Local vet clinic bans 3 breeds... WHAT?!

[PrimalMU]

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I can't believe this. I just found out that a local vet clinic has decided to stop accepting new rottweiler, pit bull, and American bulldog patients! What has this idiotic hysteria come to when the industry itself begins enacting breed-specific bans? I am absolutely dumbfounded right now...

😕

 

[Bearby]

I can't believe this. I just found out that a local vet clinic has decided to stop accepting new rottweiler, pit bull, and American bulldog patients! What has this idiotic hysteria come to when the industry itself begins enacting breed-specific bans? I am absolutely dumbfounded right now...

😕

While I think it's kind of ridiculous to ban those breeds, too, it's each practicioners own choice as to what they choose to treat. How is not treating pit bulls any different than not treating pocket pets, or exotics? There are cat only clinics, is there a problem with vets only wanting to work on cats? The clinic I work at currently only does dogs and cats. Like I said, I'm not supporting the ban, but I don't think it's really as much of a mindblowing idea as you're making it out to be.

 

[PrimalMU]

This isn't a business decision, it is an ethical (or rather, unethical) one.

 

[breenie]

That's silly. Everyone knows the REAL vicious dogs are the little ones. Min Pins can be terrifying!

Kidding kidding. While I think that's kind of crummy... maybe they had some reasons? Rather than declining specific clients with aggressive/difficult to treat dogs, perhaps they thought it'd be easier to avoid bad situations by just declining to treat specific breeds so it didn't become a "personal" issue?

I don't know. I'm not trying to say it's a great idea, just trying to think of what the best possible reasoning behind it was. I'd be curious to hear their explanation?

 

[Polar Opposite]

While I think it's kind of ridiculous to ban those breeds, too, it's each practicioners own choice as to what they choose to treat. How is not treating pit bulls any different than not treating pocket pets, or exotics? There are cat only clinics, is there a problem with vets only wanting to work on cats? The clinic I work at currently only does dogs and cats. Like I said, I'm not supporting the ban, but I don't think it's really as much of a mindblowing idea as you're making it out to be.

I agree that it is every practitioner's right to choose the patient's they are comfortable treating. That being said, I think this ban is ridiculous. Most clinicians do not treat exotics or pocket pets because of lack of knowledge/experience in that area not the "hubbub" surrounding the particular animal/breed. A pitbull and a yorkie with the same medical condition will be treated in the same way--and, additionally, both have the potential of being aggressive in stressful situations. To turn away certain breeds would be like a human ER turning away certain ethnic minorities...

 

[shortnsweet]

Check out the UK Dangerous Dogs Act if that local clinic ban shocks you. The entire UK is trying to phase out all of those breeds plus some...And they just added to the rules/list this year...ugh.

Mind boggling how they can blame an entire breed....so when a miniature poodle bites a child...you know it goes straight to the list of "dangerous dogs"...😕

 

[Bearby]

I agree that it is every practitioner's right to choose the patient's they are comfortable treating. That being said, I think this ban is ridiculous. Most clinicians do not treat exotics or pocket pets because of lack of knowledge/experience in that area not the "hubbub" surrounding the particular animal/breed. A pitbull and a yorkie with the same medical condition will be treated in the same way--and, additionally, both have the potential of being aggressive in stressful situations. To turn away certain breeds would be like a human ER turning away certain ethnic minorities...

I definitely agree that it's ridiculous. I was just trying to show the other side of the argument. Plus, I've had way more chihuahua's try to bite me than the three breeds being banned here combined.

 

[August24]

I have no idea, maybe it's to save money on insurance? Less liability if there are not "dangerous" breeds present to attack patients/patrons?

 

[Bearby]

This isn't a business decision, it is an ethical (or rather, unethical) one.

I'm interested in how you see this as not being a business decision. I think any decision that affects the income and reputation of a business is classified as a business decisionI see it going one of two ways.

1) People who are afraid of those breeds, and there are a lot of those people, are going to be relieved that when they bring in Fluffy and Spot, they won't have to see them. I love pits and think it's silly when people think they're aggressive towards people, but a large number of them are aggressive towards other dogs, so I can see how it could be a relief to some dog owners. Especially those who have had a bad experience with a pit or rottie or american bulldog in the past. The client base could become bigger by making the clients who aren't comfortable with the breeds more likely to come to the clinic

2) They run their business into the ground because now those people who have pits, rotties, am. bulldogs don't bring any of their other pets to this particular clinic either. Many families who own a pet own more than one. If this is the case, why would a client bring one of their pets to one vet and the other to another?

I'm interested to see how this pans out.

 

[EnvyPointers]

That's silly. Everyone knows the REAL vicious dogs are the little ones. Min Pins can be terrifying!

