IS THIS THE END OF OUR PROFESSION (LETS DISCUSS)

[sozetone]

Lets talk about why we are in the position we are in please. As an experienced retail pharmacist, I would like to hear some facts about WHY pharmacy is such a struggle and why it seems to be fading. If you can try to list statistics and factual data to support your ideas, I would really appreciate it. so, LETS TALK!

1) i believe over saturation is a major factor, which is indicated by the index numbers of graduates to jobs available for each state.

2) Big companies are struggling to meet profit goals and maintain Medicare contracts, leading to downsizing.

3) state boards seem to pass new rules that only help the big companies press even harder on us. ex. 1-6 tech ratios, satellite pharmacies that (in some cases) CAN be operated without the physical presence of a pharmacist.

Your thoughts?

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[Modest_anteater]

Lets talk about why we are in the position we are in please. As an experienced retail pharmacist, I would like to hear some facts about WHY pharmacy is such a struggle and why it seems to be fading. If you can try to list statistics and factual data to support your ideas, I would really appreciate it. so, LETS TALK!

1) i believe over saturation is a major factor, which is indicated by the index numbers of graduates to jobs available for each state.

2) Big companies are struggling to meet profit goals and maintain Medicare contracts, leading to downsizing.

3) state boards seem to pass new rules that only help the big companies press even harder on us. ex. 1-6 tech ratios, satellite pharmacies that (in some cases) CAN be operated without the physical presence of a pharmacist.

Your thoughts?

Is it the end? no. Will it effect future grads? Yes. I think this is just a small part of the US government which I believe is on it's way to partial economic collapse. We never truly recovered from the 2007-2008 crash all we literally did was PRINT MONEY OUT OF NOWHERE we didn't even have to physically print it this time. Look up Quantitative Easing. It's a fancy word for printing more money in bank accounts and then buying the bad assets that failed. So instead of taking the pain and letting some banks fail the US government pushed the collapse down the road. We continue to print 1,000,000,000.00 USD a year while borrowing billions of dollars from China.

So the issue isn't really pharmacy. It's the whole US government. People that had trouble finding work elsewhere are flooding into pharmacy due to it's easy money. Well the easy gravy train is drying up. Once pharmacist wages stabilize at 60,000 USD a year and the unemployment rate for pharmacists reaches 15% the great flood will end with around 30% of pharmacists defaulting on their student loans.

The kicker? The fed will just print up more money "quantitative easing" to buy the bad student loan assets causing massive inflation and robbing the value of people's bank accounts that hold cash aka Boomers 401ks, saving accounts, pensions.

My advice to people reading this. If you are a foreigner do not come to the US to study pharmacy. You will not be hired. There are too many new local new grads that speak fluent English. Come here to study MD/DO/PhD/computer science. Of the people I know that are currently jobless that hold pharmDs many of them are African, Vietnamese, Indian and Jordan/Lebanon and can not speak perfect English.

OP asked for hard facts so I present this for my case. If you can find anything wrong in my math please let me know. The supply of pharmDs is going way up compared to the amount of jobs.

17,4001 expected jobs to be created over ten years /10 years = 1,740 new full time pharmacy jobs created a year. Roughly 3,000 pharmacists retiring/dying a year. 1,740+3,000=4,740 new pharmacy jobs a year.

14,872 (New pharmDs in 2018) - 4,740 = 9,347 new grads unemployed a year This is 9,347 students that will not have a pharmacy job each year... in 10 years that is 93,000 unemployed pharmacists...
Ref 1 from government bls.gov which pulls data directly from IRS data
Ref 2 from NAPLEX first time test takers in 2017

 

[DrVader]

Lets talk about why we are in the position we are in please. As an experienced retail pharmacist, I would like to hear some facts about WHY pharmacy is such a struggle and why it seems to be fading. If you can try to list statistics and factual data to support your ideas, I would really appreciate it. so, LETS TALK!

1) i believe over saturation is a major factor, which is indicated by the index numbers of graduates to jobs available for each state.

2) Big companies are struggling to meet profit goals and maintain Medicare contracts, leading to downsizing.

3) state boards seem to pass new rules that only help the big companies press even harder on us. ex. 1-6 tech ratios, satellite pharmacies that (in some cases) CAN be operated without the physical presence of a pharmacist.

Your thoughts?

