Keeping your name?

[primadonna22274]

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Way to go girl! You're awesome!
Let's all pray for Hakashi.
p.s. I also think that any of the ladies and/or gentlemen who want to take their future spouse's names or some hybrid thereof are absolutely cool; just not my preference.
Lisa

prejudice? hate? stupidity? Anyone can have their personal opinion, and even be allowed to speak their mind (God, I love this country!), but keep in mind that what you say to others speaks volumes about what kind of a person you are. Arguing Bible passages and name-calling are not going to help. Haskashi, if you really are an 18-year-old genius, then by all means, become a surgeon and make a million dollars a year. You are gifted with great intelligence. However, you also have a tremendous amount of pride, which is one of the seven deadly sins. Don't be that surgeon who is so consumed with himself that he actually believes HE is God, and then ends up committing heinous malpractice in one form or another. In addition, "In God We Trust" doesn't mean that it's illegal not to take your husband's last name. And if you follow the Bible literally, there is no passage that states "Thou shalt take your husband's last name" (If I'm wrong, please correct me 🙂).

Please remember, those of you whose are Christian, that Satan is the Master of confusion, and people, we are WAY beyond confused here. Hakashi is trying to get you mad, get you fired up so you slip up, and so far, people fell for it.

I think it's best to answer the question at hand from the original post, and ignore future postings from Hakashi. If he has insulted you, don't give him the satisfaction of letting him getting to you.

By the way, I am a 28 year old female, living in Democratic Illinois. I am a Republican, I have a B.S., and an M.S. in Speech-Language Pathology plus 50 hours of postgrad research, but decided I wanted to be an MD not PHD. I am hoping to enter med school in 2008. I am getting married this Novemeber to a man who loves the idea of me becoming a physician, so he can retire and stay home with our future kids. He wants to be a dad, but HE wants to wait. I will turn my current last name into a 2nd middle name, because I have some publications, and may have more when I get into medicine. My fiance is completely ok with that, but he would have been completely ok with not taking his name, too. He loves me, not a name. He is also a manly man, he is a mechanic and a rugby player, and the best cuddler in the world!

Anyway, to sum up:
- ignorance breeds prejudice, hate, stupidity
- pride bad
- ignore Hakashi
- take the name you want

And most of all, have a great day! The sun is shining, the temperature is 70F, and tomorrow is FRIDAY!

Meg

 

[tigress]

As an aside, I really hate it when we get mail addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. HisName LastName." I am NOT him, I am not a part of him, I am not his posession. I have my own first name, thank you very much. I was perfectly happy to take my husband's last name, but I refuse to be addressed by his first as well.

It's also going to be cool when we are "Dr. and Dr." or "Drs." 🙂

 

[ocean11]

I don't buy this tripe that Hakashi's GPA is a 4.0; The only thing that's really a '4.0' is the length of Mr. Hakashi's *&^% and that is in Centimeters LOL.......

 

[MoosePilot]

Nope, wouldn't take my husband's name. Keeping my own. I like it, and it's mine, and I don't want to take anybody else's.

Actually, I take that back. I would consider taking my husband's name if he also took mine, ie if both of us became

Firstname Middlename MyLast HisLast

Not hyphenated, just with both names represented in each of our names. I would then go by Dr. MyLast professionally, but would use his name socially, ie, would be Firstname HisLast.

But I wouldn't take his name if he also didn't take mine, because that seems to me to imply that his name is somehow more important than mine just because he is the male of the family... and I don't agree with that.

I don't have any real stake on what random women do, but this one always cracks me up. Your last name is your last name because it was your father's name, right? Or if your family was incredibly progressive, then because it was your grandfather's name. Either way, at some point in the recent past your last name came from a patriarchal progression, unless you're from a unique background or ethnic group. So being labeled with your father's name is ok, because you grew up accustomed to it, but following the tradition with a husband's name is undesirable?

I'm not really trying to start an argument. I'm all for you doing what you want, I'm just a sucker for tradition and a male, so the whole issue just doesn't resonate with me.

NOTE: I posted before reading some of the more heated stuff that went on before my post. Please don't take my post as saying I support or identify with any other posters.

 

[Miss Alyssa]

As an aside, I really hate it when we get mail addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. HisName LastName." I am NOT him, I am not a part of him, I am not his posession. I have my own first name, thank you very much. I was perfectly happy to take my husband's last name, but I refuse to be addressed by his first as well.

