Jobs galore!

[allopathdoc]

We have two full time pathology faculty positions in a major city and top institution. Among the higher paying jobs in academia. No applicants! I guess the market is pretty good now!

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[cmz]

I am recruiting for 1 FTE position and no nibbles either. Quite odd. I would say that the market is at an all time high for those seeking employment.

 

[coroner]

We have two full time pathology faculty positions in a major city and top institution. Among the higher paying jobs in academia. No applicants! I guess the market is pretty good now!

What I find more fascinating is you joined in 2009 and haven't posted in over 11 years. Most people with that kind of hiatus never return to SDN. That kind of resilience deserves recognition! Mods, can we get him a badge..?

 

[gbwillner]

I am recruiting for 1 FTE position and no nibbles either. Quite odd. I would say that the market is at an all time high for those seeking employment.

Does this mean that Drifter76 never applied to your position???? When he so desperately needed a new job?????????? Because his job was intolerable?????????? and there are no good jobs in path??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am SHOCKED, I tell you.

 

[cmz]

Does this mean that Drifter76 never applied to your position???? When he so desperately needed a new job?????????? Because his job was intolerable?????????? and there are no good jobs in path??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am SHOCKED, I tell you.

No reply from Drifter76 I was completely ready to have a phone interview with a paid site visit if we both felt our practice fit the bill for everyone involved. The offer still stands

 

[gbwillner]

No reply from Drifter76 I was completely ready to have a phone interview with a paid site visit if we both felt our practice fit the bill for everyone involved. The offer still stands

@caffeinegirl there is a new job out there for you too!!!!

 

[allopathdoc]

What I find more fascinating is you joined in 2009 and haven't posted in over 11 years. Most people with that kind of hiatus never return to SDN. That kind of resilience deserves recognition! Mods, can we get him a badge..?

What I find more fascinating is you joined in 2009 and haven't posted in over 11 years. Most people with that kind of hiatus never return to SDN. That kind of resilience deserves recognition! Mods, can we get him a badge..?

yeah, I am surprised I still remember my login and password and it still works. I hope it is my account. I visited occasionally, just never logged in.

 

[cmz]

@caffeinegirl there is a new job out there for you too!!!!

I do have a preference on having a cytopath boarded AP/CP in the group. Base is around $300K (more if seasoned and is familiar with EBUS/EUS-guided FNAs, thyroid, etc). I am also interested in hemepath/molecular. 401K with company match. Health insurance + Med/Mal covered by group. Sorry no vision or dental. If you're interested in partnership, please have your checkbook ready ...

 

[KeratinPearls]

Just because there are jobs out there offering 300k doesn’t necessarily mean someone is willing to uproot their family to move to said job.

Where is the job? Aren’t you in rural Texas? I surely would not be willing to move to rural “insert state” or ghetto “insert city” if you paid much more than my current salary. Caffeinegirl may be regionally restricted, possibly living near a large city with a tight job market.

There are jobs out there but just because there’s A job doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right for you because of family reasons, etc. Not entirely fair to caffeinegirl to say “hey there’s a job go take it!” Unless you know her situation.

Living in a place where you aren’t happy is not good for your mental health (don’t forget how it can affect your work as well). I’ve been there. Imagine how your kids would feel. Yes rural is good for some people but can have an impact on your mental health if you don’t enjoy that environment.

I interviewed at the program at Temple, Texas one time. There’s nothing there. The hospital is the largest employer there. One of the pathologists was moving to Austin (from what I remember) because her kid wasn’t happy. I interviewed at jobs where pathologists were commuting one hour back and forth from their jobs because there was nothing going on in that particular city.

