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KCUMB Discussion thread 2008-2009

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HarveyCushing

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No questions, just comments.
If you complain about a site, you are already at a disadvantage because you have identified that you are not getting a beneficial medical education. If you want to be proficient entering residency, you will spend elective time somewhere learning what you did not learn at that site. There is also a fine line between complaining, and becoming a problem for the school. The school will get rid of a site to the extent that they have another one to send students or the site gets rid of the school first. Otherwise the site stays. Remember, preceptors are not paid. Also sites vary greatly, some of them have diadactics and some don't. You realize the importance of this in residency when you have to present and participate at case conferences, morning report, etc.
As far as what you can and can not do on rotations, solely at the discretion of your preceptor(s) and site(s), regardless of how much initiative you show.
The sites are "hit-and-miss." It's a lot of money to pay for a random chance to be assigned to a "hit" site.

I agree there are some not so great core sites, however there are just as many great core sites imho. If a student spends time researching the different sites, talking to upper classmen (3rd/4th years), and comparing core sites to each other you can usually find the good programs. However some students have to go to a particular area of the country, or just don't spend the time researching the core sites. They see that a program has a neurosurgery residency or a derm residency and put that place down as their #1, when in reality it might not be the best place to go for your clinical rotations. While you might have had a bad experience, I'm not trying to take that away from you because you sound legit, I know many others that have had a wonderful time and learned a lot at their core site. Just remember, not every core site is created equally. Spend the extra time and really research your possibilities. If you aren't limited by geography or family, it makes it that much easier to find a great site.
 

allopurinol

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I agree there are some not so great core sites, however there are just as many great core sites imho. If a student spends time researching the different sites, talking to upper classmen (3rd/4th years), and comparing core sites to each other you can usually find the good programs. However some students have to go to a particular area of the country, or just don't spend the time researching the core sites. They see that a program has a neurosurgery residency or a derm residency and put that place down as their #1, when in reality it might not be the best place to go for your clinical rotations. While you might have had a bad experience, I'm not trying to take that away from you because you sound legit, I know many others that have had a wonderful time and learned a lot at their core site. Just remember, not every core site is created equally. Spend the extra time and really research your possibilities. If you aren't limited by geography or family, it makes it that much easier to find a great site.

You have just illistruated my point. All sites are not created equally, which means some will have great rotations, some won't. If everyone in the class does as you suggest, there will not be enough rotations for everyone, and some will end up with poor sites anyway. This should not be an issue for the amount of money you pay to go there. They simply do not have the resources to provide a solid clinical education to all of its students.
Actually, I do not think my experience was bad, it was just the reality of my naivety when choosing a school because I did not know then that clinicals are what make your medical education. Older and wiser now.
 

ODorDO

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Hello guys, I was just reading the 2010-CIB for KCUMB and it stated "Cumulative GPA of 3.4" does that mean that's the minimum requirement?
 

EM2BE

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Hello guys, I was just reading the 2010-CIB for KCUMB and it stated "Cumulative GPA of 3.4" does that mean that's the minimum requirement?

When I was in the class, the minimum GPA was 3.0 to graduate. Maybe 3.4 is for automatic admission????
 

EM2BE

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so did u get in with a 3.0?? I feel confused

Yes, but I was in the first class...things have changed since then with all the admission stuff so I don't know what the most recent information is. Wish I could help more.
 

MedStudentWanna

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Concerned here. I'm thinking of applying to KCUMB, but reading the pros and cons gives me second thoughts as does something I'm seeing here. Why is it that those who fail to get into the school of osteopathic medicine are offered the chance to do a master's in bioethics and get in the following year? I can see doing a special master's in the medical sciences like other schools like Georgetown do in order to prove yourself and that you can handle the rigors of med school, but bioethics? None of the bioethics class resemble med school classes, do they? What will doing that program tell the adcoms about the student that they couldn't glean from GPA, MCAT, and courseload on the transcript?

I guess my question is how is someone who didn't get in the regular way more qualified to get in after doing a master's in bioethics? It sounds like the master's program is just a backdoor to the DO program, but I don't see why that suddenly prepares someone for medical school. Can someone set me straight?
 

spicedmanna

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Concerned here. I'm thinking of applying to KCUMB, but reading the pros and cons gives me second thoughts as does something I'm seeing here. Why is it that those who fail to get into the school of osteopathic medicine are offered the chance to do a master's in bioethics and get in the following year? I can see doing a special master's in the medical sciences like other schools like Georgetown do in order to prove yourself and that you can handle the rigors of med school, but bioethics? None of the bioethics class resemble med school classes, do they? What will doing that program tell the adcoms about the student that they couldn't glean from GPA, MCAT, and courseload on the transcript?

