Legitimate, Free, SDN matriculant data spreadsheet

[mmmmd]

First of all, this is awesome, thanks to all those who contributed!!!

Secondly, , regarding MSAR data... Why not calculate the "what are my chances" portion of this form using these trusted numbers and copy/paste the results of that calculation into our collaborative form? We're not publishing any copywrited data, and I don't think anyone other than "Lizzy" has intellectual property rights to the LizzyM Score algorithm (yet...). I would do this... but I don't have an MSAR account (yet...).

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[syoung]

$15 for one I think. Maybe $20

 

[JESSFALLING]

Thanks for this great spreadsheet!!! It's pretty awesome.

One quick thought: Maybe it's just nit picking, but I think that the GPA used to determine the LizzyM score should be the average of one's science and cumulative GPAs. For example, someone with a 3.7 cGPA and a 3.2 sGPA would be a good candidate for this approach. What do you guys think?

 

[MSAR Rep]

First of all, this is awesome, thanks to all those who contributed!!!

Secondly, , regarding MSAR data... Why not calculate the "what are my chances" portion of this form using these trusted numbers and copy/paste the results of that calculation into our collaborative form? We're not publishing any copywrited data, and I don't think anyone other than "Lizzy" has intellectual property rights to the LizzyM Score algorithm (yet...). I would do this... but I don't have an MSAR account (yet...).

Please note: Anyone who has MSAR Online access has agreed to the terms and conditions which precludes collecting and sharing the information in the manner previously described. The relevant term and condition is excerpted below.

MSAR Online Content and Other Intellectual Property
The content on MSAR Online, including without limitation, account access codes, the text, data, software, scripts, graphics, applets, photos, interactive features and the like ("Content") and the trademarks, service marks and logos contained therein ("Marks"), are owned by AAMC or used with our members' permission. The Content and Marks are subject to copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights under the law. Content on the Website is provided to you AS IS for your information and personal use only and may not be downloaded, copied, reproduced, distributed, transmitted, broadcast, displayed, sold, licensed, or otherwise exploited for any other purposes whatsoever without the prior written consent of AAMC. AAMC reserves all rights not expressly granted in and to MSAR Online and the Content.
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Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with these Terms, you may use the MSAR Online, including but not limited to the Content, solely for your own non-commercial, educational purposes. You may not use MSAR Online for any other purpose.

 

[paul411]

The purpose of this spreadsheet is to use publicly available data to ensure that it remains useful, but fair. So I think we should continue to use only publicly available data to that end.

 

[kpcrew]

you can purchase the msar for 20 dollars. https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/msar/
collaboration is nice but things cost money in the real world.

 

[Tummytroubles]

This is a great idea. $20 was a lot money for me in undergrad. That is almost another school you could apply to.

 

[gettheleadout]

First of all, this is awesome, thanks to all those who contributed!!!

Secondly, , regarding MSAR data... Why not calculate the "what are my chances" portion of this form using these trusted numbers and copy/paste the results of that calculation into our collaborative form? We're not publishing any copywrited data, and I don't think anyone other than "Lizzy" has intellectual property rights to the LizzyM Score algorithm (yet...). I would do this... but I don't have an MSAR account (yet...).

This is totally contrary to the whole idea of this spreadsheet, as Paul said. We want absolutely no risk of violating copyright with the information in this spreadsheet.

 

[mmmmd]

ok, i yield

again, thanks for the awesome

 

[syoung]

I had a quick question:

The MSAR data on accepted applicants and and median gpa/mcat, are they fully updated (ie for incoming 2012)? If not, could I ask the schools for that information? I saw some schools have 2011 class profile information, and nothing for 2012 (for obvious reasons).

What's the caveat I should be wary of when using this for my personal use? Of course accepted does not = matriculated. But is it a better way to judge using accepted data? It certainly shows low cGPA for ALL of the schools I'm applying to. 2-3 points difference from LizzyM. However, I'm limited with a 2009 MCAT score (16 schools) and really want to apply this year.

 

[kestralray]

Hey, I really appreciate the work you guys have put into it. However, I was wondering if you could put in (if it's available) data for #accepted for instate/out of state. It would help people see if there really is a huge IS/OOS bias, or if the OOS applicants actually just tend to turn down the school.

