License without intern year?

[psychalot]

Hey guys, quick question:

Is there anyway to get a medical license without completing a 1 year internship? I'm thinking like a limited license or something that would allow me to prescribe medications.

I know technically you need at minimum 1 year + passing step 3 to be licensed but most hospitals won't hire you if you aren't bc/be. I'm not interested in that kind of work, but I would need to be able to prescribe meds.

Is there any way to get clinical experience to count for an intern year equivalent in the state boards eyes? Thanks for your help.

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[Raryn]

Hey guys, quick question:

Is there anyway to get a medical license without completing a 1 year internship? I'm thinking like a limited license or something that would allow me to prescribe medications.

I know technically you need at minimum 1 year + passing step 3 to be licensed but most hospitals won't hire you if you aren't bc/be. I'm not interested in that kind of work, but I would need to be able to prescribe meds.

Is there any way to get clinical experience to count for an intern year equivalent in the state boards eyes? Thanks for your help.

No.

For US grads, without a minimum of 12 months of (usually accredited) post-graduate education, you cannot get any kind of license to practice any kind of medicine in any state. In ~1/4 of the states, it is more than 12 months.

For IMGs, it is at least 24 months in 48 of the states.

I mean, I suppose if you just wanted to prescribe meds without completing a residency, you could go to school and become a nurse practitioner and then move to one of the states where they have independent practice rights. But that seems like it would take longer than just finding a residency program somewhere.

 

[Top Gun]

No way. And for good reason. There is no way that a partial internship could fully prepare a physician to practice independently. In fact, one completed internship is not enough to prepare you for independent practice. At a minimum, states will require at least completion of an internship before issuing a medical license.

 

[psychalot]

Are you 100% sure?

No way. And for good reason. There is no way that a partial internship could fully prepare a physician to practice independently. In fact, one completed internship is not enough to prepare you for independent practice. At a minimum, states will require at least completion of an internship before issuing a medical license.

While I appreciate your input I think you are grossly overestimating the complexity of medicine and what it takes to practice. In addition, everyone learns at a different pace.

Also, I'm not talking about setting up shop as a primary care physician. Practice would be an integrative approach.

 

[Rendar5]

I think you are grossly underestimating what it takes to practice medicine in a non stupid manner, and that you have no perspective without completing at least internship. You don't even realize until after the year is out how much you did not know.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

The licensure system is set up precisely to prevent undertrained people who either couldn't or couldn't be bothered to even do an internship from being inflicted on the public.

 

[psychalot]

I'm less interested in opinions and more interested in facts. If someone has more information I'd love to hear it.

 

[brotherman]

Hey guys, quick question:

Is there anyway to get a medical license without completing a 1 year internship? I'm thinking like a limited license or something that would allow me to prescribe medications.

I know technically you need at minimum 1 year + passing step 3 to be licensed but most hospitals won't hire you if you aren't bc/be. I'm not interested in that kind of work, but I would need to be able to prescribe meds.

Is there any way to get clinical experience to count for an intern year equivalent in the state boards eyes? Thanks for your help.

Without the requirements being met, no license will be issued. No exceptions are made.

 

[gutonc]

I'm less interested in opinions and more interested in facts. If someone has more information I'd love to hear it.

The fact (as has been reported by everyone who also happens to have opinions) is that, no, you can't get a license without at least some amount (1-3 years depending on the state and your grad status) of PGY training.

 

[rokshana]

I'm less interested in opinions and more interested in facts. If someone has more information I'd love to hear it.

the factual answer is no…no state in the US will allow you to do so…

opinion…as others have stated you have absolutely no idea the amount of information you do not know do need to be able to practice medicine responsibly…its not "ER" or Grey's Anatomy…just because you can play one on tv (or stayed in a Holiday Inn) does not make it really so…

 

[Raryn]

I'm less interested in opinions and more interested in facts. If someone has more information I'd love to hear it.

The very first reply to your question (my own in fact) has facts in it.

If you need citations to back them up, http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html has the list of all ~76 state boards (counting DO/MD boards in all states/territories) and their explicit requirements for a medical license. It's up to date as of Nov 2013. Maybe some state has changed their requirements to not insist on post-graduate training in the last 4 months. Somehow though, I doubt it.