Hahaha! Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Polar Opposite]

I definitely agree that it's ridiculous. I was just trying to show the other side of the argument. Plus, I've had way more chihuahua's try to bite me than the three breeds being banned here combined.

LOL...I think a lot of us are a member of the "I survived a chihuahua attack" club 🙄

 

[DVMDream]

1) People who are afraid of those breeds, and there are a lot of those people, are going to be relieved that when they bring in Fluffy and Spot, they won't have to see them. I love pits and think it's silly when people think they're aggressive towards people, but a large number of them are aggressive towards other dogs, so I can see how it could be a relief to some dog owners. Especially those who have had a bad experience with a pit or rottie or american bulldog in the past. The client base could become bigger by making the clients who aren't comfortable with the breeds more likely to come to the clinic

This is true. Many of those breeds are dog aggressive, but most of the clients that we see who have dogs of these breeds that are aggressive towards other dogs try to make their appointment when the least number of other clients are there or we will fit them in between two cat appointments. We also put them into an exam room immediately so if another dog does walk in there is no danger. I have yet to see a client with a small dog afraid to bring their dog to the vet because there are bigger, "bully" breeds in the waiting room. Most of them are actually very interested in talking to those people and petting the big dogs. And if we realize a client has a dog aggressive dog but they did not inform us then we make sure to put a warning in their file so the next time they make an appointment we can be sure to make it at the right time and fit them in when the clinic will not be as busy. It is about trying to avoid the problem as a responsible clinic/client. Attempts can be made to make sure everyone in the clinic is safe. IMO, if I were to ban any breed from being seen at my clinic it would be those small, yappy dogs. I have seen many more chihuahuas, shih tzus, lhasa apso's, jack russels, etc. try to bite than I have rotties, am. staffordshire terriers, am. bulldogs, etc try to bite.

 

[PrimalMU]

This is true. Many of those breeds are dog aggressive, but most of the clients that we see who have dogs of these breeds that are aggressive towards other dogs try to make their appointment when the least number of other clients are there or we will fit them in between two cat appointments. We also put them into an exam room immediately so if another dog does walk in there is no danger. I have yet to see a client with a small dog afraid to bring their dog to the vet because there are bigger, "bully" breeds in the waiting room. Most of them are actually very interested in talking to those people and petting the big dogs. And if we realize a client has a dog aggressive dog but they did not inform us then we make sure to put a warning in their file so the next time they make an appointment we can be sure to make it at the right time and fit them in when the clinic will not be as busy. It is about trying to avoid the problem as a responsible clinic/client. Attempts can be made to make sure everyone in the clinic is safe. IMO, if I were to ban any breed from being seen at my clinic it would be those small, yappy dogs. I have seen many more chihuahuas, shih tzus, lhasa apso's, jack russels, etc. try to bite than I have rotties, am. staffordshire terriers, am. bulldogs, etc try to bite.

+1

I've never even heard of the possibility of a client not coming to our hospital for fear that they might encounter a "bully breed."

As far as the business vs ethical argument, I forgot to mention that they are not turning away their current rottweiler, pit bull, or american bulldog patients, only new ones. Thus, it is an ethical issue (one that may or may not be linked to a recent piece of legislation banning pit bulls in the county -- I'm not sure if it even passed, so I will do some research and get back to you all).

By the way, I've started a Facebook group against this if anyone would like to join.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=117174201636210

 

[Willowhand]

+1
As far as the business vs ethical argument, I forgot to mention that they are not turning away their current rottweiler, pit bull, or american bulldog patients, only new ones. Thus, it is an ethical issue (one that may or may not be linked to a recent piece of legislation banning pit bulls in the county -- I'm not sure if it even passed, so I will do some research and get back to you all).

Making a transition by turning away new clients (and not throwing out current ones) is a pretty standard business decision. I think it would be unethical if, say, they turned away a rottie that needed emergency care but otherwise it's really up to them. I'm not saying I would do it, but perhaps they have their reasons (insurance could very well be one). Perhaps you should send them a letter expressing your concerns and see if you can find out their reasoning.

 

[nitheninny]

I definitely don't agree with breed bans, but in the case of an individual clinic, it may be more than just the breed. Especially if you live in a smaller area with fewer vets. Think about what it might be like if there's say a pitbull breeder in the area, and every pitbull that comes into the clinic is aggressive. The vet may be making this decision because chances are, any pitbull that walks through the door will be that way. It's unlikely, but we just don't know enough details about this decision to jump immediately to the "EVERYONE HATES THESE BREEDS FOR NO REASON" line of thinking.

That being said, with how unlikely the above circumstances are with all three of those breeds, it also raises other questions. Maybe it's a small clinic with only a few techs who can handle restraining those bigger dogs, and so the more aggressive little dogs are ok because they can be restrained more easily (though I always found it harder to restrain those guys).

