Jailed pharmacist follow up.

[WVUPharm2007]

Link

Still total bull****. And the sad thing is that I could see this happening all over the country...to any pharmacist...anywhere...including me. The system just chewed this poor scapegoat of a man up and spat him out. I think back to all the nights where I was alone...just me and 160 patients...all hell breaking loose. And I made several errors those nights...thankfully none too serious. But they could have been with my attention being stretched thin 37 different directions simultaneously.

It's rather jarring. The system screws us and we take the fall.

Man, oh man, do I feel for this dude. Yet another reason why I'm going to move to Russia (or Canada, whatever). No other civilized legal system in the industrialized world would send a man who made a non-malicious error in a hospital to jail. Andno other civilized country would just lock a dude up without making legitimate change to the system.

Guess what, dumb ****s...it's not on the pharmacist...it's on the fact that every ****ing pharmacist on the front line spends 8-12 hours at a time on thin ice...overworked...underrested.

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[RX CARE]

Oh yea....crazy indeed....remember that case!
Ohio actually started 'Emily's Law' because of that, requiring all techs to be trained. Actually there was some issue that he also worked retail and made blatant mistakes which were pretty much seen as gross negligence...and that's why they were compelled to jail him.... But it is pretty crazy though....this case was discussed at length when we took law....interesting class argument day!

 

[JamesL1585]

You must have caught that CNN segment tonight.... that was really sad. What a mess. He's not the only one who should be in trouble... what about the nurses that administered the line? Jail is so harsh, the guy is so harmless, he's crying like a little girl everyday I'm sure, and god knows what they are doing to him in the prison. Injustice at its' best. The mans life is ruined, he's embarrassed, and its not his fault alone. I was thinking the same thing during his interview. That can happen to ANY PHARMACIST.

Link

Still total bull****. And the sad thing is that I could see this happening all over the country...to any pharmacist...anywhere...including me. The system just chewed this poor scapegoat of a man up and spat him out. I think back to all the nights where I was alone...just me and 160 patients...all hell breaking loose. And I made several errors those nights...thankfully none too serious. But they could have been with my attention being stretched thin 37 different directions simultaneously.

It's rather jarring. The system screws us and we take the fall.

Man, oh man, do I feel for this dude. Yet another reason why I'm going to move to Russia (or Canada, whatever). No other civilized legal system in the industrialized world would send a man who made a non-malicious error in a hospital to jail. Andno other civilized country would just lock a dude up without making legitimate change to the system.

Guess what, dumb ****s...it's not on the pharmacist...it's on the fact that every ****ing pharmacist on the front line spends 8-12 hours at a time on thin ice...overworked...underrested.

 

[BMBiology]

Yes, the pharmacist was at fault but by not holding the tech accountable as well, it sends the wrong message.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Link

Still total bull****. And the sad thing is that I could see this happening all over the country...to any pharmacist...anywhere...including me. The system just chewed this poor scapegoat of a man up and spat him out. I think back to all the nights where I was alone...just me and 160 patients...all hell breaking loose. And I made several errors those nights...thankfully none too serious. But they could have been with my attention being stretched thin 37 different directions simultaneously.

It's rather jarring. The system screws us and we take the fall.

Man, oh man, do I feel for this dude. Yet another reason why I'm going to move to Russia (or Canada, whatever). No other civilized legal system in the industrialized world would send a man who made a non-malicious error in a hospital to jail. Andno other civilized country would just lock a dude up without making legitimate change to the system.

Guess what, dumb ****s...it's not on the pharmacist...it's on the fact that every ****ing pharmacist on the front line spends 8-12 hours at a time on thin ice...overworked...underrested.

If you read the whole case you get a really bad picture of this pharmacist. From what I read he was a total disaster of a pharmacist. Incompetence doesn't even begin to describe him. It is ridiculuous that he was the only one held responsible. Everyone in his chain of command should have been prosecuted for allowing him to practice despite all the evidence of his incompetence.

 

[Sparda29]

This is the problem with this country, health care professionals SHOULD NOT be held accountable for their mistakes.

For anyone who owns an independent pharmacy, is there a way we can get some waiver or something that patients have to sign acknowledging that they cannot sue the pharmacy or any of its employees for any mistakes made resulting in injury, embarrassment, or death?

 

[ValeRx]

Here's the link to the Ohio Board of Pharmacy's findings. Straight from the BOP website.

http://pharmacy.ohio.gov/rphquery/pdfs/03319886.pdf

 

[xiphoid2010]

This is the problem with this country, health care professionals SHOULD NOT be held accountable for their mistakes.