 

[syoung]

MSAR is all accepted data. You could put it in yourself for yourself (am I right?)

 

[sector9]

I had a quick question:

The MSAR data on accepted applicants and and median gpa/mcat, are they fully updated (ie for incoming 2012)? If not, could I ask the schools for that information? I saw some schools have 2011 class profile information, and nothing for 2012 (for obvious reasons).

What's the caveat I should be wary of when using this for my personal use? Of course accepted does not = matriculated. But is it a better way to judge using accepted data? It certainly shows low cGPA for ALL of the schools I'm applying to. 2-3 points difference from LizzyM. However, I'm limited with a 2009 MCAT score (16 schools) and really want to apply this year.

The MSAR is updated once a year in about April for the class from the previous application cycle. So you can expect stats for the 2012 matriculating class to be online around April 2013

Any more recent class profile info would be on school websites, and since class hasn't even started yet, I don't think that med schools will be giving out that info until class starts and they know for sure who showed up

 

[kestralray]

MSAR is all accepted data. You could put it in yourself for yourself (am I right?)

for numbers of students (i don't know about the stats for gpa/mcat), they list applicants, interview invites, and matriculants. I always wondered if there were few matriculants at, say UCLA/UCSF because lots of OOS acceptees (real word? i think not) choose to go to upenn or somewhere else instead.

or maybe i'm stupid and misread the MSAR? always possible

 

[m2k]

The purpose of this spreadsheet is to use publicly available data to ensure that it remains useful, but fair. So I think we should continue to use only publicly available data to that end.

I agree... but I thought MSAR information is available publicly at different places and MSAR has put all of it together at one place.

Another questions, just using this spread sheet and not using MSAR, what am I missing. I like the spreadsheet... Does MSAR have something similar? Or should I just buy MSAR?

 

[m2k]

Some things I'm already noticing: Yeah, lot's of schools post their matriculant data but sometimes students like myself care more about accepted student data. However, not all schools post matriculant, some post accepted. Would a spreadsheet where both of these #'s are being used be appropriate?

What is difference between accepted and Matriculant?

 

[gettheleadout]

What is difference between accepted and Matriculant?

Schools accept more applicants than actually matriculant into the school the next year.

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

MSAR is all accepted data. You could put it in yourself for yourself (am I right?)

MSAR is matriculant data, not accepted.

What is difference between accepted and Matriculant?

Accepted means a student was offered admission. Matriculant means they enrolled at the school.

 

[m2k]

MSAR is matriculant data, not accepted.



Accepted means a student was offered admission. Matriculant means they enrolled at the school.

Thanks, I guess Accepted is what we need to see what our chances of getting acceptance letter.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

I hate to be a total excel noob, but how exactly do I enter my own data? I can't seem to do it without screwing things up.

EDIT: figured it out.

 

[nontradmomma]

doesn't this work anymore? i entered different numbers under "Your Stats" to see if the results on the Main Sheet changed & it didn't...

 

[Calad]

doesn't this work anymore? i entered different numbers under "Your Stats" to see if the results on the Main Sheet changed & it didn't...

You have to make sure you download the excel file and open it on your computer, on the same page that says input your stats the LizzyM score should change

 

[Ruhroh]

Any reason why most of these numbers seem to be a bit below what is reported in the MSAR? In my 2010 version, MOST of the schools had MCATs about 1 point higher than most schools in this spreadsheet, and GPAs about .1 higher.

 

[nontradmomma]

ok. maybe i'm expecting too much out of this spreadsheet, also i misspoke in my prior post. my LizzyM score does change. what doesnt change is the "Chances" column on the "sorted by LizzyM Score" sheet (not the Main Sheet). is that supposed to change? or am i suppose to go down that list & change it manually. Also, i expected the "problems" column to change (ie, only state "Low cGPA" or "low MCAT" if mine is indeed low. but this is not changing either). if i'm expected to manually updated those columns, then that's ok. still a helpful spreadsheet. it just seemed like it should update automatically with my stats....

 

[Calad]

ok. maybe i'm expecting too much out of this spreadsheet, also i misspoke in my prior post. my LizzyM score does change. what doesnt change is the "Chances" column on the "sorted by LizzyM Score" sheet (not the Main Sheet). is that supposed to change? or am i suppose to go down that list & change it manually. Also, i expected the "problems" column to change (ie, only state "Low cGPA" or "low MCAT" if mine is indeed low. but this is not changing either). if i'm expected to manually updated those columns, then that's ok. still a helpful spreadsheet. it just seemed like it should update automatically with my stats....