I'm curious to know how many members of this clinic's staff have been bitten/had near misses with these breeds. It'd be interesting to hear what made them decide to ban these dogs.

 

[jpeterman13]

I'm curious to know how many members of this clinic's staff have been bitten/had near misses with these breeds. It'd be interesting to hear what made them decide to ban these dogs.

Well, I can almost assure you that the owner of this practice didn't just wake up one morning and say "I don't want to see any rotties, pits, or am. bulldogs anymore." There is a reason. You'd think that, since those are fairly popular breeds, they would want to keep those clients to increase revenue. So there is a reason...

 

[nitheninny]

Well, I can almost assure you that the owner of this practice didn't just wake up one morning and say "I don't want to see any rotties, pits, or am. bulldogs anymore." There is a reason. You'd think that, since those are fairly popular breeds, they would want to keep those clients to increase revenue. So there is a reason...

That was the point of my post. There is obviously a reason behind it, but my point is that it may not be as simple as the vet writing these dogs (as a breed, not individuals) off as aggressive. That may be the case, but it's impossible to say without knowing more. I was just trying to think of other reasons.

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

It is true that a veterinarian can choose which species they would like to treat. However, in this case, the AVMA opposes breed specific legislation, so any veterinarian who discriminates against seeing specific breeds is going against the generally accepted standard. It's like a veterinarian agreeing to perform cosmetic ear cropping; it will probably negatively affect his or her reputation among other veterinarians. Unfortunately, Joe Blow Public is less likely to care unless it directly affects them.

That said, I think it's a bad idea overall to refuse to see certain breeds. I know many more nice Rotties and American bulldogs than evil ones, and the pit bulls I know are generally pretty nice (although I'm from Ohio, where breed specific laws run rampant, so my sample size is pretty small).

 

[StartingoverVet]

Making a transition by turning away new clients (and not throwing out current ones) is a pretty standard business decision. I think it would be unethical if, say, they turned away a rottie that needed emergency care but otherwise it's really up to them. I'm not saying I would do it, but perhaps they have their reasons (insurance could very well be one). Perhaps you should send them a letter expressing your concerns and see if you can find out their reasoning.

Completely agree. There is no ethical dilemma here. You may not like the decision but it is not like there is any harm being done to these animals by this particular decision. Turning away an emergency case would be completely different.

You can complain all you like about the unfair stigma of these dogs, but some people are seriously afraid of them, and in certain areas of the country for very good reason. If you own a clinic and have bad experiences (attacks, lawsuits, insurance increases), you have every right to do what is best for you and the majority of your patients.

For those of you who are so horrified, pray more clinics ban these breeds and then you can become a specialist clinic in allegedly agressive breeds!

 

[peachy3214]

The vet that I work for will not accept any pit bulls at the clinic and in my opinion for very good reason. While I do know people that are responsible dog owners that have very loving pit bulls....the clinic is located in an area were having pit bulls for the "thug mentality" is very popular and as a result the owners have not spent time insuring that the dog is not aggressive because that is what they are going for. In this situation it was the only thing that could be done to protect your staff, your clients, and yourself. The vet even owns two pits herself! The problem is bad owners not bad dogs and while there are small dogs that are just as nasty, they will never cause as much damage and therefore are not as dangerous.


and that is very poorly written but I'm typing it on my phone.

 

[jpeterman13]

The vet that I work for will not accept any pit bulls at the clinic and in my opinion for very good reason. While I do know people that are responsible dog owners that have very loving pit bulls....the clinic is located in an area were having pit bulls for the "thug mentality" is very popular and as a result the owners have not spent time insuring that the dog is not aggressive because that is what they are going for. In this situation it was the only thing that could be done to protect your staff, your clients, and yourself. The vet even owns two pits herself! The problem is bad owners not bad dogs and while there are small dogs that are just as nasty, they will never cause as much damage and therefore are not as dangerous.


and that is very poorly written but I'm typing it on my phone.

👍

 

[eventualeventer]

So what happens when a Pit or Rottie gets HBC nearby and the owners rush it to them, the nearest vet clinic, in a panic? I mean, if it were a tarsier or armadillo, the vet could say that they do not feel qualified to treat it, but here they would be ethically obligated to treat it. I'm not saying that this means that they have an obligation to treat the ear crusties on every ill-tempered beast in town, but it is something to think about. Ultimately, though, it's up to the vet whether they want to limit their routine practice to blue merle Kelpies or goldfish under the age of 3, as long as they fulfill their ethical obligations to animals/people in need.

 

[sumstorm]

As long as they stabilize an emergency, their practice decisions are just that.