 

[psychalot]

Thanks for the info provided. I know there are ways, I just was hoping someone who has done it before would speak up.

As for residency, I do have an understanding of what is necessary to practice medicine. It's a tough pill to swallow that many years of hard work may not have been necessary, but that doesn't make it any less true.

 

[drcrispmd]

As others have said you have to have at least 1 year of residency to get a medical license, and some states require more. There is no prescribing only license. Don't know what kind of prescribing practice you are wanting to do, but I would watch it. DEA has been cracking down on "Pill Mill" docs (who are licensed and board certified). If you are wanting to do a suboxone/subutext clinic, that is another certification you need along with your license. Are you an intern looking at dismissal from your program? I know for virginia I had to have my program fill out a form saying I had 2 years of residency completed.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Thanks for the info provided. I know there are ways, I just was hoping someone who has done it before would speak up.

As for residency, I do have an understanding of what is necessary to practice medicine. It's a tough pill to swallow that many years of hard work may not have been necessary, but that doesn't make it any less true.

No, your posts make it very obvious that you don't.

 

[Shikima]

No license. No insight.

 

[Top Gun]

Are you 100% sure?


While I appreciate your input I think you are grossly overestimating the complexity of medicine and what it takes to practice. In addition, everyone learns at a different pace.

Also, I'm not talking about setting up shop as a primary care physician. Practice would be an integrative approach.

And with all due respect, I think you're underestimating the complexity of medicine. Its not as straightforward as X pill is used for Y disease. Every decision you make involves a myriad of things to consider. You have to weigh all the benefits and risks of each course of action. There are many times when there is no perfect solution. Do you really think that without even completing the minimum of required training that you're going to be ready to make decisions like that? That is why most people complete at least 3-5 years of training before going into practice.

 

[Maybeknot]

Thanks for the info provided. I know there are ways, I just was hoping someone who has done it before would speak up.

As for residency, I do have an understanding of what is necessary to practice medicine. It's a tough pill to swallow that many years of hard work may not have been necessary, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Guys, you're being ridiculous. psychalot wants facts, not opinions.

Here's a fact. You can absolutely get a license without completing an intern year. Here's how.

(1) Find someone who qualifies under Raryn's post (#11), ie completed medical school and 1-3 years of internship/residency.
(2) Murder said person.
(3) Hide the body.
(4) Assume their identity.
(5) Apply to the state medical board for a license to practice medicine.

Easy peasy.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Guys, you're being ridiculous. psychalot wants facts, not opinions.

Here's a fact. You can absolutely get a license without completing an intern year. Here's how.

(1) Find someone who qualifies under Raryn's post (#11), ie completed medical school and 1-3 years of internship/residency.
(2) Murder said person.
(3) Hide the body.
(4) Assume their identity.
(5) Apply to the state medical board for a license to practice medicine.

Easy peasy.

You forgot the part about facial plastic surgery so that you resemble your victim. Still easy peasy though.

 

[LucidSplash]

Thanks for the info provided. I know there are ways...

If you "know there are ways" why did you ask? Please elaborate on what these "ways" are, perhaps for the enlightenment of the rest of us, who clearly believe otherwise. Share your knowledge oh learned one that the light of understanding may shine upon us all.

 

[psychalot]

my understanding of licensure was outdated, sorry for the confusion.

regarding practicing medicine without 3-5 years of training. i think you are overstating its complexity. residency (non technical residencies) is more about learning how to solve problems and understanding when you need help. you aren't expected to know everything and you shouldn't have to. there's a reason the law allows unrestricted practice after 1-2 years of residency.

 

[rokshana]

my understanding of licensure was outdated, sorry for the confusion.

regarding practicing medicine without 3-5 years of training. i think you are overstating its complexity. residency (non technical residencies) is more about learning how to solve problems and understanding when you need help. you aren't expected to know everything and you shouldn't have to. there's a reason the law allows unrestricted practice after 1-2 years of residency.

yeah, its a throwback to the time when the norm was to go out and set up practice as a doc after a year of a rotating internship….back when my father was a resident.

there are VERY few…wisc and ga are the only 2 that come to mind with only a year…maybe a handful for the 2 year mark…but unless you are setting up your only cash only practice? you won't find an insurance company that will reimburse you for your services….and very few (if any)hospitals that will grant you privileges…

and its very obvious you haven't had any real clinical experiences…mostly because you think medicine isn't complex(esp the non technical ones)…the thing you get out of residency isn't that you learn it all..its that you realize exactly how little you do know….