I believe the pharmacy profession attracts a certain type of individual. A person who isn't really ambitious or aggressive, but wants a nice white collar job that pays a lot. Not to knock on my own peps, but so many individuals I work with are doormats. We cave to the DMs, customers, often doctors. Whereas MD orgs, nurse orgs and PA orgs are out for blood and fight for every inch.

Another problem is that the salary for a pharmacist was artificially raised, before the 90s boom, pharmacist were not making nearly as much now. I know the whole healthcare field is hurting because American doesn't know what we want. We are not doing a market based system and we are not doing a single payer. We have a bastard system that doesn't work. People want perfect health, they want to live their crappy unhealthy lifestyle but they want to society to pay for it. Healthcare is like porn, everyone uses it but no one wants to pay for it. As Modest_Anteater said, the market will correct itself, society is waking up and realizing that we are in an education bubble and that a college degree is really just a piece of paper. It is only worth what people think it is and people don't think it is worth anything anymore.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I believe the pharmacy profession attracts a certain type of individual. A person who isn't really ambitious or aggressive, but wants a nice white collar job that pays a lot. Not to knock on my own peps, but so many individuals I work with are doormats. We cave to the DMs, customers, often doctors. Whereas MD orgs, nurse orgs and PA orgs are out for blood and fight for every inch.

Another problem is that the salary for a pharmacist was artificially raised, before the 90s boom, pharmacist were not making nearly as much now. I know the whole healthcare field is hurting because American doesn't know what we want. We are not doing a market based system and we are not doing a single payer. We have a bastard system that doesn't work. People want perfect health, they want to live their crappy unhealthy lifestyle but they want to society to pay for it. Healthcare is like porn, everyone uses it but no one wants to pay for it. As Modest_Anteater said, the market will correct itself, society is waking up and realizing that we are in an education bubble and that a college degree is really just a piece of paper. It is only worth what people think it is and people don't think it is worth anything anymore.

Exactly this.

The 2.5 pre-everything students always end up in pharmacy or optometry.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Exactly this.

The 2.5 pre-everything students always end up in pharmacy or optometry.

Or in law.

 

[sozetone]

Exactly this.

The 2.5 pre-everything students always end up in pharmacy or optometry.

Not bad guys, question. 2.5 pre -everything. Do you mean GPA and undecided...etc?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Not bad guys, question. 2.5 pre -everything. Do you mean GPA and undecided...etc?

I cannot understand your post.

 

[sozetone]

I cannot understand your post.

What i mean is 2.5? is that their GPA during undergrad, and pre-everything meaning they do not know what field to pursue?

 

[sozetone]

I cannot understand your post.

I think you are referring to all the ones i have to fire, or force out because they have no idea what pharmacy REALLY entails.......

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

What i mean is 2.5? is that their GPA during undergrad, and pre-everything meaning they do not know what field to pursue?

I apologize, but your English is too poor.
I can't understand your questions.
I'll stop posting in the thread now.

Thanks

 

[VA77]

Lets talk about why we are in the position we are in please. As an experienced retail pharmacist, I would like to hear some facts about WHY pharmacy is such a struggle and why it seems to be fading. If you can try to list statistics and factual data to support your ideas, I would really appreciate it. so, LETS TALK!

1) i believe over saturation is a major factor, which is indicated by the index numbers of graduates to jobs available for each state.

2) Big companies are struggling to meet profit goals and maintain Medicare contracts, leading to downsizing.

3) state boards seem to pass new rules that only help the big companies press even harder on us. ex. 1-6 tech ratios, satellite pharmacies that (in some cases) CAN be operated without the physical presence of a pharmacist.

Your thoughts?

Uhhh yeah all those things and more. Just can't wait for the schools to feel the pain and shut down. Also cant wait for that one case that makes Emily's law in OH look like a speeding ticket and the New England Compounding fiasco look like littering. It is going to take something catastrophic to change the general public's attitude. Someone or some company might end up be a martyr or villian but I welcome this because today's environment is unsustainable and is going to lead to this.

 

[VA77]

Exactly this.

The 2.5 pre-everything students always end up in pharmacy or optometry.

Fu*k. Some schools taking a C- for prereqs. I swear if I showed up on orientation day with the money they would say Grab a Seat!

