Key bill to follow - H.R. 451

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bucks2010

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I recently saw that a bill that is relevant to all of us got introduced to the US House the other day. Instead of summarizing, I'll let all of you read for yourselves:

http://sullivan.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=221609

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/news/news/truth-in-advertising-survey.shtml

Personally, I think it'd be really nice if this didn't get tangled up in committee and got passed. If we get enough support, maybe we can stage an SDN write-your-legislator campaign if it does reach a full vote in the House.

I also found a bill-tracker site for Congress:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-451
 
I recently saw that a bill that is relevant to all of us got introduced to the US House the other day. Instead of summarizing, I'll let all of you read for yourselves:

http://sullivan.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=221609

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/news/news/truth-in-advertising-survey.shtml

Personally, I think it'd be really nice if this didn't get tangled up in committee and got passed. If we get enough support, maybe we can stage an SDN write-your-legislator campaign if it does reach a full vote in the House.

I also found a bill-tracker site for Congress:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-451
👍

Yup, I've been following this with interest. Good stuff! I'd be completely interested in an SDN write-your-legislator type of thing. We've ('we' as in a bunch of the physicians/med students/premeds who browse the Gen. Residency forums, not the entirety of the SDN populace) done stuff like that before with the AMA, University of South Florida, etc, when NPs/DNPs have made ridiculous statements.
 
This isn't the first time this bill has been introduced in some form. Expect the ANA to kill it like usual.
 
This isn't the first time this bill has been introduced in some form. Expect the ANA to kill it like usual.
I didn't know that.

I hope that AMA survey helps out this time. It seems like several other physician groups are on-board too (not sure if this was the case in the past when NPs/DNPs didn't seem to be as vocal as they are now).
 
I didn't know that.

I hope that AMA survey helps out this time. It seems like several other physician groups are on-board too (not sure if this was the case in the past when NPs/DNPs didn't seem to be as vocal as they are now).

I would say that its not likely to get out of committee even with the republicans in control. I don't think its filibusterer material, but who knows what the ANA will do. If it made it to the senate the pressure would most certainly go up and the vote would go along party lines (best case). I promise you Obama would veto this because he hates doctors. So hype it up if you like but its probably time to move on with life.
 
Just for fun we should track this one. Still in committee with nearly 100 other bills. Not looking good.

111th's HR 5295 died here as well, and it actually had cosponsors.
 
I would say that its not likely to get out of committee even with the republicans in control. I don't think its filibusterer material, but who knows what the ANA will do. If it made it to the senate the pressure would most certainly go up and the vote would go along party lines (best case). I promise you Obama would veto this because he hates doctors. So hype it up if you like but its probably time to move on with life.

I'd say it's not likely to get out of committee because of the Republicans in control.

And really?! Obama hates doctors? Get a friggin' grip, man.
 
I'd say it's not likely to get out of committee because of the Republicans in control.

And really?! Obama hates doctors? Get a friggin' grip, man.

Yes Obama really loves us as he told a bunch of nurses that a surgeon gets reimbursed 50k for a foot amputation. We are priority #1 for him. (You have to remember there are at least 3 (probably 4 or 5 if you lump them all together) nurses to every doctor in the united states, so I cant really blame him)

But the sad fact is no politician cares about doctors. Why should they? I'm not aware that we lobby all that extensively. Our largest? physician group by no means at all represents the majority of physicians and they hardly represent their own members (AMA), I'm pretty convinced they just look out for themselves (the leadership that is.)

So in what counts the most (aside from money) there are how many doctors in the us? 800kish?

Why would any politician give two ****s about us as a group in the slightest, they don't.
 
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I didn't know that.

I hope that AMA survey helps out this time. It seems like several other physician groups are on-board too (not sure if this was the case in the past when NPs/DNPs didn't seem to be as vocal as they are now).

This is the 3rd time that I'm aware of where this bill has been introduced, never makes it far.

Don't get your hopes up.
 
I promise you Obama would veto this because he hates doctors. So hype it up if you like but its probably time to move on with life.

Yup, only a teabagger and sarah-palinphile would say something like that! I thought medical school is a type of higher education. NO????
 
But the sad fact is no politician cares about doctors. Why should they?

Rush-O, time to pop up them pills!! You are full of contradiction...At first, you said Obama, now you're saying that no politician cares about doctors...See, i stop reading your nonsense right there!!!
 
Rush-O, time to pop up them pills!! You are full of contradiction...At first, you said Obama, now you're saying that no politician cares about doctors...See, i stop reading your nonsense right there!!!


