Loma Linda + Chapel?!

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cooldude5555

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On Loma Linda's secondary did you see this question?


(4) Loma Linda University is a Seventh-day Adventist institution. The curriculum integrates ethical and relational issues from a Christian perspective into the practice of medicine. Weekly chapel services are part of this program. How would this relate to your personal educational and career goals? (750 characters max)


I thought it was the most random question out of all my secondaries so far. And does that mean we have to go to chapel during med school? Kinda strange?

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On Loma Linda's secondary did you see this question?


(4) Loma Linda University is a Seventh-day Adventist institution. The curriculum integrates ethical and relational issues from a Christian perspective into the practice of medicine. Weekly chapel services are part of this program. How would this relate to your personal educational and career goals? (750 characters max)


I thought it was the most random question out of all my secondaries so far. And does that mean we have to go to chapel during med school? Kinda strange?

Wow. I recieved the secondary also but haven't had a chance to look at it because i'm dealing with other secondaries. But that is wow. I don't even know where to start. It seems that you HAVe to go to chapel during med school. I guess its relating spirituality with real life goals???
 
I guess its relating spirituality with real life goals???

You know you could have just typed "It's brainwashing" and left it at that.
 
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This is why there are so many post-secondary withdrawals. 😛 Yes, it is required. I don't know why so many CA residents would apply to such a school being so oblivious to it. They are famous for it. 😛
 
This is why there are so many post-secondary withdrawals. 😛 Yes, it is required. I don't know why so many CA residents would apply to such a school being so oblivious to it. They are famous for it. 😛

in other words, they're like 90% of undergrad schools in west michigan.
 
in other words, they're like 90% of undergrad schools in west michigan.
In what sense? The requiring chapel attendance or the fact that people who apply there are oblivious as to what they are getting themselves into? :laugh:
 
Yup, church service is required. You also sign a contract that you will not have sex or drink alcohol while you're in medical school. If anybody catches you doing either, you can get kicked out of school.
(I'm saying this because I know people that go to their pharm & med school)

For pharm, you have to dress business casual EVERY DAY to class.

You don't have to do that for med.

During the church service, a lot of people just end up doing their homework (My friend snapped a few pictures using a cell phone camera)

I don't know why so many people from Cali apply to Loma Linda😕
 
Yup, church service is required. You also sign a contract that you will not have sex or drink alcohol while you're in medical school. If anybody catches you doing either, you can get kicked out of school.
(I'm saying this because I know people that go to their pharm & med school)

For pharm, you have to dress business casual EVERY DAY to class.

You don't have to do that for med.

During the church service, a lot of people just end up doing their homework (My friend snapped a few pictures using a cell phone camera)

I don't know why so many people from Cali apply to Loma Linda😕

It's a generalized rule: apply to all the California schools. I wish a few of them didn't take that statement so seriously. 😛 We all knew (except for Loma Linda) was being said between the lines.

(Did your eyeball change? 😛)
 
It's a generalized rule: apply to all the California schools. I wish a few of them didn't take that statement so seriously. 😛 We all knew (except for Loma Linda) was being said between the lines.

(Did your eyeball change? 😛)

(Haha, no, my eyeball is still the same. Nothing surprises me anymore...if that's what you're referring to)
 
In what sense? The requiring chapel attendance or the fact that people who apply there are oblivious as to what they are getting themselves into? :laugh:

a little from column A, a little from column B. I don't think I'd ever heard so much christian rock music in one setting than during my 3 hour tour of Hope...
 
a little from column A, a little from column B. I don't think I'd ever heard so much christian rock music in one setting than during my 3 hour tour of Hope...
:laugh: That's why I don't go to that side of Michigan very often.
 
Loma Linda is my top choice school.
 
Yup, church service is required. You also sign a contract that you will not have sex or drink alcohol while you're in medical school. If anybody catches you doing either, you can get kicked out of school.

The thing about the sex and alcohol... that sucks donkey balls. ****. I don't know if I should do this secondary.
 
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Wow. As a Christian who was quite enthusiastic about applying to Loma Linda (thought it was my only chance on the west coast) this news is quite upsetting.

If I can't crack open a cold beer at the end of a long day I don't see any reason to continue living.
 
The school is Christian and makes no bones about it. The mission is to train Christian doctors. I'm pretty unclear as to why it is so surprising you'd have to sit in chapel for one hour every week if this is the case? It definitely is a good chance to evaluate why you want to go to any particular medical school. If you don't like it, don't fill out the 2ndary. It's simple.