 

[sozetone]

I apologize, but your English is too poor.
I can't understand your questions.
I'll stop posting in the thread now.

Thanks

yeah this was a serious thread, so you don't belong here. thanks.

 

[sozetone]

Fu*k. Some schools taking a C- for prereqs. I swear if I showed up on orientation day with the money they would say Grab a Seat!

i agree, too many millenials, who have the social skillset of a piss-ant is not helpful either. They stand behind the counter with a blank expression, expecting everything to happen around them, and to be called doctor.

 

[VA77]

i agree, too many millenials, who have the social skillset of a piss-ant is not helpful either. They stand behind the counter with a blank expression, expecting everything to happen around them, and to be called doctor.

It's not the millenials, corporate, or whatever. You have to go after ACPE, AACP, BOP. They created this mess and they have to clean it up.

 

[PetMed]

There will be a demand in pharmacists according to recent stats. A lot of recent graduates are doing pharmacy because it is an easy job with 6 figures. The situation is much better than IT, so I'm not complaining at all.

 

[Lnsean]

There will be a demand in pharmacists according to recent stats. A lot of recent graduates are doing pharmacy because it is an easy job with 6 figures. The situation is much better than IT, so I'm not complaining at all.

In all honesty, I don't know any pharmacist that is unemployed.

 

[sakigt]

I was talking to a coworker of mine and admitted I kinda wished salaries would go down so the old timers holding onto their lifestyle by a thread would piss off. Especially in the hospital. Not sure about retail.

The student loan crisis killed the profession. No subsidized student loans after 2011, increased tuition from decreased help from state governments after recession, 6.8% interest rate all equals giant balls of debt that forces people to be yes men and women.

 

[PetMed]

I was talking to a coworker of mine and admitted I kinda wished salaries would go down so the old timers holding onto their lifestyle by a thread would piss off. Especially in the hospital. Not sure about retail.

The student loan crisis killed the profession. No subsidized student loans after 2011, increased tuition from decreased help from state governments after recession, 6.8% interest rate all equals giant balls of debt that forces people to be yes men and women.

Wait, no subsidized loans anymore after 2011?!! That is insane!

 

[rxdawg21]

Wait, no subsidized loans anymore after 2011?!! That is insane!

For grad students...part of Obamacare

 

[sakigt]

For grad students...part of Obamacare

I love it when the deck get reshuffled halfway through the game. I started in 2009.

 

[DrVader]

Uhhh yeah all those things and more. Just can't wait for the schools to feel the pain and shut down. Also cant wait for that one case that makes Emily's law in OH look like a speeding ticket and the New England Compounding fiasco look like littering. It is going to take something catastrophic to change the general public's attitude. Someone or some company might end up be a martyr or villian but I welcome this because today's environment is unsustainable and is going to lead to this.

The problem is that there will always be some gullible students who are willing to go into pharmacy if they think they will make 120k. All pharmacy schools have to do lower their standards and they will always have full classes.

 

[rxdawg21]

I love it when the deck get reshuffled halfway through the game. I started in 2009.

Same here, I also had state scholarship removed going into my 3rd year of pharmacy school (that tuition wise would have been completely paid for had they not changed the rules (total # of hours covered) 4-5 months prior to start of 3rd year. Ended up costing me between the two changes in about 30k of extra loans/interest

 

[Robbin]

In all honesty, I don't know any pharmacist that is unemployed. The scope of this will never be end.

 

[DrVader]

In all honesty, I don't know any pharmacist that is unemployed. The scope of this will never be end.

Yeah and Rome thought they will never fall. And the British once thought that the sun would never set on the British empire, shall I continue?

 

[TerryTerry]

Most websites have far fewer positions posted compare to the last year same time with far less wage rate. Most independent positions I see now say they will pay about $35-45 per hour for PIC position. I am talking about South Florida specifically. Big chains are hardly hiring down here even if you want to work for them.

 

[Lnsean]

You guys are over reacting...bunch of drama queens....I don't know any pharmacist who is unemployed

 

[BidingMyTime]

There will be a demand in pharmacists according to recent stats.

I don't know where you heard those stats, but I highly doubt they are true. I see the need for pharmacists continually decreasing (although never going completely away.)

In all honesty, I don't know any pharmacist that is unemployed.

