Is this too good to be true?

[docusa123]

Hey guys, I find it weird that getting into Pod school requires a lower gpa (3.0-3.3) and a lower MCAT score (20-22) for a job that will pay over 6 figures after you're done. I feel like this is basically medicine so it should be really really hard to get into like MD and DO school right? Is there a catch to all of this? Is the catch that there is only 8 POD schools so competition is tough? I don't know if this is the case because according to the matriculants sheet who applied in 2006 there was only about 400 students, so that means that everyone could've basically gotten in right? There has got to be a catch to all of this. Or is it because many people (like me) were not aware that pod schools existed and thought you needed to go into MD or DO to do anything like this? Or is it just because people generally do not like dealing with the feet as a specialty? If you guys could let me know that'd be awesome. Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[michk]

There's no catch....here is what you need to keep in mind:

Firstly, many people who apply to medical school know that they want to get an MD or DO, but they do not know what they want to specialize (or if they want to specialize at all) by the time they enter med school. Podiatry is a very specific and young specialization...thus there aren't as many people who are 100% sure that podiatry is the field of medicine that they want to pursue. Because of this, there are less applicant to podiatry school. Less applicants means that there is less competition so GPA values and MCAT scores are a bit more flexible. While it may be easier to get into podiatry schools than traditional med schools, as an applicant, you really have to be 100% sure that podiatry is what you want to pursue and you have to be 150% committed.

I know a girl who applied to Columbia university for a grad school program for nutrition. When she first looked at the school's acceptance rate for the grad program, it was something like 89%. She also was skeptical that there was a catch since the acceptance rate was so high. But again, just like podiatry school, there were less applicants to this grad program because it was for such a specific field and the applicants were also all highly qualified.

 

[PJAG]

There's no catch....here is what you need to keep in mind:

Firstly, many people who apply to medical school know that they want to get an MD or DO, but they do not know what they want to specialize (or if they want to specialize at all) by the time they enter med school. Podiatry is a very specific and young specialization...thus there aren't as many people who are 100% sure that podiatry is the field of medicine that they want to pursue. Because of this, there are less applicant to podiatry school. Less applicants means that there is less competition so GPA values and MCAT scores are a bit more flexible. While it may be easier to get into podiatry schools than traditional med schools, as an applicant, you really have to be 100% sure that podiatry is what you want to pursue and you have to be 150% committed.

I know a girl who applied to Columbia university for a grad school program for nutrition. When she first looked at the school's acceptance rate for the grad program, it was something like 89%. She also was skeptical that there was a catch since the acceptance rate was so high. But again, just like podiatry school, there were less applicants to this grad program because it was for such a specific field and the applicants were also all highly qualified.

I concur.....and there is a growing trend of applicants applying to pod school which indicates that more people are becoming aware of the education route of podiatry(this should result in more qualified applicants).......and I have to admit that I was one of the many who wasn't aware of the existence of podiatry schools.

 

[jonwill]

Hey guys, I find it weird that getting into Pod school requires a lower gpa (3.0-3.3) and a lower MCAT score (20-22) for a job that will pay over 6 figures after you're done. I feel like this is basically medicine so it should be really really hard to get into like MD and DO school right? Is there a catch to all of this? Is the catch that there is only 8 POD schools so competition is tough? I don't know if this is the case because according to the matriculants sheet who applied in 2006 there was only about 400 students, so that means that everyone could've basically gotten in right? There has got to be a catch to all of this. Or is it because many people (like me) were not aware that pod schools existed and thought you needed to go into MD or DO to do anything like this? Or is it just because people generally do not like dealing with the feet as a specialty? If you guys could let me know that'd be awesome. Thanks!

I appreciate your comments. You're right in that it does seem a bit odd. michk had some very good thoughts and I'll add to those. Generally speaking, the amount of money you make in this world correlates with two things: 1) work, and 2) stress.

1) While pod school is usually easier to get in to, it is NOT easier to get through. The material is very fast paced and difficult. It is quite overwhelming. The first few years cover general science and medicine and many pod students sit side-by-side with regular med students and yes, take the same tests. Much of everyday is spent studying. Because it is easier to get in to, I think you'll find that attrition rates are higher at pod schools when compared to MD/DO. And though I'm sure that there are exceptions, this tends to reflect that "lower tier" of students that are admitted to the various pod schools. They get in but they can't make it through. The ones that did fine in college usually do fine in pod school. And then there is residency which is no different than any other medical specialty in that you can find some that are very rigorous, some that are moderate, and some that are extremely laid back.