The folks who look at that question and "get it" are the people who Loma Linda wants.
 
You also sign a contract that you will not have sex while you're in medical school. If anybody catches you doing either, you can get kicked out of school.
What if you're married?
 
What if you're married?

Well I'm the last person to make a say on this, but I'm pretty sure that means you want to have children. Having children is not intuitive while doing medical school. You can wait until you graduate.
 
I'm sure you can go nuts if you're married. They're not stupid, they want some little adventists running around.
 
Well I'm the last person to make a say on this, but I'm pretty sure that means you want to have children. Having children is not intuitive while doing medical school. You can wait until you graduate.

#2 in my class, matched Derm - had 3 kids during medical school. Go figure.

My son was born during 2nd year just in time to be coliky for finals and step 1 study (I fantasize about how high my score would have been . . .) Somehow, someway, magic happened and I was able to graduate. Go figure.
 
I'm sure you can go nuts if you're married. They're not stupid, they want some little adventists running around.

#2 in my class, matched Derm - had 3 kids during medical school. Go figure.

My son was born during 2nd year just in time to be coliky for finals and step 1 study (I fantasize about how high my score would have been . . .) Somehow, someway, magic happened and I was able to graduate. Go figure.

Decided to be PC. When I said I was the last person to say this, I meant I'm not Christian, so I can't explain the no sex policy during medical school unless you were having children and this MIGHT be construed as a hindrance until after you complete medical school. I mean I can't justify Loma Linda's policy even in a Christian context unless you were single. (Sorry I tried. 😛)
 
NOT even then!

Lol, this is fun to read. I am an Adventist and our beliefs can seem outrageous sometimes--I won't argue 🙂.

In response to some of these statements:

I'm fairly certain that attending Chapel/Church is not required--would they seriously put forth the effort to monitor that? It wasn't required back in the 80's when my father attended there, so it certainly wouldn't be now.

Alcohol consumption is against our religious belief, just like extramarital sex (I'll spare you the reasoning). It seems like the opinion here is "OMG if i drink one drop of alcohol, they will kick me out of school!" Unless you show up drunk or severely hung-over, I doubt anyone will notice or care.

Oh, and sex is just fine if you are married.
 
I mean I can't justify Loma Linda's policy even in a Christian context unless you were single. (Sorry I tried. 😛)

It's quaint.

The school is merely looking for a certain type of applicant. You'll find sex, drugs and rock n roll if you look. Truth is (admissions may not like this) . . . not a single person that I know of got the boot while I was there for these issues. Although blantant, flagrant and open disregard for these rules, I would not recommend.
 
I'm fairly certain that attending Chapel/Church is not required--would they seriously put forth the effort to monitor that?

And you would be wrong. chapel used to be in the morning at 8 before classes, and I'd always sleep in. I spent some quality time with the chaplins making that up.

Alcohol consumption is against our religious belief, just like extramarital sex (I'll spare you the reasoning). It seems like the opinion here is "OMG if i drink one drop of alcohol, they will kick me out of school!" Unless you show up drunk or severely hung-over, I doubt anyone will notice or care.

Adressed this above

Oh, and sex is just fine if you are married.

Of course it is. Ask a stupid question and . . .
 
Loma Linda was a nice school BUT their admissions office is the worst by far. I am STILL waitlisted post-interview!! lol The way they handled admissions really really ticked me off. Sorry had to vent.
 
How would they even go about monitering if the students were having sex?? Are the walls in the dorms paper thin? Are there people specially comissioned to catch people in the act? If there are, that would be so funny. Kinda vouyeristic (spelling?) though... haha
 
Loma Linda and its contracts and its chapels can lick my hairy balls. Branch Davidians = SDA's. David Koresh SOM FTL.
 
Loma Linda and its contracts and its chapels can lick my hairy balls.

I guess it's good no one is making you apply or go there then isn't 🙄

Branch Davidians = SDA's. David Koresh SOM FTL.

Sometimes its best to keep your mouth closed and be suspected of idiocy than to open your mouth and be known an idiot. 👍

Strong work. Are you a Jedi-master? Because I just must train with your sensei!
 
He has a point, albeit a skewed one JDH......SDAs are the borderline form of religious extremist (compared to mainstream religions) to begin with; Koresh and his cronies just took it a bit further......

I will however temper that comment with this: most of the SDAs I have met are quite nice, albeit I think they are crazy when it comes to religion.....same goes for Mormons, anyone who handles snakes or speaks in tongues and especially Jehovah's Witnesses.......
 