I have to admit, I also don't personally know any licensed pharmacist who is unemployed. Technically I know one, but she's a housewife/mom by choice, so she doesn't count. I can't say I even know any pharmacists who are really unhappy in their jobs (I have know some who were, but they packed up and moved on to another job--and yes, I'm talking about in the past couple of years, not the ancient past.) But then I live outside of Chicago....supposedly there are absolutely no jobs for pharmacists in Chicago (although everyone once in awhile someone in my area does indeed get a Chicago job.)

We definitely aren't in the "golden years" of pharmacy anymore, and I think there is real reason to fear the future with their being no end to pharmacy schools opening. But it's not a catastrophe yet.

But to add on to the OP's points.....I think what is and will continue to hurt pharmacists is that we do not, nor will we ever have, provider status. If we had got this back in the 90's before the every other person started going to NP school, it would have made a difference. Now, even if we get it, it will be too little, too late (and we aren't going to get it, that is a complete pipe dream told by pharmacy schools and associations.)

Edited to fix quoting issues.

 

[Chrish]

Retail pharmacy is well and truly finished.. New grads are already offered lower salaries at 48 hours/ 2 weeks. Old folks are getting laid off because there isn’t business need.

If this isn’t the end, I don’t know what it is.

 

[gwarm01]

I don't know any unemployed pharmacists, but I also graduated several years ago and my colleagues aren't looking for their first job in 2018.

However, I do know many unhappy and underemployed pharmacists. Several of my friends from school have found themselves in positions that are drastically reducing hours and it is impacting their lives. To make matters worse, they really can't go anywhere else because every pharmacy chain is doing the same thing.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

You old timers that don’t know unemployed pharmacists have likely been employed for a while, and are far out of touch with new grads. Ofc you wouldn’t know any, use your brain.

I see people crying about lack of prospects and feeling unwanted every week on fb from the class of 2018.

If you think it’s bad now, give it 5 years. Just starting to hit the fan now imo.

 

[ImmunoglobulinE]

In all honesty, I don't know any pharmacist that is unemployed. The scope of this will never be end.

You guys are over reacting...bunch of drama queens....I don't know any pharmacist who is unemployed

I don't know any unemployed pharmacists, but I also graduated several years ago and my colleagues aren't looking for their first job in 2018.

However, I do know many unhappy and underemployed pharmacists. Several of my friends from school have found themselves in positions that are drastically reducing hours and it is impacting their lives. To make matters worse, they really can't go anywhere else because every pharmacy chain is doing the same thing.

Hello fellow pharmacist my name is IgE I am part of class of 2018 and I’m unemployed

Now y’all know at least one unemployed RPH

 

[Momus]

Pharmpocalypse is happening folks, get ready.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Is it the end? no. Will it effect future grads? Yes. I think this is just a small part of the US government which I believe is on it's way to partial economic collapse. We never truly recovered from the 2007-2008 crash all we literally did was PRINT MONEY OUT OF NOWHERE we didn't even have to physically print it this time. Look up Quantitative Easing. It's a fancy word for printing more money in bank accounts and then buying the bad assets that failed. So instead of taking the pain and letting some banks fail the US government pushed the collapse down the road. We continue to print 1,000,000,000.00 USD a year while borrowing billions of dollars from China.

So the issue isn't really pharmacy. It's the whole US government. People that had trouble finding work elsewhere are flooding into pharmacy due to it's easy money. Well the easy gravy train is drying up. Once pharmacist wages stabilize at 60,000 USD a year and the unemployment rate for pharmacists reaches 15% the great flood will end with around 30% of pharmacists defaulting on their student loans.

The kicker? The fed will just print up more money "quantitative easing" to buy the bad student loan assets causing massive inflation and robbing the value of people's bank accounts that hold cash aka Boomers 401ks, saving accounts, pensions.

My advice to people reading this. If you are a foreigner do not come to the US to study pharmacy. You will not be hired. There are too many new local new grads that speak fluent English. Come here to study MD/DO/PhD/computer science. Of the people I know that are currently jobless that hold pharmDs many of them are African, Vietnamese, Indian and Jordan/Lebanon and can not speak perfect English.

OP asked for hard facts so I present this for my case. If you can find anything wrong in my math please let me know. The supply of pharmDs is going way up compared to the amount of jobs.