2) Stress kind of speaks for itself. I remember my first biochem test at DMU my first year. There were literally DO and DPM students in the bathroom hurling before the test! Rotations are extremely hard and stressful. Boards and the residency match are crazy Then you get into residency and in the first 48 hours of call, you get two GSW's in the ER, one of which requires surgery on a 16 year old (Ok, maybe that doesn't happen to everyone but it did to me). One of our first years this year did have two ankle fractures on her first night of call. I'm currently rotating on ortho trauma at the level I trauma center for the county. I'm on call every 4th night alone in the hospital. Then some window washer shows up to work drunk and high and falls three stories sustaining open b/l radial fractures and an open femoral fracture and guess who gets called to the trauma bay??? My point is obviously not that as a podiatrist, you will be taking ortho trauma call (although we do for foot and ankle) but that your residency will be a normal medical residency which consists of various off-rotations such as IM, ID, Gen Sx, Vasc Sx, Ortho, Peds, Plastics, etc. You learn a ton but it is EXTREMELY stressful and a lot of work.

NOW, after explaining all of that, it doesn't seem so "far-fetched" that after 11 years of post high school training, a podiatrist makes as much as he/she does. Too good to be true??? I guess that all depends on how you look at it!!!

 

[Gryhu]

NOW, after explaining all of that, it doesn't seem so "far-fetched" that after 11 years of post high school training, a podiatrist makes as much as he/she does. Too good to be true??? I guess that all depends on how you look at it!!!

That was very well stated.

 

[Feli]

...is it because many people (like me) were not aware that pod schools existed...
...is it just because people generally do not like dealing with the feet as a specialty...

Great responses already... and you basically answered your own question with what I quoted above.

Lack of knowledge that pod is a separate specialty is definitely the #1 factor. Awareness is improving, but a lot of people - and pre-health students - have little or no idea what a DPM is.

Egos also play a big, BIG role. Even though it's getting to be a more and more outdated mindset, pods are viewed by some as simple nail trimmers and wound care techs. Even for those pre-health students who realize the current DPM scope and training, many still want more than "just" the foot and ankle. Whose ego wants to do "just" foot surgery when you can cure cancer in kids or do a heart transplant, right?

I will certainly admit that pod is not the #1 in terms of a glorious and prestigous specialty. It's foot and ankle care, and that encompasses surgery when indicated. You will do some pretty routine stuff, and you do some procedures, surgery, and other cool stuff mixed in as well. It is what it is: an important service that a lot of people need and can greatly benefit from. It also happens to be a specialty that, like any other, can afford a good amount of respect, satisfaction, and income if you apply yourself and do it well. Podiatry can also provide a pretty nice lifestyle relative to most medical specialties, but that depends on the individual and which job position they take or how they structure their practice.

GL

 

[DisabledVet]

I appreciate your comments. You're right in that it does seem a bit odd. michk had some very good thoughts and I'll add to those. Generally speaking, the amount of money you make in this world correlates with two things: 1) work, and 2) stress.

1) While pod school is usually easier to get in to, it is NOT easier to get through. The material is very fast paced and difficult. It is quite overwhelming. The first few years cover general science and medicine and many pod students sit side-by-side with regular med students and yes, take the same tests. Much of everyday is spent studying. Because it is easier to get in to, I think you'll find that attrition rates are higher at pod schools when compared to MD/DO. And though I'm sure that there are exceptions, this tends to reflect that "lower tier" of students that are admitted to the various pod schools. They get in but they can't make it through. The ones that did fine in college usually do fine in pod school. And then there is residency which is no different than any other medical specialty in that you can find some that are very rigorous, some that are moderate, and some that are extremely laid back.

2) Stress kind of speaks for itself. I remember my first biochem test at DMU my first year. There were literally DO and DPM students in the bathroom hurling before the test! Rotations are extremely hard and stressful. Boards and the residency match are crazy Then you get into residency and in the first 48 hours of call, you get two GSW's in the ER, one of which requires surgery on a 16 year old (Ok, maybe that doesn't happen to everyone but it did to me). One of our first years this year did have two ankle fractures on her first night of call. I'm currently rotating on ortho trauma at the level I trauma center for the county. I'm on call every 4th night alone in the hospital. Then some window washer shows up to work drunk and high and falls three stories sustaining open b/l radial fractures and an open femoral fracture and guess who gets called to the trauma bay??? My point is obviously not that as a podiatrist, you will be taking ortho trauma call (although we do for foot and ankle) but that your residency will be a normal medical residency which consists of various off-rotations such as IM, ID, Gen Sx, Vasc Sx, Ortho, Peds, Plastics, etc. You learn a ton but it is EXTREMELY stressful and a lot of work.

NOW, after explaining all of that, it doesn't seem so "far-fetched" that after 11 years of post high school training, a podiatrist makes as much as he/she does. Too good to be true??? I guess that all depends on how you look at it!!!

Looking forward to it.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Great posts - michk, jonwill and Feli!

 

[kmyprimeval]

easier to get into....but very hard to complete. if you were a slacker in college..change your study habits now or something cuz it will bite you in the ass. I just finished first year of pod school..and man do i give my fellow students (who survived) respect. Now I know for sure once I am done, i will feel entitled to a 6 figure income haha.

 

[Sundarban1]

.. Now I know for sure once I am done, i will feel entitled to a 6 figure income haha.