There will be folks who object; I wouldn't take my animals to a vet that bans breeds, because I disagree with it. However, I do know a vet (small rural area) that does not treat wolf hybrids or weims. he strongly disagrees with the local breeders of these animals (typically the source) and when someone contacts his clinic, they explain that the breeder's philosophy and the vets' philosophy do not match up and he is unwilling to deal with the abundant issues of the animals from that breeder, and they refer to another clinic. Partly this is because the weim breeder once claimed this vet ok'd a litter when no such thing happened.

I don't see it as unethical. I strongly believe we have the right to refuse non-emergency treatment to anyone and we have an obligation to protect ourselves, our staff, and our clients.

 

[oilidigigoat]

I used to work in a clinic where we saw VERY agressive dogs daily. I got attacked by a pitbull at work and went to the emergnecy room. The dog gave no warning and the owner didn't say anything about the dog being aggressive. So yeah they very well may be in an area where owners aren't very responsible.

 

[that redhead]

I'm on the fence about this. I can definitely see where you're coming from: it seems wrong to turn away a very select few breeds of dog. However, I can also see the other side of the argument. Before I could really make a decision about how I feel about their decision, I would want to know what prompted this. Did they have clients complaining about all of the Rotties biting people? Do the people in the area use pitbulls for fighting? etc. While I think its unfortunate that breed stigmas still carry on, there must be a reason for this other than "I hate pitbulls" or whatever breed they decide to ban.

The bottom line to me is: will they still stabilize an emergency case? If so, I don't see the problem with turning away breeds you do not feel comfortable treating, even if I do think its a bit silly.

 

[pibbles]

I used to work in a clinic where we saw VERY agressive dogs daily. I got attacked by a pitbull at work and went to the emergnecy room. The dog gave no warning and the owner didn't say anything about the dog being aggressive. So yeah they very well may be in an area where owners aren't very responsible.

I'm sorry to hear about your injuries. I hope one negative encounter hasn't soiled your opinion of an entire breed of dog.

However, to say a specific area is full of irresponsible owners is really going out on a limb. Any city or town is going to have both responsible and irresponsible owners, period. The problem that I have with this argument is that you are implying that only pit bull dog owners are irresponsible, and that it's ok for cocker spaniel and golden retriever owners to be irresponsible because those dogs aren't "dangerous." Any dog can be dangerous. Whether or not this is what you implied, this is the way the general public see things. So once again, this is an argument regarding breed discrimination, even if it is a personal or business decision.

I am, of course, a HUGE advocate of pibbles (pet name for pit bull dogs), and may even be slightly biased because I own one and foster more. This veterinarian is certainly not helping show the breed in a positive light. Veterinarians are one of the most trusted professionals in any community (can't find the source for that, but in a lecture at APVMA Symposium, I believe they were ranked 2nd or 3rd), so if this veterinarian is agreeing that pit bull dogs are dangerous, then everyone will give in to the hysteria.



Not that dogs can be compared to humans, but doctor's don't make rules saying that their clinic will no longer see children from troubled homes because their parents are irresponsible and the child could be unpredictable. And while it is the veterinarian's decision what he/she wants to treat, he is going against AVMA policy. His/her staff should be properly trained in animal handling and should also know that there are certain occupational hazardous when working with any type of animal. A tech at our clinical required facial reconstruction surgery after being bit by a miniature schnauzer that she was restraining improperly. Our clinic did not ban schnauzers or any other breed after this incident, but we were all required to go through an animal handling and behavior workshop. Education is the key, and fear due to ignorance will only cause more accidents and more clinics to make poor business decisions.

 

[PrimalMU]

I'm on the fence about this. I can definitely see where you're coming from: it seems wrong to turn away a very select few breeds of dog. However, I can also see the other side of the argument. Before I could really make a decision about how I feel about their decision, I would want to know what prompted this. Did they have clients complaining about all of the Rotties biting people? Do the people in the area use pitbulls for fighting? etc. While I think its unfortunate that breed stigmas still carry on, there must be a reason for this other than "I hate pitbulls" or whatever breed they decide to ban.

The bottom line to me is: will they still stabilize an emergency case? If so, I don't see the problem with turning away breeds you do not feel comfortable treating, even if I do think its a bit silly.

Dog fighting, while I'm sure occurs, isn't really a problem like it is in urban areas. I also can hardly believe that this clinic has such a disproportionately large number of mean dogs, much less mean "bully breeds." We're a mere 3 miles down the road from them and we don't have ANY mean "bully breeds." We do, however, have our fair share of mean-spirited dachshunds. We even have more mean labs than pit bulls or rotties.

I believe this has to do with the recent dog legislation in the county the clinic is in, where the term "vicious dog" is defined as "a pit bull or any dog that shows unprovoked aggression" (note that with this wording, even pit bulls who are therapy dogs are by law defined as "vicious").