17,4001 expected jobs to be created over ten years /10 years = 1,740 new full time pharmacy jobs created a year. Roughly 3,000 pharmacists retiring/dying a year. 1,740+3,000=4,740 new pharmacy jobs a year.

14,872 (New pharmDs in 2018) - 4,740 = 9,347 new grads unemployed a year This is 9,347 students that will not have a pharmacy job each year... in 10 years that is 93,000 unemployed pharmacists...
Ref 1 from government bls.gov which pulls data directly from IRS data
Ref 2 from NAPLEX first time test takers in 2017

At some point, school will close down, less will be attracted to the profession and number of students will drop. The questions is when. We can't continue to grow at this rate.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

You guys are over reacting...bunch of drama queens....I don't know any pharmacist who is unemployed

Well pay cut and cut hours is what people are panicking over i think.

 

[APN-59 rph]

Lets talk about why we are in the position we are in please. As an experienced retail pharmacist, I would like to hear some facts about WHY pharmacy is such a struggle and why it seems to be fading. If you can try to list statistics and factual data to support your ideas, I would really appreciate it. so, LETS TALK!

1) i believe over saturation is a major factor, which is indicated by the index numbers of graduates to jobs available for each state.

2) Big companies are struggling to meet profit goals and maintain Medicare contracts, leading to downsizing.

3) state boards seem to pass new rules that only help the big companies press even harder on us. ex. 1-6 tech ratios, satellite pharmacies that (in some cases) CAN be operated without the physical presence of a pharmacist.

Your thoughts?

Two reasons..money and timing...My grand dad was a cigar maker..gone..my old man was a coal miner...mines closed long ago..my old job as a G.I. has basically disappeared altho that may be changing if these delicate electronics become fun targets. I started pharmacy school and was basically clueless....unless you owned a store you made less than I did as a G.I. which as I think about it makes sense because the responsibility was much greater and the risks were right up there too..but, oh the adventure..ANYWAY..the shortage fired up around the time I graduated..as did the pay...But I soon realized that I had also stumbled into possibly the most boring job short of sweeping floors...but, of course..kids...houses....cars etc. take money and plenty flowed in......and the pay kept going up....NOW, as I do my part time gigs..the whole system is devolving pay wise...(it's just as boring)...The kids are getting fished into it big time...will NOT listen to reason..and are facing the downhill run ....Why a young male would knowingly take up this trade is a psychological mystery...but you can't say you have not been warned...

 

[Chrish]

Pharmacy students who are only in 1st year and reading this, it’s still not too late to make a “U” turn (you can thank people over here later).

Pre-pharmacy definitely get the hell out!

 

[Modest_anteater]

Two reasons..money and timing...My grand dad was a cigar maker..gone..my old man was a coal miner...mines closed long ago..my old job as a G.I. has basically disappeared altho that may be changing if these delicate electronics become fun targets. I started pharmacy school and was basically clueless....unless you owned a store you made less than I did as a G.I. which as I think about it makes sense because the responsibility was much greater and the risks were right up there too..but, oh the adventure..ANYWAY..the shortage fired up around the time I graduated..as did the pay...But I soon realized that I had also stumbled into possibly the most boring job short of sweeping floors...but, of course..kids...houses....cars etc. take money and plenty flowed in......and the pay kept going up....NOW, as I do my part time gigs..the whole system is devolving pay wise...(it's just as boring)...The kids are getting fished into it big time...will NOT listen to reason..and are facing the downhill run ....Why a young male would knowingly take up this trade is a psychological mystery...but you can't say you have not been warned...

".Why a young male would knowingly take up this trade is a psychological mystery"

Actually it's more women than men that are being tricked into this high-interest-loan-scheme (formally known as Pharmacy school). 60-70% of new pharmDs are women. Most intelligent and hardworking men have gone into worthwhile and in demand fields such as programming and software engineering.

The real question is how can we profit off these unemployed 25-35 year old new pharmD women? what services and goods will they be seeking? They still might have some easy federal loan money before they move back home with their parents and go completely broke. The women under 25 should still be able to find a wealthy husband to support her.

What about a Post-PharmD degree "Advanced Pharmaceuticals for Neonates and Pediatrics" I feel like women would love that online degree.

