Low GPA and PCAT Successful Admission Story

[cdhoward]

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I thought that I was fighting an uphill battle to enter pharmacy school, so I applied to 12 schools in all and thought my best case scenario would have me interviewing at 2 or 3 schools. So far, I have heard from all but 3 schools. I don't anticipate hearing from the final three, either.

GPA: 3.15 at the time of application, and 3.05 post academic update. It was ok, but not great and certainly didn't compensate for my PCAT scores.

PCAT: Well, I have never received a competitive composite score. I've taken it 4 times and scored 55, 55, 51, and 56. Now, to be fair, reading comprehension is what pulled my composite scores down so low. I've faired well on all sections of the PCAT, I just never managed to get all sections together at the same time. My best scores from the four PCATs: Verbal 81, Biology 66, RC 32, Quant 89, Chemistry 74.

Pharmacy Experience: This is well above average. I have 13+ years of experience. I have had positions in retail, hospital and informatics settings. I can compound intravenous medications and even chemotherapy.

EC: I only have one really: I serve on an advisory committee for a local technical college's pharmacy technician program and have served on it since day 1 in 2001.

Another fact: I am 30 years old and returned to school 3 years ago and began taking my prereqs with a full time course load while continuing to work full time. I have maintained this schedule for 3 years.


I was straight up rejected without an interview at two schools, Campbell and UMKC. I have received interview invitations to 7 schools: Midwestern CCP, University of Hawai'i at Hilo, Sullivan, Belmont, Regis, Wingate, and University of the Incarnate Word. I attended every interview except for UIW. Application fees and travel expenses were not cheap: about $4K total is my estimate. I have yet to tally it up. Thus far, I am on the alternate lists at Midwestern, UHH, Sullivan and Belmont.

I thought my best chance to being admitted for the class of 2013 would be at Regis University since they will (pending ACPE approval) be a new program this fall. No surprise to me, I was accepted there. The real surprise comes from Wingate University. On their website, the average GPA for the entering class in 2006 was 3.6 and the mean PCAT composite was 71. I applied to most of these schools back in August and I completed the supplemental for Wingate in October. I never heard a word from them until about a month ago. I initiated the communication. I emailed the school to inquire about my application's status and as it turns out, I was sent an email to ensure I would have my last prerequisite completed by this spring before my application would be considered for an interview, but I never received it. I confirmed my final class was currently being taken this spring and the very next day I had a phone call with an interview invite. I couldn't believe the voicemail when I listened to it. Wingate? Really? I had just straightened everything out with them the day before. Seems like it was truly meant to be; had I not emailed them, I would never have even interviewed. If you've read about Wingate, at least this year, you'll know that they make their admission decisions the same day of the interview. They interview on Friday's and I live about 18 hours away. I wasn't expecting to have anything in my mailbox until at least Wednesday. To my surprise, I received the acceptance letter on Monday.

I think what set me apart from the rest of the applicants was, IMHO, a killer personal statement and vast experience.

For those of you out there who have lower stats: You can achieve your goals and don't listen to those who say you need a 3.5+ GPA and 80+ PCAT. While GPA and PCAT scores are undoubtedly important to gaining interviews, they are not the sole determining factors and lower scores certainly will not hold you back from being accepted. I am living proof.

during your application process.

 

[tprice108]

Congrats!!...I agree with you and almost despise the people on here that say you need a 3.5 and an 80+ pcat b/c it's certainly not true. What is true though is where one lacks in one area, they must be good in another area (ie you and me). Once again, good job.

 

[SeattleCoug]

This is a great example of how you can show schools that it takes more than just a good GPA and PCAT score to be a great fit for their school.

Congratulations!!!

 

[kidkay]

Congrats...

 

[matt48]

You had 13 years of pharmacy experience in various settings and 8 years serving in the advisory committe in a college for training pharmacy technician. That along with well written personal statement surely made you stand out as an individual. In contrast, the vast majority of pre pharmacy students do not have that kind of experience so a high GPA is necessary.

There are always extreme cases such as people who have 4.00 GPA, obtain a Master or Ph.D degree in science, graduated from Havard or Stanford, and got 95+ PCAT and has little experience in pharmacy and maybe little extra curricular activities. Those cases are extremely rare. The other extreme end would be someone who has more than a decade of pharmacy experience and extracurricular, perfect essay and communication skill with a slightly less than average GPA and PCAT.

People represent either "extreme" end are equally impressive to me, it all depends on how well the interview goes and an acceptance is not that difficult.

 

[biddy]

hello im a student seeking advice getting into the MCPHS after my prerq do i need to take the SAT test.thx.