 

[pinsirb2]

I just wanted to point out that many individuals are making comments that they have been biten and/or attacked more often by breeds that aren't considered to be the "dangerous" or "aggressive" breeds. But one thing you got to keep in mind is that these breeds are sometimes considered more dangerous not because they are more likely to bite but because when they do bite they tend to do a lot more damage then most other breeds. A lab might snap once and let go, a termed "aggressive" breed is more likely to make several fast, very powerful and damaging bites or bite and not let go.

--Just wanted to point that out, please continue the discussion, people are bring up good points for both sides.

 

[lalzi22]

It may not only have been put in place to potentially protect the staff, but also the clients/patients. About 3 years ago in our waiting room a pit attacked a cocker spaniel because the owners were not holding the leashes tight enough. This pit was sweet and wonderful towards people but apparently did not like the cocker. Unfortunately the cocker died. Since then all "aggressive" breeds are brought into a room immediately. We don't want to single out "aggressive" breeds, but for the safety of our patients it may sometimes be necessary. I don't agree with breed bans, but I can absolutely see why they are sometimes put in place.

 

[PrimalMU]

I just wanted to point out that many individuals are making comments that they have been biten and/or attacked more often by breeds that aren't considered to be the "dangerous" or "aggressive" breeds. But one thing you got to keep in mind is that these breeds are sometimes considered more dangerous not because they are more likely to bite but because when they do bite they tend to do a lot more damage then most other breeds. A lab might snap once and let go, a termed "aggressive" breed is more likely to make several fast, very powerful and damaging bites or bite and not let go.

I personally don't believe that the breeds in question are inherently more likely to bite and not let go than any other breeds. I believe it is a matter of hysteria. Back in the 70s it was German Shepherds and Dobermans that fell victim to breed discrimination. I don't know about you, but just about every dobie I've met has been a wonderful dog. Likewise, I've never met a human aggressive pit bull (though I'll admit that they do tend to be more dog aggressive, but that's more of an issue of demographics, i.e. the "thug mentality," and irresponsible ownership).

 

[oilidigigoat]

Pibbles-

I'm not biased against pitbulls. But there was a very high number of agressive dogs in our area of town.

 

[alliecat44]

Torn about this, too. I'm not a fan of breed-specific anything--and I love me some pit bulls and rottweilers, don't get me wrong--but there has to be some reason for this clinic to enact this ban at this time.

If I had to guess--which is really all we're doing here--I'd say that this veterinarian has seen a disproportionately large number of these dogs likely bred locally and owned by people who do NOT know how to handle/train dogs. Plenty of stories abound about veterinarians warning owners to keep their growling, snapping Rottie away from the small child in the house and then finding out that not only did the owners not listen re: behavioral therapy/getting rid of the dog, but that child is now dead or severely disfigured. It happens. And WE make ourselves feel SICK over it even though we advised them as best we could and it wasn't OUR fault.

I agree that the little land sharks are far more likely to bite--but they are also far more likely to be able to be safely restrained. It is very, very difficult to restrain the equivalent of a lunging Chihuahua when you put that attitude in 100# of muscle. Not even big burly male staff members have an "easy" time dealing with that--and we all know how common that type of physical build is for a SAH employee.

Plus, yes, the small dogs can do considerable damage--look at the recent case in Colorado where the tech's lips were bitten off by a dachsund--but one or two bites from a large aggressive dog is far more likely to actually kill you.

I have no patience for aggressive dogs. It makes me sad because 99 times out of 100 it's the case of a bad owner and NOT a bad dog--but I have no patience for them. I'd much rather deal with a cranky kitty any day of the week!

It's interesting. I would definitely say that it would be a fireable offense in my practice to have an unacceptably aggressive dog with a clueless/in denial owner--wouldn't hesitate to fire them--but wouldn't consider enacting a breed ban.

 

[alliecat44]

Since then all "aggressive" breeds are brought into a room immediately.

And just as an aside--this is common in a lot of practices--this is financially disruptive as well. That exam room could be occupied by a client with a veterinarian instead and be generating income for the practice--instead, it's being used as a second waiting room.

Or, if it's being utilized appropriately and you have to move client A so client B can wait in there with his aggressive dog--how does that look to client A? Not likely to engender customer loyalty.

Again--I have nothing against certain breeds of dogs--I'm looking more at the individual aggressive dog case scenario. Do we charge clients more when their pet is a royal pain in the a$# to deal with, puts our staff in danger, uses more of our cleaning supplies because it's expressing its anal glands everywhere while it's lunging and snapping and having to be restrained behind a door so you can pop him IM with a sedative? etc etc etc? Not commonly--but perhaps we should.

 

[pibbles]

And just as an aside--this is common in a lot of practices--this is financially disruptive as well. That exam room could be occupied by a client with a veterinarian instead and be generating income for the practice--instead, it's being used as a second waiting room.