<sarcasm> I was actually so disturbed about the level of blind partisan hackery herein referred to as ******ness, that I had to respond. Now this was not out of worry about your own wellbeing but the wellbeing of the people around you. I was so concerned that the sheer magnitude of your ******ness would collapse upon itself forming a singularity and not only consume you (inconsequential) but other around you. I must worry about their safety. </sarcasm>

Now, dial up the reading comprehension a few years and re-read what I said. President Obama is a politician, not the second coming of christ or so you seem to misunderstand. What concerns him is funding his campaign, getting votes, then accomplishing his agenda in such a way that he can secure the first two. He would be a terrible politician (which he is not) if he did deviated from this simple plan because he simply would not be (re)elected.

Now I realized from my first post I was being rather harsh on the president, so I extrapolated a bit in that light to say that in fact all politicians work this way, and he is not unique.

This doesnt matter if you are republican or democrat or otherwise, why would you cater to a smaller group of people who lobby less at the expense of other more powerful groups? This is just bad politics. This is also the reason why we will probably never get malpractice reform, money and the votes that wield that money.

Our only solution is to pick a group whom we can more fully unite and put our money where our mouth is, or else we will continue to be run over.
 
There is a clear bias for nurses and against doctors, for reasons already stated. This video is pretty good evidence of that.

http://vimeo.com/5613909
 
<sarcasm> I was actually so disturbed about the level of blind partisan hackery herein referred to as ******ness, that I had to respond. Now this was not out of worry about your own wellbeing but the wellbeing of the people around you. I was so concerned that the sheer magnitude of your ******ness would collapse upon itself forming a singularity and not only consume you (inconsequential) but other around you. I must worry about their safety. </sarcasm>

Now, dial up the reading comprehension a few years and re-read what I said. President Obama is a politician, not the second coming of christ or so you seem to misunderstand. What concerns him is funding his campaign, getting votes, then accomplishing his agenda in such a way that he can secure the first two. He would be a terrible politician (which he is not) if he did deviated from this simple plan because he simply would not be (re)elected.

Now I realized from my first post I was being rather harsh on the president, so I extrapolated a bit in that light to say that in fact all politicians work this way, and he is not unique.

This doesnt matter if you are republican or democrat or otherwise, why would you cater to a smaller group of people who lobby less at the expense of other more powerful groups? This is just bad politics. This is also the reason why we will probably never get malpractice reform, money and the votes that wield that money.

Our only solution is to pick a group whom we can more fully unite and put our money where our mouth is, or else we will continue to be run over.

Dont have the time to homeschool you, but you would be wise to take a listen and UNDERSTAND this:

lawyers care about lawyers, first and foremost!
politicians care about politicians, first and foremost!
physicians care about physicians, first and foremost!
professionals care about their professions, first and foremost!

However, that does NOT mean all lawyers hate all politicians or all politicians hate all physicians, and vice versa. Indeed, there would be many aspects where politicians may not agree with physicians, just like your mom does not always agree with your dad, and that does not mean your dad does not CARE about your mom. Only i/d/i/o/t/s that listen to Rush Limbaugh 24/7 would believe things like this, i.e., all aspect of ObamaCare is bad! How can all politicians hate or do not care about all physicians??? What proof do you have? Does that make sense to you, Sarah Palin wannabe?? A piece of advice, stop reducing complex things into simplicity!!! The World is not black and white, and certainly "it is not either you are with us or against us." Leave this mentality to Rush and his listeners..

Like I said, i don't have time to home school you, but let me close up with these rhetorical questions: What proof do you have that all politicians hate all physicians? Do they try to close down your medical school? Do they pass laws that prevent med students from obtaining federal loans? Do they try to close down your business?

Anybody who reads your first paragraph would understand that you are projecting! BTW, what medical school do you attend?
 
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I remember this, I also remember wanting to slap the piss out of him at the time.

yeah you didnt know? Doctors really dont do anything. They just walk in say two words for 10 min and then leave in their fancy cars. 😕
 
robu, you're being pretty ignorant here. The claim wasn't that Obama hates every single doctor in the US, but that Obama supports the nursing agenda over the doctors agenda. Obama has also made many negative comments towards doctors throughout his career, and that video posted earlier shows a few of them.
 
Dont have the time to homeschool you, but you would be wise to take a listen and UNDERSTAND this:

lawyers care about lawyers, first and foremost!
politicians care about politicians, first and foremost!
physicians care about physicians, first and foremost!
professionals care about their professions, first and foremost!