It's also going to be cool when we are "Dr. and Dr." or "Drs." 🙂

I feel you... Mr. and Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName seems like such a loss of identity for the female. She was an individual before she married him. And she is still and individual now. And as an individual, she has her own name

 

[Miss Alyssa]

For me, I think it will depend on when I get married. If I get married before I become a doctor, I'd consider taking his last name. If I get married after I become a doctor, especially if I have an established practice, I'd find it neceassary to keep my last name. So for me, only time will tell!

 

[Miss Alyssa]

I don't have any real stake on what random women do, but this one always cracks me up. Your last name is your last name because it was your father's name, right? Or if your family was incredibly progressive, then because it was your grandfather's name. Either way, at some point in the recent past your last name came from a patriarchal progression, unless you're from a unique background or ethnic group. So being labeled with your father's name is ok, because you grew up accustomed to it, but following the tradition with a husband's name is undesirable?

I'm not really trying to start an argument. I'm all for you doing what you want, I'm just a sucker for tradition and a male, so the whole issue just doesn't resonate with me.

NOTE: I posted before reading some of the more heated stuff that went on before my post. Please don't take my post as saying I support or identify with any other posters.

What do you do if your lastname is a slave name that your ancestors were forced to take?

Or what if your parents had the same last name before they got married, who took whose name?

(I just wanted to add more to the discussion)

 

[pillowhead]

I don't have any real stake on what random women do, but this one always cracks me up. Your last name is your last name because it was your father's name, right? Or if your family was incredibly progressive, then because it was your grandfather's name. Either way, at some point in the recent past your last name came from a patriarchal progression, unless you're from a unique background or ethnic group. So being labeled with your father's name is ok, because you grew up accustomed to it, but following the tradition with a husband's name is undesirable?

I'm not really trying to start an argument. I'm all for you doing what you want, I'm just a sucker for tradition and a male, so the whole issue just doesn't resonate with me.

NOTE: I posted before reading some of the more heated stuff that went on before my post. Please don't take my post as saying I support or identify with any other posters.

As someone who married six months ago and willingly took her husband's name with no qualms, I just want to say that it really isn't that easy to just change your name. Besides the legal hassle of changing your name on everything (which is a such a pain...even AMA wanted a copy of my marriage certificate...I just booked a plane ticket and realized I won't get frequent flier miles because I haven't changed the name on my account and they want my marraige certificate...my health insurance company sent me a renewal insurance card with the wrong name AFTER I sent them my marriage certificate...all of this has occurred in the past WEEK and I changed my name six MONTHS ago), it's quite an emotional experience. It's really really odd, especially if your name really means something. For example, I had a short Persian Jewish name and now I have a long German name. I mean, I'm not German, even remotely!!! So please just imagine what it would be like for you to change your name...I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm just trying to make it resonate for you as to what it's like. It's hard even for those of us who had no reservations about doing so. Imagine every time signing your name or giving your name to someone or filling it out on a form and just completely switching it from something you've been used to for 20-25 years.

 

[tigress]

For me, I think it will depend on when I get married. If I get married before I become a doctor, I'd consider taking his last name. If I get married after I become a doctor, especially if I have an established practice, I'd find it neceassary to keep my last name. So for me, only time will tell!

It's funny. My doctor got re-married a bit less than a year ago and changed her name. She was in an established practice and everything. It took me the longest time to remember her new name, which was sort of difficult when I was trying to tell somebody who my doctor was! I actually liked her old name better, too. But I also think it's cool that she changed her name. She's a strong professional woman, but she still liked the tradition of taking her husband's name. The only issue was the confusion it caused. In her place I might have kept my old name. Unless perhaps it was associated with an unhappy first marriage, or something of the sort.

 

[blonderedhead]

To the women in this thread....

Women have taken the man's name throughout the history of mankind. The word of God also says, "In the name of the Father..."

Why the all of a sudden change in the last 30 years?

Why bring God into this?

 

[notdeadyet]

Good on you, Prowler. I respect folks that ask othes to site their sources when they pull something out like saying there is scripture in the Old Testament talking about the beating of wives.

Wow, I was HORRIBLE mistaken, and don't know where I got that info from

Don't feel horrible, Miss Alyssa, and certainly don't apologize. You're right, there are passages in the Old Testament that talk about the besting of wives.

I don't know of many off hand, but I know there's one in Deuteronomy 22 that talks about the stoning of the wife when she couldn't prove her virginity. The actual line was "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

PROWLER- You can find the link in any of the bible engines, but I know one's at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 22 &version=31.

