list of 3rd tier medical schools

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
A

Arista.MD

Senior Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
122
Reaction score
0
Hello,

Does anyone have a list of so called 3rd tier medical schools? I only have the US news ranking which only goes to 50. I need some back up schools.

Thank you very much.
Members don't see this ad.
 
u need to get a usnews ranking list.

you can either buy an account online on their site, or buy a printed version.
 
The list runs only to 69, doesn't it?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
the most current list ranks up to 67.
 
What about the rest of the schools?
 
is there even such a thing as a third-tier medical school?
 
I only wanted some backup schools besides Finch.
 
Originally posted by dana-doc
I only wanted some backup schools besides Finch.
Click to expand...

There are NO BACKUP MEDICAL SCHOOLS!!!

Unless you discovered the cure for cancer, or demonstrated cold fusion, there are no backup schools for you or for anyone
 
Originally posted by idq1i
There are NO BACKUP MEDICAL SCHOOLS!!!

Unless you discovered the cure for cancer, or demonstrated cold fusion, there are no backup schools for you or for anyone
Click to expand...

For real.


hey Idyq1, how did you manage MS1 with $0 tuition? PM me your secret formula.
 
Originally posted by BushBaby
For real.


hey Idyq1, how did you manage MS1 with $0 tuition? PM me your secret formula.
Click to expand...
HPSP
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Does it really matter? .........Yes

HPSP.......His Pitiful Soul Pawned
 
Health Professions Scholarship Program. Yes, military. Google it for more info.
 
yes, the pay for school, you owe them time....maybe two years for every one of school....or somthing....you get paid like 80K while working for them depending on what you do. No boot camp!
I think you may do residency with them too, not sure....

No a smart money move....but you get to serve the country.
Go USA!
 
Originally posted by hightrump
yes, the pay for school, you owe them time....maybe two years for every one of school....or somthing....you get paid like 80K while working for them depending on what you do. No boot camp!
I think you may do residency with them too, not sure....

No a smart money move....but you get to serve the country.
Go USA!
Click to expand...

1 for 1, not 2 for 1 in terms of obligation. you may not have to do a residency with the army either

To all people saying "not a good money move", I say have fun paying off 200K in loans, plus interest. (while making 30k as a resident in Sh1tkickville Hospital, Podunk, Montana)
 
its a question of freedom.

i, personally would have not taken the military move just because i disagree with its philosophy.

i feel like im selling out or something just for $$.

every med student faces the depths of loans and money problems to begin with. but its worth the journey.
 
Originally posted by kmnfive
its a question of freedom.

i, personally would have not taken the military move just because i disagree with its philosophy.

i feel like im selling out or something just for $$.

every med student faces the depths of loans and money problems to begin with. but its worth the journey.
Click to expand...

Sorry, this is not personally against you, but...

I just love leftist opinions like yours. What the heck are you talking about? You don't agree with the philosophy? What philosophy? Sould we just disband the army, and change the national anthem to "can't we all just get along?"
 
because allot of stupid college students get manipulated into join the military for other motives than of their own.
 
Originally posted by steve007
if you're gonna refer to someone as a leftist wuss, just saying "this isn't personal" doesn't really do the trick. everyone believes in defending our country. not everyone believes in US involvment around the world. some may just dislike the conformity/ loss of self involved in military service. who knows.
Click to expand...

I wasn't calling kmnfive a wuss, I was calling the "down with the military" statements whacko-leftist. (especially when posted by an overzealous premed who has yet to even reach the "need to start studying for the MCAT" stage, but who insists on learning intricate details of residency applications - see other posts)

Btw, you may want to re-think that "everyone" comment. I would like to get some data on California and NYC - the centers of leftism, socialism, ananarchy, and general "nutcase-ism"
 
Originally posted by idq1i
I wasn't calling kmnfive a wuss, I was calling the "down with the military" statements whacko-leftist. (especially when posted by an overzealous premed who has yet to even reach the "need to start studying for the MCAT" stage, but who insists on learning intricate details of residency applications - see other posts)
Click to expand...


I hate to get involved in this little dispute, but I have not seen anyone making any "down with the military" statements here; just questioning the ostensible pros of using military money to fund an education. Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension.
 
I have several friends who used the military "scholarship" to pay for their medical school educations, and they ended up regretting it. Sure, you'll come out with no debt, but the military will control not only what residency you'll get (depending on whether they have a need for a particular specialty in the military), but also how much you'll get paid, which is way below what the average physician gets compensated. In the end, the perceived advantage of going commando is not what it's cracked up to be. Just my two cents.
 
