Let's decide it here...Army, Navy, or AF?

[Coachin]

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Hey all...
First, I'd like to say thanks to everyone who has posted a ton of helpful info on this forum (Navy Dive Doc comes to mind but I am definitely leaving other people out by only mentioning him...I apologize). This forum has been an invaluable source of info for HPSP, residencies, and how being a military doc really works. I've read just about every post and have a 38 page document of passages I've cut-and-pasted from here. Much needed info that will be put to good use. I have applied for a Navy HPSP scholarship and am very interested in serving my country as a physician.

My question for all of you is, looking back at it from wherever you are now, which branch of service would you recommend to someone who will be applying for a HPSP scholarship? Basically, it seems that the Army or AF is a more practical option short and long term versus the Navy. I'm not sure I am a fan of the GMO tour (which seems to be mandatory coming off the internship year for Navy) when you haven't yet been through a residency.

Since becoming a full fledged doctor (ie through med school, a residency and board certiified with a specialty, etc, etc.) takes a long time (8 years minimum?) why would you want to spend time earning less pay and taking time away from more practical experience in your choosen specialty?

As he described it, Navy Dive Doc's GMO tour sounds like an opportunity that most doctors do not get and it is very appealing. However, 8 years plus 2-4 years as a GMO means that I won't be a "fully fledged doctor" until I am 37 or 39. At which time I will still owe a 4 year commitment to the Navy (assuming a 4 year residency). That is fine if I plan on staying in the military....which I have no objection against if I enjoy my time. If that was the case, the main downside to it then would be that you would be missing 2-4 years (due to the GMO tour) of Board Certified Pay, Incentive Specialty pay (variable depending on specialty), and the Medical Additional Special Pay. This is a big chunk of pay, 28K or more, to give up each year. Pay isn't everything but 28K additional each year adds up in a retirement account.

From what I have been able to find out, most of the Army and AF HPSP graduates go right into a residency program, either military or civilian. So they continue through with their training and wind up doing what they want to do a few years earlier than the average Navy doc.

So.....after all that thinking....I'm leaning more towards the Air Force or Army, but I want to hear what all of you have to say about it. Are you happy with your choice of Army, Navy, or Air Force? What would you recommend to someone just making that decision?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as replies come in but I'll stop here for now. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[Homunculus]

As an Army HPSPer, my opinion is naturally biased, but i would chose Army again in a heartbeat over the other two for two main reasons.

1) No GMO. Perhaps the Navy's biggest drawback (or positive if you like GMO type stuff).

2) Size. The Army has more residencies, more bases, and, IMO, more opportunities than the AF or Navy. Granted, some of these bases aren't as cushy as the AF, but I joined so i can see some places i normally wouldn't. With such a large medical department, there are enough spots for academia, clinical, and operational medicine, and the availability to switch between each if you want.

as far as HPSP experience goes, from talking to both AF and Navy HPSPers, Army has it better as well. Our OBC is already cake, but it's even easier than the AF, if that's possible. The Navy students I've talked to have headaches to no ends with their med ed department-- not that the Army's is that well run, but at least i know who i can call to get most things ironed out.

anyway, just two off the top of my head.

 

[Heeed!]

From the AF side of the house:

I agree with Homonculus, in the Army you'll see some places you wouldn't normally see.....and will never want to see again!!!😛 😛 The AF has places like that, too, but one of the big + of the AF is the quality of life. The AF spends more $ on housing, facilities, etc. Consequently, our bases tend to be better. (I spent almost 4 out of my 7 active duty years on a Navy base so I've had exposure to both.) No real GMO thing in the AF. I wouldn't sweat basic training, either. You get yelled at, have to shine your shoes, etc. Big deal. That won't happen on active duty.

Personally, I don't want to live on a ship. And I want a good quality of life when I'm not deployed. Therefore, the AF was an easy choice for me.

 

[bobbyseal]

Reasons why I joined the Navy over the other services....

My uncle was a career submariner who graduated from the academy. I'm really close to him, and honestly, I think he would have been dipped in poo if I went Army or Air Force.

Real estate: San Diego, Bremerton, Rhoda, Balboa, Jacksonville, Pearl Harbor. Since I love being near the ocean, I couldn't stand ending up in Lubbock, TX or Albuquerquee, NM.

On the other hand there is Guam and Okinawa.

When the president is sick, he doesn't see the Army or the Air Force. He goes to Navy medicine.

I'd rather be on a climate controlled hospital ship in the Middle East vs. a tent on the ground when a war broke out.

Like Jack Nicholson, I just couldn't get enough of those [expletive deleted] white uniforms.

 

[tman]

When the president is sick, he doesn't see the Army or the Air Force. He goes to Navy medicine.
Not to rain on your parade or anything but one slight correction, when the president is sick he goes to this guy (See attachment and notice the BLUE uniform):

Richard J. Tubb
Col, MC, USAF, SFS
Director, White House Medical Unit
The President's Physician

He was one of my preceptors for a second year class at USUHS, along with his backup who happens to be an army Lt. Col... National Naval Medical Center just happens to be a convienient drive from the White House...😀

 

[GMO_52]

I love all this service pride. The previous White House physician was RADM Connie Marino (sp?), the first USUHS grad to attain flag rank and...a Navy doc. Not that this is relevant to the discussion.

The one point I would make is that having the Navy operational billets filled by GMOs is a double-edged sword. Yes, you will probably have to take a turn as a GMO but after that, it will be someone else's turn for the most part. The Army billets didn't disappear when the stopped having as many GMOs, they just task the primary care docs with them over and over again. At least in the Navy, the burden is shared more evenly.