 

[psychalot]

yeah, its a throwback to the time when the norm was to go out and set up practice as a doc after a year of a rotating internship….back when my father was a resident.

there are VERY few…wisc and ga are the only 2 that come to mind with only a year…maybe a handful for the 2 year mark…but unless you are setting up your only cash only practice? you won't find an insurance company that will reimburse you for your services….and very few (if any)hospitals that will grant you privileges…

and its very obvious you haven't had any real clinical experiences…mostly because you think medicine isn't complex(esp the non technical ones)…the thing you get out of residency isn't that you learn it all..its that you realize exactly how little you do know….

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

take a look at minimum requirements if you're interested, you might be surprised.

and you misunderstood my previous comment. the technical aspect of medicine will require more time than the cerebral component. supposedly you've been training your brain for years how to think, while the same is not necessarily true for the more technical aspects of medicine.

 

[rokshana]

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

take a look at minimum requirements if you're interested, you might be surprised.

and you misunderstood my previous comment. the technical aspect of medicine will require more time than the cerebral component. supposedly you've been training your brain for years how to think, while the same is not necessarily true for the more technical aspects of medicine.

sorry, i thought it was the other way around…

i had a surgeon tell me that anyone can do surgery…heck a trained monkey can do it…but it was know what to do when things went wrong…that was what a surgeon is trained for…i interpret that as being the more non technical aspects of surgery.

the rest still holds true…you are not very employable unless you set up your own cash only shop….you will still however need to do at least one year of training to even do that.

 

[e30ftw]

whats the matter, scared of a little work?

if you can get through med school, residency is way better.

why would anyone want to practice a high-liability job without any training? you are going to kill people, get sued, etc..

and no, being a medical student does not prepare you to be a practicing physician.

 

[Doctor Bob]

…but unless you are setting up your only cash only practice? you won't find an insurance company that will reimburse you for your services….and very few (if any)hospitals that will grant you privileges…

This is a very important point.

Just getting a license isn't enough. When you go through the credentialling process at whatever hospital you plan to work at or have privileges at, more and more it is required that you be BC/BE in whatever specialty you are planning to practice.
So with just a year or two of training, your only choice would then be private practice with no admitting/consulting privileges. And then you have the reimbursement issue.

Add malpractice insurance on top of that. If you aren't BE/BC in your chosen field your premiums are going to be a lot lot lot higher.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Exciting options open to you, if you are able to obtain a license and an internship:

- wound care specialist
- abortionist
- prison medicine
- legitimizer of snake oil specialist who can now pretend you have an "integrative medicine" practice

 

[Mad Jack]

An MD without an intern year is just an incredibly overqualified failure. Suck it up.

 

[Law2Doc]

...residency (non technical residencies) is more about learning how to solve problems and understanding when you need help. you aren't expected to know everything and you shouldn't have to. there's a reason the law allows unrestricted practice after 1-2 years of residency.

First, I'm not sure what you mean by a "nontechnical" residency. Second, problem solving and understnding when you need help is certainly part of it, but you are drastically oversimplifying to job, and aren't even at that stage here you can personally make this evaluation. Your post reads like a private flight school grad who says he can fly a commercial jet because "it's like riding a Bicycle" or they "pretty much fly themselves". It's easy to say that, but saying it or hearing it doesn't make it true. Once you've strapped in in the cockpit for a while on your own you start to see that most if it is things you really won't have learned without a few years of additional training, and nuances that wouldn't have ever occurred to you without more experience. And no one readily available to help you at a Moments notice. Yes you can technically do the minimum intern year and get licensed, but people generally don't do that if they have any choice because it puts you in a very precarious position.

 

[Doctor Bob]

First, I'm not sure what you mean by a "nontechnical" residency.

I think they are referrring to a non-surgical field... ie: something like internal medicine.