Exactly the residency choice i belive is only up to you if you want to do somthing that they dont have spots for...like neurosurg of somthing. So you dont have to actualy change your proffession for them, but depending on the residency you may wind up an underqualified doctor. I dont know...but i could imagine alot of places they might want to send you that would be bad bad bad.

1 for 1.....not including the residency time correct?
Even if i grant you that the extra dough in residency compensates for the crappy location, do you really think that in the next four years of service they wont havemade their money back in spades from you?

they will pay you around 80K i belive right? unless you are family practice, you should be making well over 50K a year more than that in the real world....and god help you if you want to do surgery....you might end up making the military a million dollars by the time you are free from them.

If you are family practice....fine.....if you are going to sacrifice to serve your county, better than fine...but the way it looks on your signature...you are touting yourself as a shrewd (sp?) bussiness man. You may be doing a great thing, and i thnk you are, but not a profitable thing.
 
Originally posted by hightrump

If you are family practice....fine.....if you are going to sacrifice to serve your county, better than fine...but the way it looks on your signature...you are touting yourself as a shrewd (sp?) bussiness man. You may be doing a great thing, and i thnk you are, but not a profitable thing.
Click to expand...

I am certainly not a part of the "shrewd businessman" group. My sig represents my happiness with not having to sell my soul to the bank for 200k+interest. My relation with the military is mutualistic - they provide money to finance my education, and in return I will provide them with service they require. The four years that I will need to work for the Army as an attending is more than fair, and it will allow me to do some good for the country. The relation that most of you will have with a bank is almost parasitic.

I will reserve my judgement about residency until I actually get to that point in my education. I'd recommend you do the same until you at least take your step 1, and get your score

I am not going to medical school to become a billionaire. I don't even have the desire to have a private office 15 years from now. I also find it rather humorous that so many premeds are discussing their incomes as physicians without even getting into school first
 
Originally posted by promethius
I have several friends who used the military "scholarship" to pay for their medical school educations, and they ended up regretting it. Sure, you'll come out with no debt, but the military will control not only what residency you'll get (depending on whether they have a need for a particular specialty in the military), but also how much you'll get paid, which is way below what the average physician gets compensated. In the end, the perceived advantage of going commando is not what it's cracked up to be. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

Your "several friends" are just a tiny % of people going through the system. I may also regret my decision at some point. In that case, I'll just separate after my obligation is over.

I also know a few higher-ups in the military medical branch (O-5 and higher) that thoroughly enjoy their careers and couldn't see themselves doing anything else.
 
it's not a good deal financially, otherwise everyone would try to do it. I called the uniformed health services school and they told me it would cost me 7 years after residency...those are like 7 years of good income wasted. I am not willing to take that hit. i can't imagine why anyone would do it.

i am not leftist, but killing people who did not hurt you is wrong. just because someone hates you it does not give you the right to kill them. also, the US screws over plenty of countries and people, so they should not be disgruntled when others hate them.
 
Do you not get paid during those 7 years? Plus wouldn't most other doctors be using those 7 years to pay off their loans?
 
To judoka

USUHS is for only for military medical career tracks. That's why I never applied.

I am writing about HPSP. It gives you options to go either way. Once again, hold off on talking about your future income without taking one class, or taking the step1
 
"but killing people who did not hurt you is wrong."

Mititary doctors dont kill anyone. Besides it is BECAUSE we have a strong military that more people are not killed. I this isreal wouldnt have been blown off the map if it wasnt for their military defence? Same for us.

" I will reserve my judgement about residency until I actually get to that point in my education. I'd recommend you do the same until you at least take your step 1, and get your score

I am not going to medical school to become a billionaire. I don't even have the desire to have a private office 15 years from now. I also find it rather humorous that so many premeds are discussing their incomes as physicians without even getting into school first"

The fact is, if you wait untill your in your third year of med school to think about residency, you probably didnt study to much for your usmle test and all of your residency choices will be pretty well set.

Why would i not go to a carrebian med school? Becasue im thinking about my life 5 years down the road.

Why do i want to make the most money i ethicaly can? Because Im thinking of my life 30 and 40 years from now when I will have to support my aging parents, pay for my childrens eduaction and still afford my wife.

You have to think long term.....
 