Not bible bashing, just pointing out that tossing out scripture to back your claim is no evidence that your claim is "Christian" because you can further just about anything with the bible out of context.

And with that, I'll get off the religion bus. Not my trip.

although I could have sworn there were specifications as to the size of rod you can beat your wife with... did I mix that up with the "rule of thumb"?

Actually, that one's a myth:
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mythsofwomenshistory/a/rule_of_thumb.htm
I believed it too, before I looked it up. Live and learn...

 

[lorelei]

I don't have any real stake on what random women do, but this one always cracks me up. Your last name is your last name because it was your father's name, right? Or if your family was incredibly progressive, then because it was your grandfather's name. Either way, at some point in the recent past your last name came from a patriarchal progression, unless you're from a unique background or ethnic group. So being labeled with your father's name is ok, because you grew up accustomed to it, but following the tradition with a husband's name is undesirable?

I'm not really trying to start an argument. I'm all for you doing what you want, I'm just a sucker for tradition and a male, so the whole issue just doesn't resonate with me.

NOTE: I posted before reading some of the more heated stuff that went on before my post. Please don't take my post as saying I support or identify with any other posters.

The way I see it, my last name is MY name. My parents chose to give it to me, and while they may have chosen so for patriarchal reasons that I disagree with, that doesn't really matter - I respect their decision. Whether I had my dad's name, my mom's name, a hyphenated name, or a made-up one, it wouldn't make a difference; it would be MINE because I grew up with it. (I'd consider changing it if it were completely terrible, though.)

I never expected to take my husband's name, so my last name is just as much a part of me as my first name is. Imagine how you'd feel if someone demanded that you change your first name. You might agree, depending on how you felt about them, but you'd probably have at least a little bit of shock, thinking "that's my name! who are you to tell me to change?"

And that's how I feel about being asked to change my last name.

It's not so much whose name someone gets, but the idea that it's OK to expect women - but not men - to change their names midstream.

 

[MoosePilot]

The way I see it, my last name is MY name. My parents chose to give it to me, and while they may have chosen so for patriarchal reasons that I disagree with, that doesn't really matter - I respect their decision. Whether I had my dad's name, my mom's name, a hyphenated name, or a made-up one, it wouldn't make a difference; it would be MINE because I grew up with it. (I'd consider changing it if it were completely terrible, though.)

I never expected to take my husband's name, so my last name is just as much a part of me as my first name is. Imagine how you'd feel if someone demanded that you change your first name. You might agree, depending on how you felt about them, but you'd probably have at least a little bit of shock, thinking "that's my name! who are you to tell me to change?"

And that's how I feel about being asked to change my last name.

It's not so much whose name someone gets, but the idea that it's OK to expect women - but not men - to change their names midstream.

You're used to the last name that a man (your father) gave you, you're not used to the name that another man (your husband) would traditionally give you. That is the difference, right?

If it's not ok to expect women to change their names, then it's not ok to expect men to be legally required to sign up for selective service, be the only ones legally allowed to serve in direct combat (although modern war blurs that line and I have every respect for the servicewomen who are in effect on the front lines), open doors, pay for dinner, ask women out by default, work outside the home, defend his wife in the event of an altercation - think of all the gender differences that are traditionally established. Unless you're for completely starting with a blank slate, then how are you consistent?

 

[MoosePilot]

As someone who married six months ago and willingly took her husband's name with no qualms, I just want to say that it really isn't that easy to just change your name. Besides the legal hassle of changing your name on everything (which is a such a pain...even AMA wanted a copy of my marriage certificate...I just booked a plane ticket and realized I won't get frequent flier miles because I haven't changed the name on my account and they want my marraige certificate...my health insurance company sent me a renewal insurance card with the wrong name AFTER I sent them my marriage certificate...all of this has occurred in the past WEEK and I changed my name six MONTHS ago), it's quite an emotional experience. It's really really odd, especially if your name really means something. For example, I had a short Persian Jewish name and now I have a long German name. I mean, I'm not German, even remotely!!! So please just imagine what it would be like for you to change your name...I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm just trying to make it resonate for you as to what it's like. It's hard even for those of us who had no reservations about doing so. Imagine every time signing your name or giving your name to someone or filling it out on a form and just completely switching it from something you've been used to for 20-25 years.

The difficulty of legally changing your name is significant. I do sympathize with that.

