Lethal Injection debate

[KluverBucy]

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anyone read about this? people are saying that it's cruel and unusual punishment to administer thiopental for induction, pancuronium for a muscle relaxant, and finally potassium chloride to kill the prisoner. they're saying that using a paralytic just masks the pain that the prisoner is feeling during the injection. what a joke. does that mean that every pt who gets paralyzed for surgery is truly feeling pain, but that it's just masked? i can't believe this is in the supreme court.

why don't they just give the prisoners extrememly high doses of thiopental so there's no question about it? what do u all think?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060426/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_lethal_injection

 

[TheSleepMaster]

Why not just give all that plus 1000mcg of fentanyl before the K+. It would be the last ultimate buzz the Conn got b/f death.


How about save the drugs for people or countries that cant afford them and slam the K straight up. Those who brutally kill, should be brutally killed. WHy do we let these people rot in prison for 10 yrs eating up tax payer money when they are sentenced to death any way. I have visited the Louisiana State Pen on a field trip and toured their hospital there. These people get better healthcare than the lower class that are poor yet make to much to qualify for the card. I say sentence them. Give them 2 chances to appeal and to get a retrial just to ensure they are guilty. Once we are sure drag them back, give them last meal and let the family say bye then times up.

 

[djipopo]

that's assuming that every single person in jail or on death row is indeed guilty, and we all know that's true, right? 😎

 

[dogbone65]

that's assuming that every single person in jail or on death row is indeed guilty, and we all know that's true, right? 😎

Ask everybody in prison.....they will all say they are innocent. Damn bloody gloves don't mean a thing.....................LOL

 

[jwk]

anyone read about this? people are saying that it's cruel and unusual punishment to administer thiopental for induction, pancuronium for a muscle relaxant, and finally potassium chloride to kill the prisoner. they're saying that using a paralytic just masks the pain that the prisoner is feeling during the injection. what a joke. does that mean that every pt who gets paralyzed for surgery is truly feeling pain, but that it's just masked? i can't believe this is in the supreme court.

why don't they just give the prisoners extrememly high doses of thiopental so there's no question about it? what do u all think?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060426/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_lethal_injection

Do you know what they give for lethal injection? I crack up every time some liberal criminal-loving jackass lawyer thinks it's cruel and unusual.

They start with 2000mg of pentothal - that's 2 grams - for you youngsters out there, that's four of the big syringes we usually use for induction.

Then just for the hell of it, they get 100mg of pavulon. That's 10 VIALS.

Then, just for the hell of it, as if the barbs and NMB's aren't enough to cause quick hypoxia and death, they give 100-200 mEQ of KCL. Talk about overkill.

Suffer? Puhleeeeeeeze.

 

[starsop93]

Listen, The economic argument that we should just execute them because "the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a life in prison" is ridiculous. It is a LOT more expensive to execute someone than to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives. It isn't even close when you factor all the legal costs and state costs involved. If you want a more cost-effective justice system so you can pay less taxes, you should be aggressively advocating for the elimination of the death penalty. Simple solution. Capital punishment is also immoral and demonstrably unfair, but that usually falls way down the list in this country to the taxpayer in the upper income brackets.

 

[dogbone65]

How 'bout we chain them up and drop their asses in the mountains of Afganistan? That way they would be free to go, prisons would be empty, taxes would drop, we could build golf courses, lakes, and shooting ranges on the prison land; oooh, or use the prisons to house the homeless..that oughta make you smile. 😛 The liberals could then quit whining about us being mean to those sweet, innocent rapists and murders and maybe our boys over in Afhanistan could get in some target practice.

 

[mysophobe]

Until they hijack a plane on its way to America and fly it into the White House.

 

[nocallaochicas]

I suggest reading the recent NEJM article (editorial, I think) about the death penalty...lethal injection spefically. From the posts above, I think a little education is needed. Anyone have that citation? I will dig it up if no one posts it soon.

 

[djipopo]

Ask everybody in prison.....they will all say they are innocent. Damn bloody gloves don't mean a thing.....................LOL

Yes, the majority of criminals who are incarcerated say they are innocent. I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that a few of them are 😱 . Why should they be sacrificed?

 

[driverabu]

Listen, The economic argument that we should just execute them because "the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a life in prison" is ridiculous. It is a LOT more expensive to execute someone than to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives. It isn't even close when you factor all the legal costs and state costs involved. If you want a more cost-effective justice system so you can pay less taxes, you should be aggressively advocating for the elimination of the death penalty. Simple solution. Capital punishment is also immoral and demonstrably unfair, but that usually falls way down the list in this country to the taxpayer in the upper income brackets.

From my understanding, most people, including myself believe that we shouldn't have part of our tax money go to feed these sorry SOBs for the rest of their lives. I don't give a damn about cost effectiveness, I just don't think that these convicted rapists, child killers/molesters, murderers deserve to be on this earth.....I can just hear the liberal jack arses out there..."who do you think you are, God?" No, I am not God, but I am also not a liberal jackas who thinks that these slimes should be treated as humans....