As for the AF docs living in comfort, tell that to the folks living in Iraq/Kuwait for the past few months.

I chose the Navy because it was what I was familiar with and I like San Diego.

 

[proudtobeaTxAg]

I appreciate everybody's replies because I am also deciding which brach to go into. I am very interested in the Marines and if anybody has more info on what it's like after med school for a Marine Doc or just any general info, I would be very grateful as I'm sure a few other people would also. Thanks so much!

 

[Globus P]

Bobbyseal,

Yes indeed the Navy has some great real estate, don't exclude Guam or Okinawa. I've been to both many times with the Navy and both are great, I wouldn't include it in my "crappy parts of the world" list. Grand Forks, North Dakota; Albuquerque, NM....yes, put them on the top of that list.....no thanks. You AF guys can have it. 😉

 

[bobbyseal]

Hey ENS Todd,

I just have to say that although Guam and Okinawa may have their nice points, I'd still rather be in Bethesda or Portsmouth, let alone SD or Pearl Harbor.

BTW, does AZCOM pump out Navy docs or what? I had like three guys in my company at OIS during the summer of 2002.

Speaking of OIS, there's another plus for the Navy. Three and half weeks of "basic training" in lovely Newport was a vacation. My girlfriend really lost confidence in military training when I called her at night and discussed the whole mile and half I had to jog that day. Or the bar where some former officer bought us drinks the night before.

All I got to say is Hoo-Ah Navy.

 

[Heeed!]

Grand Forks, North Dakota; Albuquerque, NM....yes, put them on the top of that list.....no thanks. You AF guys can have it.

ToddE, the AF has a few bad bases, like any other branch, but definitely has more positives: McChord AFB (Seattle), Tyndall AFB (Panama City, FL), Andrews AFB (DC), Lakenheath AFB (England), Elmendorf AFB (Alaska), etc. At each one of these bases I get to come home, hang with my kids, play some golf, etc. The very thought of floating out in the middle of an ocean for 6-9 months on a bo-at nearly gives me an MI. Not much room to bring your clubs, either. You Navy guys can have that!😛

 

[Globus P]

Bobbyseal,

Indeed, AZCOM cranks out the Navy DOs, we have 16 Navy HPSP folks here (MS1 and MS2). Plus we have some great prior Navy line officer experience here to share with the "straight up" HPSP Ensigns; we have one former Surface Warfare Officer (SWO), one former Navy Intel Officer, and a former EA-6B Prowler Navy Flight Officer (that's me).
The Navy is a great service and I admit the AF is too. My twin brother is an USAF Major, currently stationed in Northern Italy (he was stationed in Colorado Springs before that....yes two great duty stations).

Heed! The Navy and AF has some great locations. Sounds like we all have found our appropriate services and good to be proud of that. I've been to many AF bases and they are always very nice. I happen to like the boat, did 3 years on an aircraft carrier. Sure it wasn't the most luxurious existence, but we did some pretty cool stuff and visitied many great ports (Singapore, Hong Kong, Guam, Thailand, Korea, Austraila, Dubai, Bahrain....each location several times) At each place we stayed at 4 star hotels for 4-7 days (we lived it up on the 28th floor of the Ritz Carlton in Hong Kong for 5 days, talk about nice). Those experiences outweight the difficulties of living onboard a ship for 6 months at at a shot. Yet the AF takes care of its folk too at the deployable locations.
We bring out clubs with us! Sometimes hit golf balls out into the open sea off the flight deck (obviously we can't retrieve the balls (use range balls), then hit the various golf courses when we hit the ports....there's always a way to golf 🙂

Bobbyseal, fret not, the Navy has very few sea going doc billets. The great majority of Navy docs are stations at hospitals. Yet don't be scared to go to a ship. Like I said earlier, you'll do some really neat stuff and you might just like it.

 

[JHUstudent]

Hello all,
I interviewed at USUHS last week and was told that GMOs would be counted towards our payback time by several people. Speaking from experience, do you find this to be true?
Thanks

 

[Globus P]

Yes, indeed, a GMO tour does count toward your payback; year for year.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Originally posted by proudtobeaTxAg
I appreciate everybody's replies because I am also deciding which brach to go into. I am very interested in the Marines and if anybody has more info on what it's like after med school for a Marine Doc or just any general info, I would be very grateful as I'm sure a few other people would also. Thanks so much!

Marine Corps doesn't have physicians. The Marines use Navy docs.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Originally posted by bobbyseal
Like Jack Nicholson, I just couldn't get enough of those [expletive deleted] white uniforms.

Is this from A Few Good Men?

 

[bobbyseal]

Yeah,

It's a line when Tom Cruise is down in Guantanemo bay, and Nicholson comments on the white uniform. I won't quote him word for word, but you can probably remember.

 

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by JKDMed
Marine Corps doesn't have physicians. The Marines use Navy docs.

They're Navy docs, but, where goes the branches of the Navy, so go the surgeons: if you work with the Marines, you will be a Marine in Navy blue (or, you may wear the Marine uniform with your Navy rank - a great honor). If you are a "SEAL doc", you will run, jump, and swim with them.

 

[brats800]

what type of docs become 'SEAL docs'? i mean, would you get residency trained in FP or EM or what? or are 'SEAL docs' (or that kind of non-traditional medical doc) GMO's? looking on the perscom billets page ( http://www.persnet.navy.mil/pers4415/medical_corps.htm ) i don't find anything that seems to fit that idea...