As far as attachment to the nationality of a name or to my personal first name, I don't understand that either. Who I am is such a complex issue and not embodied in a label or name, that I could care less. If I had a good reason to change my name, first or last, I would. I actually like my last name better than my first or middle. First and middle names tend to be so darn generic, how could I feel attached to a label that every Tom, Dick or Harry also goes by (at least if my name is Tom, Dick, or Harry).

 

[tigress]

As a Jew, I'm supposedly one of the "people of the Book", right? I can assure you there is no foundation for wife beating in the "Old Testament." Yes, there are some strange things about stoning people, and adulterous women undergoing a test that could result in death, but at no time in Jewish history has the religion condoned wife beating. Of course there were plenty of times in which the religion seemed misogynistic, but even then a husband was taught to treat his wife extremely well. There are even rules to insure the sexual satisfaction of women!

 

[crys20]

My gosh I can't believe this thread turned into this...All I wanted to know was
the logistics of being Crystal MaidenName MarriedName, but Dr. MaidenName and Mrs. MarriedName...Can anyone comment on that for me? 🙂

It is SO not because I'm at ALL feminist...I would say I'm the most old-fashioned girl out there but after reading some of the posts I'll refrain from saying that! It's simply because I don't really like my SO's last name that much 🙂 Plus no one in his family has his last name so the name doesn't really tie me to his family at all or something like that...LIke w/ a previous bf he had this huge amazing family I would have been proud to have the name of....And plus the SO will be a doc too, so that makes it confusing...

 

[freaker]

I'm just going to tell some of you girls that there are a lot of guys who are going to have issues with you not taking their last names, me included.

Marriage is very much a case of two becoming one, and therein lies the significance of taking one name for the two.

To put it simply, if a girl expects to keep her own name (and BTW, I'm going to take her last name in this case, whether she likes it or not), she better be getting down on her knees and putting the diamond on my finger (and I expect nothing short of 2 carats!--wait, I have bigger hands; better make it 3.) 😀 Oh, and we all know that the proposer doesn't get a diamond, either. 😉

 

[lorelei]

You're used to the last name that a man (your father) gave you, you're not used to the name that another man (your husband) would traditionally give you. That is the difference, right?

If it's not ok to expect women to change their names, then it's not ok to expect men to be legally required to sign up for selective service, be the only ones legally allowed to serve in direct combat (although modern war blurs that line and I have every respect for the servicewomen who are in effect on the front lines), open doors, pay for dinner, ask women out by default, work outside the home, defend his wife in the event of an altercation - think of all the gender differences that are traditionally established. Unless you're for completely starting with a blank slate, then how are you consistent?

Um, I think that women should be required to sign up for selective service and should be allowed to serve in direct combat. (In fact, I'm pretty offended that this isn't the case, and were the draft reinstated I would very likely feel honor-bound to volunteer.) Whoever gets to the door first should open it, and couples should take turns paying. It doesn't matter who asks for dates. Both men and women should be equally expected to support themselves and their families, though if individual families choose to have one person stay home that's their business. I can't say I've ever thought about the altercation idea before, but whoever has the ability should defend their partner (or call the cops).

(Now, I think that individual couples may choose to go along with traditions - in my relationship, we find it fun to go out on fancy dates where he opens the doors and pays, and I dress up. But then I always pay on the following date. Whatever works for people, really.)

I dunno, maybe I'm the kind of "feminist" that Hakashi was complaining about, but I do think I'm at least consistent.

 

[pillowhead]

The difficulty of legally changing your name is significant. I do sympathize with that.

As far as attachment to the nationality of a name or to my personal first name, I don't understand that either. Who I am is such a complex issue and not embodied in a label or name, that I could care less. If I had a good reason to change my name, first or last, I would. I actually like my last name better than my first or middle. First and middle names tend to be so darn generic, how could I feel attached to a label that every Tom, Dick or Harry also goes by (at least if my name is Tom, Dick, or Harry).

I'm guessing that you are a native born american rather than a foreign born one because I think many immigrants feel strongly attached to and proud of their names which identify their native countries. For many immigrants, our names are NOT generic but rather identify very specifically where are we from. As far as my maiden name goes, my family was the only one in the entire state with that name. My married name takes up columns in the phone book.

If you don't feel attached to your name, that's absolutely fine. If you think your name is generic and don't really care about, well that's OK. I don't particularly care what others do with their nams. But what is not fine is for you to expect others to feel the same you do about their own names. Of course one's identity is a complex issue and cannot be simplified into a single name or nationality, but for many people, especially immigrants, it is a significant part of our idenitity.