However, that does NOT mean all lawyers hate all politicians or all politicians hate all physicians, and vice versa. Indeed, there would be many aspects where politicians may not agree with physicians, just like your mom does not always agree with your dad, and that does not mean your dad does not CARE about your mom. Only i/d/i/o/t/s that listen to Rush Limbaugh 24/7 would believe things like this, i.e., all aspect of ObamaCare is bad! How can all politicians hate or do not care about all physicians??? What proof do you have? Does that make sense to you, Sarah Palin wannabe?? A piece of advice, stop reducing complex things into simplicity!!! The World is not black and white, and certainly "it is not either you are with us or against us." Leave this mentality to Rush and his listeners..

Like I said, i don't have time to home school you, but let me close up with these rhetorical questions: What proof do you have that all politicians hate all physicians? Do they try to close down your medical school? Do they pass laws that prevent med students from obtaining federal loans? Do they try to close down your business?

Anybody who reads your first paragraph would understand that you are projecting! BTW, what medical school do you attend?

Politicians know that doctors are easy targets. Insurance companies funnel money to the politicians, so they wont get hit as hard when cuts need to be made. Old people vote like crazy so benefits arent going to be cut, so the politicians go after the weakest political party-doctors. The general public think we do nothing, so nobody really cares when a piece of legislation cuts payments to doctors etc. and we dont "donate" money to politicians like other specialty groups, so they have no qualms about screwing us over.

Neither dems or repubs will help us unless we get more politically active, but it doesnt help that you have the president going on about how he has a bias for nurses, because the doctor was only there for ten minutes.
 
robu, you're being pretty ignorant here. The claim wasn't that Obama hates every single doctor in the US, but that Obama supports the nursing agenda over the doctors agenda. Obama has also made many negative comments towards doctors throughout his career, and that video posted earlier shows a few of them.

And you, Sir, are being ignorant to nth power. Try me again and i challenge you to reread my statement but do it very slow and you will see that I have no problem with anyone to disagree with Obama or whatever politician for whatever reason (fill in the blank and be my guest), but I do have a problem at least with people who claim to be in medical school to generalize that "Obama hates physicians" or "politicians do not care about physicians."

I was expected a med student to say something to that effect: "Obama policy does not favor physicians and here is why." See, that will be stimulating and might generate debates.

However, I do expect the most ignorant, the Rush Limbaugh listeners, the Palinphile, to say what the aforementioned author was saying.
 
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And you, Sir, are being ignorant to nth power. Try me again and i challenge to reread my statement but do it very slow and you will see that I have no problem with anyone to disagree with Obama or whatever politician for whatever reason (fill in the blank and be my guest), but I do have a problem at least with people who claim to be in medical school to generalize that "Obama hates physicians" or "politicians do not care about physicians."

I was expected a med student to say something to that effect: "Obama policy does not favor physicians and here is why." See, that will be stimulating and might generate debates.

However, I do expect the most ignorant, the Rush Limbaugh listeners, the Palinphile, to say what the aforementioned author was saying.

When people say that "Obama doesn't like physicians" they are basing that statement on what Obama has said about physicians.

Do you disagree that he has made many negative comments about physicians in the past? What conclusion should one draw from these statements?
 
Politicians know that doctors are easy targets. Insurance companies funnel money to the politicians, so they wont get hit as hard when cuts need to be made. Old people vote like crazy so benefits arent going to be cut, so the politicians go after the weakest political party-doctors. The general public think we do nothing, so nobody really cares when a piece of legislation cuts payments to doctors etc. and we dont "donate" money to politicians like other specialty groups, so they have no qualms about screwing us over.

Neither dems or repubs will help us unless we get more politically active, but it doesnt help that you have the president going on about how he has a bias for nurses, because the doctor was only there for ten minutes.

See, this is the kind of statements that I was expected from a med student or any graduate students. You make your point, support it and you do not appeal to sensationalism. Well done and I think I agree with most of what you are saying!

btw, isn't AMA a lobby group that for instance, fought the johnson administration, for introducing the medicare program?
 
When people say that "Obama doesn't like physicians" they are basing that statement on what Obama has said about physicians.

Do you disagree that he has made many negative comments about physicians in the past? What conclusion should one draw from these statements?

What's the alternative to "like"? Dislike/hate/Do not care...And Again, it is appealing to sensationalism!!! You can make your case intelligently by not putting things black and white (see Dr. Ooops's post above for pointers)!!! And that my friend, at this point of your career, i shouldn't be pointed this out to you; it should have learnt a long time ago!!!
 
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What's the alternative to "like"? Dislike/hate/Do not care...And Again, it is appealing to sensationalism!!! You can make your case intelligently by not putting things black and white (see Dr. Ooops's post for pointers)!!! And that my friend, at this point of your career, i shouldn't be pointed this out to you; it should have learned a long time ago!!!