Or, if it's being utilized appropriately and you have to move client A so client B can wait in there with his aggressive dog--how does that look to client A? Not likely to engender customer loyalty.

Again--I have nothing against certain breeds of dogs--I'm looking more at the individual aggressive dog case scenario. Do we charge clients more when their pet is a royal pain in the a$# to deal with, puts our staff in danger, uses more of our cleaning supplies because it's expressing its anal glands everywhere while it's lunging and snapping and having to be restrained behind a door so you can pop him IM with a sedative? etc etc etc? Not commonly--but perhaps we should.

What do we do about dogs that aren't deemed "dangerous" breeds but are DA, then?

My APBT was in the waiting room with my mom while I was working. She was just waiting to get sutures out from an attack by a shih tzu in which, instead of attacking back, she peed herself lol. While in the waiting room, an elderly women let her dalmation, on an unlocked flexi lead, lunge at my dog and snap 3 times before a receptionish could get out from behind the desk to control the situation. My dog jumped on my mom's lap at that point lol. Big scary pit bull ;-).

We have also seen dogs that live together get into a tiff in the waiting room. It boils down to the fact that a veterinary clinic is a stressful place for pets. There is no way to separate every single dog in a traditional waiting room setting. Instead, owners should be in full control of their pets, which will never happen 100% of the time, so sometimes, incidents will happen.

It seems like some clinics are getting excessively cautious, which as alliecat said, can be very damaging to their business. I still drive a car every day, but there is a chance that someone could go through a red light and kill me. Should I stop driving my car, just in case?

 

[clairbear]

I agree that it should be up to the vet, but it still doesn't do anything to make the breeds look better. In our area, we have some, but not many of the people who use them as a symbol. At the clinic were I used to shadow, we didn't really do anything special with them compared to other dogs, but I don't think they had ever had an issue with the dog itself. In fact, the staff loved them and said that they were some of the best patients.

The only issue we ever had was when one man (he did look like a thug, but he was actually really nice) came in with his pitbull. She seemed like she was really friendly and well behaved, and she was really good during the exam. While they were waiting though, this lady started flipping out because she didn't want that dog around her and her little dog. We could hear her all the way back where the vet was with another patient. The vet ended up leaving to see what was going on, and the pitbull was moved out of the waiting room. I don't think the lady came back after that.

 

[DVMDream]

My APBT was in the waiting room with my mom while I was working. She was just waiting to get sutures out from an attack by a shih tzu in which, instead of attacking back, she peed herself lol. While in the waiting room, an elderly women let her dalmation, on an unlocked flexi lead, lunge at my dog and snap 3 times before a receptionish could get out from behind the desk to control the situation. My dog jumped on my mom's lap at that point lol. Big scary pit bull ;-).

I hate those flexi leads. I think those things should be outlawed. I have told many clients to lock the lead before they hand it over to me and I have had multiple times where they have not and the dog can take off wherever it wants (and I learned the hard way that grabbing that skinny thin lead coming out of the big plastic handle leaves really bad blisters and burn marks). I have learned now to double check and make sure those leads are locked before I walk the dog into the back of the clinic, but really they are a pain in the you know what and I have yet to see any client that can properly control their dogs on those leads.

 

[heylodeb]

if we banned those breeds at our clinic, I'm pretty sure we'd go out of business!!

 

[philomycus]

Scariest dog that I EVER encountered: chiuaua. We drew short straws on who you deal with him.

 

[Royal811]

I shadowed at a clinic where someone brought in their pit bull who had spent her weekend at the emergency clinic for ingesting a toxic substance. This dog, who had been poked and prodded and still had a catheter in, was the sweetest patient you could ask for. Her tail was wagging almost nonstop and she was happy to cuddle.

Obviously, one data point does not a conclusion make, but I've met quite a few pit bulls and none seemed overly aggressive to me. Chihuahuas on the other hand, those can be scary little demons. 😉 Same with dachshunds, but I don't see any cities or clinics trying to ban them.

 

[oilidigigoat]

So pibbles it sounds like you have a pitbull with a really nice temperment.
But I absolutely worked in an area that had a huge amount of agressive dogs. Yes some were small and when the minpins tried to bite I just threw a towel over their head or blocked them from biting my ankle with my shoe. Haha..but when the pitbull attacked (while standing there untouched) I had no defense. The towel method and shoe method simply would not work. The dogs name was Bigboy he weight 90lbs and had a huge chain around his neck with a lock on it, I was the second person he had bit and sent to the hospital within two weeks. A lot of pits in the area were stolen out of their own yards. We didn't get many cases of other dog breeds stolen but we got a lot of reports of pitbulls and a few we returned to their correct owner. The police came a few times to the clinic. In our area there were a lot of aggressive pitbulls-some were bred that way and I'm sure some were tied up in the backyard neglected.