The LAST thing you want in your practice is a miserable employee or coworker.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Thanks for the offer! But I'm good - diversified and financially stable not due to pathology.
Regardless, just as KeratinPearls mentioned, the job market is not just about job availability nationwide, but also in regions. Not everyone can move anywhere a job is posted, and not everyone matches the requirements listed. I've definitely seen a trend/uptick in molecular/hemepath type jobs, so that would be a recommendation to trainees who are perusing the board. It's a good sign that more jobs are available - when I finished training I got the only job in the area I was looking for - that's right, there was only one private practice job in the entire metro area. I hope that isn't the case anymore.

 

[gbwillner]

I will also say that for Molecular, I see jobs posted literally every day. There is a ton of opportunity. I've actively been recruiting 2 for like 6 months now. But I am very picky.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Things are looking up! 10 years ago jobs were hard to come by, even in Mexican border towns and towns built in the midwest, with only corn fields for hundreds of miles around.
We still lag behind other fields of medicine by miles. Gbwillner and others can still be picky when hiring. In ortho, a group would be lucky to even get this guy to come for the interview, regardless of sign on bonuses and relocation packages.

 

[Sulfinator]

Our group is looking to hire, too. Private practice, partnership track. Compensation is good (better than I ever expected to make). A few years ago this would have been filled in a month or two. But we’ve been looking for 6 months now . . .

 

[cmz]

I just want to put it out there that jobs are available for a "living wage" with numerous benefits. Please never bitch about this again until the medicine bubble pops. Thank you.

 

[gorillamunch]

Would you hire a Canadian?

 

[HowlPrenderghast]

Would you hire a Canadian?

Is there an oversupply of Pathologists in Canada? Just curious.

 

[Sulfinator]

Would you hire a Canadian?

One of the pathologists in our group is Canadian. So, yes.

 

[gorillamunch]

Is there an oversupply of Pathologists in Canada? Just curious.

I am not aware of an oversupply of pathologists in Canada.

 

[shikimate]

There is and there isn't an oversupply, depends on what you need.
Due to poor central planning, most APCP residencies in Canada have been replaced with AP only residencies (still 5 years mind you). So there is an over-supply of AP graduates, who then go on to do 1 or even 2 fellowships (6-7 years total of training). Then they end up in community practice, where their fellowship training goes to waste. So yes, there is an over supply of AP.

On the other hand, there is a severe under supply of APCP in Canada. It is extremely hard to recruit someone who have basic hemepath skills or who can oversee parts of laboratory other than histopathology. Community hospitals, more and more are turning to PhD trained chemist and microbiologists to fill the void. Older APCP pathologists are retiring at a fast rate. Interest in APCP is at all time low. I think there were 6 residency spots per 1 applicant for APCP last year.

For whatever weird reason, APCP residents who have done 5 years of training all decide to go to fellowship in AP fields. It is totally not necessary, as their APCP certificate will land them a job without fellowship. But the academians doing the planning all have them believe they cannot sign out a fibroid without Gyne fellowship in case it's a SFT or stromal sarcoma or something.

 

[LADoc00]

Job market for pathology is following the remainder of the modern workforce: lots of people want part time work under their conditions or no work at all.

Pay rate for pathologists is now massively falling behind the inflationary pay curve and reimbursements set to drop further preventing any market solution to the problem.

Its pretty much a dumpster fire all around.

I expect many path groups to fold in the next 1/2 decade.

 

[Iceman24]

One of the pathologists in our group is Canadian. So, yes.

And the group will sponsor the visa, right?

 

[Iceman24]

Does this mean that Drifter76 never applied to your position???? When he so desperately needed a new job?????????? Because his job was intolerable?????????? and there are no good jobs in path??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am SHOCKED, I tell you.

So childish to bully people just because their opinion is different from yours...

 

[Spikebd]

Job market for pathology is following the remainder of the modern workforce: lots of people want part time work under their conditions or no work at all.

Pay rate for pathologists is now massively falling behind the inflationary pay curve and reimbursements set to drop further preventing any market solution to the problem.

Its pretty much a dumpster fire all around.

I expect many path groups to fold in the next 1/2 decade.