I guess my question is how is someone who didn't get in the regular way more qualified to get in after doing a master's in bioethics? It sounds like the master's program is just a backdoor to the DO program, but I don't see why that suddenly prepares someone for medical school. Can someone set me straight?

No, I believe you are thinking in the right way. I've often wondered that myself. I think it can be used as a back door for people to get into the DO program; it's certainly set up that way. However, I think programs like this probably fulfill multiple purposes for the school:

1) A guaranteed pool of people for the DO program (tuition for 4 years)
2) A source of additional income (tuition for the MS program, individually and through combined DO/MS)
3) A guaranteed pool of people for the master's programs (promise of DO later on)
4) An attractive feature for DO applicants (who can do a combined DO/MS program)

Basically, it's a brilliant financial move. It's good business.

I cannot comment on how it does or doesn't prepare one for medical school, because as far as I know, we have yet to have a class come from that program into the DO program. It's brand-new.

As to the master's in bioscience program, it does prepare you for the 1st year DO curriculum. They basically have the same information presented to them, by the same professors, using similar (if not the same powerpoints), and likely similar test questions, too. And I believe you have to maintain a certain GPA. So, in a way, they have leg up on things, at least initially.
 
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Grey Wind

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For you KCUMB students -

Do you have to use the KCUMB forms on their website for LORs?
 

Revilla

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For you KCUMB students -

Do you have to use the KCUMB forms on their website for LORs?

I'm not a student yet, but I didn't use their forms and I got an acceptance. I had my LORs sent from Interfolio.
 

Grey Wind

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I'm not a student yet, but I didn't use their forms and I got an acceptance. I had my LORs sent from Interfolio.

Awesome, that's good news.

Congrats on your acceptance!
 

FarthestHorizon

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Concerned here. I'm thinking of applying to KCUMB, but reading the pros and cons gives me second thoughts as does something I'm seeing here. Why is it that those who fail to get into the school of osteopathic medicine are offered the chance to do a master's in bioethics and get in the following year? I can see doing a special master's in the medical sciences like other schools like Georgetown do in order to prove yourself and that you can handle the rigors of med school, but bioethics? None of the bioethics class resemble med school classes, do they? What will doing that program tell the adcoms about the student that they couldn't glean from GPA, MCAT, and courseload on the transcript?

I guess my question is how is someone who didn't get in the regular way more qualified to get in after doing a master's in bioethics? It sounds like the master's program is just a backdoor to the DO program, but I don't see why that suddenly prepares someone for medical school. Can someone set me straight?



To some extent, I do understand what you're saying. But I don't think this is always the case. I'm in the bioethics program. I was an average applicant as far as grades and MCAT are concerned, and I didn't get in. But I think that if you're just average, then they want to see that you have had a variety of other medical experiences. I'm a fairly young applicant, and I obviously have not had the experiences that some other applicants have had. And although this program doesn't really focus on science, you have the chance to get some really great experiences with medicine and healthcare. So in that regard, I think this will make me a medical student who is maybe a little more well rounded.

As far as being able to handle the rigors of medical school, I think that depends. Not all of the bioethics students are automatically accepted into the COM the next year. Some of them have to go through the application process again, so they do get re-evaluated. It's not like an automatic in, they do have to really prove themselves. And all the students have to keep a good GPA, so it's not like you can slack off and expect to get in. I was accepted to other medical schools. But I chose to do the bioethics program because I really wanted to go to KCUMB. And when it got right down to it, I was feeling burnt out after I finished my undergrad degree. So the prospect of putting off medical school for a year sounded pretty good. But, as was earlier stated, the first class of bioethics students has yet to enter the COM. Time will tell.
 

Irish37

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Just withdreew my acceptance, hope someone out there gets a seat.
 

splenomegaly

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You have just illistruated my point. All sites are not created equally, which means some will have great rotations, some won't. If everyone in the class does as you suggest, there will not be enough rotations for everyone, and some will end up with poor sites anyway. This should not be an issue for the amount of money you pay to go there. They simply do not have the resources to provide a solid clinical education to all of its students.
Actually, I do not think my experience was bad, it was just the reality of my naivety when choosing a school because I did not know then that clinicals are what make your medical education. Older and wiser now.