I don't think that certain dog breeds are bad. But I do think that certain breeders are selecting for aggressive dogs and some owners don't properly socialize their dogs. In the area that I worked an unproportional amount of dogs being bred and neglected happened to be pitbulls. We had certain staff that would handle them. And were cautious when they came in.

It sounds like PrimalMU and Pibbles have had a lot of good pitbull encounters..which is awesome! But just be aware that there are some bad encounters going on out there and that we can't really judge a Vet on his/her decision to restrict certain breeds when we have no details on the situation.

 

[peachy3214]

Its very frustrating that people are so scared or deeply offended by stereotyping that you are willing to jeopardize others safety. The cold hard truth is that the stereotypes against pits are there for a reason just like little dogs like min pins are notorious ankle biters. Rottis, german shepherds, dobermans, and Pitts are all used as guard dogs for a reason. That reason is they are more often then not capable of being dangerous weapons. There is a reason labs and goldens are such popular family pets.....because they are less likely to have aggression problems. There have been some arguments where people have said well you cant penalize a whole area because of a few people. Im going to disagree, like i said i live in an area where THE VAST MAJORITY of people think they are thugs and want a dog to compliment their lifestyle. They are uneducated thugs and all over the country the problem stems from people using these dogs to give themselves a couple more inches on their penis. In my area if you come across a pit, 9/10 its gonna rip your face off and im very proud that my vet stepped up and said enough. As a lover of what these dogs can be with proper training(loyal, sweet, loving) it saddens me to know what is happening to them because of bad owners. BUT we are just as bad if we pretend like these are baseless stereotypes instead of accepting that it is in fact a problem and it needs to be addressed honestly and decisively.

 

[jmcgintee]

I didn't read through all of the posts so I apologize if I repeat something that has already been said. As far as the ban goes, I have to imagine it is insurance related. Unfortunately insurance companies hate bully breeds and even if you own a vet clinic, i have to imagine insurance costs go up because of those breeds. Also, the clinic I work at has stopped taking on new clients with American bulldogs. We've had problems with them and it's just easier to not take the chance. I'm not saying I completely agree with this but you do have to look at it from a business point of view. It is sometimes very costly to have a tech out on workman's comp because of a nasty bite

 

[cowgirla]

You all keep banning.

And I'm going to take someone else's advice and open up a "bad dogs" clinic :-D
Love pitties and bullies. And what's going to be next? Dobes, great danes, mastiffs, and anything else with a "bulldog" in its name?

My boss has "fired" two clients because of the way their pets behave. One was a labradoodle, the other was a golden retriever. Both aggressive, showed no warning signs, and would freak out severely if you even attempted to muzzle or restrain them. One of them we required them to sedate before they came in, and we would give more sedation when they arrived-- the owners thought we should waive all those drug fees because "we were incompetent, and it wasnt their fault their dog was overly rambunctions."

We do have a few aggressive pitties and rotties. Most of those are either present owner issues (idiot owners) or previous owners (rescue dogs.) But they are very very few and far between. In fact, we've had many clients say "oh please muzzle him, I'll feel better," which is great, because we know they care about us and their dog. Half the time, we don't end up needing the muzzle, and it makes the owners so happy! 👍

 

[PrimalMU]

You all keep banning.

And I'm going to take someone else's advice and open up a "bad dogs" clinic :-D

Hey, I'll join ya!

 

[crittergal]

Primal, I think you've opened a can of worms with the Facebook page. I predict a viral interest and people joining in the near future. Nicely done!

 

[TrocarKarin]

I've joked about when I open my own clinic, not outright banning the little dogs, but for trying to gain a reputation for working with the big ones. I'll take a pitty or a dobe any day over a purse dog.

<---- My "big bad doberman"

 

[bunnity]

A couple things:

Some people are confusing dogs being aggressive towards dogs and dogs being aggressive toward people. Pits are terriers and so they do have a high prey drive - this can translate to not being good with small dogs that for all intents and purposes are prey. Because some are / were bred for fighting, they can have issues with dog aggression as well. However, even fighting pits are selected to be gentle with humans - it's no good for the handler if the dog turns on them mid-fight. I would strongly suggest looking at pbrc.net for more information - they of course are pit lovers but have a lot of statistics to look through as well. Before you start talking about "aggressive" breeds, look up some breed information and temperament testing results. http://www.atts.org/index.html

I think some of the responses on this thread are a little intolerant - people talking about areas of town with aggressive dogs and bad owners. It's easy to stereotype people by how they look and where they live, but there are bad owners everywhere. Coming from someone who works in a "bad" neighborhood in Philadelphia, I find statements like this offensive. Having money or living in a "good" part of town does not make you a good owner. And you'd be surprised - many of the toughest-looking guys are looking for a Shih Tzu to adopt, and many of the little old ladies want a pit or a shepherd. It's not always a status symbol; most people just want a pet to love. If vets are banning specific breeds to get rid of a specific "poor, thug-like" type of owner, I think that's pretty sad.