People aren’t interested in working for morbidly obese boomers who made it, but then proceeded to pull up the ladder behind them.

Why struggle through trays and trays of 200 slides a day when you could do yard work for 75% of the same pay and nowhere near the same liability.

 

[gbwillner]

So childish to bully people just because their opinion is different from yours...

Is that what you call it? That person came in here for months with doom and gloom and called out everyone who didn't agree that the job market was terrible (that we had our eyes closed to reality, not that we just disagreed). He said he was from a good program and was stuck in a terrible job and had no prospects or something to that effect. That he'd been looking for months but there was nothing. There was not honest discussion of the issues from him. If you disagreed on his points and provided an argument or evidence, he stated we were not the intended audience of his rants.

Then someone says he is recruiting for a good job and invites this person to apply. They do not. In fact I haven't seen him since.

To me that seems more like calling out BS- someone who just wants to gripe and complain.

 

[LADoc00]

People aren’t interested in working for morbidly obese boomers who made it, but then proceeded to pull up the ladder behind them.

Why struggle through trays and trays of 200 slides a day when you could do yard work for 75% of the same pay and nowhere near the same liability.

I like the random fatty comment. I literally LOL'd at my desk. Well done sir. I dont at all disagree with your assessment. I think the BIGGEST issue facing pathology will be the utter lack of monkeys to look at slides. Will be a breath of fresh air personally.

 

[LADoc00]

What is happening in a nutshell:

1.) acceleration of retirement trends in pathology which has had the oldest working age of any physician specialty in medicine for decades. COVID has scared this demographic into the next phase plain and simple.

2.) the massive decade long drop in TC income collapsing the bulk of the passive income train in anatomic pathology. Without the passive income side, many older pathologists are simply calling it quits. I would say that will be facing an actual tipping point where slides are more expensive to make than you are reimbursed very soon, if we are not already there in some locations. AI solutions to reading dont even remotely make up for the fact you still need to make a slide. It could be that 50% of the PC eventually has to go to subsidizing the TC part, at which point this field is basically dead.

3.) massive gender reversal in trainees. Now women dominate not just medical school slots but entire fields considered once to be "lifestyle" specialties. They are less inclined to work full time, less inclined to grind it out and less inclined to take call endlessly day after day. Women pathologists are actually better at putting a dollar amount on any aspect of work they do and are far more willing to tell employers/groups to STFU and actually quit when they feel pressured. This is creating a massive real labor shortage at time when the older demographic is simultaneously bailing out because although we might be training more pathologists, the full time equivalent manpower available is massively contracting.

4.) runaway inflation, like NASCAR speed inflation raising tons of wages of ancillary healthcare salaries at the same time reimbursement from actually doing healthcare paid through insurance drops. The salary expectations of new hires FAR EXCEEDS a reasonable income they can potentially earn signing out cases. The millennial hires dont necessarily want a business partnership but instead want guaranteed income, which now is actually very intelligent given what has happened with hospital elective procedure shutdowns, massively insurance payment drops etc.

I think we are facing a tsunami of folks leaving medicine, working part time and finding a path through other fields where they can use their healthcare knowledge in a less demanding non-patient care scenario.

But let's be 100% clear: the job openings and the actual pay potential for pathologist are 2 totally different metrics. You can have tons of job openings and still have those jobs be so unpalatable in terms of pay and work conditions that the market is horrendous. I think we will see a completely bizarre non-Capitalistic market trend where job openings will skyrocket yet the pay offered will actually significantly DECREASE. Pathology and medicine in general cannot absorb wage inversion like other fields.

This will result in a near total collapse of the traditional biz model of private practice pathology. There is however a Noah's Ark in the situation but that is behind my paywall...