You need to stop arguing semantics. The statement that Obama sympathizes with the nursing agenda more than the doctor's agenda is entirely accurate. The specific degree to which he does so is irrelevant, as the original statement was merely pointing out that he sympathizes with nurses over doctors to a significant extent.

Also, you attack my arguments as sensationalist while making many sensationalist statements yourself (referring to Palin, etc).
 
...Obama sympathizes with the nursing agenda more than the doctor's agenda...

Congratulations! That's a good improvement!!! And NO, i am NOT having a semantic argument with you, but I am telling you, and you should learn, that the way you present your argument can either stimulate/generate or inhibit discussions. By painting things black and white, you don't give me a chance to think as you are already doing the thinking for me, and if I am an Obama supporter, I would not listen to the rest of your argument; I would be turned off. However, the way you write it above can spark my interest to listen more to your argument with an open mind even though I might be the most avid supporter of Obama!
 
Congratulations! That's a good improvement!!! And NO, i am NOT having a semantic argument with you, but I am telling you, and you should learn, that the way you present your argument can either stimulate/generate or inhibit discussions. By painting things black and white, you don't give me a chance to think as you are already doing the thinking for me, and if I am an Obama supporter, I would not listen to the rest of your argument; I would be turned off. However, the way you write it above can spark my interest to listen more to your argument with an open mind even though I might be the most avid supporter of Obama!

I am done with this discussion. Your posts on condescending, irritating, and hypocritical.
 
I am done with this discussion. Your posts on condescending, irritating, and hypocritical.

I give up the dude is hopeless. Obama is just another politician and I don't think he can accept that nor can we force him.
 
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See, this is the kind of statements that I was expected from a med student or any graduate students. You make your point, support it and you do not appeal to sensationalism. Well done and I think I agree with most of what you are saying!

btw, isn't AMA a lobby group that for instance, fought the johnson administration, for introducing the medicare program?

I dont know what you can call the AMA now, but their membership is only 20% of physicians and I believe half of that is med students who probably signed up to get free stuff.

The AMA gets the majority of their money from other sources (not member fees) and as a result function more to keep the people running it in power rather than representing what the majority of doctors want.

The AMA wanted two things for their support of the Healthcare bill obama passed. They got none of the things they asked for. Yet obama got to say that doctors support the bill because the AMA supports the bill (i.e. that the AMA represents the majority of doctors, which is not true but widely believed by the general public).

Part of the key to getting the support of the people is by educating them about our education and the difficulties associated with becoming a physician. People have very little knowledge of the length of training it takes to become a doctor. They dont understand that alot of medicine is a cerebral practice and that taking your blood pressure doesnt mean anything until my training and analysis of those numbers is what youre actually coming to me for. The other is for people to get more politically active, donate to PACs and learn more than just whats in first aid or robbins.
 
Come on everyone relax . . . Everyone knows that only homophobes and rednecks drink tea . . . So move on with life.
 
I dont know what you can call the AMA now, but their membership is only 20% of physicians and I believe half of that is med students who probably signed up to get free stuff.

The AMA gets the majority of their money from other sources (not member fees) and as a result function more to keep the people running it in power rather than representing what the majority of doctors want.

The AMA wanted two things for their support of the Healthcare bill obama passed. They got none of the things they asked for. Yet obama got to say that doctors support the bill because the AMA supports the bill (i.e. that the AMA represents the majority of doctors, which is not true but widely believed by the general public).

Part of the key to getting the support of the people is by educating them about our education and the difficulties associated with becoming a physician. People have very little knowledge of the length of training it takes to become a doctor. They dont understand that alot of medicine is a cerebral practice and that taking your blood pressure doesnt mean anything until my training and analysis of those numbers is what youre actually coming to me for. The other is for people to get more politically active, donate to PACs and learn more than just whats in first aid or robbins.

I am learning a lot from your above post! Wow!!!! I didn't think that AMA is now that toothless since they successfully fought tooth and nail the Johnson Administration when they only introduced Medicare Part A that only covered or paid hospital costs. In concession, Johnson agreed to Medicare Part B which covered or paid both hospitals and physicians. I think you allude to it but I don't think it's the whole story, but let me ask it again: What had happened to AMA? Is there more to the story to describe above? Moreover, can you inform me (or us) what exactly the two things that the AMA was fighting for and didn't have with ObamaCare? Were there any compromise made that you are not aware of?