It should change just fine, it does for me. Try putting in some random outlandish stats for the inputs and see if it changes. It may just be that your stats are very similar to the "default"

 

[nontradmomma]

i did. i tried really low stats & really high stats & neither changed that worksheet at all. i wonder if my version of excel isn't opening it or converting it correctly? i'm on my work computer (i know, i know) & i don't know how to see what version of excel it is but it is opening in some sort of "compatibility mode"

 

[nontradmomma]

i guess i'll try it again at home & see if it works on that excel.

 

[Owlie]

When I add my stats in, I get a message saying, "The value to be entered must be a whole number less than or equal to 4." So I can't enter a decimal. I'm not sure how to fix the downloaded excel sheet I have.

 

[theherowedeserv]

What's the difference between matriculant data and acceptance data?

Does that mean sometimes schools rescind their accepted?

 

[DAPI]

What's the difference between matriculant data and acceptance data?

Does that mean sometimes schools rescind their accepted?

Matriculated data only accounts those that actually decided to attend the school. Accepted data accounts for everyone that was accepted. So if someone was accepted to two schools, there data is in both groups, but they only matriculated to one of those schools.

It may happen once in a blue moon, but thats not what the data is referring to.

 

[Mark Twain]

When I add my stats in, I get a message saying, "The value to be entered must be a whole number less than or equal to 4." So I can't enter a decimal. I'm not sure how to fix the downloaded excel sheet I have.

I'm having the same problem..

 

[kami333]

When I add my stats in, I get a message saying, "The value to be entered must be a whole number less than or equal to 4." So I can't enter a decimal. I'm not sure how to fix the downloaded excel sheet I have.

I'm having the same problem..

If you're using Office 2010 (2007 should be very similar, can't speak for other versions).

Highlight the 2 cells, then go to "Data" tab, then "Data Validation" under "Data Tools" group, under "Settings", the allowed validation criteria needs to be changed from Whole number to Decimal or Any value.

 

[Owlie]

If you're using Office 2010 (2007 should be very similar, can't speak for other versions).

Highlight the 2 cells, then go to "Data" tab, then "Data Validation" under "Data Tools" group, under "Settings", the allowed validation criteria needs to be changed from Whole number to Decimal or Any value.

Amazing! Thank you

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

If you're using Office 2010 (2007 should be very similar, can't speak for other versions).

Highlight the 2 cells, then go to "Data" tab, then "Data Validation" under "Data Tools" group, under "Settings", the allowed validation criteria needs to be changed from Whole number to Decimal or Any value.

Amazing! Thank you

+2

 

[circulus vitios]

What's the difference between matriculant data and acceptance data?

Does that mean sometimes schools rescind their accepted?

MSAR reports median scores for matriculants. Averages scores are lower than median scores, and accepted scores are lower than matriculant scores.

Schools typically accept many more students than the school can hold. They know that many of the students will choose to go to school elsewhere. I've heard that if you're accepted and there are still too many students, the school could hold your acceptance and ask you to begin school the following year.

 

[DAPI]

MSAR reports median scores for matriculants. Averages scores are lower than median scores, and accepted scores are lower than matriculant scores.

Schools typically accept many more students than the school can hold. They know that many of the students will choose to go to school elsewhere. I've heard that if you're accepted and there are still too many students, the school could hold your acceptance and ask you to begin school the following year.

That's not correct. Accepted scores are higher than matriculant scores. I have all the MSAR data (accepted) and US News data (matriculated) and only 20 schools out of 168 schools (includes DO) have matriculant MCAT scores higher than accepted MCAT Scores and only 12 for overall GPA.

This was a quick true/false countif equation and the data is not complete because the MSAR does not have DO schools (it was taken from the DO equivalent and I'm not sure how they report) and US News does not have all the schools and/or data, but I think the point stands.

Edit: MSAR is accepted data and US News is matriculated.

 

[LizzyM]

Think about it... loads of really strong applicants get admitted to 5 or more schools but each can matriculate at only one. Once you throw out the data from those who do not matriculate, the mean (and even the median) for matriculants at that school is going to be lower than the mean and median of all admitted candidates for that school.