 

[RXsocal]

Cdhoward,
You have one inspiring story on your hand and I fully appreciate that you share it with us. Hopefully next year, I will have a story just as heartwarming and inspirational to tell those that will apply after me. Like you, my stats are not that great and I'm planning to apply to about 12 schools. Two or three of them are probably long shots. Again, thanks and good luck in pharmacy school!

 

[UWP101]

Congrats!! I have a similar story. I'm still shocked that I have been accepted to 3 schools, waitlisted at one, and rejected from two.
My GPA is a 3.6 and a PCAT comp. of 58 and I'm only a Junior. I was accepted to my top choice University of Wisconsin-Madison.

 

[xxone2trixx]

I thought that I was fighting an uphill battle to enter pharmacy school, so I applied to 12 schools in all and thought my best case scenario would have me interviewing at 2 or 3 schools. So far, I have heard from all but 3 schools. I don’t anticipate hearing from the final three, either.

GPA: 3.15 at the time of application, and 3.05 post academic update. It was ok, but not great and certainly didn’t compensate for my PCAT scores.

PCAT: Well, I have never received a competitive composite score. I’ve taken it 4 times and scored 55, 55, 51, and 56. Now, to be fair, reading comprehension is what pulled my composite scores down so low. I’ve faired well on all sections of the PCAT, I just never managed to get all sections together at the same time. My best scores from the four PCATs: Verbal 81, Biology 66, RC 32, Quant 89, Chemistry 74.

Pharmacy Experience: This is well above average. I have 13+ years of experience. I have had positions in retail, hospital and informatics settings. I can compound intravenous medications and even chemotherapy.

EC: I only have one really: I serve on an advisory committee for a local technical college’s pharmacy technician program and have served on it since day 1 in 2001.

Another fact: I am 30 years old and returned to school 3 years ago and began taking my prereqs with a full time course load while continuing to work full time. I have maintained this schedule for 3 years.


I was straight up rejected without an interview at two schools, Campbell and UMKC. I have received interview invitations to 7 schools: Midwestern CCP, University of Hawai’i at Hilo, Sullivan, Belmont, Regis, Wingate, and University of the Incarnate Word. I attended every interview except for UIW. Application fees and travel expenses were not cheap: about $4K total is my estimate. I have yet to tally it up. Thus far, I am on the alternate lists at Midwestern, UHH, Sullivan and Belmont.

I thought my best chance to being admitted for the class of 2013 would be at Regis University since they will (pending ACPE approval) be a new program this fall. No surprise to me, I was accepted there. The real surprise comes from Wingate University. On their website, the average GPA for the entering class in 2006 was 3.6 and the mean PCAT composite was 71. I applied to most of these schools back in August and I completed the supplemental for Wingate in October. I never heard a word from them until about a month ago. I initiated the communication. I emailed the school to inquire about my application’s status and as it turns out, I was sent an email to ensure I would have my last prerequisite completed by this spring before my application would be considered for an interview, but I never received it. I confirmed my final class was currently being taken this spring and the very next day I had a phone call with an interview invite. I couldn’t believe the voicemail when I listened to it. Wingate? Really? I had just straightened everything out with them the day before. Seems like it was truly meant to be; had I not emailed them, I would never have even interviewed. If you’ve read about Wingate, at least this year, you’ll know that they make their admission decisions the same day of the interview. They interview on Friday’s and I live about 18 hours away. I wasn’t expecting to have anything in my mailbox until at least Wednesday. To my surprise, I received the acceptance letter on Monday.

I think what set me apart from the rest of the applicants was a, IMHO, a killer personal statement and vast experience.

For those of you out there who have lower stats: You can achieve your goals and don’t listen to those who say you need a 3.5+ GPA and 80+ PCAT. While GPA and PCAT scores are undoubtedly important to gaining interviews, they are not the sole determining factors and lower scores certainly will not hold you back from being accepted. I am living proof.

during your application process.

Congrats.

 

[Transformer]

cdhoward, congratulations on your acceptances!

I'm happy for you🙂


For everyone else, let's not lose hope.

 

[fhx06]

Congrats cdhoward. 😀

 

[xshooshix]

I'll take a bite:

3.34 overall GPA. 3.35 prereq GPA. I have two B-, a C, and practically all B+ in my science lecture classes. I did get all As in lab though. I have NO degree.
PCAT 62 (Wayne State looks at your last score.) in 2008. 70 in 2007. Midwestern CPG looks at the highest. I got a 33 the first time I took it. All three times I had reading scores in the high 20s. I swear i'm not illiterate.