 

[pathres9999]

2.) the massive decade long drop in TC income collapsing the bulk of the passive income train in anatomic pathology. Without the passive income side, many older pathologists are simply calling it quits. I would say that will be facing an actual tipping point where slides are more expensive to make than you are reimbursed very soon, if we are not already there in some locations. AI solutions to reading dont even remotely make up for the fact you still need to make a slide. It could be that 50% of the PC eventually has to go to subsidizing the TC part, at which point this field is basically dead.

4.) runaway inflation, like NASCAR speed inflation raising tons of wages of ancillary healthcare salaries at the same time reimbursement from actually doing healthcare paid through insurance drops. The salary expectations of new hires FAR EXCEEDS a reasonable income they can potentially earn signing out cases. The millennial hires dont necessarily want a business partnership but instead want guaranteed income, which now is actually very intelligent given what has happened with hospital elective procedure shutdowns, massively insurance payment drops etc.

I always wonder with these two points if we will ever see a point in pathology where it would actually make you more money to not use your medical degree rather than practice as a pathologist. I don't exactly mean equal salary to some other non-MD job equivalent, but for opportunity of employment. For example you want to practice at a specific location; however, it would make more sense for a lesser paying consultant job rather than a pathologist job. Curious if this already has been happening or might happen.

Still I am still curious how the job market expanded so much; without seeing the data I still think there is a lot of speculation with the sudden increase (I think its a combo of retirement and job hiring freezes secondary to COVID prior to job market explosion).

 

[LADoc00]

I always wonder with these two points if we will ever see a point in pathology where it would actually make you more money to not use your medical degree rather than practice as a pathologist. I don't exactly mean equal salary to some other non-MD job equivalent, but for opportunity of employment. For example you want to practice at a specific location; however, it would make more sense for a lesser paying consultant job rather than a pathologist job. Curious if this already has been happening or might happen.

Still I am still curious how the job market expanded so much; without seeing the data I still think there is a lot of speculation with the sudden increase (I think its a combo of retirement and job hiring freezes secondary to COVID prior to job market explosion).

We are at this point already especially for many employed model pathologists. Little things like the Theranos trial putting massive emphasis on the PERSONAL liability that CLIA directors might be expected to have in addition to the professional liability, the increasing expectation of after hours intraoperative consultation, the complexity of answering questions round the clock about new lab tests, reagent shortages, new EMR systems, billing etc, creeping malpractice costs, ever more complex license maintenance requirements, host of new loyalty clauses disguised as "COI documents" many hospital attorneys are deploying to crush entrepreneurialism etc must be taken into as a financial cost when comparing salary A vs. B.

If you were making say 200-250K pushing glass, making 150K with ZERO career ending mistake possibility, zero call, zero headache is far more than equivalent.

You have to think of every diagnosis you make as a small but highly significant casino bet: the upside maybe as little as 30 bucks but the downside risk is essentially your entire career.

How many bets does even a great pathologist have in their career before they go "tits-up"??

 

[Allegri]

The point about TC and cost of making slides is pertinent here, as our entire histotech staff quits in favor of jobs in industry or no job at all. I don't know how we're going to replace them in this market. Who else is struggling to staff their labs right now?

 

[Zarniwoop]

The point about TC and cost of making slides is pertinent here, as our entire histotech staff quits in favor of jobs in industry or no job at all. I don't know how we're going to replace them in this market. Who else is struggling to staff their labs right now?

This is exactly what we see throughout our entire economy. I tried to get a drink at Starbucks the other day. The door was locked with a sign explaining they cannot stay open for lack of employees. Can't get slides cut and can't prep a latte. The interest in being a part of the workforce isn't there, and that seems to apply to people at all education and skill levels, and to people all around the globe.

 

[Med Director New England]

What is happening in a nutshell:

1.) acceleration of retirement trends in pathology which has had the oldest working age of any physician specialty in medicine for decades. COVID has scared this demographic into the next phase plain and simple.

