LOR predicament

[tbhdying]

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Good morning everyone! I am trying to get an LOR for the very first time on my surgery core and really am scared/confused to ask. I just wanted to know if it's appropriate to get one, from who, and how i can approach them. I have 2 weeks left in the core and would like to know if there is anything more i can do. Here is the story:

so during my general surgery core, the PD and co-PD never rounded with us. They would do cases, come for emergency consults, and do their clinic days. So, time with them is limited. With the PD, I went to her clinic to help her and the resident out and there she got to know me, my hobbies, and even asked if i were to come to the programs in this state, being from another state how will i adjust. I gave her an answer about being fine with staying and she was pretty sold on it. i've scrubbed in with her to the point where she knows who i am on a first name basis and even if i have a mask on and say nothing, she asks me about my hobbies and follows up with questions we left off on the previous time.But i dont do much in the OR.. all i do is just help prep the patient, anticipate what she/the resident needs and hand it to them, and then try to wipe/suction/do easy things. But that's really all i have done with her. she saw that i was the only student there on memorial day when she came for an emergency consult but didn't say anything.

I am finishing a paper with her chief resident that I want to tell her about. I haven't booked an appt with her to see her to discuss my CV and application.

The co-PD is someone we spend just slightly more time with. He was in the military and is a really intense/intimidating person to the residents and to us students but that's his nature. I have presented for him when he asked if anyone would like to volunteer to present on didactics. I have scrubbed into cases with him. After a couple hiccups, i have been able to anticipate what i can give him before he asks for it, wipe/suction/cut stuff, and do whatever i can (prep patient, etc). He began to take note of it i guess because he told the resident to go work on the other side and i can help him. Then he began to tell me tips of what programs look for, what i want in my 10 year plan, and things i can do to build a relationship with OR nurses. I have told him that I am presenting a poster at ACS and would like him to look at it since he did critique my presentation and he was pretty excited to say he will. I haven't booked an appt to talk to him or told him i am finishing a paper with his chief resident, either. FYI He has a nature to comment/critique the residents and students on pretty much everything. but it isn't malignant just a little sarcastic. But idk if he would be like that on an LOR..

Sorry for the long backdrop but I just wanted to know is this enough to ask for a letter from either/both of them? What more can I do on my last 2 weeks? And if it looks like i can get a letter, any tips on how to ask?

thanks for all the help, as always.

 

[Lem0nz]

Good morning everyone! I am trying to get an LOR for the very first time on my surgery core and really am scared/confused to ask. I just wanted to know if it's appropriate to get one, from who, and how i can approach them. I have 2 weeks left in the core and would like to know if there is anything more i can do. Here is the story:

so during my general surgery core, the PD and co-PD never rounded with us. They would do cases, come for emergency consults, and do their clinic days. So, time with them is limited. With the PD, I went to her clinic to help her and the resident out and there she got to know me, my hobbies, and even asked if i were to come to the programs in this state, being from another state how will i adjust. I gave her an answer about being fine with staying and she was pretty sold on it. i've scrubbed in with her to the point where she knows who i am on a first name basis and even if i have a mask on and say nothing, she asks me about my hobbies and follows up with questions we left off on the previous time.But i dont do much in the OR.. all i do is just help prep the patient, anticipate what she/the resident needs and hand it to them, and then try to wipe/suction/do easy things. But that's really all i have done with her. she saw that i was the only student there on memorial day when she came for an emergency consult but didn't say anything.

I am finishing a paper with her chief resident that I want to tell her about. I haven't booked an appt with her to see her to discuss my CV and application.

The co-PD is someone we spend just slightly more time with. He was in the military and is a really intense/intimidating person to the residents and to us students but that's his nature. I have presented for him when he asked if anyone would like to volunteer to present on didactics. I have scrubbed into cases with him. After a couple hiccups, i have been able to anticipate what i can give him before he asks for it, wipe/suction/cut stuff, and do whatever i can (prep patient, etc). He began to take note of it i guess because he told the resident to go work on the other side and i can help him. Then he began to tell me tips of what programs look for, what i want in my 10 year plan, and things i can do to build a relationship with OR nurses. I have told him that I am presenting a poster at ACS and would like him to look at it since he did critique my presentation and he was pretty excited to say he will. I haven't booked an appt to talk to him or told him i am finishing a paper with his chief resident, either. FYI He has a nature to comment/critique the residents and students on pretty much everything. but it isn't malignant just a little sarcastic. But idk if he would be like that on an LOR..

