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Especially if you' transfer to your state school. You can always just say for one reason or another you needed to be closer to your family. I don't really see a problem here.
Let's bash Johns Hopkins UG
Started by nets445
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Especially if you' transfer to your state school. You can always just say for one reason or another you needed to be closer to your family. I don't really see a problem here.
I find it really ridiculous how half the people on here believe that getting an A is simply about working hard. Sorry but that is simply not true, there's way too many other factors. Who your professor is, who your TF is, how much they expect from you and what your institution stands for also plays a big role. Who can Argue the fact that a chemistry professor at MIT expects more from his MIT students vs a state school professor? I'm not saying the state school is inferior in any way, but instead the expectations are different
It's a very touchy issue on here for sure. People just don't want their accomplishments at non-prestigious schools looked down upon which is understandable. But lets be real - getting a median grade in a class full of motivated, intelligent, 2200+ SAT people at a prestigious school is much harder than getting a median grade in a class full of mouthbreathing 1800 SAT frat boys at a non-prestigious school. The fact that both schools curve to a B-/C+ doesn't mean anything when you consider the competition you're judged against.
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Agreed, I was looking at the general chemistry final exams for a couple of US state schools and they looked really easy compared to the general chemistry exams that I wrote in first year - and I attend a top school in Canada. The exams had simple questions that shouldn't even be considered as college level chemistry; more like high school level chemistry. There is a clear reason why chemistry is a weed out course for a lot of people, and it shouldn't be made any easier than it already is. I mean come on, multiple choice questions, simple calculation based questions and regurgitating information - hardly any thinking involved..
But that's a poor comparison, maybe I should compare the exams to that of schools like Harvard.
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Meh. Upper level science classes at large state schools are filled with kids who could have easily attended much better school but chose their state school most often because of family and very low costs (or even free). Material those kids learn in the end is identical. The books are basically the same, especially if you take some very specialized science courses.
practically every school offers high level science courses. Your saying every student at every school who takes a upper level science course could have attended a high tier university. i don't think so. Sure there will always be a few really bright kids who opted to not spend money and attend their state school and do well, however, the bulk of these kids did NOT get a 2200+ on the SAT and get into top 20 UG's
The best part? They could end up at the same medical school as you and still be treated the same!
Might want to get over this hangup soon.
How would you know? You surveyed them? Do you think a university that accepts tens of thousands of students gives out full-scholarships with stipends will not find 500-600 super bright kids (most in honor programs) to fill out all the notoriously hard major courses?
The best part? They could end up at the same medical school as you and still be treated the same!
Might want to get over this hangup soon.
Thank you.
Looking strategically into being accepted to a grad school that considers GPA much more than the reputation of your undergraduate institution it makes perfect sense to go to a school that you believe will be the easiest to attain the highest GPA you possibly can.
i don't have to "survey" anyone. There are only a set number of incoming freshman spots at any given undergraduate institution. Your argument states that anyone in a upper level science course at any university is top 20 UG material and they just "opted" to not attend. I don't think so.
edit: by no means am i bashing people who don't go to a top 20 UG, my own school is somewhere in the late 20's. I'm just saying, there IS a difference between an individual who attends MIT and an individual who attends a less prestigious school. How would a MD's or DO's like it if physical therapists started talking about how they "opted" to attend PT school even though they could have gone to medical school?
And you have surveyed them, right? Yeah, I'm sure that the kids taking upper level Biochem at Cal State San Jose are every bit as bright and hard working as the kids taking upper level Biochem at Stanford
Also you forgot to add that kids at non-prestigious schools don't perform as well because they're stereotyped as low-SAT, lazy mouthbreathing cretins while kids at prestigious schools perform well because they're stereotyped as brilliant scholars bordering on genius-savantism 🙄
This is a terrible analogy.
And obviously I am not saying every kid who end up picking a hard major in their undergrad state school could have gone to top 20 UG. Many, including me, could have but chose not to. Actually I couldn't do to family reasons. And your idea that there is a difference just because you attended a top 20 UG is freaking ridiculous. How many kids go to Harvard because their parents went there? How many kids blow off their high school years? You attended top school - good for you. But don't come in here and tell me that there is a "difference" between you and any kid who didn't attend top 20 school.
Man I really hope med school students do not have the self-entitlement that some SDN members have.