Couldn't agree more, allopurinol. Pre-med students really have no concept of what they want or need from the clinicals. That's where a good medical school (with all of their resources and experience) SHOULD step in a provide EVERY student good clinical experiences. KCUMB does not provide this, nor do they care. In fact, if you care TOO much and speak up, they'll put a little star by your name (and not in the kindergarten-star-for-good-behavior sort of way).
 

liquid8r

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So it seems like clinical rotations are a big ? at KCUMB according to a few of you. For us students that are matriculating, what advice can you impart to avoid a poor clinical experience? There must be some wisdom you past students can provide?
 

Just Joshin

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No offense to you all, but why are you bashing the school to people already accepted? This cycle is over. The people in this thread are going to KCUMB. Wouldn't your efforts be better served in next year's thread or a new thread on the pre-osteo board since you seem to be wanting to tell people to do their research before APPLYING or INTERVIEWING? It's not like the folks in this thread can or will pull their acceptance now. It's July for god's sake. Most are making final preparations to move.
 

EM2BE

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Words of wisdom about all this: Every school has its advantages and disadvantages. Every student will find something to complain about no matter where they go. No single school has rotations that are the best all around, no matter where the hospitals are or what big/small names they have. Be excited that you are where you have likely worked a long time to get to. Enjoy your time in school. Meet new people and enjoy the non-school time you have with them. Congratulations to you all who did get accepted and good luck to those trying this fall.
 

splenomegaly

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Words of wisdom about all this: Every school has its advantages and disadvantages. Every student will find something to complain about no matter where they go. No single school has rotations that are the best all around, no matter where the hospitals are or what big/small names they have. Be excited that you are where you have likely worked a long time to get to. Enjoy your time in school. Meet new people and enjoy the non-school time you have with them. Congratulations to you all who did get accepted and good luck to those trying this fall.

Very sentimental but less true than some of you would like to believe. There ARE schools that have GREAT clinical programs. KCUMB does not. No way around that one. I lived through it. Live in your world where all is fair and equal, but when all of you future KCUMB-ers get your school bill and compare to the education you're receiving, you'll see.
Signing off now. Cheers!
 

spicedmanna

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I agree for the most part. I think, no matter where you are, once you've made a choice to be there, you have to make the most of it. Negative attitudes won't serve you once you've landed. However, this doesn't include deluding yourself with blind optimism. Know what you are going to be facing, the good and the bad. It's a good idea to have a feel for the terrain. It helps you navigate the system better and get the most out of your experience. Definitely celebrate your acceptance and welcome to a wonderful tradition, but also keep your eyes and ears open.
 

allopurinol

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No offense to you all, but why are you bashing the school to people already accepted? This cycle is over. The people in this thread are going to KCUMB. Wouldn't your efforts be better served in next year's thread or a new thread on the pre-osteo board since you seem to be wanting to tell people to do their research before APPLYING or INTERVIEWING? It's not like the folks in this thread can or will pull their acceptance now. It's July for god's sake. Most are making final preparations to move.

No one is bashing. Some of us who have already been through the process are being realistic about our experiences. It is not about encouraging people to pull their acceptances, or not to go there, for that matter. It is simply informative to let them know what they really going into, not the propaganda the school sold them. While all schools have their pros and cons, at the end of the day, clinical education is the core of medical training. KCUMB simply does not have the resources to guarantee a solid clinical education to all of its students. People do visit older threads on occasion, and this one may help others in the future.
 

allopurinol

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Very sentimental but less true than some of you would like to believe. There ARE schools that have GREAT clinical programs. KCUMB does not. No way around that one. I lived through it. Live in your world where all is fair and equal, but when all of you future KCUMB-ers get your school bill and compare to the education you're receiving, you'll see.
Signing off now. Cheers!

I agree.
 

Just Joshin

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No one is bashing. Some of us who have already been through the process are being realistic about our experiences. It is not about encouraging people to pull their acceptances, or not to go there, for that matter. It is simply informative to let them know what they really going into, not the propaganda the school sold them. While all schools have their pros and cons, at the end of the day, clinical education is the core of medical training. KCUMB simply does not have the resources to guarantee a solid clinical education to all of its students. People do visit older threads on occasion, and this one may help others in the future.

