Life Support Certifications

[DTapanes]

Hello All!
First ever post so I just wanted to givesome background before my question.
I'm founder and president of a pre-med group on my campus which is centered around the hands on experience both in the classroom and in the clinic. As a part of the group all the members arerequired to be Basic Life Support (BLS) and Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certified within their first semester of membership. We additionally offer Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS) certification if anyone is interested and may go so far as to offer a full Phlebotomy certification course next semester if we can get enough people interested. So far all the classes have been taught through the American Heart Association and believe it or not we actually have great attendance and a very high group passing rate on allcertification exams. I wanted to ask if anyone out there knew of any other practical or worthwhile certification courses (preferably which were also <$500per person and no longer then 10 days of mandatory classroom attendance or practicum) which might be a good offering for the coming semester for our pre-meds. Any suggestions?
As a secondary question, I would also like to ask if any current medical students, kind enough to look over this forum, have completed these classes prior to their medical education and if they had greatly effected you in anyway? I really look forward to hearing your opinions and any practical advice that could be offered.
Thank you for the consideration and best of luck!
-D

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MedicFL]

Hello All!
First ever post so I just wanted to givesome background before my question.
I’m founder and president of a pre-med group on my campus which is centered around the hands on experience both in the classroom and in the clinic. As a part of the group all the members arerequired to be Basic Life Support (BLS) and Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certified within their first semester of membership. We additionally offer Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS) certification if anyone is interested and may go so far as to offer a full Phlebotomy certification course next semester if we can get enough people interested. So far all the classes have been taught through the American Heart Association and believe it or not we actually have great attendance and a very high group passing rate on allcertification exams. I wanted to ask if anyone out there knew of any other practical or worthwhile certification courses (preferably which were also <$500per person and no longer then 10 days of mandatory classroom attendance or practicum) which might be a good offering for the coming semester for our pre-meds. Any suggestions?
As a secondary question, I would also like to ask if any current medical students, kind enough to look over this forum, have completed these classes prior to their medical education and if they had greatly effected you in anyway? I really look forward to hearing your opinions and any practical advice that could be offered.
Thank you for the consideration and best of luck!
-D

I think anything above BLS is a total waste of time for a bunch of Premeds and a total waste of money. You don't have the training or experience to use the information presented in the ACLS, and PALS course. The Phlebotomy isn't a bad idea as it could lead to a job and some hands on experince. But to just waste your money on a ACLS and PALS cert for no reason is stupid. The certs expire every two years and it is something that you will do in med school anyways.

 

[DTapanes]

Thank you, I appreciate the speedy input MedicFL, but so far we've gotten pretty good feedback on the ACLS from all the students who have taken it. It's a requirement for our group because of the hands-on shadowing program we offer in some local Urgent Care Centers. I'll definitely bring up whatever is posted here during our next meeting though when we plan the Spring semester. Thank you for your thoughts. Anyone else care to comment or share past experiences?
-D

 

[FRONTLINE]

I think anything above an ACLS is overboard. Actually, the ACLS may be overboard as well.

I mean, think about it. The ACLS is a certification that requires the person to know how to use epinephrine, amiodarone, atropine, etc, and be able to know how to read ECGs, and how to successfully revive a patient in CA. Your club is teaching this to pre-meds who really don't have the background or ability to perform any of these things on patients.

I have a non-trad background as an RRT, where I am fully licensed, have a degree, and have all of the certs you mentioned. After going to school for years and having thousands of hands-on clinical hours, I can work in an ICU where these certs may come in handy. I couldn't imagine that any of these skills could be of use to a typical pre-med. Even if you secure a clinical shadowing position in an ER or ICU, it is highly probable that a nurse, RT, PA, physician etc will be taking care of the emergency situation, while the pre-med watches from the hall.

In short, I guess it's okay to have this knowledge in hand, but I think saving the money and time, and applying these toward something more useful toward getting into med-school would be more beneficial. Not hating by the way.

 

[DTapanes]

Thank you for the response and for the info FRONTLINE. I do appreciate the input and I doubt anybody is ever really hating; we're all just trying to help each other out. here lol The classes have so far been on the basis of gaining knowledge and about being prepared in case of an emergency but you do raise valid points. We'd have to weigh out the benefits of the two classes. I know that both in the ER and the ICU (I've worked in both) I've never and would never be given the chance to use the training I have if a situation arose. It's something my group will definitely discuss. Thanks!
-D

 

[MedicFL]

Thank you, I appreciate the speedy input MedicFL, but so far we've gotten pretty good feedback on the ACLS from all the students who have taken it. It's a requirement for our group because of the hands-on shadowing program we offer in some local Urgent Care Centers. I'll definitely bring up whatever is posted here during our next meeting though when we plan the Spring semester. Thank you for your thoughts. Anyone else care to comment or share past experiences?
-D

Even "hands on" shadowing whatever that means, you are not pushing IV meds, reading ECG's, placing ET tubes, running the defib, ect. This is what ACLS and PALS covers, and the course does not teach you those skills, it just refines your process. ACLS and PALS used to have requirements to be able to attend the course. ACLS/PALS also used to be pass/fail when as an instructor, you used to be allowed to fail a student. Now it is test them till they pass. And just because you are certified, you are not licensed to perform any of the procedures that are covered in the course. And I am sure that you have gotten great reviews on premeds who took ACLS they get to play with equipment that they are not trained or experience in how to use.