For anyone who owns an independent pharmacy, is there a way we can get some waiver or something that patients have to sign acknowledging that they cannot sue the pharmacy or any of its employees for any mistakes made resulting in injury, embarrassment, or death?

someone help me out here since I'm no lawyer. Shouldn't medical errors be covered under malpractice law suits rather than criminal law? Physicians and nurses make way more mistakes than pharmacists do, but they seems to be pretty safe under their malpractice insurance coverage. What's the difference?

 

[ValeRx]

someone help me out here since I'm no lawyer. Shouldn't medical errors be covered under malpractice law suits rather than criminal law? Physicians and nurses make way more mistakes than pharmacists do, but they seems to be pretty safe under their malpractice insurance coverage. What's the difference?

That's a huge part of what's so ****ed up about this whole situation. This is, if I'm not mistaken, the first time a pharmacist was held CRIMINALLY responsible for a mistake.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Here's the link to the Ohio Board of Pharmacy's findings. Straight from the BOP website.

http://pharmacy.ohio.gov/rphquery/pdfs/03319886.pdf

After reading that, I'm even more confident that the man was scapegoated. Sounds like whoever up above's
law professor has been in a bubble for too long and is out of touch with reality. What, he makes a mistake or two a month? Some of which are stupid. Like not dispensing the correct quantity? Saying "take by mouth" on a suppository? Please. That's a mistake anyone could make. If the dude was making a mistake a day...or hell...even 3 a week, I could see the "shock" at his rate of errors. But to imply that the track record shown is anything more than MAYBE slightly below average AT WORST is straight up hyperbole. Mistakes like those are made every day...at about the same rate as any pharmacist makes, to be honest. Human error rates are a known quantity...and expecting any pharmacist to go without making a mistake is ridiculous. I know the general public would disagree, but unfortunately, reality disagrees with their expectations. And a serious error happening within the confines of said normal human error rate will happen...and the seriousness of the mistakes that everyone makes is just flat out bad luck. Like lightening striking.

It's like the ****ing inverse Powerball lottery. Just hope that whenever your mental lapse comes up, it ain't something serious. We aren't cyborgs. And we can't be replaced by them yet. **** like the above is going to happen. And putting a man in jail for it is unjust, disgusting, and frightening.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

This is bull**** that no pharmacy organization or civil organization came to his aid.

His mistakes are common and I would say 5-6 mistakes a year can be stellar record for someone who is over worked.

The question is what can we do about it now?

 

[xiphoid2010]

what's the point of malpractice insurance if it doesn't protect you against unintentional human errors? I agree, this lawsuit is just bull.

 

[Sparda29]

someone help me out here since I'm no lawyer. Shouldn't medical errors be covered under malpractice law suits rather than criminal law? Physicians and nurses make way more mistakes than pharmacists do, but they seems to be pretty safe under their malpractice insurance coverage. What's the difference?

Actually, I don't think we should even have to deal with malpractice law suits or criminal law. If the patient dies, they die, we shouldn't be held responsible.

 

[litetigre]

If you read the whole case you get a really bad picture of this pharmacist. From what I read he was a total disaster of a pharmacist. Incompetence doesn't even begin to describe him. It is ridiculuous that he was the only one held responsible. Everyone in his chain of command should have been prosecuted for allowing him to practice despite all the evidence of his incompetence.

I would say he is incompetent of working in a bad environment, not incompetent of knowledge or skills. Ohio BOP is the incompetent one. It should have revoked the hospital license. Since it is created to protect the well-being of Ohio residents, it should have looked to improve the working conditions of pharmacists. Pharmacists are there to save people but to kill them. Nope, all it did was blaming the poor pharmacist and close the case. The tech filling the script who was talking on the cell phone on the day of the incident continued to work in pharmacy. If you read on and follow up on the case, Emily's father finally admitted like a year later that they were so devastated that they blamed all on the pharmacist.

 

[drugdoc]

You must have caught that CNN segment tonight.... that was really sad. What a mess. He's not the only one who should be in trouble... what about the nurses that administered the line? Jail is so harsh, the guy is so harmless, he's crying like a little girl everyday I'm sure, and god knows what they are doing to him in the prison. Injustice at its' best. The mans life is ruined, he's embarrassed, and its not his fault alone. I was thinking the same thing during his interview. That can happen to ANY PHARMACIST.