Perhaps, although the most recent data (from APMA member servey 2007) suggest that entry level salary (those with <10 year exp) start around 60k.

Earnings of Recent Associates
•
The 2007 survey provided information about the starting salaries of recent associates.
•
The median starting salary for associates with less than 10 years experience was $60,000 in 2007, compared to $55,000 in 2005. The average starting salaries for recent associates were $66,751 in 2007 and $60,335 in 2005. Recent increases in starting salaries are noteworthy.

 

[j0ez0r]

^ well that does include residents ^... so makes quite a bit of sense to me.

 

[PMSIII]

Perhaps, although the most recent data (from APMA member servey 2007) suggest that entry level salary (those with <10 year exp) start around 60k.

Earnings of Recent Associates
•
The 2007 survey provided information about the starting salaries of recent associates.
•
The median starting salary for associates with less than 10 years experience was $60,000 in 2007, compared to $55,000 in 2005. The average starting salaries for recent associates were $66,751 in 2007 and $60,335 in 2005. Recent increases in starting salaries are noteworthy.

Earnings of full-time associates post-residency are no where close to the $60,000 range. In fact, you wouldn't see many who settle for less than 100K (with bonuses, benefits included). The typical base salary is in the 80K range and many employers will include benefits and percentages to give you an incentive to work and bring in more patients (or business). I was at a practice management seminar not too long ago and they stressed the value of working as a practice owner even within an associate title. The ultimate goal is to not only provide comprehensive medical services for the patients but to generate income.

 

[PMSIII]

Great responses already... and you basically answered your own question with what I quoted above.

Lack of knowledge that pod is a separate specialty is definitely the #1 factor. Awareness is improving, but a lot of people - and pre-health students - have little or no idea what a DPM is.

Egos also play a big, BIG role. Even though it's getting to be a more and more outdated mindset, pods are viewed by some as simple nail trimmers and wound care techs. Even for those pre-health students who realize the current DPM scope and training, many still want more than "just" the foot and ankle. Whose ego wants to do "just" foot surgery when you can cure cancer in kids or do a heart transplant, right?

I will certainly admit that pod is not the #1 in terms of a glorious and prestigous specialty. It's foot and ankle care, and that encompasses surgery when indicated. You will do some pretty routine stuff, and you do some procedures, surgery, and other cool stuff mixed in as well. It is what it is: an important service that a lot of people need and can greatly benefit from. It also happens to be a specialty that, like any other, can afford a good amount of respect, satisfaction, and income if you apply yourself and do it well. Podiatry can also provide a pretty nice lifestyle relative to most medical specialties, but that depends on the individual and which job position they take or how they structure their practice.

GL

Great response Feli. I'm really big on the fact that it is one of very few specialties which provide instant gratification for the patient. Another attractive attribute is the fact that it is procedural medicine. We use our hands all the time - injections, in-office procedures, ulcer-debridements, and in some cases orthotics. As a fourth year student (and I'm sure Feli can relate to this) but we see many specialties and truly podiatry is a special field

 

[HenryH]

Earnings of full-time associates post-residency are no where close to the $60,000 range. In fact, you wouldn't see many who settle for less than 100K (with bonuses, benefits included). The typical base salary is in the 80K range and many employers will include benefits and percentages to give you an incentive to work and bring in more patients (or business). I was at a practice management seminar not too long ago and they stressed the value of working as a practice owner even within an associate title. The ultimate goal is to not only provide comprehensive medical services for the patients but to generate income.

Where do they get this stinkin' number (the $60k crap)? I'm sure it scares lots of potential podiatry students from even applying...

When does the next APMA income survey come out? Are they releasing a 2008 edition?

 

[jonwill]

Perhaps, although the most recent data (from APMA member servey 2007) suggest that entry level salary (those with <10 year exp) start around 60k.

Earnings of Recent Associates
•
The 2007 survey provided information about the starting salaries of recent associates.
•
The median starting salary for associates with less than 10 years experience was $60,000 in 2007, compared to $55,000 in 2005. The average starting salaries for recent associates were $66,751 in 2007 and $60,335 in 2005. Recent increases in starting salaries are noteworthy.

I haven't seen any of my co-residents start under 150K a year. A lot of those surveys are totally inaccurate and include part-time salaries, resident salaries, etc. The young members committee actually did a salary survey that was much more accurate.

 

[HenryH]

I haven't seen any of my co-residents start under 150K a year. A lot of those surveys are totally inaccurate and include part-time salaries, resident salaries, etc. The young members committee actually did a salary survey that was much more accurate.

Would you mind throwing-out one or two figures quoted in the survey?

 

[184013]

Jonwill,
If that survey is available is it possible to be posted? If not, could I provide an email addy to receive? That would be so extremely helpful and I am excited to see, thanks!
v/r

 

[jonwill]

Jonwill,
If that survey is available is it possible to be posted? If not, could I provide an email addy to receive? That would be so extremely helpful and I am excited to see, thanks!
v/r

I'll see what I can find. I know it's been posted in these forums before.