Originally posted by Megalofyia
Do you not get paid during those 7 years? Plus wouldn't most other doctors be using those 7 years to pay off their loans?
Click to expand...

You get paid 35k a year while in school as well, 55K a year as a resident, and up to 160 as an attending (depends on your specialty)

Save your breath. Most of people posting in this thread apparently expect to start making 200k straight out of school
 
Originally posted by hightrump
"but killing people who did not hurt you is wrong."

Mititary doctors dont kill anyone. Besides it is BECAUSE we have a strong military that more people are not killed. I this isreal wouldnt have been blown off the map if it wasnt for their military defence? Same for us.

Click to expand...

THANK YOU

As a matter of fact, did you follow the last war? Those doctors took care of enemy combatants as well
 
Besides I think it odd the way you view the relationship between a lender and borower.yeah, you owe them. But if you dont pay them they dont throw you in jail like the military will if you dont pay them their time back. They dont own your ass like the military will. Dont be fooled, officer or not, your butt is the governments.

Another monetary disadvantage (if your into money) is that civilian residency is where you learn how to run a bussiness. Career military people know jack about starting a private practice.
They dont teach it in med school.
I dont mean to sound negative though, if the shlt isnt important to you, you will be happy happy.

My best friend is a damned genius (almost as smart as....well n/m)
He could have done anything he wanted. Could have made millions. But he wants to run a platoon of soldiers. So he went to west point and is going to be a captian in the army. He doesnt want to be in politics or be a general, just have 10-20 men who he would die for and how would do the same for him.
Far-phucking-out huh. Hell of a different life, but a good one to be sure.
 
Originally posted by hightrump
Another monetary disadvantage (if your into money) is that civilian residency is where you learn how to run a bussiness. Career military people know jack about starting a private practice.
They dont teach it in med school.
I dont mean to sound negative though, if the shlt isnt important to you, you will be happy happy.
Click to expand...

Exactly! If I wanted to learn business, I would have gone to Stern to get my MBA. I don't want to be a businessman. I want a rewarding career as a medical specialist (non IM/FP)

As an HPSP officer, I also have a decent shot to do a civilian residency (which I will try to do)
 
"Most of people posting in this thread apparently expect to start making 200k straight out of school"

Again i realize that money is not a big motivator for you.
But making 500K right out of residency is totaly possible.
Everyone gets the shaft in residency but once your out the money will drown you if you are in a lucrative specialty. Personaly I want a million a year. You only live once, and im not comprimising on what I want.
 
Originally posted by hightrump
"Most of people posting in this thread apparently expect to start making 200k straight out of school"

Again i realize that money is not a big motivator for you.
But making 500K right out of residency is totaly possible.
Everyone gets the shaft in residency but once your out the money will drown you if you are in a lucrative specialty. Personaly I want a million a year. You only live once, and im not comprimising on what I want.
Click to expand...

Post-residency, NO WAY. Post-fellowship, double-boarding..... maybe

We can all dream, though ;)
 
no no not imediatly, i mean that my goal. it may take 6 or so years into my practice depending on what specialty I end up doing.

Either Plasics, or Ortho-spine maybe ped-surg can i love kids but will take a pay hit.

I think some specialties a few year established and working hard can make a million just by working hard and doing alot of procedures. But the real trick is bringing in multiple partners and taking a cut from everything they make because you own the bussiness. Then if your super good you can use that income to invest.

I mean who on earth has the poential to have a hundred or more thousand dollard of money that they can afford to lose?

A entrepeneuring bussiness major gets out of college, borrows money and then starts a bussiness. If it fails, its his ass. He get ONE SHOT and if he screws it up or has bad luck the bank wont touch him again. I mean once your established you can get front money and a failure wont sink you, but initialy you are on thin ice.

A doc on the other hand can fund himself...year after year...untill somthing hits. I get all warm and fuzzy thinking about it.

I used to sell golf balls as a kid to golfers. I would swim in lakes a dive for the balls, clean them up, and then sell them for a buck or so each. I loved it. I think the business side of medicine will do the same thing for me.
 
http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

There is an oft-quoted source for incomes.
Its a little out of date though. And there are no ortho sub speciaties in there little spine and hand. Or radiology breakdowns for invasive ect. The averages for those speciaties are a good bit higher than for their parent groups.

Those cardiovasc surg. Are raking some dough in. Could you imagine tax on that?! I mean there are way around it, depending on how you set up your pracitce..you can write off stuff like cars and houses alot of the time too. But youll still be paying MAD taxes on that salary.
 