The nurse(s) didn't do anything wrong. The order was written correctly by the MD. The fault was with the tech, who mixed up the NaCl and the pharmacist for incorrectly verifying things.

 

[PharmboyinNC]

Agree. The pharmacist should have checked how the solution was prepared by the tech. He got jailtime because of GROSS negligence. But, he should have had the national Pharmacy organizations help him out, because it affects all pharmacists. This precedence may open up more criminal liability for others. Sorta felt like he was drown under the train.

If an MD had made a problem, I'm sure he/she would have organizations support, since it affects the whole profession.

The pharmacy profession is so fragmented, that there is no strong voice or lobbying done, like MDs and DDS. We are too complacent.

 

[rphello]

The precedent has been set folks. We're on the chopping block now.

If you're harping on GROSS negligence, then why don't you include the management in the charges? If these were GROSS errors, then shouldn't management have benched the dude? This was not willful negligence. This man was not trying to harm someone. As WVU said, it almost seems like the system is designed for us to fail.

I'll repeat what others have said, where are the pharmacy organizations? You think I'm going to give you dues when you sit around with your thumbs up your asses while a pharmacist is stuck in jail for a mistake? The entire profession just got hosed, and they didn't say a word.

From the video, the mother said the message is patient safety is the main priority. So sending someone to jail for a mistake will magically improve patient safety?

 

[PharmDstudent]

After the boards, remind me NOT to get licensed in the unreasonable state of Ohio...

 

[spacecowgirl]

This was complete bull****. I really feel for this guy, he will suffer every day of his life because of the error, that's punishment enough. But now he has lost his livelihood, 6 months of his life, has a record, etc etc. It could happen to anyone.

 

[stevephhs016]

Sigh, what a load of horse ****

 

[rxforlife2004]

Our healthcare system is a fu*** up one, seriously. As i have been exposing and working in a hospital, i've seen and witnessed SO MANY ERRORS from the physicians to the nurses...MD gave wrong dosages, prescribed Metformin for a elderly with Scr=4.0, etc...; nurses forgot to give digoxin on a pt, pt coded, nurses gave wrong dosage of amiodarone, etc...heck, nurses even gave medication A for pt B, where B has no order of med A, etc....and nothing happened...who knows one of the patient died because of these listed errors...etc...but they are still okay.

A pharmacist made a big mistake= in jail! so f** up..nobody wanna make mistake, seriously....Please!

 

[Sparda29]

What I wanna know is, how would the pharmacist be able to tell if the solution is 23.4% or 0.9% NaCl? Wouldn't it look the same?

 

[chuckle beast]

What I wanna know is, how would the pharmacist be able to tell if the solution is 23.4% or 0.9% NaCl? Wouldn't it look the same?

Taste each one, I think.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

What I wanna know is, how would the pharmacist be able to tell if the solution is 23.4% or 0.9% NaCl? Wouldn't it look the same?

From what I know of sterile compounding, there should have been a bottle of sterile water that had been opened on the tray when the pharmacist checked it, along with the syringe used (set to the proper volume).

Anyone with more experience, feel free to weigh in.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

What I wanna know is, how would the pharmacist be able to tell if the solution is 23.4% or 0.9% NaCl? Wouldn't it look the same?

With limited man hours and such, the techs put the solution into the bag. To show you that it's right, usually they "show their work" by presenting the vial of drug they used and pull the syringe back to the amount that they injected. You check that they used the right stuff and right amount as well as the right solution and volume of solution.

And given that this is the common way its done, you can see how ridiculous it is that any pharmacist could really ever be held intellectually liable for anything. Yet, we are. Basically, if a tech wanted you jailed, they could probably do it in Ohio.


With this guy, I'd love for them to prove that he was shown the 0.9% NaCl rather than the 23.4% stuff. He's liable either way, but who's to say that the tech did it wrong, but showed him a saline vial. That certainly wouldn't be manslaughter. And with some of the idiots I've worked with in my time, I could DEFINITELY see that happening to me.

 

[sosoo]

so what does the malpractice insurance cover
exactly? if not mistakes like these?

 

[naseuy]

Actually, I don't think we should even have to deal with malpractice law suits or criminal law. If the patient dies, they die, we shouldn't be held responsible.

I wouldn't want you to be my pharmacist.

 

[Vyvanase]

In this case, the technician prepared the chemotherapy dose using 23.4 percent saline instead of 0.9 percent saline. An empty saline bag next to the finished chemotherapy preparation suggested that the dose had been prepared using the proper base solution. ~drugtopics
__________________________
This problem could have been prevented by having two pharmacist check chemo and always mixing drugs in D5W if it is compatible for pediatrics. The 23.4% vial is a giant red flag if you see it out, unless you have a bag of sterile water out trying to make something from scratch. The 23.4% vials usually come larger then a normal 10 cc 0.9% NS vial too.