Sorry for the long backdrop but I just wanted to know is this enough to ask for a letter from either/both of them? What more can I do on my last 2 weeks? And if it looks like i can get a letter, any tips on how to ask?

thanks for all the help, as always.

Sounds like you did great. Yes, ask them both. Do not have any reservations about it. Be confident.

 

[tbhdying]

thank you @Lem0nz 🥺 .. i wasn't sure if suctioning/wiping etc was much to shine for an LOR. I feel better now, but i'm still scared to approach them because i've never asked for one. Should i ask if there is any way they can write me a strong LOR? what is the way to start the convo? i'm doing better, but i still have a hard time forming the best words in the moment. So, I wanted to know what is a good way to start and break the ice, so i don't have to think about that part, at least.

 

[candbgirl]

thank you @Lem0nz 🥺 .. i wasn't sure if suctioning/wiping etc was much to shine for an LOR. I feel better now, but i'm still scared to approach them because i've never asked for one. Should i ask if there is any way they can write me a strong LOR? what is the way to start the convo? i'm doing better, but i still have a hard time forming the best words in the moment. So, I wanted to know what is a good way to start and break the ice, so i don't have to think about that part, at least.

They are most likely expecting you to,ask them for these letters. Make that appointment with the PD as you mentioned. As here there. As to the cp-PD just ask . You stood out to both of them. This isn’t going to be an issue. Good luck.

 

[ACSurgeon]

thank you @Lem0nz 🥺 .. i wasn't sure if suctioning/wiping etc was much to shine for an LOR. I feel better now, but i'm still scared to approach them because i've never asked for one. Should i ask if there is any way they can write me a strong LOR? what is the way to start the convo? i'm doing better, but i still have a hard time forming the best words in the moment. So, I wanted to know what is a good way to start and break the ice, so i don't have to think about that part, at least.

What you describe above is what the superstar students do. Unfortunately students are doing less and less and expectations have become nonexistent. You’re going above 99% what others are doing.

are you an M3? Not sure you want to get two letters before your sub-I or fourth year electives. You can always ask though and hold on to them for later. Depending on your circumstance, you can let both PDs know you’re applying to surgery and want a letter next year and continue to build a relationship with them in the form of research, attending department conferences, and maybe spending sometime with one or both as a fourth year student. This will generate the strongest possible letter as they can attest to knowing you over a long period of time and through different settings (research, M3, M4).

Also, no reason to be intimidated. Set up meetings and go discuss your plans, ask for advice/mentorship and let them know you’ll need letters. If it helps, set up your meeting with the less intimidating person first so that you go into your second meeting with more confidence!

best of luck. You’re on the right track

 

[tbhdying]

They are most likely expecting you to,ask them for these letters. Make that appointment with the PD as you mentioned. As here there. As to the cp-PD just ask . You stood out to both of them. This isn’t going to be an issue. Good luck.

I appreciate it so much 🥺 . If you have any tips/suggestions on how to ask, i would greatly appreciate it. Thank you 😭🙏🏼

 

[tbhdying]

What you describe above is what the superstar students do. Unfortunately students are doing less and less and expectations have become nonexistent. You’re going above 99% what others are doing.

are you an M3? Not sure you want to get two letters before your sub-I or fourth year electives. You can always ask though and hold on to them for later. Depending on your circumstance, you can let both PDs know you’re applying to surgery and want a letter next year and continue to build a relationship with them in the form of research, attending department conferences, and maybe spending sometime with one or both as a fourth year student. This will generate the strongest possible letter as they can attest to knowing you over a long period of time and through different settings (research, M3, M4).

Also, no reason to be intimidated. Set up meetings and go discuss your plans, ask for advice/mentorship and let them know you’ll need letters. If it helps, set up your meeting with the less intimidating person first so that you go into your second meeting with more confidence!

best of luck. You’re on the right track

that is such great advice, I didn't even think about asking now for fourth year. Yes, I am an MS3! I think I might do that and continue being active in whatever way I can. Thank you for the awesome idea😩😭🙏

 

[ACSurgeon]

that is such great advice, I didn't even think about asking now for fourth year. Yes, I am an MS3! I think I might do that and continue being active in whatever way I can. Thank you for the awesome idea😩😭🙏

Your emojis are confusing. I hope they don’t truly reflect your emotions!