I have practically zero job experience (if you count making appointments and cleaning examination rooms at my dad's clinic every summer during break).
My interview at the school I recently got into was less than perfect: I stuttered during one question (read bad interview experience thread) and I left thinking it was a repeat performance from last year when I interviewed. They didn't even look at my credentials at all. Also, I cried during my CPG interview over the question that asked for any hardships in my life. Again, less than perfect.

Despite the many flaws in my application, I applied early (in October), had a good personal statement, and many different areas of pharmacy experience. I was also involved in some research, and I have a publication out. Also, I did mention in my interview that I was a reapplicant, that I was interviewing again at Wayne, and should they decline my acceptance once again (when asked), I told them, "This is what I really want to do with the rest of my life, and I will continue applying until I get in." Also, I think it also helps being the social butterfly when you go to your interviews. Everyone looks and acts like there's a skunk in the room! 😏

 

[luwical]

Congrats CDHoward.

Show Wingate that you are the boss by maintaining a high GPA in pharma school. 😎

Sometimes, it is good to reach up the sky, and show the angels that your weed taste better.

 

[gotmilklol]

hello im a student seeking advice getting into the MCPHS after my prerq do i need to take the SAT test.thx.

This is off-topic

Post another topic or search for it


btw mate
Congratz@

 

[SeattleCoug]

When I first replied, I wasn't going to share my story but I will join in with the other posters.

So, I am by no means an older applicant (27) but I am also not your traditional applicant (fresh out of undergrad). I started college in high school, as part of the Running Start program, where I earned myself the ridiculously low cumulative GPA of 2.51. I transferred to WSU and earned a 3.21 cumulative GPA. At graduation in May 2005 and together with the CC record my cumulative was now a 2.91....not so good! I finished up Econ and Mol Bio lecture and lab with a 3.89 GPA while working full time. So, there is a significant improvement from my CC grades to my last 45 credits GPA and that seemed to help me.

I took the PCAT and did well in all the multiple choice sections (89 composite) but completely killed the writing portion (1.5 and 2). I have about 65 pharmacy volunteer/shadow hours and also have close to 200 hours of volunteer/shadow experience in other health care areas.

During the application process, I didn't help myself much by turning in my applications close to their deadlines. Some of which were mailed on the last possible date. I did manage to get a few out a little bit early, but never more than 2 weeks.

I didn't think that any of the schools would get past my GPA and the writing scores of my PCAT, but I was wrong. When I got my first interview invitation, I was speechless! And then I got another, followed by a third. I could not believe it.

As with most things, the first interview was not my strongest but by the third I felt I had a good handle on how to effectively communicate my ideas. I was waitlisted for the first interview and last Saturday received acceptances for the other two.

There are a lot of schools that will onlly look at your GPA and your PCAT scores, but take the time to really research the school and apply to the ones that you feel parallel your philosophy. The No. 1 ranked school in the country is not going to be the best match for everyone. Develop positive trends and try to get involved in anything (sports, volunteering, donating blood, etc.) to show that you are ready for the challenges of professional school.

Good luck to all the applicants and I hope you are able to find the best match in a program!

 

[extra07extra]

Congrats!

 

[cdhoward]

Congrats!!...I agree with you and almost despise the people on here that say you need a 3.5 and an 80+ pcat b/c it's certainly not true. What is true though is where one lacks in one area, they must be good in another area (ie you and me). Once again, good job.

This is a great example of how you can show schools that it takes more than just a good GPA and PCAT score to be a great fit for their school.

Congratulations!!!

Congrats...

The other extreme end would be someone who has more than a decade of pharmacy experience and extracurricular, perfect essay and communication skill with a slightly less than average GPA and PCAT.

People represent either "extreme" end are equally impressive to me, it all depends on how well the interview goes and an acceptance is not that difficult.

Cdhoward,
You have one inspiring story on your hand and I fully appreciate that you share it with us. Hopefully next year, I will have a story just as heartwarming and inspirational to tell those that will apply after me. Like you, my stats are not that great and I'm planning to apply to about 12 schools. Two or three of them are probably long shots. Again, thanks and good luck in pharmacy school!

Congrats!! I have a similar story. I'm still shocked that I have been accepted to 3 schools, waitlisted at one, and rejected from two.
My GPA is a 3.6 and a PCAT comp. of 58 and I'm only a Junior. I was accepted to my top choice University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Congrats.

cdhoward, congratulations on your acceptances!

I'm happy for you🙂


For everyone else, let's not lose hope.

Congrats cdhoward. 😀

Congrats CDHoward.