Please dont take this as a negative in anyway, I think it is a good program you are trying to run. However your members efforts and money would be better served doing other things. To go pay $150+, and another $150-$200 for PALS when it is something they will not even need or use for several years, is a bit of a waste. CPR is good as most clinical settings require everyone who works or shadows in the clinical settings to be BLS certified. The phleb course could be good if they plan on using the course to find a job, but again to just take a course and get a cert doesn't really do you any good nor does it pad your app in anyway.

And in the ER where I still pull a few shifts, sometimes shadowing students get to do CPR, which is why that cert could come in handy. I think that is a good hands on learning experience..

 

[corpsman33]

I think anything above BLS is a total waste of time for a bunch of Premeds and a total waste of money. You don't have the training or experience to use the information presented in the ACLS, and PALS course. The Phlebotomy isn't a bad idea as it could lead to a job and some hands on experince. But to just waste your money on a ACLS and PALS cert for no reason is stupid. The certs expire every two years and it is something that you will do in med school anyways.

I completely disagree.

I am an ACLS Instructor and BLS Instructor, and EKG Instructor, and my experience in these programs is probably the main reason I have received 8 interview invites.

Every interviewer I spoke with was very very impressed that I had such certifications. Obviously it would be better to use them in a clinical setting, but gaining the certifications shows initiative and helps you stand out (huge considering its the little things like this that helps you stand out in a large pool of applicants).

I am sure you will be required to re-certify in ACLS again in medical school, but having that as an EC looks impressive if you ask me. It also means that you have a fundamental understanding of life saving medications, EKGs/telemtry readings, CPR, closed loop communication, mega codes, etc.

Keep it up!!!

 

[corpsman33]

I think anything above an ACLS is overboard. Actually, the ACLS may be overboard as well.

I mean, think about it. The ACLS is a certification that requires the person to know how to use epinephrine, amiodarone, atropine, etc, and be able to know how to read ECGs, and how to successfully revive a patient in CA. Your club is teaching this to pre-meds who really don't have the background or ability to perform any of these things on patients.

I have a non-trad background as an RRT, where I am fully licensed, have a degree, and have all of the certs you mentioned. After going to school for years and having thousands of hands-on clinical hours, I can work in an ICU where these certs may come in handy. I couldn't imagine that any of these skills could be of use to a typical pre-med. Even if you secure a clinical shadowing position in an ER or ICU, it is highly probable that a nurse, RT, PA, physician etc will be taking care of the emergency situation, while the pre-med watches from the hall.

In short, I guess it's okay to have this knowledge in hand, but I think saving the money and time, and applying these toward something more useful toward getting into med-school would be more beneficial. Not hating by the way.

I have 5 years experience in the ICU and 9 years hospital experience and I can tell you first hand that many many nurses, RTs, PAs, and yes even Physicians (often physicians are the worst in ACLS classes and real codes as well - not intensivists and ER docs, but many other specialties that lack the experience) are very inexperienced in regards to codes and life-saving skills in general.

The best way to become familiar with these situations is to become certified, then re-certify over and over again. Frequent training then keeps the skills current, and obviously the best training is a real life situation.

My main point is that many professional clinicians are inexperienced in life-saving skills as well, but as the OP takes initiative he/she will become more comfortable with the skills. This won't be the first or the last time you become certified in ACLS. The certification will be required every 2 years for the remainder of your life as a practicing physician. If anything, the OP will be more comforable with the skills when he/she has to perform them in medical school, which can help alleviate a little stress.

 

[sector9]

I completely disagree.

I am an ACLS Instructor and BLS Instructor, and EKG Instructor, and my experience in these programs is probably the main reason I have received 8 interview invites.

Every interviewer I spoke with was very very impressed that I had such certifications. Obviously it would be better to use them in a clinical setting, but gaining the certifications shows initiative and helps you stand out (huge considering its the little things like this that helps you stand out in a large pool of applicants).

I am sure you will be required to re-certify in ACLS again in medical school, but having that as an EC looks impressive if you ask me. It also means that you have a fundamental understanding of life saving medications, EKGs/telemtry readings, CPR, closed loop communication, mega codes, etc.

Keep it up!!!

Teaching them is way different from just being certified.

The adcomms on this forum have suggested previously to not even list such certifications on an application if you never did anything with them (example http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9701823&highlight=certification#post9701823). I guess the OP's students are kind of using them in a sense, but then again, I disagree with the policy of having pre-medical students being required to have certification to shadow, no matter where it is. In fact, when I was going through my training to be an ER volunteer, they specifically told us that even if we had certification in something (EMT, CPR, etc.) we were NOT allowed to use any of it.

