docbill said:
Mohammed wouldn't fight?
Is 'resurrecting' Jesus & Mohammed offensive?
- Thread starter ofthesun
- Start date
Mohammed wouldn't fight?
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 1
THP said:
Clearly if one takes a phil of religions course, one would know that the true believes of Islam, Judiasm, Christianity are clearly different/sometimes opposite to what we see today.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 1
The correct answer would be:
"Does it really matter? Isn't it true that if I resurrect anyone of these men, that I would get a publication in Nature and Science and prob get the nobel prize for medicine???"
"Does it really matter? Isn't it true that if I resurrect anyone of these men, that I would get a publication in Nature and Science and prob get the nobel prize for medicine???"
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,362
- Reaction score
- 18
Panda Bear said:
Wow, a summation of Panda Bear in a concise, 6 word sentence.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,362
- Reaction score
- 18
Panda Bear said:
Look ma! Look what tha intranets done fer me!!
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 1
THP said:
Well you keep asking that same question.
It looks like you already know YOUR answer, so do you really need someone to confirm your beliefs? I would much rather not feed this need of yours with a useless answer (except with this one that I just typed out).
8
8744
docbill said:
"Moslem" is an accepted variant. I have seen it spelled like this numerous times. It's the same as saying "Beijing" vs. "Peking" or "Athena" vs. "Athens."
If Mohammed believed in peace and forgiveness, what's with all this Jihad stuff I keep hearing about?
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2003
- Messages
- 8,362
- Reaction score
- 18
Panda Bear said:
Look at me!! I listen to talk radio, ooohhh!!
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 1
Panda Bear said:
There are great differences between, TRUE religious philosophy, fanatics-extremists, ignorance and fact.
My mistake, I took the bait on this thread and now I will back out of it and let the SMART people/adults discuss this issue to death
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 0
As with Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him), the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was a humble and simple man sent to bring a message of peace to a violent and blood thirsty community at the time. He preached his message of submission to God (this is what Islam means literally) and there were many people against him.
Make no mistake, the Jihad is a self struggle first, and then second it is a defensive mechanism. The stuff you see today is done by people who don't understand Islam, and they think they are doing Jihad. Islam is a religion that is clearly against hurting anyone. Taking the life of one person is as if you have taken the life of all of humanity.
That being said, there are a lot of narrow minded and uneducated people out there who give Islam and Muslims (followers of Islam) a bad name.
Finally, Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) never launched attacks on anyone, rather people (pagan Arabs) tried to kill him and his followers (Imam Ali alayhis salam) on many occasions. Unfortunately, too many people in today's world have tried to use Islam as a shield to carry out their twisted and perverted agenda.
-N
Make no mistake, the Jihad is a self struggle first, and then second it is a defensive mechanism. The stuff you see today is done by people who don't understand Islam, and they think they are doing Jihad. Islam is a religion that is clearly against hurting anyone. Taking the life of one person is as if you have taken the life of all of humanity.
That being said, there are a lot of narrow minded and uneducated people out there who give Islam and Muslims (followers of Islam) a bad name.
Finally, Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) never launched attacks on anyone, rather people (pagan Arabs) tried to kill him and his followers (Imam Ali alayhis salam) on many occasions. Unfortunately, too many people in today's world have tried to use Islam as a shield to carry out their twisted and perverted agenda.
-N
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 5,168
- Reaction score
- 139
Nabipbuh said:
tifa said:
Yes this is the problem with religion in general. Most religions are taken out of context by extremists. Christianity and the Catholic Church are no different. A lot of people get blindsided and misinterpret religious writings to serve their political propaganda. That's my problem with overly religiously closed minded people. But this is why i normally don't discuss my religious beliefs with anyone.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2005
- Messages
- 333
- Reaction score
- 52
Nabipbuh said:
from your speech, I gather you are a muslim...are you a shi'ite? I'm just wondering since you speak of Imam Ali. Or maybe this was just a reference to rightly guided caliphs and their successors?
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2004
- Messages
- 61
- Reaction score
- 0
It might hurt you because it is so very very unoriginal -
I bet everyone wants to bring back these guys...
Billy Shakes and Ben Franklin would be pretty fun guests...
other than these guys or freddy and god, perhaps, you could do some others...
Like Groucho and Karl, Hitler and Einstein, Ghandi and Malcom X,
Skinny and Fat Elvis, the list goes on and on.....
Or, invite Mr. Santorum to a ressurection of freddy mercury and oscar wilde - I bet that would be awesome and hilarious!
I bet everyone wants to bring back these guys...