 

[Hakashi]

To revert to a church state as this troll clearly wants, or to keep swinging the pendulum back to having the Religious Right ruling women's bodies and people's right to marriage, is simply wrong and against the moral fiber of this country.

You are incorrect.

To continue to separate the church from the government is to change the morals and beliefs this country was built upon. Last time I checked, we are one nation UNDER GOD.

Furthermore, you are incorrect in stating the Bible is a fictional text. The Bible is the word of God. Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross, even for blasphemers such as you, so you may walk with him in paradise. Period.

 

[pillowhead]

Marriage is very much a case of two becoming one, and therein lies the significance of taking one name for the two.

I think this is a very meaningful statement. If marriage is about two becoming one, then logically, the two names should be combined to become a new name. A wife changing her name to her husband's name while he keeps his original name doesn't seem to be two becoming one so much as it is her becoming him.

Which reminds of an awful Spice Girls song...."when two become one"

 

[pillowhead]

You are incorrect.

To continue to separate the church from the government is to change the morals and beliefs this country was built upon. Last time I checked, we are one nation UNDER GOD.

Furthermore, you are incorrect in stating the Bible is a fictional text. The Bible is the word of God. Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross, even for blasphemers such as you, so you may walk with him in paradise. Period.

actually, we weren't one nation UNDER GOD until 1954 when that phrase was added to the pledge of alleigance in the McCarthy era.

do your homework.

 

[freaker]

I think this is a very meaningful statement. If marriage is about two becoming one, then logically, the two names should be combined to become a new name. A wife changing her name to her husband's name while he keeps his original name doesn't seem to be two becoming one so much as it is her becoming him.

Which reminds of an awful Spice Girls song...."when two become one"

So are you going to ask that your husband never propose to you? Because when he asks you marry him, he's asking you to become a part of his family. And his family shares a last name. I wouldn't argue that he's the one owning you; rather, you're being offered a seat at the table of his entire family, to stand as an equal.

I realize that in parts of Latin America it is common to combine names. In some ways, I like the idea; in others, not. I definitely prefer it to having two people with separate names. That just rubs me completely wrong.

Still, can you imagine trying to track one's family through time under the system you proposed, though? Wow!

 

[freaker]

actually, we weren't one nation UNDER GOD until 1954 when that phrase was added to the pledge of alleigance in the McCarthy era.

do your homework.

And there was no "separation of church and state" until 1947. And evidently, "In God we Trust" did not violate this principle some 7 years later. I don't know if you want this guy doing his homework. 😀 😉

 

[bluepanda]

Some cultures don't even use last names. How would you feel about doing away with them completely? Would there being any serious functional problems with being called doctor first name instead of doctor last name?

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Anyway, as far as the name change goes... I know a female doctor who married a complete loser. She's a cardiologist and he literally doesn't do anything with his life at all. I shook my head in embarrassment when I heard she took his name. I know there's some kind of deep-rooted thing going on with some women to have their identities absorbed by their mates but come ON. It is even more aggrieving when a doctor does this, since a) her name is a much bigger part of her professional life than for the typical person and b) she had the drive and the independence to become a doctor in the first place... 🙁

As for myself, I expect my wife to be my equal, and if she isn't I would not be able to respect her. Hell, I'd rather take her name than the other way around, or put another way, I'd want a woman strong enough to WANT me to take her name.

If you all want to keep your name, then do it. The only people you will scare off are the guys you would not want to be with in the long run anyway.

 

[pillowhead]

So are you going to ask that your husband never propose to you? Because when he asks you marry him, he's asking you to become a part of his family. And his family shares a last name. I wouldn't argue that he's the one owning you; rather, you're being offered a seat at the table of his entire family, to stand as an equal.

I realize that in parts of Latin America it is common to combine names. In some ways, I like the idea; in others, not. I definitely prefer it to having two people with separate names. That just rubs me completely wrong.

Still, can you imagine trying to track one's family through time under the system you proposed, though? Wow!

well, my husband already proposed to me and I've already taken his last name thank you very much. As someone who has gone through the name change experience, I can definitely understand why some people don't want to do it. I like your analogy of being offered a seat at the table, and quite frankly, that's how I see it and didn't have problem taking his name. But that said, I was young when I got married and I think it's a very personal decision. I wholeheartedly support those who do not wish to do so and will not tell other to do what I did just because it's the tradition.

as far as tracking one's family through time, that's an interesting point because my children and female grandchildren will have a very difficult time tracking my family through the ages when they don't know or identify with my maiden name. let's face it, when you see one of those name places in the mall or something that shows your family name's crest, etc, do you ever look at your mother's maiden name or your grandmother's maiden name? do you even know your grandmother's maiden name? talk about being difficult to track one's family.