2.) the massive decade long drop in TC income collapsing the bulk of the passive income train in anatomic pathology. Without the passive income side, many older pathologists are simply calling it quits. I would say that will be facing an actual tipping point where slides are more expensive to make than you are reimbursed very soon, if we are not already there in some locations. AI solutions to reading dont even remotely make up for the fact you still need to make a slide. It could be that 50% of the PC eventually has to go to subsidizing the TC part, at which point this field is basically dead.

3.) massive gender reversal in trainees. Now women dominate not just medical school slots but entire fields considered once to be "lifestyle" specialties. They are less inclined to work full time, less inclined to grind it out and less inclined to take call endlessly day after day. Women pathologists are actually better at putting a dollar amount on any aspect of work they do and are far more willing to tell employers/groups to STFU and actually quit when they feel pressured. This is creating a massive real labor shortage at time when the older demographic is simultaneously bailing out because although we might be training more pathologists, the full time equivalent manpower available is massively contracting.

4.) runaway inflation, like NASCAR speed inflation raising tons of wages of ancillary healthcare salaries at the same time reimbursement from actually doing healthcare paid through insurance drops. The salary expectations of new hires FAR EXCEEDS a reasonable income they can potentially earn signing out cases. The millennial hires dont necessarily want a business partnership but instead want guaranteed income, which now is actually very intelligent given what has happened with hospital elective procedure shutdowns, massively insurance payment drops etc.

I think we are facing a tsunami of folks leaving medicine, working part time and finding a path through other fields where they can use their healthcare knowledge in a less demanding non-patient care scenario.

But let's be 100% clear: the job openings and the actual pay potential for pathologist are 2 totally different metrics. You can have tons of job openings and still have those jobs be so unpalatable in terms of pay and work conditions that the market is horrendous. I think we will see a completely bizarre non-Capitalistic market trend where job openings will skyrocket yet the pay offered will actually significantly DECREASE. Pathology and medicine in general cannot absorb wage inversion like other fields.

This will result in a near total collapse of the traditional biz model of private practice pathology. There is however a Noah's Ark in the situation but that is behind my paywall...

Good points. Esp #4 and one footnote / sub-topic

- we have a major shortage of good staff for labs including MT, lab aids, histotechs, lab managers etc. Even cytotechs are hard to find nowadays in spite of Pap volume declines and major consolidation of Paps to the big 2 and other larger labs b/c cyto training programs began shuttering some time ago. Cuts in TC make it harder to pony of the $ to hire and keep good tech staff. Many of them have opportunities in non clinical labs and can easily walk away to Greener pastures.

I am starting to see and hear of quality issues related to errors related to too few staff, under qualified staff, and good staff making mistakes b/c their work is getting interrupted by something like a phone call that used to be answered by support staff or aids that no longer exist. Pathology leaders are also in a poor position to take a stand against admins making these decisions b/c the alternative may be to peel back all but essential lab services, esp things like the the tc piece of AP.

This is making the already tough job of a pathologist just that much harder and increasing the risks of lab directors…

 

[Spikebd]

This is exactly what we see throughout our entire economy. I tried to get a drink at Starbucks the other day. The door was locked with a sign explaining they cannot stay open for lack of employees. Can't get slides cut and can't prep a latte. The interest in being a part of the workforce isn't there, and that seems to apply to people at all education and skill levels, and to people all around the globe.

Yep. Changes are happening and we haven’t seen the last of them. I don’t have a crystal ball other than to say the world as we knew it in 2019 isn’t coming back.

 

[coroner]

Let me know what you find out. I want to move to Switzerland and be a pathologist there.

I don’t have a crystal ball other than to say the world as we knew it in 2019 isn’t coming back.

Is that why you want to move to Switzerland?

 

[LADoc00]

The point about TC and cost of making slides is pertinent here, as our entire histotech staff quits in favor of jobs in industry or no job at all. I don't know how we're going to replace them in this market. Who else is struggling to staff their labs right now?