 

[Sparda29]

I wouldn't want you to be my pharmacist.

Of course, because you couldn't sue me if something goes wrong. This is what I'm talking about. If we make an honest mistake and something happens to the patient, we shouldn't be held responsible.

If we mess up on purpose to harm the patient, then that's a different story.

 

[PharmaTope]

pretty awful what happened to him.

didnt i read the kid was getting chemotherapy? seriously, what was the life expectancy on her anyways?

sounds like the mother is a real biznatch

 

[Priapism321]

didnt i read the kid was getting chemotherapy? seriously, what was the life expectancy on her anyways?

sounds like the mother is a real biznatch

What a ******ed comment, I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Ava999]

pretty awful what happened to him.

didnt i read the kid was getting chemotherapy? seriously, what was the life expectancy on her anyways?

sounds like the mother is a real biznatch

That was pretty messed up...

 

[WVUPharm2007]

In this case, the technician prepared the chemotherapy dose using 23.4 percent saline instead of 0.9 percent saline. An empty saline bag next to the finished chemotherapy preparation suggested that the dose had been prepared using the proper base solution. ~drugtopics

Holy ****. If I'm that dude, I get an added contempt of court and battery for beating the living **** out of the prosecutor, judge, jury, and parents. Dude was placed into a situation where any logical human being would have thought it was correctly made...and they give him 6 months?

 

[Silvermist]

FWIW, this ruined just about everyone's lives and set the family on a downward spiral. Nobody won here, and everyone involved will be coping with the aftermath for the rest of their lives.

This is worth a read:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/chris_jerry_whose_daughter_emi.html

I don't know why they went after Cropp. Maybe it was due to previous errors they didn't punish him for when they had a chance, maybe it was politically motivated, maybe a family member had pull with the DA, maybe the hospital threw the guy under the bus to reduce their own liability, who knows.

In my county last year, a guy was brought to trial for accidentally leaving his kid in the car on a hot day, and the child died. In a neighboring county, a similar incident happened, but no charges were ever filed. No rhyme or reason, just tragedy all around.

I don't know what I think about this situation. I'm a future pharmacist ... but I'm also a mom. As a future practitioner, this scares me for its implications, but as a mom, I can't even imagine this family's pain and I can see myself doing exactly what they did.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

FWIW, this ruined just about everyone's lives and set the family on a downward spiral. Nobody won here, and everyone involved will be coping with the aftermath for the rest of their lives.

This is worth a read:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/chris_jerry_whose_daughter_emi.html

I don't know why they went after Cropp. Maybe it was due to previous errors they didn't punish him for when they had a chance, maybe it was politically motivated, maybe a family member had pull with the DA, maybe the hospital threw the guy under the bus to reduce their own liability, who knows.

In my county last year, a guy was brought to trial for accidentally leaving his kid in the car on a hot day, and the child died. In a neighboring county, a similar incident happened, but no charges were ever filed. No rhyme or reason, just tragedy all around.

I don't know what I think about this situation. I'm a future pharmacist ... but I'm also a mom. As a future practitioner, this scares me for its implications, but as a mom, I can't even imagine this family's pain and I can see myself doing exactly what they did.

The problem is that this still doesn't address any of the real issues. Incompetent techs are a minor issue. This problem had nothing to do with a lack of knowledge and skill...it was a lack of attention. The real issue is that we are overworked and understaffed. What they NEED to focus on are pharmacist-to-patient ratios. I've been all alone on a Saturday morning supervising 4 technicians with a census of almost 200 before. That's just ****ed up.

 

[rphello]

I've been all alone on a Saturday morning supervising 4 technicians with a census of almost 200 before.

You've got to be kidding me. I know your hospital doesn't have much money, but they must dip into the coffers to keep that from happening. Damn, I don't care how good you are, that's dangerous.

 

[pemoline]

The Ohio BOP has published a response to all the criticisms they've been getting about this case. You can read it on the NABP's home page for now: nabp.net

Basically, according to the Ohio BOP, dissenting opinions are based on "fantasy," and if you dare to tell them your opinion, you may be "vitriolic."

The article goes on to criticize the Institute for Safe Medicine Practices, suggesting that the Institute does not care about medication safety.

