nursing major (which is rigorous in itself) and also taken the med school pre-reqs. But is it worth it? Also, the last 1.5 years of nursing you are away at clinicals.. which would limit the time to take the pre-reqs.

It just seems like going down a different track than med school. If you still choose to do so... just enjoy that the focus of your interview will likely be why you chose to leave nursing and desire to be a doctor.