And you have surveyed them, right? Yeah, I'm sure that the kids taking upper level Biochem at Cal State San Jose are every bit as bright and hard working as the kids taking upper level Biochem at Stanford
Also you forgot to add that kids at non-prestigious schools don't perform as well because they're stereotyped as low-SAT, lazy mouthbreathing cretins while kids at prestigious schools perform well because they're stereotyped as brilliant scholars bordering on genius-savantism 🙄
Stanford doesn't offer biochemistry major.
The fact is neither I nor you have the data to show which side is right. Due to reasons I mentioned earlier I believe that the hardest majors at large state schools are filled with kids who are just as bright as those who go to "top 20". You can chose to believe whatever you want if it makes you sleep better at night.
I really have no comment to reply to your second statement. Wow.
You're missing the point. It's not about comparing individuals and saying that any person at school X is automatically better than any person at school Y. It's simply about comparing the overall levels of competition.
There is a difference between scoring median at a prestigious school vs. scoring median at a non-prestigious school. The former is more impressive because of greater competition, even though the end grade can still be the same if both schools curve in a similar manner. Just like there is a difference between making the cut at an amateur golf tournament vs. making the cut at the US Open. It's about the level of competition, dude.
WOW...what are you complaining about?
I went to undergrad at a state school that curved to a C/C+. Even our honors classes were only curved to a B-.
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Again, a terrible analogy.
Bolded is your assumption that hasn't been proven one way or another. I really don't see a point in speculating.
its a social norm not an assumption. Going to harvard m.d > d.o. Why? because 99% of the population interested in this subject will prefer the former.
Ehh while this might be true to an extent...the way pre-med demographics works out I dont fully agree with this.
All the people who are clueless will never even make it to o-chem. By the time you get to the second class in a series I doubt the average is vastly different among two schools. Remember there are a ton of people who go to state schools but could have gotten into better school (often due to scholarships). Conversely there are people who are in Ivy schools for non-academic reasons (i.e. sports or because of their connections...cough....George Bush).
Dare I say if you made it through all the pre-med classes at a state school, you probably could have made it through them at an ivy/elite school?
When you say something that hasn't been shown to be true it is an assumption by definition. The fact that you think that it way easier to get good grades at a state school most rigorous programs than it is to get good grades in "top 20" school is an assumption because you don''t have any data to support it.
Just like M.D. D.O. thing you're saying is an analogy, a bad one too. We are talking about undergraduate studies which is completely different than med schools. To make an analogy like you did is to imply that it there is a huge similarity, and that is simply not the case.
We don't need a comprehensive study to show that students at higher regarded schools are, on average, brighter and harder working than students at lesser schools. The honors college stuff is a stretch (to say the least) and more importantly a cop-out argument that has no spine to it.
It's cool that you're championing for equality and all but you really need to accept and deal with the vast inequality that exists in this world. Just because people and institutions should be treated equally doesn't mean they are equal. Some people are better than others. Some schools are better than others. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging it instead of pushing some PC agenda to either deny it or make an excuse for it.
Like I said earlier, it's a very touchy issue amongst people who might not have attended prestigious schools but have achieved academic success (like you, I presume?)
Actually i think its more similar than you think.
All colleges and universities offer students with the opportunity to get a degree, both MD and DO medical schools also allow students to become a practicing american physician. Yet there is a difference between attending Harvard UG vs {insert state school ug} as well as there is a difference between holding an M.D title and a D.O title.
If this weren't true, no one would CARE about trying to get into Harvard or achieving a 2400 on the SAT nor would there be endless debates about M.D vs. D.O. Our planet is built upon inequality, no matter how hard to try to say everything is equal, it simply isn't.
I like how people think 2200+ on the SAT means your smart or something... I got that high and even I know it means almost nothing. The test has freaking grammar on it for christs sake.
And the difficulty of the class is going to vary more by the teacher much much more than by the undergrad. This argument is largely pointless.
Neither does a < 3.0 GPA
Yeah you do need a comprehensive study to say a group of kids is less bright and hard working and there is no way around it. Until then it is an assumption and a stereotype. And why would you say that honors college is a stretch? What is a spine in of an argument? A conclusion, a premise? Bottom line is, you're saying things that you don't know and that may be (and I think are likely to be) false and present it as common sense. Kind of like they do on some biased news networks.
You know political correctness has nothing to do with it. I just don't like it when people spread assumptions that could potentially hurt someone academically (a kid who went to state UG may do worse just because he believes he is less intelligent). If you want to claim kids who go to top school are brighter and more hard working than some of the brightest kids in state school, the least you can do is search for some evidence.