Almost every lab I work with has a Staffingapocalypse situation that is directly affecting patient care. This will accelerate as reimbursement begin dropping with the new Medicare cuts.

this is why I no longer see a market servicing hospital based pathology practices for long. At this point they are destined to implode. I also dont think the trajectory can be altered either.

What I see coming down the pipe is small to medium sized hospitals just outsourcing the entire lab and pathology wing to commercial players like Quest who then contract with pathologists to remotely sign out the meat via digi. Given these commercial shops will just select the lowest labor costs, there will be absolutely zero market niche for super high end trained scope monkeys, med students will realize this fairly quickly and the entire field will career into the Event Horizon before cases are sent to India, Pakistan and China.

I think we are about 10 years off this but things are accelerating so quickly who knows.

~I would be very very cautious about buying into a practice where the ROI is greater 2 years.
~I would flat out ignore groups with a track to partnership that is greater than 3 years.
~I would always negotiate the highest upfront salary with a group even to the point of telling them partnership has no strong interest for you.
~I would probably work part time for a few groups rather than throwing my entire career into single groups due to the coming apocalypse. I might even locums around for some time to get a sense of who the survivors will be.

 

[2brads]

Radiologist here. I see a lot of parallels between imaging and path (visually oriented, highly specialized, non-clinical, banker's hours) and we are facing a lot of the same issues (consolidation, PE-backed buyouts, distance/tele-based medicine, high demand). But there is clearly a disconnect between path and rads when it comes to reimbursement. Why is that? Do rads just do more volume? Do path reports take a lot longer to generate? Does path have less political clout? At my hospital, radiology was one of the only specialties that stayed in the black during the pandemic (outpt rads got killed though), how did path do?

 

[Med Director New England]

The point about TC and cost of making slides is pertinent here, as our entire histotech staff quits in favor of jobs in industry or no job at all. I don't know how we're going to replace them in this market. Who else is struggling to staff their labs right now?

I am too
HTs are also unique compared to MTs who can be trained to work and cross cover each other in different benches within a big CP lab.

No one but a HT can perform microtomy. I don’t see too many smallish hospital AP labs doing less than 10K AP accessions / yr surviving b/c of difficulty staffing HTs. These AP labs will be shuttered and consolidated into a larger partner lab (academic center or private lab) with a TC service agreement.

 

[deleted314957]

What is happening in a nutshell:

1.) acceleration of retirement trends in pathology which has had the oldest working age of any physician specialty in medicine for decades. COVID has scared this demographic into the next phase plain and simple.

2.) the massive decade long drop in TC income collapsing the bulk of the passive income train in anatomic pathology. Without the passive income side, many older pathologists are simply calling it quits. I would say that will be facing an actual tipping point where slides are more expensive to make than you are reimbursed very soon, if we are not already there in some locations. AI solutions to reading dont even remotely make up for the fact you still need to make a slide. It could be that 50% of the PC eventually has to go to subsidizing the TC part, at which point this field is basically dead.

3.) massive gender reversal in trainees. Now women dominate not just medical school slots but entire fields considered once to be "lifestyle" specialties. They are less inclined to work full time, less inclined to grind it out and less inclined to take call endlessly day after day. Women pathologists are actually better at putting a dollar amount on any aspect of work they do and are far more willing to tell employers/groups to STFU and actually quit when they feel pressured. This is creating a massive real labor shortage at time when the older demographic is simultaneously bailing out because although we might be training more pathologists, the full time equivalent manpower available is massively contracting.

4.) runaway inflation, like NASCAR speed inflation raising tons of wages of ancillary healthcare salaries at the same time reimbursement from actually doing healthcare paid through insurance drops. The salary expectations of new hires FAR EXCEEDS a reasonable income they can potentially earn signing out cases. The millennial hires dont necessarily want a business partnership but instead want guaranteed income, which now is actually very intelligent given what has happened with hospital elective procedure shutdowns, massively insurance payment drops etc.