That's absurd. If you wanted to help people, you'd start a new thread on pre-osteo where people are wondering where to apply. All you're doing here is taking a thread dedicated at this point in time to people who are going to be starting school this summer and poisoning it. These people worked hard to get to med school and right now when they're excited, enthusiastic, and freaked out, you come on to warn them how awful their choice was? Yeah, you're a real pal.
 

allopurinol

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That's absurd. If you wanted to help people, you'd start a new thread on pre-osteo where people are wondering where to apply. All you're doing here is taking a thread dedicated at this point in time to people who are going to be starting school this summer and poisoning it. These people worked hard to get to med school and right now when they're excited, enthusiastic, and freaked out, you come on to warn them how awful their choice was? Yeah, you're a real pal.

Okay.:rolleyes:
 

liquid8r

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I am stoked to be going to KCUMB. It produces excellent physicians, has a strong reputation, and it is in KC which is probably the greatest city in the Midwest. I am confident that whatever cons come with the school, they won't be enough to keep me from the residency of my choice. It should be an interesting ride.
 

spicedmanna

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It should be an interesting ride.

That much is certain. There was never a dull moment. Hold on to the seat of your pants, because once the ride starts, it'll be a thrill-a-second and when two years have past, you won't know what hit ya. These past two years seem like some kind of dream I had; it's downright surreal.

Anyway, you'll do fine there. Almost everyone does. There may be something to what a bunch of people are saying (won't confirm or deny at this point in my process), but regardless, you are right, it's not going to keep you from what you want. The only thing it will probably do is make you work harder, for better or worse, and it perhaps it'll impact how much value you think you are getting. Truly, though, what you make of it all, is up to you.

It's the ride you signed up for and you thought it was the best choice, so go forth and do the best you can with what you have. (And try to have a little fun along the way, too.) :)
 

spicedmanna

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...and it is in KC which is probably the greatest city in the Midwest....

Now, that I will have to disagree with you on. I've lived in both Chicago, IL and in Kansas City, and truly, I think Chicago is a greater city in so many ways. KCMO and I never gelled, I guess. Wasn't my kind of vibe. I'm happy to be leaving this city, with some good memories, but most of them not. Anyway, if you already think KC is the greatest city in the Midwest, then you should really love it here. :)
 

liquid8r

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Chicago has more culture and is more vibrant but it is also about 4 or 5 times the size of KC. Almost too big, IMO. I grew up near KC so, like you towards Chicago, I have a bias towards it. Anyway, I respect every older student/resident/attending's opinion of the school and city.

At the end of the day, I can get in my car and drive to Oklahoma Joe's if I am stressed about school, hit up some live jazz downtown (in case you couldn't tell from my avatar, I like jazz) or jog through the plaza. Ah, I can't wait to move.
 

KStateDoc

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That's absurd. If you wanted to help people, you'd start a new thread on pre-osteo where people are wondering where to apply. All you're doing here is taking a thread dedicated at this point in time to people who are going to be starting school this summer and poisoning it. These people worked hard to get to med school and right now when they're excited, enthusiastic, and freaked out, you come on to warn them how awful their choice was? Yeah, you're a real pal.

My thoughts exactly...regardless of what these people are saying, I'm still excited to be at KCUMB.
 

LSU Alex

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My thoughts exactly...regardless of what these people are saying, I'm still excited to be at KCUMB.

You should be excited to be entering medical school. It's a great accomplishment. The message to get from people like Allopurinol is be prepared to work hard to make up for any shortfalls in the system. Some people come in thinking this is the greatest thing ever, everyone has their acts together, and all will be well. That is not the case. You will need to work much harder than other students in areas you would think wouldn't be such a task. In the end, you do what you need to do to get your degree. That's all that's important. As far as the school goes if you're happy, praise them and send them an alumni check when you graduate. If you aren't happy, remember that when donation time comes. If you are tired of the negative messages, click "ignore user". I, for one, like hearing both the positive and negative. It keeps you from getting brainwashed. Good luck to y'all this year. Do work, kid! :thumbup:
 
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spicedmanna

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You should be excited to be entering medical school. It's a great accomplishment. The message to get from people like Allopurinol is be prepared to work hard to make up for any shortfalls in the system. Some people come in thinking this is the greatest thing ever, everyone has their acts together, and all will be well. That is not the case. You will need to work much harder that other students in areas you would think wouldn't be such a task. In the end, you do what you need to do to get your degree. That's all that's important. As far as the school goes if you're happy, praise them and send them an alumni check when you graduate. If you aren't happy, remember that when donation time comes. If you are tired of the negative messages, click "ignore user". I, for one, like hearing both the positive and negative. It keeps you from getting brainwashed. Good luck to y'all this year. Do work, kid! :thumbup:

Good post. I agree with your message, especially where I have bolded. You expressed the basic idea of what I was thinking in regard to this subject. :thumbup:
 

EM2BE

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Enjoy the ride all of you! It flies by. Before you know it you will be applying to residency programs! Congrats on your acceptances. Remember that you worked really hard to get where you are. There are many people that would love to have that seat you have (as you have seen in this thread). Keep that in mind throughout time. It always gave me motivation when I needed it. Good luck and hope you all reach your dreams!
 

KB24

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hey i was wondering if somebody could fill me in about this genesis curriculum. i searched it but nothing came up. If someone could elaborate on this id appreciate it thanks
 

spicedmanna

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hey i was wondering if somebody could fill me in about this genesis curriculum. i searched it but nothing came up. If someone could elaborate on this id appreciate it thanks

It's basically a glorified systems-based curriculum that changes a lot (every class tends to have a different experience). You start out with a section that contains basic principles common to all systems, to bring everybody up to speed. This is followed by MSK, CP, GI, and Renal, during your first year, each approximately 6 weeks in length (with the exception of CP, which is about 12 weeks long). Throughout these sections, you have anatomy lab (most extensively during MSK), OMT/OMM lab and lecture, bioethics, communications, pathology lab, and some other scattered stuff. The 2nd year is pretty similar. You start off with Neuro (which is the last time you will be doing anatomy lab), followed by psych/behavioral science, SBL (skin, blood, and lymph), endocrine, and repro.
 

spicedmanna

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It's basically a glorified systems-based curriculum that changes a lot (every class tends to have a different experience). You start out with a section that contains basic principles common to all systems, to bring everybody up to speed. This is followed by MSK, CP, GI, and Renal, during your first year, each approximately 6 weeks in length (with the exception of CP, which is about 12 weeks long). Throughout these sections, you have anatomy lab (most extensively during MSK), OMT/OMM lab and lecture, bioethics, communications, pathology lab, and some other scattered stuff. The 2nd year is pretty similar. You start off with Neuro (which is the last time you will be doing anatomy lab), followed by psych/behavioral science, SBL (skin, blood, and lymph), endocrine, and repro.

For my class, anyway, there was a lot of clinical emphasis, stuff that you might see on a Step 2-type exam, and emphasis on what a "primary care" physician might be called to do. There are a core group of professors, but a lot of lectures will also be done by guests. You get printed handouts and all lectures are recorded. Quizzes every two to three weeks, with an occasional midterm, and then a final. Anatomy, pathology, and OMT practical in between.
 

Revilla

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For my class, anyway, there was a lot of clinical emphasis, stuff that you might see on a Step 2-type exam, and emphasis on what a "primary care" physician might be called to do. There are a core group of professors, but a lot of lectures will also be done by guests. You get printed handouts and all lectures are recorded. Quizzes every two to three weeks, with an occasional midterm, and then a final. Anatomy, pathology, and OMT practical in between.

During our interview day, they told us that starting with the Class of 2013, they would no longer be doing quizzes. Instead, each section would be evaluated based on a midterm grade and a final grade (with practicals for the labs, of course!). Just a heads-up!
 

spicedmanna

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During our interview day, they told us that starting with the Class of 2013, they would no longer be doing quizzes. Instead, each section would be evaluated based on a midterm grade and a final grade (with practicals for the labs, of course!). Just a heads-up!

Ah! Gracias. I didn't know that.
 

Revilla

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Brooke just called to offer me a seat with this year's class! I'm so excited!
 

Revilla

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LOL thanks! I'm looking at flights to get out there and find a place to live. I'm so overwhelmed right now!
 

EM2BE

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Brooke just called to offer me a seat with this year's class! I'm so excited!

Congratulations! I'm sure it's hectic for you right now, but I think this post just gave some people some hope. Proof that people are accepted up to orientation. Hope you find a place!
 

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Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be withdrawing from the Class of 2013 tomorrow. I was accepted into my state school right where I live. I hope my seat goes to another deserving student. Good luck.
 

Rapunzeldances

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I just got a call to be in this year's class! I'm on cloud nine!
 

doctorphil

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Congratulations Rapunzeldances and Revilla!

I'm hoping I get that call in the next few days!
 
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