On a related note, I noticed that the Ohio BOP's website states, "Information believed accurate but not guaranteed. The State of Ohio disclaims liability for any errors or omissions." How ironic.

 

[confettiflyer]

I never considered moving to Ohio in the first place, but this about cements my opinion about that state.

Just sent a random email to BOP saying that "my colleagues in the state will now avoid reporting mistakes" and "I'm going nowhere near your downtrodden state now."

Any word on an appeal?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You've got to be kidding me. I know your hospital doesn't have much money, but they must dip into the coffers to keep that from happening. Damn, I don't care how good you are, that's dangerous.

Up at Mon Valley in Monongahelia, I hear its even worse...and they only get $38/hour starting out...lmao...

...they wonder why nobody wants to work there...

 

[MountainPharmD]

The problem is that this still doesn't address any of the real issues. Incompetent techs are a minor issue. This problem had nothing to do with a lack of knowledge and skill...it was a lack of attention. The real issue is that we are overworked and understaffed. What they NEED to focus on are pharmacist-to-patient ratios. I've been all alone on a Saturday morning supervising 4 technicians with a census of almost 200 before. That's just ****ed up.

I thought it was all sunny and wonderful working for a hospital? What happened to the nirvana known as hospital pharmacy? Chit under staffed and over worked thats a normal day for your average sweat shop retail pharmacists. Don't forget to throw in immunizations and a heaping pile of corporate bs busy work.

 

[litetigre]

Since the damage has been done, should we talk about lobbying for malpractice? Enacting a law would prevent incident like this ever happen again.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I thought it was all sunny and wonderful working for a hospital? What happened to the nirvana known as hospital pharmacy? Chit under staffed and over worked thats a normal day for your average sweat shop retail pharmacists. Don't forget to throw in immunizations and a heaping pile of corporate bs busy work.

Oh, no, don't get me wrong, compared to retail it's sunny and wonderful. Retail is a special form of hell.

 

[Sparda29]

Since the damage has been done, should we talk about lobbying for malpractice? Enacting a law would prevent incident like this ever happen again.

I think it would be better if the country abolishes all kinds of lawsuits. I'm sick and tired of hearing those stupid asbestos ads, and the personal injury **** on TV. I can't believe that lady who spilled coffee on herself actually won money in a lawsuit against McDonalds.

 

[DrWrong]

We just had a big case discussion about this in Law class today. I don't really have an opinion on the case other than the fact that it is wrong that he is now considered a felon, and not only will he never practice pharmacy again, but he'll have trouble finding a job as a construction worker or Wal-Mart employee.

At lease we all know there will always be jobs available in Ohio if every where else gets saturated.....

 

[smileyangel11]

I don't know the whole story. But back in the old days, doesn't some hospitals use 23.4% hypertonic saline and compound 0.9% NS out of it?

Also wondering if the printed label had enough information to prompt the tech to use Y amount of 0.9% NS.

I remember once verified Roxicet dose in a pt w/severe red dye allergy. Luckily, the nurse noted the color of liquid and held it.

When I first worked as a tech in IV room, I also drew out the wrong amt of insulin to make an insulin drip. Luckily the RPH caught it, otherwise, I probably ended my pharmacy profession on that night.

Curious what mistakes other people realized they made and like to share.

 

[Silvermist]

I think it would be better if the country abolishes all kinds of lawsuits. I'm sick and tired of hearing those stupid asbestos ads, and the personal injury **** on TV. I can't believe that lady who spilled coffee on herself actually won money in a lawsuit against McDonalds.

Normally I might agree, but oh man, asbestos hits a nerve ... My grandma and my dad both worked on the factory floor for one of the biggest manufacturers. They both got asbestosis after years of working with no personal protective equipment before the average joe knew it was dangerous. Internal memos show that companies knew as of the 1930s that this stuff was dangerous, but they didn't tell anyone. Sure, some regulations were put into place in the 1970s, but if your house was built before the mid-1980s, you have a very high chance of having asbestos in your ceilings ... your spackle ... your drywall ... your textured ceilings, your stucco, your walls, etc. Home renovators and do-it-yourselfers don't always know this, and they are considered to be the probable next wave of asbestosis and mesothelioma cases as they age.

It's still not banned, and it's still used in floor and roofing material, as well as in some aftermarket brake pads. One of the top-selling Xmas toys in 2007 was a CSI fingerprint kit that contained - you guessed it! - in the fingerprint dust that kids were supposed to blow around. Most of us are exposed on a daily basis, and while the majority won't develop problems, some will die. And these companies knew all along ...