However, I would definitely be supportive of you guys offering classes to your pre-meds as a way for them to find some great clinical experiences. I never joined my school's premed club, but I don't think they did anything like this, so kudos for your initiative

 

[MedicFL]

I completely disagree.

I am an ACLS Instructor and BLS Instructor, and EKG Instructor, and my experience in these programs is probably the main reason I have received 8 interview invites.

Every interviewer I spoke with was very very impressed that I had such certifications. Obviously it would be better to use them in a clinical setting, but gaining the certifications shows initiative and helps you stand out (huge considering its the little things like this that helps you stand out in a large pool of applicants).

I am sure you will be required to re-certify in ACLS again in medical school, but having that as an EC looks impressive if you ask me. It also means that you have a fundamental understanding of life saving medications, EKGs/telemtry readings, CPR, closed loop communication, mega codes, etc.

Keep it up!!!

The certs without experience doesn't mean anything to a ADCOM several of my interviews we discussed my experience as a medic and what I did with my certifications. None of them carried about being a "paper tiger" and getting a bunch of certs your will never use. ACLS and PAL instructor certs are easy to get and are not impressive IMHO, anyone can go pay and take the course. What I bet the adcoms were impressed by is your years of experience. I can probally assure you 99.999 percent that you did not get interviews because of your ACLS and BLS instructor cards.

Back to the topic I think the programs sounds great and the shadowing is a good opp to get some real hands on and some pt contact. I just dont argree with requiring those certs as a condition of membership is all.

 

[compshateme85]

As a paramedic, I don't understand how ACLS and PALS are useful to people who aren't licensed to start IV's, use a monitor and defibrillator, push drugs, and intubate. It's information you will learn eventually, but I don't see shelling out $500 for this as a pre med is going to help your application. If it's just the knowledge that you want, you can buy a ACLS book and everyone can read it, which saves them a lot of money and accomplishes the same thing.

 

[beanbean]

ACLS and PALS are a complete waste of time and money for someone who is premed and not working clinically.

You do not need to be ACLS or PALS certified to volunteer. BLS maybe required depending on th volunteer job.

Offering phlebotomy or and EMT course would be much more useful in helping premeds get work or volunteer experience in medicine.

Honestly, just taking ACLS and PALs to put on your application looks silly.

 

[music2doc]

Thank you, I appreciate the speedy input MedicFL, but so far we've gotten pretty good feedback on the ACLS from all the students who have taken it. It's a requirement for our group because of the hands-on shadowing program we offer in some local Urgent Care Centers. I'll definitely bring up whatever is posted here during our next meeting though when we plan the Spring semester. Thank you for your thoughts. Anyone else care to comment or share past experiences?
-D

LOL... you have got to be kidding me.

Have you actually worked in EMS?!

BLS is overboard for shadowing. (If you are shadowing, you should NOT be touching patients. At my school, if a code goes off and a student shadow happens to be in the room with the physician that student WILL be thrown out of the room and should he or she attempt to touch the patient, that student will never be allowed to shadow again in any of the hospitals with which we have an agreement. Period. It's written into our protocols to protect the school and hospital from liability as well as the integrity of the program. I would expect your school and affiliated hospitals would see this in a similar light. A pre-med shadow or volunteer providing care for a patient is in direct conflict with the standard of care and would be utterly irresponsible of the clinical staff to allow, regardless of level of training, since they have likely not actually tested your skills nor received permission from their insurance/risk mgmt to give said person such responsibility and therefore would not be covered in the case of a suit or of an unfavorable outcome.)

ACLS and PALS require much greater levels of training actually be useful. An EMT-B, Phleb, or CNA license/cert would be reasonable for some pre-meds, but even those are overkill unless you are trying to get a job. PALS and ACLS are not useful in the pre-hospital setting until the EMT-I level of training, which is rarely practiced even in the ER setting.

As has been said already -- getting a cert and not using it is, at best, seen as worthless (and a waste of time and money/resources) and, at worst, can be a red flag. (I have had fellow interviewees tell me their interviewer grilled them about getting XYZ cert and then not using it in a clinical setting. This can rub people the wrong way, so be careful of it.)

 

[Law2Doc]

Having had ACLS/BLS is going to be pretty meaningless to adcoms. Most schools have avenues for all of their clinical year med students to get these certifications, and most residencies require at least the BLS. Since everyone gets these certifications by the time they start med school, most places aren't going to place much of a premium on it for admissions. It may seem pretty cool to you as a premed, but most clinician adcom members just see this as a chore they have to sit through every couple of years.

Someone who has taught these certification courses, or actually used them as an EMT or medic is a different story, but in those cases the certification itself isn't what will impress the adcoms.

 

[COTA2Phys]

I took ACLS because I thought it would be interesting and especially because it was free at my work. I actually really enjoyed the course (especially running the mock codes). However, most of it I've forgotten because I never use it. BLS, in my opinion, would be more useful for the general premed.