He has a point, albeit a skewed one JDH......SDAs are the borderline form of religious extremist (compared to mainstream religions) to begin with; Koresh and his cronies just took it a bit further......

I will however temper that comment with this: most of the SDAs I have met are quite nice, albeit I think they are crazy when it comes to religion.....same goes for Mormons, anyone who handles snakes or speaks in tongues and especially Jehovah's Witnesses.......

The point that SDA's are Branch Dividians? That's not a point. It's ignorance.

SDAism is not extreme - the differences between "mainline" protestant Christianity and SDAism is basically the Sabbath and the Sanctuary (I KNOW you're not interested in being bored with the theology and religous jargon, so I'll leave it at that).

JW's and Mormons are quite heterodox and some would argue not even Christian (not an argument I'm making here).

And I would imagine you'd find just about anyone "crazy" when it comes to religion - yes?

In the spirit of NOT hijacking this thread about Chapel and LLU - which is a GREAT schhol - any further I would invite anyone who'd like to talk about, or just plan argue and ridcule these points to take it up with me in the Lounge.
 
I'd love to split hairs with you but I don't have the time. I've never applied to LLU and I never will for anything, I would encourage others not to as well.
 
I'd love to split hairs with you but I don't have the time. I've never applied to LLU and I never will for anything, I would encourage others not to as well.

When you've got the time to man-up, come on over to lounge and start a thread . . .

spewing nonsense and then running 🙄 Ok! 👍
 
I am Christian, but definitely a long ways away from being SDA, but am still applying to Loma Linda. I drink, but am willing to give it up for four years (well except for church communion wine). I hate to say it, but I think a lot of medical students could benefit by abiding by SDA principles. I can't tell you the stories I hear of near alcohol poisoning after med school midterms and the common abuse of stimulants by medial students. Most of my high school SDA friends were near vegetarians (mostly just fish and chicken) and were some of the healthiest people I knew. I think it would be nice to be attend a medical school that encourages healthy behavior, since at many schools many medical students help others at the cost of their own health and well being.

Also, does anyone know if you can get out of chapel by attending religious services other than SDA services or do you have to attend the schools specifically?
 
I KNOW you're not interested in being bored with the theology and religous jargon, so I'll leave it at that

Actually feel free to PM me with it.....I may be an atheist, but I do have an interest in religions from other perspectives. You might be surprised to find that I am a lot more openminded than most on SDN believe me to be.

And I would imagine you'd find just about anyone "crazy" when it comes to religion - yes?
No, actually I don't. It's a matter of when it either crosses a line where it prevents them from living their lives (because of mandatory closemindedness or because of excessive demands on their time for religious services), demands they do things that will endanger their lives or the lives of their children (JW's and their stupid blood policy) or mandating that they annoy others with their beliefs (Mormons, 6 am and my front door....if it weren't illegal to plant landmines, this could fall under point #2 :laugh: ), then I start to question their grasp on reality. Beyond that, I quite frankly don't care what someone believes so long as it isn't causing problems for them or someone else. Think of it as a DSM for religion- it's not pathologic if it is not causing a serious problem for the patient or those around the patient.

LLU - which is a GREAT school
I have nothing against the school other than the code they enforce and the demands on attending chapel. If it weren't for the latter (seeing as I don't drink or smoke and my only addiction is caffeine), I would definitely apply there. They happen to have one of the top experts in the world on snake envenomation on staff (or faculty, I'm not sure which) and that is a major 👍 in my book since I'm a bit of a tox junkie......
 
Also, does anyone know if you can get out of chapel by attending religious services other than SDA services or do you have to attend the schools specifically?

It's plain vanilla, nondemoninational fare. You won't be bothered by anything you hear at chapel.
 
Also, does anyone know if you can get out of chapel by attending religious services other than SDA services or do you have to attend the schools specifically?
I was wondering that too.....I attend Episcopal services (Catholicism minus all the guilt)- albeit mainly for networking rather than salvation, so if I could use that as a way of weaseling out of something like this, then game on......


Oh, nevermind....I see JDH answered that already..... 😀
 
The point that SDA's are Branch Dividians? That's not a point. It's ignorance.

SDAism is not extreme - the differences between "mainline" protestant Christianity and SDAism is basically the Sabbath and the Sanctuary (I KNOW you're not interested in being bored with the theology and religous jargon, so I'll leave it at that).

JW's and Mormons are quite heterodox and some would argue not even Christian (not an argument I'm making here).

And I would imagine you'd find just about anyone "crazy" when it comes to religion - yes?