I used to wonder why they had those commercials on TV and always thought that asbestos was a banned substance that you didn't have to worry about unless you lived in a really, really old house. I don't want to go into details, but I recently found out I was extremely wrong about that, and it is a lot more prevalent than I ever knew.

 

[Old Timer]

I think it would be better if the country abolishes all kinds of lawsuits. I'm sick and tired of hearing those stupid asbestos ads, and the personal injury **** on TV. I can't believe that lady who spilled coffee on herself actually won money in a lawsuit against McDonalds.

You are just a clueless individual. I don't know how you think or if you think at all. You draw conclusions without having any knowledge of the facts. The McDonalds coffee case is perfect. First, the lady did NOT want to sue McDonalds. She requested they pay for her medical expenses, which would have been in the thousands. The trouble for Mickey D's was during discovery, they had loads of internal memos that showed:

• They were selling coffee at higher temperatures than recommended.
• The hotter the coffee the better it sold.
• They had multiple reports of customers being burned and injured.

So the jury with knowledge that the defendant sold a product that was at a higher temperature than recommended solely to increase profits and with reports of multiple customer injuries, it was easy to see why they returned such a huge verdict. The verdict was reduced and so was the temperature of Mcdonalds coffee.

 

[Sparda29]

You are just a clueless individual. I don't know how you think or if you think at all. You draw conclusions without having any knowledge of the facts. The McDonalds coffee case is perfect. First, the lady did NOT want to sue McDonalds. She requested they pay for her medical expenses, which would have been in the thousands. The trouble for Mickey D's was during discovery, they had loads of internal memos that showed:

• They were selling coffee at higher temperatures than recommended.
• The hotter the coffee the better it sold.
• They had multiple reports of customers being burned and injured.

So the jury with knowledge that the defendant sold a product that was at a higher temperature than recommended solely to increase profits and with reports of multiple customer injuries, it was easy to see why they returned such a huge verdict. The verdict was reduced and so was the temperature of Mcdonalds coffee.

I've read many reports of the facts and what happened, and I still believe that it was the lady's fault that she got burned.

Isn't it obvious that coffee is supposed to be hot? Personally, when I get coffee I'd hope that it's still hot by the time I get to school if I buy it near my house. Thus, I'd want it to be pretty hot when I buy it. McDonald's sold their coffee at 185 degrees when the customer gets it. (Yes, it's pretty hot, third degree burns occur in 1-2 seconds of contact.) Had the temperature been 150 degrees, the woman would have still been burned by the coffee.

Second, she was holding the coffee cup in her crotch region when the spill happened. Common sense? Knowing that the coffee is hot, would you hold a coffee cup between your legs? Why should McD's even pay for her medical expenses? Had she been holding the coffee cup properly, it wouldn't have spilled onto her lap.

Other ridiculous lawsuits I've heard of, a burglar broke into someone's house, and then was shot, he tried suing. People slipping and falling on the sidewalk due to ice because the owner didn't shovel the property. Umm common sense, I don't have to shovel my own property if I don't want to.

 

[Old Timer]

I've read many reports of the facts and what happened, and I still believe that it was the lady's fault that she got burned.

Isn't it obvious that coffee is supposed to be hot? Personally, when I get coffee I'd hope that it's still hot by the time I get to school if I buy it near my house. Thus, I'd want it to be pretty hot when I buy it. McDonald's sold their coffee at 185 degrees when the customer gets it. (Yes, it's pretty hot, third degree burns occur in 1-2 seconds of contact.) Had the temperature been 150 degrees, the woman would have still been burned by the coffee.

Second, she was holding the coffee cup in her crotch region when the spill happened. Common sense? Knowing that the coffee is hot, would you hold a coffee cup between your legs? Why should McD's even pay for her medical expenses? Had she been holding the coffee cup properly, it wouldn't have spilled onto her lap.

Other ridiculous lawsuits I've heard of, a burglar broke into someone's house, and then was shot, he tried suing. People slipping and falling on the sidewalk due to ice because the owner didn't shovel the property. Umm common sense, I don't have to shovel my own property if I don't want to.

Common sense, you have none. You are the most narcissistic person I have come across in a long time. I feel sorry for people who have to interact with you on a daily basis..... It's a shame to see a human being without a modicum of compassion. Such a waste...

For your own good as a person and as a pharmacist, I suggest you read this.

 

[jung1]

I say we should get even.

Every time a judge convicts an innocent or a politician passes a bad law, they should be jailed too.