Billy Shakes and Ben Franklin would be pretty fun guests...
other than these guys or freddy and god, perhaps, you could do some others...
Like Groucho and Karl, Hitler and Einstein, Ghandi and Malcom X,
Skinny and Fat Elvis, the list goes on and on.....
Or, invite Mr. Santorum to a ressurection of freddy mercury and oscar wilde - I bet that would be awesome and hilarious!
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 0
USCguy said:
I am an admirer of the Islamic faith. I mentioned Imam Ali alayhis salam as he was one name that came to mind. Certainly the Holy Prophet pbuh had many great supporters and companions.
Thanks for writing.
-N
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2004
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 135
N thanks for a very good post
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2006
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 0
Thank you for your comments!!
I am fortunate to have great colleagues on this forum. I hope I have helped quell any misconceptions about Islam, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and Islamic practices.
God Bless You All!
-N
I am fortunate to have great colleagues on this forum. I hope I have helped quell any misconceptions about Islam, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and Islamic practices.
God Bless You All!
-N
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 218
- Reaction score
- 2
Panda Bear said:
My guy?
I just don't think they'd be kicking each others asses if they met.
And you totally do have issues. Serious ones too. You should go see someone....
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 218
- Reaction score
- 2
Panda Bear said:
Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet. They also believe Mohammad was a prophet. I don't see how that relegates Jesus to a minor theological player.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2006
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 3
Muhammad and Jesus are both leaders that lived greater and more influential lives than anyone on this forum for damn sure. They also both tried to pass a message of love to humanity, notwithstanding the fact that people have since corrupted those messages.
As for the person I would pick, I would choose Panda Bear. His nagging, whining posts offer a great source of pleasure to the readers on SDN.
As for the person I would pick, I would choose Panda Bear. His nagging, whining posts offer a great source of pleasure to the readers on SDN.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 218
- Reaction score
- 2
u_r_my_serenity said:
Ur right. As much as I dislike the guy, he'd be a good pick to dissect.
8
8744
lilmissangel said:
Islam and Christianity are theologically incompatible. You cannot be a practicing moslem and a devout Christian at the same time. Sorry.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 218
- Reaction score
- 2
Panda Bear said:
We accept your apology for your rude comments thus far...
but I dont think anyone said anything about being a practicing Muslim and a devout Christian at the same time...
8
8744
lilmissangel said:
Why do you think Christ would "get along" with Mohammed or vice versa?
By "sorry," I mean that I'm sorry you are misinformed.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2004
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 135
Panda Bear said:
Panda Bear, you are very ignorant. Did you even read the previous posts? they would both get along because they both serve a msg of peace and being good and ethical human beings
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Messages
- 84
- Reaction score
- 0
Panda Bear said:
Jesus Christ did not bring Christianity. And according to Muslims, they are part of the same divine message. So, depending on your view of things, they could indeed get along quite fine. Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah, one of the greatest Prophets of God, was born of miraculous birth, and performed many miracles.
8
8744
mostwanted said:
Dude. Christ brought a message of salvation through, and only through, a belief in Him. I'm sorry if this contradicts your politically correct education but that's the truth of Christianity. Ignorant or not, I have read and still read my Bible every night and nowhere does it say that all beliefs are equal and that the Lord does not care who you worship.
What you have done is internalized only the parts of Christianity which jibe with your own beliefs and ignored the rest. Acceptance of Christ to the exclusion of all other false idols is absolutely required of a Christian. If you don't believe this then church is just another social event where you can display your tolerance. Or worse, just another branch of the welfare office.
Now, you may believe it or not as is your right and I certainly have no desire to interfere with your beliefs. I just don't care. If you, for example, wrote a post saying that Mohammed was the Only Prophet of God and every one who thinks otherwise is an infidel dog I'd let it pass without comment because this would be your deeply held belief which I can respect. But your attempt to stuff two of the world's great faiths into the same bag for fear of giving offense is laughable, as is your lack of understanding of the history of both Christianity and Islam.
If I were a Moslem I'd be equally offended.
8
8744
qr321 said:
Christians believe that Christ is both the Son of God and God Himself. Moslems, god love 'em, do not. Most Christians are not keen on relegating Christ to the proverbial second string. If they were they'd be Moslems.
Is that hard to understand? There are differences between religions, you know.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 218
- Reaction score
- 2
Panda Bear said:
I deliberately misinterpreted your "sorry". I might be young, but I'm not stupid.
And why wouldn't they get along?