I think we are facing a tsunami of folks leaving medicine, working part time and finding a path through other fields where they can use their healthcare knowledge in a less demanding non-patient care scenario.

But let's be 100% clear: the job openings and the actual pay potential for pathologist are 2 totally different metrics. You can have tons of job openings and still have those jobs be so unpalatable in terms of pay and work conditions that the market is horrendous. I think we will see a completely bizarre non-Capitalistic market trend where job openings will skyrocket yet the pay offered will actually significantly DECREASE. Pathology and medicine in general cannot absorb wage inversion like other fields.

This will result in a near total collapse of the traditional biz model of private practice pathology. There is however a Noah's Ark in the situation but that is behind my paywall...

Screw Noah’s ark and take up scuba after the deluge. Retirement is better.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I am too
HTs are also unique compared to MTs who can be trained to work and cross cover each other in different benches within a big CP lab.

No one but a HT can perform microtomy. I don’t see too many smallish hospital AP labs doing less than 10K AP accessions / yr surviving b/c of difficulty staffing HTs. These AP labs will be shuttered and consolidated into a larger partner lab (academic center or private lab) with a TC service agreement.

You can on the job train people to do histology. We do it all the time. It is part of a career ladder for high achievers in phlebotomy, accessioning etc. It's not hard to keep a good supply of histotechs.

Or you could partner with the local prison and train inmates to be histotechs. I know of a few labs that have done that with success.

I hope those of you that celebrated the TC cuts over the years are happy now. You will be sharing your piece of the pie if you want to keep things going.

 

[shikimate]

Radiologist here. I see a lot of parallels between imaging and path (visually oriented, highly specialized, non-clinical, banker's hours) and we are facing a lot of the same issues (consolidation, PE-backed buyouts, distance/tele-based medicine, high demand). But there is clearly a disconnect between path and rads when it comes to reimbursement. Why is that? Do rads just do more volume? Do path reports take a lot longer to generate? Does path have less political clout? At my hospital, radiology was one of the only specialties that stayed in the black during the pandemic (outpt rads got killed though), how did path do?

I can only speak to parts of Canada:
1) radiologists are very good lobbyists. They band well together and aren't afraid to spend money to lobby when needed.
They also have a unified voice. Some of them are very outspoken. While sometimes they get into controversies, it also serves as free exposure for the field to public.
2) radiologists have good PR strategy. For example they ran donation ads for new MRI machines at hospital, gives them public exposure and also $$ instead of begging hospital admin for money. Again this relates to good lobbying and bureaucratic shrewdness.
3) radiologists are good at creating demand for their service. For example they aren't afraid to speak out at tumor boards recommending more radiologic or nuclear medicine investigations or followups. This creates more work and justification for more $.

On the side of pathology:
- many pathologists are very smart and some are very interested in communicating with physicians and the public. But many do not speak English as their first language, so their ability and talent is lost by the language barrier.
- many pathologists who are from other countries do not have a good understanding of the bureaucratic system and power structure in North America, so either they are not speaking to the right person to make changes, or they falsely assume there aren't ways to create changes.
- many aspiring residents in pathology have been fooled by their program directors. There are some that are ambitious and would work very well as community advocates, but most programs have gone down the academic hole. AKA need more research and fellowships to become medical experts, but know nothing about the outside world. There isn't enough community outreach and propaganda because most pathologists are paid a salary/flat fee, so there isn't an incentive to create business or make a splash in the community.

 

[ScubaV]

I've never been interested in research or teaching, so academics is out. I always assumed I'd do private practice, but currently working as an employee. The way things are going, it's hard to imagine a private practice (partnership) situation that wouldn't be a huge risk. And while my salary is decent compared to some employed numbers I see quoted on here, there are no built in raises or cost-of-living increases in the contract. I save 20% gross for retirement in index funds, but sometimes I wonder if I'll have to gamble and hit on the next meme stock or meme crypto (since it's all about hype rather than fundamentals now) in order to retire in a reasonable timeframe with the same lifestyle.