Contrary to what you think it isn't. I never think about it. The only times it gets annoying is when kids from top 20 whine about how difficult it was for them and how unfair it is to compare their hard-earned GPA's to GPA's of slackers like me. And of course the self-entitled kids who jump on every opportunity to tell everyone that they went to a top school.
You're pointing out that saying people in high level sciences could have gone to better schools is too much of an assumption, but then you make a MUCH bigger assumption that people at high prestige UG are automatically on a higher level. On average the kids at MIT might be higher, but then you have people like Nick Naylor who went to freaking baylor. You need to look at the students on an individual basis, instead of stereotyping. And your analogy is very flawed....
Similar in one way doesn't mean similar in other ways. Instead of making an analogy and saying generalities: "world is unfair - deal with it", you can try to find some data to support your claim.
While I do believe there is a difference between schools, and prestige carries weight in a lot of aspects. Assumptions that people choose schools purely for prestige are ridiculous. Hopefully, you'll get to a point in life where you could honestly care less about how smart others think you are or it's probably going to be a very long and unhappy one.
Same with the MD/DO concept, there are quite a few students that choose a DO over an MD school for reasons more important to them than the title. Also, it doesn't really matter where you went to school, if you're a prick, no one is going to like you.
Same with the MD/DO concept, there are quite a few students that choose a DO over an MD school for reasons more important to them than the title. Also, it doesn't really matter where you went to school, if you're a prick, no one is going to like you.
Suck it up OP.
Plenty of us alumni graduated with a good GPA (yes I was a science major, also doubled in a humanities field). If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Source: went to Hopkins for undergrad, met my fiancee, and had an amazing time there.
Plenty of us alumni graduated with a good GPA (yes I was a science major, also doubled in a humanities field). If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Source: went to Hopkins for undergrad, met my fiancee, and had an amazing time there.
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Same here, in undergrad the Curve was to a C- for weeds outs (physics, calc etc.), a C for most courses and a B- in some upper levels. As a postbacc at a different university all the classes are either curved to a low to middle C or not curved at all. Where are these B- to B curves? That would be nice...
Well what are the averages? My classes regularly have an average below 40.... I cant imagine what my life would be like if that wasn't curved!
I went to Hopkins. I had a wonderful research mentor who cared about my career development. I had interesting classes and even more interesting classmates. Sure there were aholes but that's true everywhere. Almost everyone I met there were wonderful, caring, hardworking people.
And I do believe the GPA carries more weight there. I got into medical school w/ a 3.5/36 and had plenty of interviews. I don't know how I would have done coming from another school but according to AAMC statistics 3.5 isn't the GPA you want going into the application cycle.
End of the day it's a wonderful, competitive, intellectual place. I loved going there.
That means your tests are too easy.
And I do believe the GPA carries more weight there. I got into medical school w/ a 3.5/36 and had plenty of interviews. I don't know how I would have done coming from another school but according to AAMC statistics 3.5 isn't the GPA you want going into the application cycle.
End of the day it's a wonderful, competitive, intellectual place. I loved going there.
That means your tests are too easy.
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Lol, not really. My school didn't seem to care.
JHU is probably the worst school to go to as a pre-med. Other nightmare pre-med institutions include Penn, Cornell, WashU, Princeton, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt. The GPAs at these places just don't compare. This doesn't even include the rough engineering schools like MIT/GA Tech.
Also hopkins grad, 👍 to everything here. I had a great experience, it's easy to find laid back people if you're chill yourself and grading was absolutely fair. Hell of a lot easier than med school I can tell you that, so enjoy it while you can.
Or having to curve means the professor is a poor question author with unrealistic expectations. The further I get in school, the more I realize the art of question writing. Any a-hole can write really hard questions or obscenely easy ones. It takes practice and a little talent to write questions that truly assess one's knowledge and critical thinking.
There are unrealistic comparisons being thrown around all over the place. Yes, a school like JHU has super competitive classes with the curve and big state school has *****s in the lecture halls. Many of those big state schools also have massive lectures with 5x and maybe even 10x the amount of people in the course. From a pure numbers stand point, the competitive, neurotic studying types most likely equal out.
I know a lot of people from a lot of different schools and am constantly surprised by the geniuses that come from podunk U and the idiots that come from supposed Top U. Your education is what you make it.
There are unrealistic comparisons being thrown around all over the place. Yes, a school like JHU has super competitive classes with the curve and big state school has *****s in the lecture halls. Many of those big state schools also have massive lectures with 5x and maybe even 10x the amount of people in the course. From a pure numbers stand point, the competitive, neurotic studying types most likely equal out.