 

[disgonbgud]

".Why a young male would knowingly take up this trade is a psychological mystery"

Actually it's more women than men that are being tricked into this high-interest-loan-scheme (formally known as Pharmacy school). 60-70% of new pharmDs are women. Most intelligent and hardworking men have gone into worthwhile and in demand fields such as programming and software engineering.

The real question is how can we profit off these unemployed 25-35 year old new pharmD women? what services and goods will they be seeking? They still might have some easy federal loan money before they move back home with their parents and go completely broke. The women under 25 should still be able to find a wealthy husband to support her.

What about a Post-PharmD degree "Advanced Pharmaceuticals for Neonates and Pediatrics" I feel like women would love that online degree.

Shut up, incel.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Pharmpocalypse is happening folks, get ready.

I actually unironically bought popcorn already. The issues is finding a place to pop it as I am banned from the two panera breads in town for using their microwaves without buying anything.

Shut up, incel.

anger is the weathervane of truth

 

[shrimpy]

As a tech, what can I do to help out pharmacists or even try to advocate for better working conditions?

Thanks!

 

[DrVader]

As a tech, what can I do to help out pharmacists or even try to advocate for better working conditions?

Thanks!

Don't work for the company. CVS didn't raise the tech wage out of the goodness of their hearts. They did it because they couldn't get a bum to do the job.

 

[mentos]

As a tech, what can I do to help out pharmacists or even try to advocate for better working conditions?

Thanks!

Minimize interruptions, pick up phone calls before they do, keep them off the register, be proactive about doing things without being asked to (do things before they turn red, if you see a station that needs backup go help), stay on top of the queue, keep supplies like vials, labels, paper nice and full, take out trash, put drugs away, keep a clean bench. The best techs are always getting things done on their own and don't bother the RPh.

 

[BidingMyTime]

You old timers that don’t know unemployed pharmacists have likely been employed for a while, and are far out of touch with new grads. Ofc you wouldn’t know any, use your brain.

Well, people in this thread have said "old timers" are being laid off right and left, so yes, other "old timers" would be aware of that, even if they weren't aware of what was happening to new grads. I also go to association meetings, which tend to be full of "old timers" and pharmacy students. I suppose it's a catch-22, an unemployed new grad can't afford to go to meetings....but yet association meetings are a great way to network and look for job opportunities.

 

[JamesPharmD]

Anyone in here working 2nd job or getting another degree outside of pharmacy?

 

[Sine Cura]

California BOP inspectors don't clear 120k/year (last time I checked) on the pay scale but consider the psychic benefits of terrorizing independent pharmacies on taking scripts without check boxes for refills and giving opaque answers to board regulation questions.

 

[Unchained]

Anyone in here working 2nd job or getting another degree outside of pharmacy?

I've made a crash course on cannabis that I've trained a few staffs with. I've converted it to an online course that I'll be pushing up to the state level and then nationally if successful.
I'm also performing due diligence on a few restaurants and a laundromat. It's been fun evaluating them as they are all very creative in reducing their tax burden. My lawyer and accountants are benefitting as a result.
I'm at the career stage where I'm transitioning out of pharmacy. I've been preparing for it for a while. It's a good time as there is honestly nothing I will miss about it.

 

[PharBeyondDriven]

Not bad guys, question. 2.5 pre -everything. Do you mean GPA and undecided...etc?

Translation:
Not bad, guys. I have a question. What does "2.5 pre-everything" mean? Is this a reference to their GPA and major?

 

[Unchained]

Cannabis course could be cool

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I've had fun teaching it. I've trained 5 dispensary staffs so far. It's been a break-even prospect at this point. 5k for a professional company to make it presentable and another 5k to code the online version with exams. Hundreds of hours in research, attending conferences and interviewing experts. It's very difficult to keep up with all the innovation occurring in the separate disciplines as well as the therapeutics, law, real estate and taxes.

 

[GypsyHummus]

You can get into a Pharmacy or Optometry school with a 2.5? I thought the bare minimum was around the 2.8-3.0 mark with really good PCAT and OAT respectively.

No wonder there is a oversaturation. If I got a 2.5 GPA in my worthless bio degree which has no job prospects after graduation, I can still make 120k/year if I go to Pharmacy school. And the money I take out for loans is basically Monopoly money to 22-25 year olds who haven’t had to pay net taxes before.

Exactly this.

The 2.5 pre-everything students always end up in pharmacy or optometry.