Show Wingate that you are the boss by maintaining a high GPA in pharma school. 😎

Sometimes, it is good to reach up the sky, and show the angels that your weed taste better.

Congratz@

Congrats!

Thanks to everyone for your congratulations! I really appreciate it.

And to anyone else with lower stats: post your story here for future reference.

 

[Pharmdapp87]

Congrats Buddy. You're destined for greatness. It's stories like yours and others that keep me motivated and hopeful 🙂

 

[alenadoma]

I love your story, thank you for sharing. I love stories that show perseverence and subsequent success.

Congratulations, you deserve it!! 🙂

 

[applejuju]

I know this may sound ugly, but it seems like to me that no matter how bad of a grade/pcat/experience a person has, if you apply to many many different schools, there's bound to be at least one acceptance. Expesically if you apply to some of the less competitive schools.

I may be wrong, but I always got this notion that for many degrees, if you are willing to pull up the money to pay for some ridiculous tuition, then chances are you can get in.

also, this whole low gpa, high gpa thing, it is totally relative. You can't compare a 3.5 GPA from community college or a "easy to get into university" and a 3.5 from somewhere like Cornell. The competition at the schools are just way off. So when someone gloat that they have high GPA here, I wonder where its from. And when someone is sad about their low GPA, sometimes it may just be a really hard undergrad school.

 

[tprice108]

I know this may sound ugly, but it seems like to me that no matter how bad of a grade/pcat/experience a person has, if you apply to many many different schools, there's bound to be at least one acceptance. Expesically if you apply to some of the less competitive schools.

I may be wrong, but I always got this notion that for many degrees, if you are willing to pull up the money to pay for some ridiculous tuition, then chances are you can get in.

also, this whole low gpa, high gpa thing, it is totally relative. You can't compare a 3.5 GPA from community college or a "easy to get into university" and a 3.5 from somewhere like Cornell. The competition at the schools are just way off. So when someone gloat that they have high GPA here, I wonder where its from. And when someone is sad about their low GPA, sometimes it may just be a really hard undergrad school.

Well in this case, the student had years upon years of experience and that alone was impressive to the admissions committees. You say "no matter how bad a grade/pcat/experience...if you apply to enough you're bound to get in to at least one." I don't necessarily agree. If someone is bad in all three then they will probably not get in (tell me a student that has). If this were the case there wouldn't be hundreds of students left out to dry b/c they didn't get in to any schools.

Bottom line: these students excel in at least ONE area. And of course, if you apply to more schools you raise your chances drastically, thats 5th grade math.

 

[cdhoward]

I know this may sound ugly, but it seems like to me that no matter how bad of a grade/pcat/experience a person has, if you apply to many many different schools, there's bound to be at least one acceptance. Expesically if you apply to some of the less competitive schools.

I may be wrong, but I always got this notion that for many degrees, if you are willing to pull up the money to pay for some ridiculous tuition, then chances are you can get in.

also, this whole low gpa, high gpa thing, it is totally relative. You can't compare a 3.5 GPA from community college or a "easy to get into university" and a 3.5 from somewhere like Cornell. The competition at the schools are just way off. So when someone gloat that they have high GPA here, I wonder where its from. And when someone is sad about their low GPA, sometimes it may just be a really hard undergrad school.

Thanks for raining on the parade of those who may not quite have stats as stellar as yours. We can't all have the luxury of being able to apply to one school and be accepted there.

I interviewed 6 times and have 2 acceptances thus far. Of all my interviews, I was never rejected. I've read of people being rejected post interview at some of these schools. So, I guess in theory, I could have applied to 3 schools. Would I then meet the "apply to many different schools" standard of yours?

I didn't mention where I went to school because for the most part, it is irrelevant to ad coms. For those of you who must know, I attended a community college and that didn't hold me back. I also worked full time and didn't have as much time as someone attending school on mom and dad's dime. Could I have pulled off a 4.0? Sure, but not while working 40+ hrs a week.

Sure, I applied to private schools, but that's the choice I made. I wanted to apply out of state and as an out of state student tuition costs would be about the same for an out of state public school versus a private school. Not to mention, I no longer had to compete for a few spots that are open to state residents as private schools do not have residency restrictions.

If the admissions committee did not believe that a student would excel in their program, they would not have even offered the applicant an interview and certainly would never consider them for admission.

I don't know your story, but you sound like someone who is quite jealous that someone can gain admission with lower than "acceptable" stats. GPA and PCAT scores do not paint the picture of the applicant and that's where ECs come into play. If someone were to not have solid ECs with low stats, they most certainly would not even garner an interview. Just my .02

 

[ValeRx]

CD: While I commend you on your efforts, some of the other posters have a good point. You are only two years older than me, so dont take this the wrong way, but you have an enormous amount of experience. I think the schools you got into were impressed by that, as would most places.