As a Muslim, I believe they were carrying the same message, but at different points in history...so if they did happen to be at the same place at the same time, then they would undoubtedly agree.
As a Christian, you would believe that they are preaching very different messages, so they would probably not agree, but you can hardly argue that Jesus, being "God" would 'kick' anybodys ass.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2004
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 135
Panda Bear said:
i wasn't trying to stuff the two faiths in the same bag. i was saying they both brought a msg of peace. And if you respect someone's deeply held beliefs so much, then you wouldn't have made such a disrespectful comment.
if i was Christian i would be equally offended, cuz that is not wht Jesus (pbuh) taught.
as far as understanding the history of bible, ur knowledge is well demonstrated by your comments. i would recommend a new book that came out in 2005 by Bart Ehrman, here is the link
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
- Messages
- 5,316
- Reaction score
- 3,597
The only choices are Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, and John Wayne.
8
8744
qr321 said:
Oh man. That is so idiotic on so many levels that it boggles the mind. If you go to an expensive university you need to ask for a refund.
8
8744
lilmissangel said:
Pure-D politcally correct pesudo-intellectual BS. Let me try one more time. Christ is both the Son of God and God who suffered on the Cross, died, and was ressurected. This belief is so fundamental to Christianity that to not believe it is not to be a Christian. Leaving aside Mohammed, Christ says explicitely that He is the only way to salvation and everlasting life.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2004
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 135
qr321 said:
i agree. again that book i mentioned earlier might give you a little insight.
8
8744
qr321 said:
To say that Christ had nothing to do with Christian theology is ludicrous as our theology is an intepretation of the actions and words of Christ. Obviously nobody had a tape recorder back then so imperfect creatures as we are we rely on the interpretation of the Gospels by the early fathers of the church who struggled mightily to encompass the Word in the imperfect vessel of language. I think only the ignoratti believe that the Bible sprang upon the world fully formed in its present state waiting only for translation.
I might as well say that Mohammed had nothing to do with Islam of that the Buddha had nothing to do with Buhddism.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Messages
- 84
- Reaction score
- 0
Panda Bear said:
You say Islam and Christianity are theologically incompatible. Yes, this is true to some extent because Christianity as a religion came after Jesus. However, there are many Christian sects both today and in the early Church that closely resemble Islam's opinion on Jesus and his teachings. It is arguable as to what the teachings of Jesus really were, if you study them in depth. Many of the modern day Christian theology was not even discussed explicitly or implicitly in the time of Jesus. Both Muslims and Christians claim Jesus in their own way, that is what theological debate is for.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2006
- Messages
- 279
- Reaction score
- 1
& back to the point at hand, I'm going to venture to say NO....un-inspired, that's debatable, but so long as you don't digress as far as this thread has, you should be okay
8
8744
mostwanted said:
Again, you need to look at it from the perspective of a devout Christian. From my point of view, our church (the Greek Orthodox Church) has spent close to 1500 years hashing out what it means to be a Christian. The Fathers of the church spent their lifetimes thinking about nothing other than theology and while they were not perfect men, Christianity was their life and they took it pretty seriously. Seriously enough to wage war over ideas which they believed to be heretical.
Now try this on and try to keep an open mind. The fact that a particular view of Christianity emerged from this centuries long debate does not mean that it is the wrong one. It is the accepted view by most of the world's Christians and that's where it stands. The Methodist creed, for example, is almost exactly the same as the Orthodox which is almost the same as the Catholic. My Pentacostal neighbors, when they get done telling me I'm going to hell because we have icons of the Saints in our church, agree that they pretty much believe what we believe. Even the snake-handling, bible thumping Arkansas backwoods trash believe in the divinity of Christ and the Ressurection.
The point is that here are fundamental beliefs of any religion. You cannot be a Moslem and deny that there is only one God and Mohammed is his Prophet. Paganism and Islam are mutually exclusive. Islam supplanted paganism in the Arab Penninsula who's inhabitants at one time worshipped the moon. In no way does Christianity acknowledge Mohammed and no devout Moslem believes for a minute that Jesus was God. It kind of goes against the grain.
Sure, if all you have is a "faith tradition" you can gloss over the differences because since you don't believe in all that mumbo-jumbo anyways, what's the big deal? If you have faith, however, which is an irrational belief in your religion (not based, as has been pointed out, on reason or logic) then it is a big deal. Now, unfortunately the fact that there are real differences in different religions has lead to conflict and a lot of blood being spilled. The fact that Islam was pread by the sword or the Crusaders pillaged on their way to the Holy Land in no way invalidates either religion, nor does it mean that I need to be intolerant of your religion or you of mine.