 

[Hakashi]

Why bring God into this?

Because America is one nation under God and always will be.

Don't like it? Canada is open for you to leave.

 

[blonderedhead]

So are you going to ask that your husband never propose to you? Because when he asks you marry him, he's asking you to become a part of his family. And his family shares a last name. I wouldn't argue that he's the one owning you; rather, you're being offered a seat at the table of his entire family, to stand as an equal.

I realize that in parts of Latin America it is common to combine names. In some ways, I like the idea; in others, not. I definitely prefer it to having two people with separate names. That just rubs me completely wrong.

Still, can you imagine trying to track one's family through time under the system you proposed, though? Wow!

Why can't a woman ask a man to get married? I have 2 friends who did that with their boyfriends. Women don't have to wait around to get proposed to; they can also initiate the proposal. (I guess your idea of a proposal is always a man on his knees) It's also a woman's choice to decide to marry someone and if the man wants to marry her, then he agrees. And NO the woman is not being offered a seat at the man's family table, both the man and woman are joining each others families. The man joining the woman's and the woman's joining the man's. How did it become so one-sided?

 

[Hakashi]

If you all want to keep your name, then do it. The only people you will scare off are the guys you would not want to be with in the long run anyway.

If by guys you don't want to be with, you mean men who don't believe in premarital sex, support their children/wife and provide for them as best as possible, then you are not a man. You are still a boy.

 

[pillowhead]

Because America is one nation under God and always will be.

Don't like it? Canada is open for you to leave.

As I pointed out before (or is it more convenient for you to ignore?), under God was not added to the pledge until 1954 largely for political reasons (anti-communism) not religious reasons. Our founding fathers were largely deists not fundamentalist Christians.

 

[pillowhead]

If by guys you don't want to be with, you mean men who don't believe in premarital sex, support their children/wife and provide for them as best as possible, then you are not a man. You are still a boy.

what's the man/boy obsession? Are into NAMBLA or something that?

 

[Hakashi]

good luck finding a girl with half a brain thats willing to put up with you, or is mommy and daddy shipping one over? 🙄

Yes, the keyworld in your quotation is girl, not woman. I will not marry a girl. I will marry a woman. A woman realizes her first responsibility is to her children and husband. Her career is second to that.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I'm pretty sure Hakashi is just a troll account... nobody in reality is THAT twisted, are they? well, some members of the Taliban maybe...

 

[Hakashi]

what's the man/boy obsession? Are into NAMBLA or something that?

A man is someone who takes responsibility for his actions and follows the word of God.

A boy is someone who goes around having premarital sex, doesn't follow the word of God, going on welfare and expecting the government to pay for them to live.

 

[tigress]

I proposed to my husband. Then I took his name.

(combining our names would have been bad...how does "franklas" sound?? frankless...lol)

 

[jeg5q]

If by guys you don't want to be with, you mean men who don't believe in premarital sex, support their children/wife and provide for them as best as possible, then you are not a man. You are still a boy.

I have to be honest. I have been around this forum for over a year and I have never read anything as ignorant as what this character is spouting. I respect everyone's opinion. If Hakashi wants a women to wait on him, while he is off making millions, after curing the world of cancer so be it. Just don't spew such disdain for others of a different opinion. Some of us "boys" would appreciate finding a wife who is an equal partner in our marriage. Who brings as much to the table intellectually as we do. But again to each his own. Good luck finding a woman to "take care of" Hakashi. 🙂

 

[Hakashi]

As an aside, I really hate it when we get mail addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. HisName LastName." I am NOT him, I am not a part of him, I am not his posession. I have my own first name, thank you very much.

Female chauvenist?

 

[ForbiddenComma]

BTW, in my earlier post I was not trying to disrespect women who choose to take their partner's names. I just despair when some feel required to do it, even when she's obviously the breadwinner and her husband is a complete tool.

 

[tigress]

Female chauvenist?

Oh yes, I'm a female chauvenist, sure. I'm a nice religious girl, I got married and took my husband's name (because I wanted to), I plan to have 3+ children. I wear long sleeves, high necklines, and skirts out of modesty. I sit in the women's section in synagogue.

And I am an individual with my own first name. I am a liberal. My husband does most of the cooking 😛 (because he wants to). I'm going to be a damn good doctor some day.

It's impossible to label people. Don't try.