Obviously it's a totally different world of concern than the retail wage slaves face, but the long-term financial prospects of being a physician in general or a pathologist in particular looks kind of bleak. Especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of loans and lost wages during the long education and training phase.

 

[shikimate]

I've never been interested in research or teaching, so academics is out. I always assumed I'd do private practice, but currently working as an employee. The way things are going, it's hard to imagine a private practice (partnership) situation that wouldn't be a huge risk. And while my salary is decent compared to some employed numbers I see quoted on here, there are no built in raises or cost-of-living increases in the contract. I save 20% gross for retirement in index funds, but sometimes I wonder if I'll have to gamble and hit on the next meme stock or meme crypto (since it's all about hype rather than fundamentals now) in order to retire in a reasonable timeframe with the same lifestyle.

Obviously it's a totally different world of concern than the retail wage slaves face, but the long-term financial prospects of being a physician in general or a pathologist in particular looks kind of bleak. Especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of loans and lost wages during the long education and training phase.

You make a good point ScubaV. At the present, pathologists are paid reasonable enough to have an upper middle class living, but whether this is sustainable for the next 30+ years is up for debate. At the present rate of inflation, at least in Canada it's going to be very difficult for the up and coming generation. Houses are easily increasing 10-30% a year, not to mention other costs. True inflation measured using M2 is easily 15%+ a year. Defined benefit pensions have mostly disappeared.
So other than moving to a low cost community, spend less, and invest more, I have not came up with a better strategy. There are fee-for-service places where one could potentially make more, but again it's all proportional to the amount of work you do, so it doesn't make you more productive, it just make you work longer time.

 

[futuredoc331]

This was an interesting read.

I think the important thing trainees need to really get through their heads when they're applying to pathology is that they will probably find A job, but that job could be anywhere in the country. That lack of flexibility can be really difficult.

I know in transfusion medicine the number of postings has almost doubled from 30 something to almost 60 in the entire country. The optimists can't believe that the heavens have blessed us with such a market. The problem is, that's less than 1 per state considering New York hosts about 10 of the positions.

 

[futuredoc331]

Another interesting development this year is the number of graduating students who are applying to pathology. Schools that typically have 1-2 go into the field now have 8. Seems that there could be a recipe for disaster brewing.

 

[LADoc00]

Another interesting development this year is the number of graduating students who are applying to pathology. Schools that typically have 1-2 go into the field now have 8. Seems that there could be a recipe for disaster brewing.

Students thinking pathology in medical school are half a decade to a full decade out at least from affecting anything in the pathology job market.

At the current COVID mutation rate and technological movements in digital, that might as well be like 2,000 years from now.

 

[path24]

The Denver job market sounds amazing.

 

[PATHDOCNYCNJ]

It is COVID that caused this shift. Since I finished residency in 2000, and forced to take fellowships till I found a job four years later, I have never seen a job market this good. But after Covid, I have seen pathologists fired by the hospital due to the vaxx mandates, and a lot of pathologists have retired. A few years ago, it was near impossible to get a job where I live in NYC, or even outside my home state, before Covid. I remember trying to get a job in another region in the Northeast, only to be told they would prefer graduates from local residency programs.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Definitely the best job market I have seen in long time. The field is back from the dead thanks to the stock market, covid etc.

Pathology: Resurrections. Coming to a theatre near you.

 

[gbwillner]

I got 3 headhunters calling me about jobs last week alone.

 

[TrojanRaggy]

How long will it last?

 

[cmz]

The locums company I spoke with to help me find locums for my group is calling and emailing me on a weekly basis to see if I want to do locums. NO, MF'er!! I AM THE ONE WHO NEEDS LOCUMS HELP!