Still... it's, as you put it, a drastic oversimplification, and reflects a limited understanding of how the various fields work.

 

[Top Gun]

my understanding of licensure was outdated, sorry for the confusion.

regarding practicing medicine without 3-5 years of training. i think you are overstating its complexity. residency (non technical residencies) is more about learning how to solve problems and understanding when you need help. you aren't expected to know everything and you shouldn't have to. there's a reason the law allows unrestricted practice after 1-2 years of residency.

Residency is in-depth training in a given specialty. The purpose of it is twofold: to impart knowledge (through conferences, M&M, board review, etc..) and to provide practical experience applying that knowledge. The resident has a chance to gain clinical experience while still under supervision, which mitigates the risk of harm. The resident gains experience with a variety of clinical scenarios, and gradually learns how to apply the appropriate knowledge toward a given patient, and how to make appropriate decisions for each particular patient. What applies to one patient may not apply to another. In medicine, there is no "one size fits all" solution for every particular patient or problem. This is what a resident learns through training. Practicing medicine without completing at least an internship is like a beginning swimmer jumping into a deep ocean filled with sharks.

 

[psychalot]

it's interesting to see that the level of maturity displayed in posts directly correlates with the degree of training. but, as always, i'm appreciative of the responses.

my understanding reflects a limited understanding of how various fields work? i don't think there's anyone who understands the various fields more than a fresh medical student who has actually just been exposed to all of them. there are plenty of practicing physicians right now who couldn't tell you what a pm&r physician does, what procedures a pain specialist can perform or what procedures a radiologist can perform (non-interventional). the point is, you don't need to know everything, you just need to know when to refer around or when to ask for help.

it's not drastically oversimplified. i think the issue is accepting that many of you will have spent years over what is actually necessary to practice your specialty. when in reality, you could have been safely practicing medicine years earlier on your own.

 

[stems]

it's interesting to see that the level of maturity displayed in posts directly correlates with the degree of training. but, as always, i'm appreciative of the responses.

my understanding reflects a limited understanding of how various fields work? i don't think there's anyone who understands the various fields more than a fresh medical student who has actually just been exposed to all of them. there are plenty of practicing physicians right now who couldn't tell you what a pm&r physician does, what procedures a pain specialist can perform or what procedures a radiologist can perform (non-interventional). the point is, you don't need to know everything, you just need to know when to refer around or when to ask for help.

it's not drastically oversimplified. i think the issue is accepting that many of you will have spent years over what is actually necessary to practice your specialty. when in reality, you could have been safely practicing medicine years earlier on your own.

Yes, you're correct "a medical student understands the various fields of medicine best". You really do have a lack of understanding of medicine which is why I'm glad that no state will allow you to practice without having completed more training. I really hope you have other reasons for the laziness I see in you of not wanting to start an internship, if not, you best not practice medicine. If you do practice medicine without completing an internship, and becoming licensed, it's a Third Degree Felony and you can get up to 10 years in Prison instead of practicing as a physician.

Although many of us will have spent years training, at least unlike you, we will be practicing physicians instead of prison inmates.

Finally, a word of caution: With your current attitude and mind-set you may have a very hard time getting into any residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

it's interesting to see that the level of maturity displayed in posts directly correlates with the degree of training. but, as always, i'm appreciative of the responses.

my understanding reflects a limited understanding of how various fields work? i don't think there's anyone who understands the various fields more than a fresh medical student who has actually just been exposed to all of them. there are plenty of practicing physicians right now who couldn't tell you what a pm&r physician does, what procedures a pain specialist can perform or what procedures a radiologist can perform (non-interventional). the point is, you don't need to know everything, you just need to know when to refer around or when to ask for help.

it's not drastically oversimplified. i think the issue is accepting that many of you will have spent years over what is actually necessary to practice your specialty. when in reality, you could have been safely practicing medicine years earlier on your own.