The problem is that 99% of the people in this forum are 19-20 year old kids who have just barely completed their pre-pharm coursework and have no experience to speak of, whether it be life experience or work experience. You cannot compare your 3.05 and 50 composite with theirs because you have something to make up for it. They don't. I got accepted to the first school I interviewed with, with a GPA of 3.18 overall and a 69 PCAT. What got me in? I really couldn't tell you because I had ZERO work experience. The only thing I had going for me was 8 years military service and I had been volunteering in an inpatient pharmacy for about 6 months.

Most of these kids don't have that. Do they need to think they need a 3.9 and a 80+ composite to get in? No, absolutely not because we are proof of that but they DO need SOMETHING extra to put them above the other kids that DO have those stats.

 

[cdhoward]

I agree, ValeUC. I understand that I am the exception and not the rule.

I don't even know how my PCAT scores were viewed. My composite score was never that great, but I scored well in each of the sections except for reading, just not all in the same test. This certainly could have shown competency to some committees. Who knows.

The whole point of my posting was to provide some words of encouragement to those with similar stories while they await their interviews or admission decisions by sharing my story that proves that GPA and PCAT scores are not everything. If they are low, then stellar ECs are necessary to make up the difference.

 

[cdhoward]

And I must ask...

What's up with the stapler?

 

[rxgirly2012]

Sure, I applied to private schools, but that's the choice I made. I wanted to apply out of state and as an out of state student tuition costs would be about the same for an out of state public school versus a private school. Not to mention, I no longer had to compete for a few spots that are open to state residents as private schools do not have residency restrictions.

Amen to that! I am in the exact same boat. I come from a state where there is no state-funded pharmacy school; as a result, if I want to go school, I HAVE to apply out-of-state, or to the ONE private pharmacy school in-state. Now, as cdhoward has already stated, considering that in-state schools are REQUIRED to fill an in-state student quota that heavily gives preference to in-state students, I have virtually NO chance of gaining admission to such a school. As a result, I am left to apply to private schools where I have just an equal chance of gaining admission as anyone else. I really don't think anyone could blame me or anyone else in that position for that.

Also, I really don't believe that it matters that those newer private schools may less competitive to get into; in the end, we're all going to be taking the same NAPLEX, and it won't matter where we graduate from.

***BTW, congrats cdhoward! You are truly an inspiration, and I think it's awesome that you chased after your goal and didn't listen to all those people that said someone can't get in without a super-stellar GPA. It just goes to show that, while important, of course, grades are not the only thing that matter... 🙂

 

[Transformer]

I know this may sound ugly, but it seems like to me that no matter how bad of a grade/pcat/experience a person has, if you apply to many many different schools, there's bound to be at least one acceptance. Expesically if you apply to some of the less competitive schools.

It may seem like no matter how bad your stats are, an applicant can get interviews and even acceptances. This is a perception and absolutely not true for every pharmacy school applicant.

This is my third year applying and I did not get a single interview invite during my first 2 attempts. My experiences and the experiences of many others prove that those with bad stats will not get into pharmacy school; yes, even the less competitive ones.

The reason why you feel this perception seems valid may be because far more accepted applicants post their good news and good stats on SDN. As oppose to the rejected applicants who are currently lurking and are hesitant to share their rejections and lower statistics; thus, you will continue to read more posts regarding acceptances than ones on rejections. (Just my opinion)

 

[applejuju]

Thanks for raining on the parade of those who may not quite have stats as stellar as yours. We can't all have the luxury of being able to apply to one school and be accepted there.

I interviewed 6 times and have 2 acceptances thus far. Of all my interviews, I was never rejected. I've read of people being rejected post interview at some of these schools. So, I guess in theory, I could have applied to 3 schools. Would I then meet the "apply to many different schools" standard of yours?

I didn't mention where I went to school because for the most part, it is irrelevant to ad coms. For those of you who must know, I attended a community college and that didn't hold me back. I also worked full time and didn't have as much time as someone attending school on mom and dad's dime. Could I have pulled off a 4.0? Sure, but not while working 40+ hrs a week.

Sure, I applied to private schools, but that's the choice I made. I wanted to apply out of state and as an out of state student tuition costs would be about the same for an out of state public school versus a private school. Not to mention, I no longer had to compete for a few spots that are open to state residents as private schools do not have residency restrictions.

If the admissions committee did not believe that a student would excel in their program, they would not have even offered the applicant an interview and certainly would never consider them for admission.