I know a lot of people from a lot of different schools and am constantly surprised by the geniuses that come from podunk U and the idiots that come from supposed Top U. Your education is what you make it.
Unfortunately, if you are struggling now, it seems unlikely it will ever change. If you can't compete with the other students and postbacs now, how much do you think it will change when you take the MCAT, apply for medical school, or go to medical school? "Weed out" classes, though they seem harsh and mean, are there for a reason; to make sure the students that just won't be able to cut it know as soon as possible, or to get you to push harder and learn how to learn at a higher level.
If you are struggling in Cell Bio, you are going to have a lot of trouble later, because I think humans have a lot more than just one cell.
If you are struggling in Cell Bio, you are going to have a lot of trouble later, because I think humans have a lot more than just one cell.
wrong thread : p
I don't think humans have more than one cell. Let's see some proof.
P
PhiPhenomenon
I suppose that is a lot of money to waste just to be exposed to world class researchers and intensive learning when all you really want to do is impress those adcoms so gall-darned bad with a 3.7 GPA from Schmuck State U.
28% of my Chem I class at UBC failed last semester and the class average was a C-/D+. I only got a B. I still wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
Yeah, I agree. I haven't seen a single piece of peer-reviewed literature that explicitly lays out that humans are multi-cellular.
Thank you for that wonderful assumption. 🙄
ITT: Elitist snobs and rabid supporters of state schools.
Common denominator? Rampant insecurity and egos in need of constant validation.
Only on SDN.
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I went to Hopkins for undergrad and graduated with an unfortunate GPA. Doing poorly on exams pretty much became a permanent fixture in my college life. However, I don't think Hopkins was the problem.
I went back last year, took some intro-level science courses, and found that they weren't as hard as I remembered them. I found that the amount of time I used to study for exams and the strategies I used to review the material were lacking while in college.
Just because the courses at JHU are hard, it doesn't mean you don't have the tools to do well there. Contact the professor or a TA if you are doing poorly on exams, and schedule a time to meet with them, and discuss the concepts that you are struggling with on the exams. There is also a lot of free tutoring available on campus. This is what you are paying for, so use it.
One last thing about curves- I personally don't think that they are worth complaining about. The curves have helped me in every class I have taken that have utilized them. Do I wish they curved to a B/B+ rather than a C+/B-? Sure. But still, I will take my adjusted B- grade over the raw D grade I would have gotten.
I went back last year, took some intro-level science courses, and found that they weren't as hard as I remembered them. I found that the amount of time I used to study for exams and the strategies I used to review the material were lacking while in college.
Just because the courses at JHU are hard, it doesn't mean you don't have the tools to do well there. Contact the professor or a TA if you are doing poorly on exams, and schedule a time to meet with them, and discuss the concepts that you are struggling with on the exams. There is also a lot of free tutoring available on campus. This is what you are paying for, so use it.
One last thing about curves- I personally don't think that they are worth complaining about. The curves have helped me in every class I have taken that have utilized them. Do I wish they curved to a B/B+ rather than a C+/B-? Sure. But still, I will take my adjusted B- grade over the raw D grade I would have gotten.
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Hypocrisy at its finest...
😕
Do you see me telling other people that their school is inferior because their students are "stereotyped as low-SAT, lazy mouthbreathing cretins while kids at prestigious schools perform well because they're stereotyped as brilliant scholars bordering on genius-savantism"?
Conversely, do you see me constantly trying to defend my own rationale for attending to a state school in an attempt to make up for my supposed "shortcomings"?
No?
Excellent. Moving on.
I think in general you do get a nice competitiveness boost by going to a top UG, at least in my experience.
I vote you for the worst poster on SDN. Maybe even worst poster in the universe.
I don't find rankings of colleges to be that worthy, after all, at 18 years old, most college kids have their minds on a lot of other things.
Most people in this thread and board probably never stepped foot in a top 20 school cause it's only 20 schools compared to....how many universities in the US? So, I doubt there is really that much entitlement, only from a tiny minority who has a loud vocal presence.
That's like saying the only med schools/residencies that are ever worthy are from top 20 schools. Maybe the priorities are different than the vast majority of people >.>
Most people in this thread and board probably never stepped foot in a top 20 school cause it's only 20 schools compared to....how many universities in the US? So, I doubt there is really that much entitlement, only from a tiny minority who has a loud vocal presence.
That's like saying the only med schools/residencies that are ever worthy are from top 20 schools. Maybe the priorities are different than the vast majority of people >.>
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