Um no. You can't seriously be posting that a "fresh med student" rotating through a specialty for a mere couple of weeks has better insight on most specialties than people who not only have all also already been through all those med school rotations, but have actually worked in and with these specialties for years afterwards. That's *****ic and pretty obviously you are a troll yanking us around. Up to now, I think some of us have been willing to entertain the idea that you are simply naive, but I think you outed yourself here as pretending to be just a bit too obtuse. Telling residents, fellows and attendings that a fresh med student knows more about medicine than them is too incredulous and makes it too hard to pretend you have a legitimate question rather than simply too much time on your hands. Time to lock this guys account. No ones buying it anymore.

For anyone else legit following the thread: You have minimal perspective in med school. Things arent all as they seem. Theres a reason residncy is regarded as such a steep learning curve. You cant "safely practice medicine" thinking you can just refer everything that comes through the door that worries you. That's really not how it works. You see a patient, refer them someplace, they don't follow up with that referral (most don't -- noncompliance is a real problem) -- guess what, YOU are on the hook for anything you reasonably should have done/diagnosed. it's why most insurance companies don't like to deal with doctors who haven't completed residencies. You inevitably are held to the standards of care of the guys who actually went through 3-7 years of residency and got to learn with a safety net.

 

[rokshana]

it's interesting to see that the level of maturity displayed in posts directly correlates with the degree of training. but, as always, i'm appreciative of the responses.

my understanding reflects a limited understanding of how various fields work? i don't think there's anyone who understands the various fields more than a fresh medical student who has actually just been exposed to all of them. there are plenty of practicing physicians right now who couldn't tell you what a pm&r physician does, what procedures a pain specialist can perform or what procedures a radiologist can perform (non-interventional). the point is, you don't need to know everything, you just need to know when to refer around or when to ask for help.

it's not drastically oversimplified. i think the issue is accepting that many of you will have spent years over what is actually necessary to practice your specialty. when in reality, you could have been safely practicing medicine years earlier on your own.

OMG….where to begin…IF you really are a medical student (and like L2D, i now doubt that), you are probably the most arrogant med student around…

3rd year rotations in no way give you a true picture of what the specialty is really like…if you think internal medicine is just about looking up things and referring whenever you can…well wherever you are going your rotations is pretty subpar…and if you think surgery (or whatever you consider a "technical" specialty) is just about learning technique, then again you are on a sub par rotation.

 

[e30ftw]

my understanding reflects a limited understanding of how various fields work? .

No, your posts display a complete lack of understanding of any field in medicine.

 

[stems]

OMG….where to begin…IF you really are a medical student (and like L2D, i now doubt that), you are probably the most arrogant med student around…

3rd year rotations in no way give you a true picture of what the specialty is really like…if you think internal medicine is just about looking up things and referring whenever you can…well wherever you are going your rotations is pretty subpar…and if you think surgery (or whatever you consider a "technical" specialty) is just about learning technique, then again you are on a sub par rotation.

From his previous posts it appears that psychalot is a recently fired psych intern. Yah you probably are screwed for the long term future and have your big ego to blame for you getting fired and being a failure.

 

[amine2086]

I think everyone should stop responding to OP's comments. He is either a troll or a schizophrenic who is getting his ideas about medicine from the voice of god.

 

[rokshana]

From his previous posts it appears that psychalot is a recently fired psych intern. Yah you probably are screwed for the long term future and have your big ego to blame for you getting fired and being a failure.

ahhh….makes more sense now…
shouldn't have quit dude….if you had finished up the intern year, then at least you would have gotten the license (working a different story).

 

[Top Gun]

it's interesting to see that the level of maturity displayed in posts directly correlates with the degree of training. but, as always, i'm appreciative of the responses.

my understanding reflects a limited understanding of how various fields work? i don't think there's anyone who understands the various fields more than a fresh medical student who has actually just been exposed to all of them. there are plenty of practicing physicians right now who couldn't tell you what a pm&r physician does, what procedures a pain specialist can perform or what procedures a radiologist can perform (non-interventional). the point is, you don't need to know everything, you just need to know when to refer around or when to ask for help.

it's not drastically oversimplified. i think the issue is accepting that many of you will have spent years over what is actually necessary to practice your specialty. when in reality, you could have been safely practicing medicine years earlier on your own.