In the spirit of NOT hijacking this thread about Chapel and LLU - which is a GREAT schhol - any further I would invite anyone who'd like to talk about, or just plan argue and ridcule these points to take it up with me in the Lounge.

Does Loma Linda accept applicants from other religions? How is it done? And what are those religions?
 
Does Loma Linda accept applicants from other religions? How is it done? And what are those religions?

No. Just those professing to be Christian (went to school with more than one atheist though - go figure). LLU is able to maintain this selection bias specifically because Chapel is required as well as one religion class per quarter (again nondenominational - more ethics than theology)
 
No. Just those professing to be Christian (went to school with more than one atheist though - go figure). LLU is able to maintain this selection bias specifically because Chapel is required as well as one religion class per quarter (again nondenominational - more ethics than theology)
I would have to lie in most of those classes since my ethics tend to be relative to a situation rather than fixed in nature as is common in religion
 
I would have to lie in most of those classes since my ethics tend to be relative to a situation rather than fixed in nature as is common in religion

All ethics are situational, thus the often unsatisfying and completely unresolved problems ecountered with ethics in complicated cases.

The morality of religion, or Christiaity more specifically, is fixed. Applying those morals to situational Christian ethics is still situational, and arguably more predictable, but I would imagine there wouldn't be many ethical situations in medicine where you have to disagree and therefore lie. Besides religion classes are pass fail based on showing up and staying awake - no one gets zinged for not towing some sort of specific ethical line. The discussion can be quite heated especially on abortion and euthanasia (youth in aisa?! why's that controversial?)
 
I would imagine there wouldn't be many ethical situations in medicine where you have to disagree and therefore lie.

-Abortion- I don't see a problem with it; in fact, as Sacrament on here put it it's the greatest service offered to mankind by OB/GYNs

-Euthanasia- likewise, I don't see a problem with a patient having the choice not to suffer a lingering death simply because it might offend someone else's religious beliefs. Granted, there should be oversight, but it should be an option in terminal cases.

-Withdrawal of care- I don't believe there is anything "sacred" about human life, (anymore than any other animal's life at least....in fact, I have less of a problem emptying a piece of **** person's skull with my .40 than I would doing the same to an aggressive dog). The "sanctity of life" which seems to be the argument that religious types tend to drag out whenever something comes up like this often to the point of blatantly ignoring evidence that they are wrong about their assertions (*cough* Terri Schiavo *cough*). Quality is vastly more important that quantity.

-Participation in executions- I grew up in the town that is home to federal death row and would have given my left testicle to have been the one to stick the needle in McVeigh's arm. Personally I think we should not execute by lethal injection.....let's go for crucifixion. As George Carlin pointed out, it's a method the Christians and Jews of this country could really appreciate......and it takes a damn good long time and is therefore a better punishment because it requires the sleazebag being executed to suffer like his victims suffered. The added advantage is you really can do without a doc there for pronouncement....once the vultures start to work over the body, it's pretty obvious that he's dead.

-Refusal of care on religious grounds- This gets back to the whole JW thing.....you have a patient who tells you they don't want blood because an invisible man in the sky says they will be condemned to hell for it. How is that any different from someone saying that their neighbor's dog told them it? If you have a rational reason for not wanting it (fear of transmissible disease, TRALI, etc) that's one thing....but if you want to base your refusal on something that sounds like the rantings of a paranoid schizophrenic, we should be allowed to treat you under implied consent and save your sorry butt.

BTW, no I'm not claiming that religion is a form of mental illness, just that some people take to an extreme that approaches being psychopathology.
 
-Abortion- I don't see a problem with it; in fact, as Sacrament on here put it it's the greatest service offered to mankind by OB/GYNs

-Euthanasia- likewise, I don't see a problem with a patient having the choice not to suffer a lingering death simply because it might offend someone else's religious beliefs. Granted, there should be oversight, but it should be an option in terminal cases.

-Withdrawal of care- I don't believe there is anything "sacred" about human life, (anymore than any other animal's life at least....in fact, I have less of a problem emptying a piece of **** person's skull with my .40 than I would doing the same to an aggressive dog). The "sanctity of life" which seems to be the argument that religious types tend to drag out whenever something comes up like this often to the point of blatantly ignoring evidence that they are wrong about their assertions (*cough* Terri Schiavo *cough*). Quality is vastly more important that quantity.