 

[criminallyinane]

I don't have any real stake on what random women do, but this one always cracks me up. Your last name is your last name because it was your father's name, right? Or if your family was incredibly progressive, then because it was your grandfather's name. Either way, at some point in the recent past your last name came from a patriarchal progression, unless you're from a unique background or ethnic group. So being labeled with your father's name is ok, because you grew up accustomed to it, but following the tradition with a husband's name is undesirable?

My parents, who gave me life, named me as they saw fit. My mother took my father's name, and that was HER choice. But that doesn't change the fact that my name is MY NAME and it doesn't matter to me if it came from my father or mother. People don't understand that this isn't a man-hating sentiment, it is the fact that I don't think my husband's name should suddenly become my own just because we get married. I do think it would be nice to share a name, but in that case, he will have to take my name and his name (mine as a middle, his as a last), and I will do the same, and our kids will do the same.

I'm not really trying to start an argument. I'm all for you doing what you want, I'm just a sucker for tradition and a male, so the whole issue just doesn't resonate with me.

I'm not sure that you were looking for a little debate, but that's fine with me. I just think that males want this tradition to be kept up because it favors them, keeps them in their comfort zone, and they don't have to worry about changing their name or having a hyphenated name, etc. They just want things to be "easy" or as they've always been. But as a woman, I think it is my responsibility to question this tradition and look for alternatives that are more suitable to my needs.

 

[criminallyinane]

You're used to the last name that a man (your father) gave you, you're not used to the name that another man (your husband) would traditionally give you. That is the difference, right?

My father AND mother gave me my name. They also gave me LIFE and with it, they got the naming privileges. Why does my husband have a right to "give" me a name or change my name? HE didn't give me life.

If it's not ok to expect women to change their names, then it's not ok to expect men to be legally required to sign up for selective service, be the only ones legally allowed to serve in direct combat (although modern war blurs that line and I have every respect for the servicewomen who are in effect on the front lines), open doors, pay for dinner, ask women out by default, work outside the home, defend his wife in the event of an altercation - think of all the gender differences that are traditionally established. Unless you're for completely starting with a blank slate, then how are you consistent?

Actually, I have taken women's studies courses that deal with these very issues, and I personally don't let/ask men to open doors for me. I don't let them pay for dinner unless we do it on a rotating schedule. If I was in physical danger and couldn't defend myself, of course my husband would step in. I would do the same for him. Just because men are physically stronger, though, doesn't mean that I feel I need "protection" all the time. I have no control over army policy (and I am wholly anti-military anyway,) but I do have control over my own life, and I try to make things as equitable as possible. I find more often it's my boyfriend who is upset when I scurry to open the door for him, because he *wants* to do those nice things for me, but I also *want* to do those nice things for him, and I don't think that just because I am a woman, I am suddenly incapable of opening those big heavy doors

No hypocrisy here. And besides, do you think that if a woman DOES let a man open doors for her or pay for dinner, that means she has to give away her name as payment? Silly.

 

[criminallyinane]

The difficulty of legally changing your name is significant. I do sympathize with that.

As far as attachment to the nationality of a name or to my personal first name, I don't understand that either. Who I am is such a complex issue and not embodied in a label or name, that I could care less. If I had a good reason to change my name, first or last, I would.

Good! Then change YOUR name when you get married.

 

[wends]

Yes, the keyworld in your quotation is girl, not woman. I will not marry a girl. I will marry a woman. A woman realizes her first responsibility is to her children and husband. Her career is second to that.

no woman is going to serve you, get over it, unless you want a mail order bride from the homeland that you're parents bought. a good woman will realize she is worth more than a pawn of her husband and will stay away from you!

 

[criminallyinane]

I'm just going to tell some of you girls that there are a lot of guys who are going to have issues with you not taking their last names, me included.

But two people who disagree about something like this probably wouldn't get along well enough to consider marriage anyway. So thanks for the warning, but I'm not worried about this problem with the guys I want to date.

Marriage is very much a case of two becoming one, and therein lies the significance of taking one name for the two.

Sure, but why only YOUR name? Because you have a penis? I would like a good answer for this, please.

To put it simply, if a girl expects to keep her own name (and BTW, I'm going to take her last name in this case, whether she likes it or not), she better be getting down on her knees and putting the diamond on my finger (and I expect nothing short of 2 carats!--wait, I have bigger hands; better make it 3.) 😀 Oh, and we all know that the proposer doesn't get a diamond, either. 😉

It seems like you focus on superficial gender roles very much. I hope that when you are ready to get married you find someone with whom none of this crap matters because you love her so much 🙂

 

[criminallyinane]

So are you going to ask that your husband never propose to you? Because when he asks you marry him, he's asking you to become a part of his family. And his family shares a last name. I wouldn't argue that he's the one owning you; rather, you're being offered a seat at the table of his entire family, to stand as an equal.