I don't know your story, but you sound like someone who is quite jealous that someone can gain admission with lower than "acceptable" stats. GPA and PCAT scores do not paint the picture of the applicant and that's where ECs come into play. If someone were to not have solid ECs with low stats, they most certainly would not even garner an interview. Just my .02

First off, let me give you my stats. It's not totally biased to strong academics. 3.59 GPA, 3.45 Science. 92 on PCAT. 2 years of retail pharmacy. UW is highly competitive, average PCAT scores are in the upper 80s and average prereq GPA is 3.6. I dont stand as a stellar student academically at all. The reason I only applied to 1 school is not because I'm over-confident, its because I only managed to finish pre-reqs for UW since that is the school I'm attending right now. You have no idea now sure i was that I had to continue on for another year of undergrad after my interview.

You are twisting what I said into your own words. I'm not saying applying to the bare minumum, I'm simply saying, apply more = higher chances of getting accepted even if you have low stats. I'm sure if you had lower grades/pcat, you would've applied to more schools to increase your chances. If you have lower stats, I'm not saying you can't get into pharm school, all my point is that applying to lots and lots of schools will almost gaurantee and acceptance (given that they are the less competitive ones). It's my theory, I've got no proof for this but you certainly don't have any proof that a person was rejected to every single pharmacy school.

And by the way, it is completely relevant where you completed your pre-reqs. What actually pisses me off is someone who went to CC and got a 4.0 thinks their 4.0 is the same as someone who went to a full time 4 year college. I attended a few CC classes in high school, and let me tell you, the amount of work you have to put in for a good grade cannot even be compared to that of UW. Just like if someone who pulled off a 3.59 in Harvard applied to UW, I would completely understand if they were accepted instead of me.

And you pretty much stated for me what I wanted to say about choosing easier schools to apply. You said yourself that you picked private partially because it is easier to get in than an out of state public. Hence, applying to these schools is a smart choice, and the more you apply, more your chance of getting in (or more acceptance choices to pick from).

It may seem like no matter how bad your stats are, an applicant can get interviews and even acceptances. This is a perception and absolutely not true for every pharmacy school applicant.

I know, its not true for everybody. I'm just talking about a general trend, a probability. There is an outlier to every situation.

Ok, I get it that this story is special and gives hope to people with low stats. I just wanted to emphasize that you can be smart even with bad grades/pcat etc. In general, applying to many many "less competitive" schools will give you a higher chance of acceptance. I'm not saying there is not hope.

 

[SHC1984]

Congrats on everyone's acceptances! I think the real key to getting accepted is applying EARLY!!!! I think people with lower stats that applied very early can get into at least one school (less competitive ones). My GPA is good but my PCAT is not and I apply very late...so I just hope some schools still have seats available!

And to AppleJ: You are right that a good GPA from a school like Harvard is harder to obtain then from a CC...thats why the PCAT is more important b/c its standardize. 😉

 

[Dysic]

Applejuju,

I don't think you appreciate the achievement cdhoward has accomplished.

Do you think you can work full time and still be a full time student?

Also, he/she got into Wingate (prospected GPA for 2009 applicants; 3.6)

Impressed yet?

I am.

Huge congrats Cdhoward.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Applejuju: I think that your comments are an expression of your opinion and while there are both good and not so good points, it takes away from the point of this post. In my opinion the point was to inspire students who have a dream/goal of being a pharmacist, but may not have the academic record that is always touted, to continue to reach for thier goal. Your story also has a thread on this forum: one application, one interview, one acceptance. Just as impressive but in a different manner.

I don't feel this is a place to put people down because they attend a community college over a 4-year university. I would definitely disagree with you about the quality of the education that you get from a CC. In most cases you get a better education from a CC because your teachers are doing it because they want to. At University is is not uncommon for professors to not even like the teaching, their interests lie in their research.

Having experienced a CC, then going to a 4-year university, and later going back to a CC to finish up prereqs for pharmacy school I would strongly argue with you that the quality of my education at the CC was of equal quality to what I received at my 4-year research university. The argument about an education at Harvard over a state school is a great one. However, not all degrees at these universities are equally prestigious...Yale and Harvard gave degrees to our former President George W Bush.

My point is only to allow this post to convey its original message of inspiration. Not all candidates are created equally and an education and high marks are just one part of a person's qualifications.

Congratulations to all those who were accepted this year for more than your numbers on paper! In the end we are all colleagues and I look forward to learning what you all bring to the table.