-Participation in executions- I grew up in the town that is home to federal death row and would have given my left testicle to have been the one to stick the needle in McVeigh's arm. Personally I think we should not execute by lethal injection.....let's go for crucifixion. As George Carlin pointed out, it's a method the Christians and Jews of this country could really appreciate......and it takes a damn good long time and is therefore a better punishment because it requires the sleazebag being executed to suffer like his victims suffered. The added advantage is you really can do without a doc there for pronouncement....once the vultures start to work over the body, it's pretty obvious that he's dead.

-Refusal of care on religious grounds- This gets back to the whole JW thing.....you have a patient who tells you they don't want blood because an invisible man in the sky says they will be condemned to hell for it. How is that any different from someone saying that their neighbor's dog told them it? If you have a rational reason for not wanting it (fear of transmissible disease, TRALI, etc) that's one thing....but if you want to base your refusal on something that sounds like the rantings of a paranoid schizophrenic, we should be allowed to treat you under implied consent and save your sorry butt.

BTW, no I'm not claiming that religion is a form of mental illness, just that some people take to an extreme that approaches being psychopathology.

You would be in the minority with those views, but not the lone voice, nor would you be penalized for taking those positions - my ethical stance on all on all of these issues isn't much different (the big glaring difference I see, is the equation of animls and humans - I don't do that and I still find a withdrawl of care stance basically identical to yourself) than yours, and I let people know when it came up in class.

Abortion the greatest service givern to us by ob/gyn's? 🙄 I kinda think the whole careing for pregnancy, delivering babies, and treating reproductive cancer, sort of "outshines" sucking out developing human beings and pashing out RU486 with cytotec . . . but I'm sure the statement was made to be provocative . . .
 
I didn't apply to this school because of its Christian focus. Any kind of religious overtones make me uncomfortable.
 
No. Just those professing to be Christian (went to school with more than one atheist though - go figure). LLU is able to maintain this selection bias specifically because Chapel is required as well as one religion class per quarter (again nondenominational - more ethics than theology)

Thanks.
Atheist, that's what I intended to ask. Does Loma Linda accept any applicant who has not wholeheartedly committed to any particular religion yet? And how? The applicant in my case is not necessarily an atheist because he always respects everyone's god. Also, there is always some religion that doesn't prohibit participation with activity in another religion including the Chapel.

Now I'm beginning to wonder how SDA recruits new members. I guess they don't go door to door knocking the way some Christian does.
 
Thanks.
Atheist, that's what I intended to ask. Does Loma Linda accept any applicant who has not wholeheartedly committed to any particular religion yet? And how? The applicant in my case is not necessarily an atheist because he always respects everyone's god.

I doubt it. Loma Linda is looking for professing Christians. SDAs are given preference especially if they come out of the SDA udergrad system (but my class was only like 30% SDA)

Also, there is always some religion that doesn't prohibit participation with activity in another religion including the Chapel.

LLU is not going to take you if you have a problem with Chapel attendence. Which really isn't that horrible. I think it's wednesday at 11 AM now. You can miss three a quarter and are not required to go during test weeks. And if it matters Chapel is only required during the basic science years - you don't have Chapel after 2nd year.

Now I'm beginning to wonder how SDA recruits new members. I guess they don't go door to door knocking the way some Christian does.

I suppose it's attraction rather than promotion. It's a pretty sizeable denomination and has the second largest schooling system worldwide behind the Roman Catholics. We're not hurting for members or converts it seems. I've never knocked on a door and am surprised that the Mormons and JW's still continue to do so. There may have been in a time in our western society when this worked, but today . . . it just pi$$es people off
 
I kinda think the whole careing for pregnancy, delivering babies, and treating reproductive cancer, sort of "outshines" sucking out developing human beings and pashing out RU486 with cytotec . . . but I'm sure the statement was made to be provocative .

I am of the belief that people should be required to obtain a license before breeding, for the sake of the child and that the poor should be required to be on some form of birth control that they can't 'forget' to take (Norplant, etc) if they are going to receive ANY form of support. I don't think I should be working my butt off and paying taxes so Shanaynay can pick up her welfare check and then use it to buy crack to fuel a sex binge while she should be working instead of popping a baby out of her fat ass every 9 months.

Anyone who (especially people in situations engaging in activities like what I just described) wants to get rid of a clump of cells before it becomes a person (defined as when it has a likelihood of surviving without almost assured dire complications should it be born at that point (~26 weeks or so)) then more power to them. Hell, if it keeps one more little tax sucking oxygen thief from coming into this world, I'd rather put my taxes towards a non-profit agency providing these services.
 
wow, this is probably one of the most messed up rants I have ever read on SDN.
 
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