That list is really deceiving

It's gross compensation, which excludes all expenses.

Take out taxes, malpractice, office expenses.......... i bet that amount drops 60+%
 
A first class thread hijacking! I am HPSP and happy with my decision thus far. Yippee skippee.
 
It actually more complex that even that.

That is before taxe but after malpractice and expenses.

But what makes it more complicated is that that is what doctors claim their SALARY is. But things like a house payment which the bussiness my own would not be shown in those numbers.

Essensialy it works like this in a private practice.

Your bussiness has its' total gross income. The bussiness pays your employees and gives them health insurance and benifits. YOU are an "employee" of your business and as such you are able to have the bussiness pay for the benifits such as health for your entire family. The bussiness pays your malpractice as well. You set your own salary since you are in charge but the higher your salary the more you lose to income tax. So you let the bussiness pay for everything (as long as its not illegal). So you can have paid employee vacations. of course you ge the sweetest vacation. The bussiness has cash which it must invest...so the bussiness buys real estate which you put your house on if you like. but you dont pay income tax in that beacuse its not"your" money.

The ultiate goal of any business owner is to have a 0 salary and have the bussiness own everything.

So when a doc says he makes 200K a year, if he is smart, his house and car and vacations and insurance and all sorts of other things are aready paid for before he gets his 200K and before the gov gets their 35% fo his 200K.

Two people may have the same gross bussiness income but one person lead a VASTLY better life because he knows how to use the tax and bussiness laws to his advantage.

I, hightrump, am not responsible for any misspellings.
 
:A first class thread hijacking! I am HPSP and happy with my decision thus far. Yippee skippee."

:clap: :clap: Ha, i just realized that. we hijacked the crap out of this thing.

Maybe we should make it its owna nd we would get more participation?
 
Originally posted by hightrump
"Most of people posting in this thread apparently expect to start making 200k straight out of school"

Again i realize that money is not a big motivator for you.
But making 500K right out of residency is totaly possible.
Everyone gets the shaft in residency but once your out the money will drown you if you are in a lucrative specialty. Personaly I want a million a year. You only live once, and im not comprimising on what I want.
Click to expand...

Money IS a big motivator for alot of people (in and out of medicine).

I want to make a lot of money too, I just don't really want to work too hard for it. :D
 
Originally posted by hightrump
The ultiate goal of any business owner is to have a 0 salary and have the bussiness own everything.

Two people may have the same gross bussiness income but one person lead a VASTLY better life because he knows how to use the tax and bussiness laws to his advantage.
Click to expand...

Precisely. These are the benefits of incorporating, and then employing yourself. An added benefit would be to incorporate somewhere else, perhaps the Cayman Islands, or Bermuda, or Switzerland, to have a more favorable tax exposure. Another great way to limit exposure, if you have enough dough, is to establish blind trusts. I commend hightrump for pointing this out, because this avenue goes unnoticed in the medical world, but is commonplace in financial circles.
 
Originally posted by idq1i
I wasn't calling kmnfive a wuss, I was calling the "down with the military" statements whacko-leftist. (especially when posted by an overzealous premed who has yet to even reach the "need to start studying for the MCAT" stage, but who insists on learning intricate details of residency applications - see other posts)

Btw, you may want to re-think that "everyone" comment. I would like to get some data on California and NYC - the centers of leftism, socialism, ananarchy, and general "nutcase-ism"
Click to expand...
Oh wow, "nutcase-ism"- even better than "wuss" :rolleyes:

You might want to take a step back and grow up a bit. "Leftism" = "nutcase-ism" = you're going to be in for some harsh reality checks. Not everyone in the military is politically to the right. In fact, I have SERIOUSLY considered HPSP; it's not entirely off my radar at this point. And I lean quite heavily to the left politically, as have MOST of my military friends.

Funny how "rightists" (and other such ignorant-ists- how's that feel??) often equate "leftism" with anarchy. This, when supposedly republican = less government, and democrat = more government (as a teen in the Reagan era, I beg to differ, but that's a whole other ball of wax). Do people even know what the words they use (or should that be "words"?) mean??? :rolleyes:

Oh but wait, you said "ananarchy"- I guess that means anarchists are "anti-nutcase-ists"??? :rolleyes: :laugh:

That said, I think HPSP is a wonderful option FOR SOME. It definitely isn't entirely an economic choice. One of the attractions for me has been that from what I've seen (admittedly not enough), military residencies such as surgery are often more sane than in the civilian world. Also, I was a military dependant that saw the desperate need for GOOD doctors in the military.