You really think you understand the various fields of medicine when you have, at most, rotated only a few months in a particular specialty at a time, and often have only rotated 4 weeks in a given specialty? No, you don't. You have no clue what each specialty really does. More importantly, you have no idea of when you can handle something yourself, and when you should refer. You have zero experience in clinical decision-making, which is not clear-cut a huge portion of the time. Practicing now when you haven't even completed an internship is asking for trouble, plain and simple.

Also, you should be sure you understand the impact of a lawsuit. If you make a grievous error because of your inexperience, you will get sued just the same as any other physician. The difference is that you will be more likely to be the subject of a lawsuit than a more experienced, board-certified physician, because you will be more prone to making mistakes. A lawsuit means much more than paying an exorbitant amount of money to the patient and/or his/her family. Your name gets entered in the National Practitioner Data Bank, your malpractice insurance premiums (which are already high due to the fact that you haven't completed training) skyrocket, and you face a tremendous amount of financial and psychological stress. Be sure you can deal with the depression and guilt you will experience when a patient dies because of an error you made. Some physicians who get sued stop practicing for good, take up alcohol and drug use, or even commit suicide.

Stop looking for shortcuts and finish your residency training, so you can practice safely, for the good of the public.

 

[colbgw02]

I think everyone should stop responding to OP's comments. He is either a troll or a schizophrenic who is getting his ideas about medicine from the voice of god.

See, I disagree. Right about...here...

i don't think there's anyone who understands the various fields more than a fresh medical student who has actually just been exposed to all of them.

is the point where it's acceptable to stop responding seriously and start responding with derision. I'll start.

 

[tdram]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just have a question for the posters above - if you really think the licensing system exists to prevent people who are not fully trained from practicing and harming patients, then how would you explain the fact that many states allow nurse practitioners, who don't even come close to having as much training / clinical experience required to obtain a license as a full residency, or even an intern year, to practice independently?

How can you argue that a full residency is needed when the law allows people who have no residency at all, not even an intern year, to practice independently?

If after 4 years of medical school, we are left less qualified than someone who took online courses for a night a week for 5 years, then someone really ripped us off.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Call it marketing or lobbying. Nurses have been pulling the wool over people's eyes for years about their qualifications and the supposed equivalency of training. It would be fair to note that although there are some states which allow NPs independent practice rights their license is not the same as a medical license (for example they can't perform surgery but anyone with a medical license can even if they haven't had any surgical training).

 

[Law2Doc]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just have a question for the posters above - if you really think the licensing system exists to prevent people who are not fully trained from practicing and harming patients, then how would you explain the fact that many states allow nurse practitioners, who don't even come close to having as much training / clinical experience required to obtain a license as a full residency, or even an intern year, to practice independently?

How can you argue that a full residency is needed when the law allows people who have no residency at all, not even an intern year, to practice independently?

If after 4 years of medical school, we are left less qualified than someone who took online courses for a night a week for 5 years, then someone really ripped us off.

I think most people on this thread think that the NPs are walking an extremely dangerous line and in most cases frankly don't have the adequate training to do a lot of what they are legally doing. The country is embracing them due to cost savings, and the public has a nonexistent understanding if the differences in training and just sees someone in a white coat. I expect there will be backlash as soon as some NP misdiagnoses and kills someone of prominence, probably a congressmens child, but until then they are out there. But that doesn't mean it would be smart to require less training on the physician side. We just should do a better job of explaining the differences in training and knowledge base -- it's a matter of branding. Do you want your family member to have the Mercedes of the healthcare system or are you cool with a yugo.

 

[tdram]

I think most people on this thread think that the NPs are walking an extremely dangerous line and in most cases frankly don't have the adequate training to do a lot of what they are legally doing. The country is embracing them due to cost savings, and the public has a nonexistent understanding if the differences in training and just sees someone in a white coat. I expect there will be backlash as soon as some NP misdiagnoses and kills someone of prominence, probably a congressmens child, but until then they are out there. But that doesn't mean it would be smart to require less training on the physician side. We just should do a better job of explaining the differences in training and knowledge base -- it's a matter of branding. Do you want your family member to have the Mercedes of the healthcare system or are you cool with a yugo.