But I can be tolerant of you even if I believe you are wrong.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2003
- Messages
- 466
- Reaction score
- 7
I say pick a controversial topic and do a good job of keeping a cool head when other's would lose it. That would be a good demonstration of how you can handle high-pressure situations and still maintain rational thought processes.
Just don't go the route of Panda Bear and start talking about ass-kicking religous icons. Cool it, buddy. On that note, why haven't the MODS closed this thread.
Just don't go the route of Panda Bear and start talking about ass-kicking religous icons. Cool it, buddy. On that note, why haven't the MODS closed this thread.
8
8744
qr321 said:
Jeez, dude. Whatever. There may be many Christian sects whose teachings resemble Islam's opinion on Jesus but this is a case of looking at the horse and seeing the flies. The overwhelming majority of the World's one billion Christians believe, or at least belong to Churches which believe, pretty much what I have told you. I can think of some nominally Christian sects that don't. The Unitarians come to mind. And the Jehovah's Witnesses. But for every Unitarian there are 10,000 Catholics.
Islam attempted to co-opt elements of Christianity for the same reason that early Christianity co-opted various pagan traditions, namely to make the transition for converts easier. As you know, the Orthodox and Catholic churches have long traditons of venerating Saints. This stems directly from pagan times when every village had its own dieties. The idea that paganism was a well ordered religion with a select pantheon of gods which were worshipped uniformly by everyone is erroneous. There was no "pagan church" with a limited selection of dieties all of which were worshipped by everyone. (This idea is a convention of 19th century classical scholars.)
We venerate the saints partly because they replaced the countless dieties worshipped in countless isolated towns across the classical world. Doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just the way it is.
For its part, Islam was spread by the sword in the until then Christian world. Asia Minor, Syria, Egypt, and North Africa were as Christian as any other place in the decaying Byzantine Empire until they were conquered by the Moslems. Acknowledgment of Jesus as a minor prophet was added into Islam gradually, in the same manner as Christian theology evolved by increments, as a sop to the conquered and an incentive to ease their conversion. Doesn't mean that Islam is therefore invalid, that's just the way it is.
I hope you're not going to insult our intelligence by claiming that the Koran sprang in its final form instantaneously full-blown into the world?
8
8744
The real problem is that many of you know nothing other than the political correctness which you were taught and view every subject through this prism. This is why, for example, the fact that our country was founded by a bunch of rich white guys is so hard for many of you to swallow. It just goes against everything you accept on faith to be right and proper.
Same with religion. Having no religion yourselves and having been indoctrinated in the "hippy" view of religion by your aging baby-boomer professors you find the "old school" view of religion to be deeply offensive as it is so very judgemental , perhaps the only unpardonable sin left in the politically correct world (Unless you are being judgmental about those things on the approved list, of course).
Same with religion. Having no religion yourselves and having been indoctrinated in the "hippy" view of religion by your aging baby-boomer professors you find the "old school" view of religion to be deeply offensive as it is so very judgemental , perhaps the only unpardonable sin left in the politically correct world (Unless you are being judgmental about those things on the approved list, of course).
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
- Messages
- 84
- Reaction score
- 0
Panda Bear said:
There is a lot of misinformation here.
Islam spread by the sword?
Christians especially were allowed for the most part to keep their religion, they converted willfully if they did become Muslim. Also note, that Indonesia the most populated Muslim country in the world was not even taken by Islamic conquest. And today, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the U.S. and the world. Not by sword, but by free will.
Your knowledge of Islam is quite laughable. Read the Qur'an. Jesus is a MAJOR prophet in the Qur'an. There is a large chapter on the Virgin Mary as well. There are countless verses on the life of Jesus and his teachings. There was nothing gradual of adding Jesus. Don't make things up. From the beginning of the message of Muhammad, Jesus and all the other Israelite Prophets were a major part of revelation, because those Prophets brought the same message. Muhammad was culmination of all that.
Just to add to this point because many Christians don't realize what Jesus is to Muslims. He is one of the 5 major Prophets who had revelation, he is the Messiah who will return before the judgment day, he performed many miracles, he was sinless, he foretold the coming of Muhammad, he spoke in the cradle to defend his pure mother, among many other things. Don't act like these things were added gradually, that is just a false claim. They were in the beliefs in the time of the Prophet, before any Islamic expansion. They are in the Qur'an which was finished in revelation just before the death of Muhammad.
The Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period through Muhammad. That Revelation has been intact, in the same exact language, with no changes, alterations, deletions, or interpolations for 1400 years since the death of Muhammad. It didn't spring down instantaneously, but it wasn't altered after it was complete and the timing is clear.
Islam co-opted Christianity? You know very little about Islam. If you read the Qur'an and other Islamic texts you will realize its teachings came to correct deviated beliefs of those who came after Christ and came to bring back the true teachings of Christ, this is what they say. The Qur'an testifies to the original teachings of Jesus, the Injeel, loosely known as the Gospel. How could it take things from Christianity when it gives its own unique insight into the original teachings of Jesus, in many ways, contradicting present-day Christian theology.
As others have pointed out, in Islam Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad brought the same divine religion at different stages in human history. According to Islamic doctrine, there is no contradiction between these different messengers. They merely came at different times, to a different context, and to different people, but the same message.
The followers of Christ in the early years after Jesus did not believe in those things that you told me. They were as much if not better followers of his teachings than the majority of Christians today. They were closer to Jesus and his teachings.
If you're gonna make claims about Islam, I advise you to actually study it yourself in depth from primary sources.
8
8744
qr321 said:There is a lot of misinformation here.
Islam spread by the sword?
Christians especially were allowed for the most part to keep their religion, they converted willfully if they did become Muslim. Also note, that Indonesia the most populated Muslim country in the world was not even taken by Islamic conquest. And today, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the U.S. and the world. Not by sword, but by free will.
Your knowledge of Islam is quite laughable. Read the Qur'an. Jesus is a MAJOR prophet in the Qur'an. There is a large chapter on the Virgin Mary as well. There are countless verses on the life of Jesus and his teachings. There was nothing gradual of adding Jesus. Don't make things up. From the beginning of the message of Muhammad, Jesus and all the other Israelite Prophets were a major part of revelation, because those Prophets brought the same message. Muhammad was culmination of all that.
Just to add to this point because many Christians don't realize what Jesus is to Muslims. He is one of the 5 major Prophets who had revelation, he is the Messiah who will return before the judgment day, he performed many miracles, he was sinless, he foretold the coming of Muhammad, he spoke in the cradle to defend his pure mother, among many other things. Don't act like these things were added gradually, that is just a false claim. They were in the beliefs in the time of the Prophet, before any Islamic expansion. They are in the Qur'an which was finished in revelation just before the death of Muhammad.
The Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period through Muhammad. That Revelation has been intact, in the same exact language, with no changes, alterations, deletions, or interpolations for 1400 years since the death of Muhammad. It didn't spring down instantaneously, but it wasn't altered after it was complete and the timing is clear.
Islam co-opted Christianity? You know very little about Islam. If you read the Qur'an and other Islamic texts you will realize its teachings came to correct deviated beliefs of those who came after Christ and came to bring back the true teachings of Christ, this is what they say. The Qur'an testifies to the original teachings of Jesus, the Injeel, loosely known as the Gospel. How could it take things from Christianity when it gives its own unique insight into the original teachings of Jesus, in many ways, contradicting present-day Christian theology.
As others have pointed out, in Islam Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad brought the same divine religion at different stages in human history. According to Islamic doctrine, there is no contradiction between these different messengers. They merely came at different times, to a different context, and to different people, but the same message.
The followers of Christ in the early years after Jesus did not believe in those things that you told me. They were as much if not better followers of his teachings than the majority of Christians today. They were closer to Jesus and his teachings.
If you're gonna make claims about Islam, I advise you to actually study it yourself in depth from primary sources.
You see, I admire the absolutism of your beliefs. And I think it's good that you stick up for your faith and don't get all mamby-pamby about it by letting an infidel like me "take you to school."
Of course, you're just spouting propaganda. The moslems did not saunter casually into Asia Minor, for example, and finding nobody home set up their own civilization. They waged a long war for it and as it was conquered many of it's inhabitants, perhaps not as strong in their faith as others, saw which way the wind was blowing and made a quick conversion, life not being all roses and cream for the those in Dhimmittude.
In fact, the Moslem rulers of Asia Minor had one last gasp at spreading the good word through peace and gentle persuasion when they drove the last of the Christian Greeks out of what later became Turkey in the early 1920s, massacring many on the process and bidding the rest to go to the Devil. I believe similar persecutions are taking place today in the Sudan.
So come off it. How do you know the Koran wasn't edited, I mean other than the fact that Fatwas are issued to this very day agianst heretics who want to look into it? Am I to take your word for it? You sound pretty uncompromising, one might say absolutist. Is faith proof? Why should I believe you? You have a pretty big emotional stake in the issue.