As far as economics go, HPSP residents definitely do get paid more than civilians, even if they're doing a civilian residency. You also have to take into consideration how much you save on attending school as well as the stipend. If someone wants to do the math, it's 4 years of payback after residency (unless you do a really long residency, in which case the payback length increases) at, I think, captain's (??) pay (plus housing allowance, plus dependant allowances, plus bonuses, etc.). So adjust that to however much less you would make in a civilian residency, plus cost of schooling &c., and you'll get a better picture of the economics.

I personally think the security of HPSP (financially) in the beginning is wonderful. However, the lack of freedom in terms of location is a big one. If I could have a written guarantee that I would end up doing my entire military service, including residency, at Tripler Army Medical Center, I would do it in a heartbeat. But that isn't happening, so I'm waiting at least until I decide on my specialty.
 
Originally posted by HouseHead
Funny how "rightists" (and other such ignorant-ists- how's that feel??) often equate "leftism" with anarchy. This, when supposedly republican = less government, and democrat = more government (as a teen in the Reagan era, I beg to differ, but that's a whole other ball of wax). Do people even know what the words they use (or should that be "words"?) mean??? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I didn't equate the three. I said that all three fall in the nutcase-ism category in my book. Thanks for defining the terms for me - I can now see the light
 
I work at the Bethesda Naval Base for a Captain (HPSP) in the Navy... He has shed a lot of light on millitary medicine and I have come to appreciate it more. My roommate interviewed there this past winter and the statistics of people who end up staying in the military after their service is finished is very high (my boss also noted that maybe people feel they regret it during a time, but in hindsight, they see the amazing opportunity it provided for them). I've also found that the training received during residency is better than some civilian residencies unless you are looking to going into research. Even so, you can be granted leave to take time for a residency more appropriate for research (my boss did). I think the decision to go into military medicine, if your ambition is more than just financial, is an excellent choice.

I'm actually embarrassed and frightened that there is so much talk of salary of future doctors. Sure, I know I'll be neck high in debt coming out, but I am not going to cloud my thoughts with the most lucrative residencies and salaries and forget my purpose and desire to pursue medicine.

Good luck everyone.
 
ankitovich & hightrump:

Although I definitely agree with you both on sheltering your incomes by legitimately funding your lifestyle and needs in pretax dollars, I think you may be looking past a couple of items.

C Corps are taxed on profits and then the individual receiving compensation is taxed again which results in double taxation to a C corp owner(s).

S Corps are only single taxed to the owner(s) but every pro must have a con. S corps are not allowed to accumulate profits, all profits must be paid out annually. Other issues exist also, but it is still an effective tool.

Business expenses must have a legitimate business purpose to endure IRS scrutiny. Sure you can have a boat to entertain other Doc's that would refer biz to you and write it off. Sure you can have RE investments, but the property would have to have income of some sort, otherwise it is not an investment. The best advice in the mangled mess we call taxes is find the best CPA & financial attorney available and pay them well to avoid paying more than you fair share of taxes.

I don't advocate cheating uncle sam, only leveraging the opportunities he has made available. Money was not my primary motivation for a medicine, but I think it is foolish to condem others for considering it. Personally, I owe my familly the consideration. Why not do something you love & be well compensated?

And yes, I do have an expectation of making a minimum of $300K right out of residency based on todays dollars. Inflation adjusted for 10 years, it will be even more $$$. Money didn't determine my interests, but it sure is a consideration. As a numbers guy, I determined that I could pay off the ~$125 - $175K debt and accrued interest in about 3 years post residency at $5K / month.

Money is a tool and can be used in positive or negative ways. Money is not the root of all evil, it is "the love of money."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

E
anyone with a disability applied to top tier medical schools?
Replies
3
Views
371
cj_cregg
cj_cregg
J
  • Locked
would quinnipiac be considered a low tier or mid tier program?
Replies
14
Views
1K
wysdoc
wysdoc
D
What are the "tiers" for undergrad schools?
Replies
10
Views
1K
obiwan
obiwan
T
Full tuition merit scholarships? (at mid/low tier medical schools)
Replies
9
Views
3K
Rheopecty
Rheopecty
D
Tier list for clinical experience
Replies
8
Views
2K
deleted1091712
D
Top