Nah, when my boyfriend proposes to me (or when I propose to him), he'll be asking me to become his partner, and to start a new family together. it doesn't mean that I'm suddenly part of his family - it means we're part of each other's families, with him joining my family as much as I'll be joining his.

 

[freaker]

do you ever look at your mother's maiden name or your grandmother's maiden name? do you even know your grandmother's maiden name? talk about being difficult to track one's family.

Sure, I know my Grandmother's maiden name. And my great grandmother's maiden name. And yes, I have looked at my mother's maiden name when you're dealing with crests. She's the only German blood in my immediate family.

My family has always just taken the maiden name and made it the middle name, taking on the husband's last name for her own. Is this not common practice? As for tracking my family through time, my family has a Family Bible that dates back to the 1600s. Each generation has had someone to fill in the gaps when it's been possible. I've actually traced my ancestry back into the 1300s, obviously with some gaps. Kind of cool to know you've had some mercenaries in your background, huh?

I guess my family is just one for traditions. We sing some of the same songs on holidays that date back to before this country even existed. No one has ever had a divorce in the immediate family. Everyone has taken on the husband's last name. I don't like changing cultural traditions, and I guess my wife is evidently going to be someone who doesn't, either.

 

[mastamark]

Many females are spouting about how "my name is my name and I like it". Well many of you women(some not all) have your fathers last names. Had youre moms felt the way you feel you would have her name. I guess you would keep that name too huh? Or should you make up your own? Then it would truly be "Your Name."

 

[NPursuit]

But two people who disagree about something like this probably wouldn't get along well enough to consider marriage anyway. So thanks for the warning, but I'm not worried about this problem with the guys I want to date.

If you'll let me jump in here, my sentiments exactly.

Sure, but why only YOUR name? Because you have a penis? I would like a good answer for this, please.

Because that's the way it's been done for centuries. Why change a tradition that makes identification of family easy through time? Why do something that distinguishes you from other members of your family? Why even appear to be freakish in some ridiculous attempt at a powergrab? (which is what it is). Are you claiming you're better and more sensitive than those who came before you, somehow more understanding? Because that's a pretty shallow concept of sensitivity. You can argue that my adherence to cultural traditions is shallow if you want, but I do think there is very much a meaning behind each act, one that holds its own duties, honor, and expectations (I know, concepts all but vanquished from most arenas of society today).

It seems like you focus on superficial gender roles very much. I hope that when you are ready to get married you find someone with whom none of this crap matters because you love her so much 🙂

It appears I (and several other people on this thread) put a greater emphasis on tradition and family in my life than you. I would like to think of my name as a gift bestowed on the one woman I will hold dearest and above all others for as long as I shall live. I would hope that when I find the woman I marry, her hangups over her last name won't matter so much that she takes takes it as an insult and an inconvenience to bear my name, but does so with honor.

And it will, afterall, be her hangup. It's common knowledge that this is the way things have been done for centuries. The very fact that you would want to change this suggests you somehow believe you're better/different than those who came before you.

Why?

And don't give me this garbage about suffrage or women in the workforce. Those are very much issues of rights. This is one of tradition. It is also one of uprooting a tradition for nothing more than selfish motives. It is either you saying that you are better than the traditions of those who came before you or you making yourself into a victim. Take your pick.

 

[criminallyinane]

Many females are spouting about how "my name is my name and I like it". Well many of you women(some not all) have your fathers last names. Had youre moms felt the way you feel you would have her name. I guess you would keep that name too huh? Or should you make up your own? Then it would truly be "Your Name."

If my parents had named me Firstname MomsLast-DadsLast (hyphenated), it would still be my name.

If they had named me a hybrid last name, it would still be my name.

If they had given me my mother's maiden name, it would still be my name.

Just because my mother chose to take my father's name doesn't mean I am bound to do the same. I didn't ask for my father's last name, but it was given to me and is now mine as well. Having my dad's last name doesn't mean that I give up the right to keep my own name. I mean, really now. Come on. I had no part in my naming process, but that doesn't mean that my name hasn't become a part of me that I hold dear.

You can't fault a newborn for not standing up and saying, "mom, give me your name too!" Duh. 🙄