 

[dogbone65]

From my understanding, most people, including myself believe that we shouldn't have part of our tax money go to feed these sorry SOBs for the rest of their lives. I don't give a damn about cost effectiveness, I just don't think that these convicted rapists, child killers/molesters, murderers deserve to be on this earth.....I can just hear the liberal jack arses out there..."who do you think you are, God?" No, I am not God, but I am also not a liberal jackas who thinks that these slimes should be treated as humans....

I'm chokin up dude....poetic....f'ing poetic.

 

[KluverBucy]

Do you know what they give for lethal injection? I crack up every time some liberal criminal-loving jackass lawyer thinks it's cruel and unusual.

They start with 2000mg of pentothal - that's 2 grams - for you youngsters out there, that's four of the big syringes we usually use for induction.

Then just for the hell of it, they get 100mg of pavulon. That's 10 VIALS.

Then, just for the hell of it, as if the barbs and NMB's aren't enough to cause quick hypoxia and death, they give 100-200 mEQ of KCL. Talk about overkill.

Suffer? Puhleeeeeeeze.

did you know that they have veternarians testifying in court that its illegal to use these drugs on animals, so of course the liberal lawyers draw the conclusion that it MUST be cruel to use them on humans? (i think they're refering to the pavulon). WTF?? i truly cannot believe how so many frickin' liberals out there believe this is cruel and unusual when they know absolutely NOTHING about medicine. why don't we just end all debate and have a boarded anesthesiologist testify in court? geeesh...even this whole debate in the High Court is TRULY a waste of taxpayers' money.

ps. i have to edit this post and provide you with a link to this truly liberal website about how "cruel" lethal injection is...
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/002773.html

another newspaper article on a prisoner suing the state of Tennessee on his belief of the cruelty of Pavulon
http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/03/05/33658284.shtml

 

[Trisomy13]

some liberal criminal-loving jackass lawyer ...

"liberal" does not automatically equal "criminal-loving".

shades of grey, my friend.




on the other hand... "jackass lawyer" sounds about right.

 

[Trisomy13]

Yes, the majority of criminals who are incarcerated say they are innocent. I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that a few of them are 😱 . Why should they be sacrificed?

shhh! if you offer a differing viewpoint you are clearly a liberal jackass. 🙄

 

[BlazerMed]

As long as they continue with the alcohol swab prior to injection.

That always cracks me up.

 

[cloud9]

I suggest reading the recent NEJM article (editorial, I think) about the death penalty...lethal injection spefically. From the posts above, I think a little education is needed. Anyone have that citation? I will dig it up if no one posts it soon.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/12/1221

When Law and Ethics Collide — Why Physicians Participate in Executions

Atul Gawande, M.D., M.P.H.
Volume 354:1221-1229 March 23, 2006 Number 12

 

[s204367]

Screw the thiopental.....pancuronium and KCL seems just fine to me.......and perhaps even to kind of a death.....

 

[roctown]

i believe that the issue is when the drugs are injected at slightly improper doses and/or times the prisoner actually dies a very painful death. I think it has been argued that the person can on occasion feel chest pain similar to an MI as well as consciously suffocate.

 

[rn29306]

i believe that the issue is when the drugs are injected at slightly improper doses and/or times the prisoner actually dies a very painful death. I think it has been argued that the person can on occasion feel chest pain similar to an MI as well as consciously suffocate.

There is no way this is possible with the dosages listed...

 

[jwk]

i believe that the issue is when the drugs are injected at slightly improper doses and/or times the prisoner actually dies a very painful death. I think it has been argued that the person can on occasion feel chest pain similar to an MI as well as consciously suffocate.

BS - you're clueless - read post #5 above for clarification.

 

[cubs3canes]

Anyone that is thinking of working on a prison ward to provide care should read that article and listen to Dr. Musso's interview after it.

Basically-AMA and AOA are agaisnt participating by any physician in anypart of any execution including pronoucing the convict dead. The aurthor could find no doctors that participate in the execution except to pronounce the convict dead. A couple of the guys said that every once in a while the doc has to help with the IV. A court appointed layperson pushes the drugs. The ACLU has tried to get these docs liscenses suspended, but they are very unsuccessful.

Why not just use two sticks of propofol, then panc, then the KCl. Has one seen someone stay awake with that much propofol (pushed quickly of course).? Predose with lidocaine if they are worried about the "warmness/heat" in the injection site.

Right or wrong, the article makes one good point. Most people want to have the death penalty, but no one wants to be the physician in charge.

 

[aredoubleyou]

Anyone that is thinking of working on a prison ward to provide care should read that article and listen to Dr. Musso's interview after it.

.

I was seriously considerning that after 4 yrs of med school and 4 years residency, and entering an in-demand specialty that I was going to work for the state prison system - now that dream gone. 🙁

Dam n you Cubs - next youre gunna tell me I shouldn't get a job on a cruise ship.