Why are we not informing the public more? How come no physician group has put out a commercial explaining the differences between an MD and an NP? Doctors don't even explain the difference to their patients. What's going on? Where are the billboards, newspaper ads, youtube videos, etc? If we know that the public is being potentially harmed by these providers who we don't believe are well trained, shouldn't it be a main priority of ours to launch a campaign to educate the public?

Maybe the public is informed but doesn't care whether they get the Mercedes or the yugo as long as it gets them where they need to go. In that case, isn't it foolish for us to maintain rigorous standards that the public seemingly doesn't care about or want?

 

[Law2Doc]

Why are we not informing the public more? How come no physician group has put out a commercial explaining the differences between an MD and an NP? Doctors don't even explain the difference to their patients. What's going on? Where are the billboards, newspaper ads, youtube videos, etc? If we know that the public is being potentially harmed by these providers who we don't believe are well trained, shouldn't it be a main priority of ours to launch a campaign to educate the public?

Maybe the public is informed but doesn't care whether they get the Mercedes or the yugo as long as it gets them where they need to go. In that case, isn't it foolish for us to maintain rigorous standards that the public seemingly doesn't care about or want?

I don't have an answer to your first paragraph except that maybe doctors are too focused in rendering care to be bothered by marketing. The AMA never really recovered from losing when they took the position that chiropractors were masquerading as doctors and killing patients, and are now simply gun-shy, I guess.

As for what the public knows, I think it's a given that the public has no clue as to what's involved in becoming a Doctor. Most don't appreciate that the high school grad across the street who is getting a 12 month degree in medical technology isn't in medical school.

 

[tdram]

I don't have an answer to your first paragraph except that maybe doctors are too focused in rendering care to be bothered by marketing. The AMA never really recovered from losing when they took the position that chiropractors were masquerading as doctors and killing patients, and are now simply gun-shy, I guess.

As for what the public knows, I think it's a given that the public has no clue as to what's involved in becoming a Doctor. Most don't appreciate that the high school grad across the street who is getting a 12 month degree in medical technology isn't in medical school.

I think a big reason is that many doctors hire and profit off of NPs. If they put out an ad campaign that makes NPs look less capable, it would likely hurt their bottom line.

 

[Winged Scapula]

A couple of years ago I was contacted by a representative from the AMA to discuss comments I'd made in a survey about why I wasn't a member.

During what I found was a pretty thoughtful conversation, I was told that they were planning a "truth in education"/"know the difference" campaign. I've never seen it implemented and the AMA has continued their very expensive campaign of sending me glossy brochures and promise of free tote bags and the like if I'd just join rather than than actually doing something useful.

Bottom line is that physicians are not well organized, are not collegial in the sense of wanting all physicians to succeed and by valuing money over politics and what's right for our profession have allowed midlevel encroachment.

 

[tdram]

Something should be done about it. It makes absolutely no sense that the government holds one group to high standards and another group to low standards for the same rights and privileges (independent practice of medicine). It makes a mockery out of the medical licensing system. What's the point of licensing at all when the same standards are not upheld for all licensees?

I know that one is medicine and one is nursing, but the rights that come with each license are basically the same, except for surgery. Isn't holding one group of people to a different set of standards than another basically discrimination?

 

[Law2Doc]

... Isn't holding one group of people to a different set of standards than another basically discrimination?

Not discrimination -- there are no protected groups here. Just a Bad decision based on ignorance of the training involved. if it troubles you, organize and make some noise. Saying "something should be done about it" and then not personally doing anything puts you in the 99% of doctors ignoring the problem.

 

[tdram]

Not discrimination -- there are no protected groups here. Just a Bad decision based on ignorance of the training involved. if it troubles you, organize and make some noise. Saying "something should be done about it" and then not personally doing anything puts you in the 99% of doctors ignoring the problem.

I have been making noise and trying my best to convince others to do the same. Most of the people I've talked to totally agree with me when we're talking about it, but then they don't go on to make any noise themselves, because they don't want to rock the boat. They don't want to personally take any risk. Secondly, as a medical student, I have close to zero pull with anybody, and a lot of my classmates are the politically correct type, treating NPs as if they were some protected class of people that we can't criticise in any way for overstepping the bounds of their education.

Would you be willing to make some noise? As I assume you are a practicing physician it would make a much bigger impact than me.