 

[PharmPrincess]

I don't think we should be bashing Applejuju on her opinion. I mean, she is entitled to it. It's great that CHoward got in with stats like this. I see this in my own class too. We have a few older students and it became apparent how they (and other students for that matter) got in within a few weeks of school starting. Like this one guy, he is a real talker. We're pretty sure that he wowed the adcoms during the interview which gave him the boost and made them remember him, ya know? and he had the experience too despite the fact he may not be the best student, (and he does involve himself into the cirriculum). So, it just shows to you that some schools will look to the extreme, as one poster pointed out and will consider it.

 

[RXsocal]

AppleJuJu,
I agree with others that this is the wrong thread to be putting down students who come from community college. However, I totally understand where you are coming from. I went to the number one high school in California and earned 3.3 GPA while I could have gone to a normal high school and earned 4.0+. I attended UCSD (which, btw, is ranked higher than UW and emphasizes biology since we're a major research university) I decided to leave UCSD to go back to community college because I felt that I received more attention from teachers who cared about me. To be honest with you, I learned more about Chemistry, Biology, and Physics among many other subjects as well as LIFE at community college than what I did at UCSD. I think it's unappropiate to make sweeping statements on the value of a community college's education. Not everybody has the money to receive such a luxurious education from a prestigious university. Again, the point is that cdhoward gave us an inspirational story that I'm able to use as hope when I apply next year.

 

[touchedarling]

cdhoward, Congrats! I hope your story will inspire people in a positive way and show that there is certainly more to pharm school admissions than just numbers.

 

[touchedarling]

Double post

 

[ValeRx]

And I must ask...

What's up with the stapler?

Somebody complained about my old one, so I changed it until I could find another good one.

 

[applejuju]

I see that my post as driven this thread off topic, so I'm just going to say one last thing

I'm not making any statements about the quality of CC education. My point was that it is just simply easier to get a higher grade at a CC than a full size university. This is my own opinion, and I'm basing it on my personal experience as well as the kind of people I see going to CCs and ivy leagues from my graduating HS class. I understand that not everybody falls into my generalization, but as a whole, the competition (especially when your class is graded on a curve) at these schools are really different. I have a friend who was considered a genius at my HS, graduated 1st in my class, and is struggling at Harvard. Why? because his competition is all the geniuses/prodigies from each HS.

I brought up the subject of CC because when adcoms are looking at a person academically, all they come down to is just a number. Yes, they do look at the person as a whole, but GPA qualifies for a big part of the admission decision, and there is a big difference in the 4.0 from Harvard to a 4.0 from a CC.

For those who attended both a 4 year university and CC, were your grades higher in a CC?

Dysic: everybody has different accomplishments. I may not be able to work full time and go to school full time, but I'm sure there are aspects that I can perform that cdhoward cannot. Do I expect him to appreciate me? Not at all. Appreciation has nothing to do with this.

 

[atticus27]

Cdhoward, you shouldn't have gotten in anywhere with those stats you lazy bum!


I kid, I kid. Congrats!!!

 

[Spock87]

Congrats!! Who cares about what others have to say about community college, low GPA, etc etc etc..... You got IN, that's what matters!! 🙂

 

[Dysic]

Ok juju. You are still missing the point.

This thread is a "feel good" thread. It's a thread about a success that should be an inspiration to others. (pharmacy school applicants with high or low GPA alike)

Your posts to downplay howard's success is very inappropriate for this kind of thread. I mean....what did you expect? I hope it's no surprise to you...that you got flamed.

 

[kimd4]

If CC's were to have the same quality education with the well-known 4 year universities, then why would people go to the 4 yr univ? I mean, CC's are drastically cheaper than the university, so are the students that attend a university stupid then, just wasting their money? If they are the same quality education, the obvious choice would be to go to CC right? and only a fool would go to a university b/c wasting their money for the same education? That's what some of you guys are implying...I guess I'm a fool for going to a university, lol thought I'd never say that 👎

 

[evilolive]

I guess one can always say that a university education always provides more in terms of depth of courses, 'prestige', and academic opportunities above other things, but in terms of purely satisfying course prerequisites, it would be hypocritical to not accept courses from an institution that supposedly teaches the same material. I have my own biases with pharmacy school admissions, but until pharmacy schools choose to require a bachelors as an admissions requirement, it's impossible and unethical to deny students the ability to take their prerequisites at a CC (as medical schools often do). A lot of people try to rationalize the playing field because they didn't have the money to pay for a university education while working to support themselves. It's not fair, and I can understand the complaints from that side, but ultimately life still ain't very fair. I'm surprised that there's no outrage against medical schools for not accepting CC prerequisite courses because they're "looked down upon" in terms of quality, but suggest the slightest inclination on the pharmacy forums, and a tirade ensues...