And coming from someone who has worked with thousands of pits (since we're doing anecdotes), I find the vast majority to be friendly, loving, hyper, and a little obnoxious. Not aggressive. It is rare for me to be afraid of one of our pits - I use a lot more caution with shepherds, chows, and anything small. The scariest dog I've ever worked with was a yellow lab.

One more thing: part of the media hysteria about pits is the complete inability to tell one breed from another. Try this out: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

 

[peachy3214]

I think some of the responses on this thread are a little intolerant - people talking about areas of town with aggressive dogs and bad owners. It's easy to stereotype people by how they look and where they live, but there are bad owners everywhere. Coming from someone who works in a "bad" neighborhood in Philadelphia, I find statements like this offensive. Having money or living in a "good" part of town does not make you a good owner. And you'd be surprised - many of the toughest-looking guys are looking for a Shih Tzu to adopt, and many of the little old ladies want a pit or a shepherd. It's not always a status symbol; most people just want a pet to love. If vets are banning specific breeds to get rid of a specific "poor, thug-like" type of owner, I think that's pretty sad.

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The point that I was making is that 90% of the time "the soccer mom" isnt adopting the pitbull from the local shelter because she wants to look like she means business. I was saying that the people that adopted these dogs FOR THE PURPOSE OF BEING AGGRESSIVE tend to fit that particular profile. I dont really appreciate being told that im close minded and intolerant when you know nothing of my background or the community that i live in. I live in the same town michael vick comes from, HERE you only get a pit if you want that dog to be aggressive there IS no inbetween or other side. Where you come from absolutely effects your attitudes towards animals particularly dog fighting which here is treated as acceptable and the cool thing to do. So yea 99.99% of the time the kid with money from middle class america isnt gonna get into dog fighting or buying dogs for the wrong reason. Are there exceptions, im sure there are, but the majority of the time thats just simply not the case. Im not about to risk someone's safety in the off chance that i don't want to offend someone that is the exception. Its just not worth it. I can say that with confidence about many of the towns around me as well, because i live here and have seen it. These are not stereotypes they are facts. I was saying that the people who have created most of the problems with pits DO fit a profile and it IS part of a sub culture, I live in it everyday and I interact with these people everyday. This is not intolerant but honest.

 

[Bearby]

One more thing: part of the media hysteria about pits is the complete inability to tell one breed from another. Try this out: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Woot woot! Got it right lol! I agree that many people confuse breeds.

I think, if I had to pick the dog I was most afraid of, it was a German Shepherd. Thank goodness the owner had a strong hold on the leash when I walked into the exam room, that dog lunged at me like I had never experienced. Once she realized you weren't a threat to her owner she was a pretty good dog, in fact she was an angel when you brought her in the back, away from Dad. But, I would have been in the ER with some serious injuries if her owner hadn't been holding that leash, guaranteed.

 

[WannaBeVet]

A couple things:

Some people are confusing dogs being aggressive towards dogs and dogs being aggressive toward people. Pits are terriers and so they do have a high prey drive - this can translate to not being good with small dogs that for all intents and purposes are prey. Because some are / were bred for fighting, they can have issues with dog aggression as well. However, even fighting pits are selected to be gentle with humans - it's no good for the handler if the dog turns on them mid-fight. I would strongly suggest looking at pbrc.net for more information - they of course are pit lovers but have a lot of statistics to look through as well. Before you start talking about "aggressive" breeds, look up some breed information and temperament testing results. http://www.atts.org/index.html

I think some of the responses on this thread are a little intolerant - people talking about areas of town with aggressive dogs and bad owners. It's easy to stereotype people by how they look and where they live, but there are bad owners everywhere. Coming from someone who works in a "bad" neighborhood in Philadelphia, I find statements like this offensive. Having money or living in a "good" part of town does not make you a good owner. And you'd be surprised - many of the toughest-looking guys are looking for a Shih Tzu to adopt, and many of the little old ladies want a pit or a shepherd. It's not always a status symbol; most people just want a pet to love. If vets are banning specific breeds to get rid of a specific "poor, thug-like" type of owner, I think that's pretty sad.

And coming from someone who has worked with thousands of pits (since we're doing anecdotes), I find the vast majority to be friendly, loving, hyper, and a little obnoxious. Not aggressive. It is rare for me to be afraid of one of our pits - I use a lot more caution with shepherds, chows, and anything small. The scariest dog I've ever worked with was a yellow lab.

One more thing: part of the media hysteria about pits is the complete inability to tell one breed from another. Try this out: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

👍 I absolutely agree with you...The second link especially is a good one.