 

[circulus vitios]

That's not correct. Accepted scores are higher than matriculant scores. I have all the MSAR data (matriculated) and US News data (accepted) and only 20 schools out of 168 schools (includes DO) have matriculant MCAT scores higher than accepted MCAT Scores and only 12 for overall GPA.

This was a quick true/false countif equation and the data is not complete because the MSAR does not have DO schools (it was taken from the DO equivalent and I’m not sure how they report) and US News does not have all the schools and/or data, but I think the point stands.

Yup, you're right. I was confused over US News/school website data and MSAR data. It's higher because MSAR reports median scores while US News and school websites typically report averages. The average scores are almost always lower than the median scores.

 

[DAPI]

Yup, you're right. I was confused over US News/school website data and MSAR data. It's higher because MSAR reports median scores while US News and school websites typically report averages. The average scores are almost always lower than the median scores.

See my edit, that's not the reasoning. It’s because the MSAR is accepted data and US News is matriculated. I labeled them backwards because they are not labeled MSAR/US News data in my spread sheet, it’s just accepted vs matriculated.

 

[LizzyM]

Yup, you're right. I was confused over US News/school website data and MSAR data. It's higher because MSAR reports median scores while US News and school websites typically report averages. The average scores are almost always lower than the median scores.

And this is why a course in statistics should be required prior to admission to medical school.

You should know the difference between "average" (better to use the word "mean") and "median" and average (mean) is not always lower than median.

 

[Gauss44]

Yay!!!!

 

[circulus vitios]

And this is why a course in statistics should be required prior to admission to medical school.

You should know the difference between "average" (better to use the word "mean") and "median" and average (mean) is not always lower than median.

I'm aware that means and medians are different measures. Within the context of GPA and MCATs for medical school admissions, one is higher than the other.

 

[Owlie]

And this is why a course in statistics should be required prior to admission to medical school.

You should know the difference between "average" (better to use the word "mean") and "median" and average (mean) is not always lower than median.

Should people have learned those differences in 4th grade?

 

[Chibler]

When I download the sheet and open in office Mac, it gives me an error when i try to change the GPA, it says it must be a whole number less than or equal to 4... My GPA isn't a whole number!

EDIT: Nvm didnt see solution above about data validation, that fixed it. Thanks!

 

[GreyEarl]

Well, I'm sure glad I didn't use something like this to decide which schools to apply to. For almost half of the 11 schools I'm interviewing at, my prospect says "long shot."

Stats =/= Everything

 

[PGons]

The sheet is very helpful but kerp in mind some of the info on the sheet is a little out of date as well. For example, USC and Tulane both have average MCAT scores for their first year class that is 2 to 3 points higher than listed.

 

[SpecterGT260]

See my edit, that's not the reasoning. It’s because the MSAR is accepted data and US News is matriculated. I labeled them backwards because they are not labeled MSAR/US News data in my spread sheet, it’s just accepted vs matriculated.

average what scores? For accepted? Matriculated? Both?

I think you are right. Without looking at any data, most medical schools tend to pull from the top of "possible" anyways. If the population centers around 3.7 and 32, it is far more likely that more people with lower scores who were exceptional in other ways were also admitted or matriculated than there were those significantly above those numbers (because numbers above have limited impact on averages because they are already near the limits or because there are increasingly fewer people available to skew the data upwards) so for this most often mean < median.

 

[PGons]

average what scores? For accepted? Matriculated? Both?

I think you are right. Without looking at any data, most medical schools tend to pull from the top of "possible" anyways. If the population centers around 3.7 and 32, it is far more likely that more people with lower scores who were exceptional in other ways were also admitted or matriculated than there were those significantly above those numbers (because numbers above have limited impact on averages because they are already near the limits or because there are increasingly fewer people available to skew the data upwards) so for this most often mean < median.

Averages for their entering class( not accepted which I assume might be even higher). For USC it was 34 last year and for Tulane is was 33.

 

[steeno]

This would be a great tool for the upcoming cycle!

 

[Catalystik]

Averages for their entering class( not accepted which I assume might be even higher). For USC it was 34 last year and for Tulane is was 33.

If you have citable data from the school's website, you could pm paul411 about updating the data. You could also ask him for editing privileges, so you can do it yourself.