With respect to "People have very little knowledge of the length of training it takes to become a doctor," I think internet plays a huge part to that. If you you go back in time, it was the opposite. For instance, there were a TV show in the 60's called "Marcus Welby, MD" that popularized the idea that doctors knew everything and during that time people believed whatever doctors were telling them. However, today with the internet, people can go to webmd and diagnose themselves w/o going to the doctor office. Do you agree, like me, that internet is one of the reasons why people have little respect on what it takes to become a physician? By that I mean - It is the mentality that: why do i need to pay Dr. big bucks when I can go to a nurse office and have them confirmed my suspicion for less, information of which I got from webmd??? Could that also explain Obama affinity toward nurses?
 
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Just glancing through the bill...I don't really see anything very useful; It might even make things worse...

It allows individuals to use titles conferred on them by accredited educational institutions (paraphrase). So a DNP has a "doctorate" from a nursing school, so he/she can technically use the title doctor?

Someone please correct me if I'm missing some key piece of info here....
 
Just glancing through the bill...I don't really see anything very useful; It might even make things worse...

It allows individuals to use titles conferred on them by accredited educational institutions (paraphrase). So a DNP has a "doctorate" from a nursing school, so he/she can technically use the title doctor?

Someone please correct me if I'm missing some key piece of info here....

(A) require oral or written disclosure, to the patient or in an advertisement, of the type of license such person holds; and

I think they are going for Doctor of Nurse Practice.

Just like a Doctor of Physical Therapy.

Not just "Doctor".

A physician would then be required to say Doctor of Medicine. Just like a DNP would be required to say they are in fact a nurse.
 
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I am learning a lot from your above post! Wow!!!! I didn't think that AMA is now that toothless since they successfully fought tooth and nail the Johnson Administration when they only introduced Medicare Part A that only covered or paid hospital costs. In concession, Johnson agreed to Medicare Part B which covered or paid both hospitals and physicians. I think you allude to it but I don't think it's the whole story, but let me ask it again: What had happened to AMA? Is there more to the story to describe above? Moreover, can you inform me (or us) what exactly the two things that the AMA was fighting for and didn't have with ObamaCare? Were there any compromise made that you are not aware of?

With respect to "People have very little knowledge of the length of training it takes to become a doctor," I think internet plays a huge part to that. If you you go back in time, it was the opposite. For instance, there were a TV show in the 60's called "Marcus Welby, MD" that popularized the idea that doctors knew everything and during that time people believed whatever doctors were telling them. However, today with the internet, people can go to webmd and diagnose themselves w/o going to the doctor office. Do you agree, like me, that internet is one of the reasons why people have little respect on what it takes to become a physician? By that I mean - It is the mentality that: why do i need to pay Dr. big bucks when I can go to a nurse office and have them confirmed my suspicion for less, information of which I got from webmd??? Could that also explain Obama affinity toward nurses?

As far as medicare goes, doctors were afraid it would be like it is today, so in order to get doctors to accept it the government let them choose their own prices. At some point in the increases in payment outpaced inflation and the government took over setting the pricing with the SGR. The SGR has been predicting payment cuts for the last 10 years or something but they have been postponed for each time. Part of the way for paying for the new healthcare law was supposed to be from those cuts. However the elderly felt that they would be affected by the backlash (i.e. doctors would see even less medicare patients), so nothing has been done about it thus far.

I dont know that there is a real story behind what happened behind the AMA, probably people got complacent and then you had people who just wanted the title or the money and didnt really care. Thus leading to unpopular decisions and the decline of membership.

The AMA getting on board with the bill in exchange for 2 concessions (one being tort reform, I cant remember the other) was the compromise.

Yea I think media plays a huge role in the devaluation of our education. I have heard time and again how horrible WebMD, not just from physicians either. One of my college professors, said he was completely misquoted by them, to the point where it was blatently wrong.

Theres also tv docs, people see greys anatomy and think its all sex and action and then you go for a swim in your money vault.

Obamas affinity for nurses is easy, hes a politician pandering to a strong political group who is also supported by the public. The image of the doc is the underworked, mercedes driving, golf playing, know it all jerk. The nurses image is that of the over worked, caring person whose always there for you. With healthcare reform being such a big deal its no wonder he picked the nurses to stand behind.

People dont know enough to judge good medical so the metrics they use really have nothing to do with the actual quality of care they receive. If you sat in the room with them doing nothing they would think they were getting better medical care than if you were running DDXs for hours, somewhere else.

(A) require oral or written disclosure, to the patient or in an advertisement, of the type of license such person holds; and

I think they are going for Doctor of Nurse Practice.

Just like a Doctor of Physical Therapy.

Not just "Doctor".

A physician would then be required to say Doctor of Medicine. Just like a DNP would be required to say they are in fact a nurse.

The nursing associations are strongly against regulations where such formal identification would be required.
 
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