 

[cinnamoroll12]

AppleJuJu,
I agree with others that this is the wrong thread to be putting down students who come from community college. However, I totally understand where you are coming from. I went to the number one high school in California and earned 3.3 GPA while I could have gone to a normal high school and earned 4.0+. I attended UCSD (which, btw, is ranked higher than UW and emphasizes biology since we're a major research university) I decided to leave UCSD to go back to community college because I felt that I received more attention from teachers who cared about me. To be honest with you, I learned more about Chemistry, Biology, and Physics among many other subjects as well as LIFE at community college than what I did at UCSD. I think it's unappropiate to make sweeping statements on the value of a community college's education. Not everybody has the money to receive such a luxurious education from a prestigious university. Again, the point is that cdhoward gave us an inspirational story that I'm able to use as hope when I apply next year.

Haha...oh goodness, we're still arguing about whose school (mine or yours) is number 1 in CA. You know mine is #1. 😉

Yes, I agree with you regarding quality education at a CC when I was a student at your CC before I transferred to UCSD. Did you have Rajab for bio? I enjoyed being in his classes so much! I took Mammalian Physiology at UCSD and then retook it at the CC again. Although I earned an A at the CC, I actually had a chance to grasp the concepts better there.

Without opening a major discussion, I'd like to congratulate cdhoward for his achievement in receiving interview invites from most of the schools he applied to, as well as receiving 2 acceptances! See, your hard work has been paid off! 🙂

 

[diastole]

If CC's were to have the same quality education with the well-known 4 year universities, then why would people go to the 4 yr univ? I mean, CC's are drastically cheaper than the university, so are the students that attend a university stupid then, just wasting their money? If they are the same quality education, the obvious choice would be to go to CC right? and only a fool would go to a university b/c wasting their money for the same education? That's what some of you guys are implying...I guess I'm a fool for going to a university, lol thought I'd never say that 👎

I attended both and I like my education at a CC more than at a university. I attended UCLA and the profs there aren't teaching because they want to be. They are there to do research. At a CC, most are there because they like to teach. They are much more accessible. I can ask questions during class and not feel like I'm wasting the time of 100+ other students. The tests aren't as challenging and the students generally aren't as overachieving but I think I'm learning more in my CC classes because I have so much more access to the profs.

That said, the university offers much more opportunities to do research, or to join clubs, or to network. You can also live on campus and have the whole student experience. If you take advantage of those opportunities, it is worth paying for the university. If you are just looking at cost, you can get a quality education out of a CC if you put in the effort.

Oh and congrats to the original poster. I have, let's count them, 5 Fs on my transcripts and a withdrawn quarter and got accepted. Academic forgiveness is a wonderful thing. 😀

 

[dreezy10]

I see that my post as driven this thread off topic, so I'm just going to say one last thing

I'm not making any statements about the quality of CC education. My point was that it is just simply easier to get a higher grade at a CC than a full size university. This is my own opinion, and I'm basing it on my personal experience as well as the kind of people I see going to CCs and ivy leagues from my graduating HS class. I understand that not everybody falls into my generalization, but as a whole, the competition (especially when your class is graded on a curve) at these schools are really different. I have a friend who was considered a genius at my HS, graduated 1st in my class, and is struggling at Harvard. Why? because his competition is all the geniuses/prodigies from each HS.

I brought up the subject of CC because when adcoms are looking at a person academically, all they come down to is just a number. Yes, they do look at the person as a whole, but GPA qualifies for a big part of the admission decision, and there is a big difference in the 4.0 from Harvard to a 4.0 from a CC.

For those who attended both a 4 year university and CC, were your grades higher in a CC?

Dysic: everybody has different accomplishments. I may not be able to work full time and go to school full time, but I'm sure there are aspects that I can perform that cdhoward cannot. Do I expect him to appreciate me? Not at all. Appreciation has nothing to do with this.

HAHA, Applejuju is getting hammered!!!

CD did have an amazing accomplishment! but i can see some of juju's points as well, he just has more of a realistic view. I would say for every 100 applicants that have the stats and story CD has, probly 5% get in. CD's story is amazing, you deserve congrats!!!!!! and juju can get some of that congrats also, in my opinion, if you make it into pharm school, you deserve props, plain and simple.

 

[wannaBpharmD]

cd and diastole,

If it means anything to you, you literally made my year. I'm in the middle of finals and am ready to cry my eyes out for the 4th time this week but you guys seriously motivated me to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Thanks!

And diastole-- I seriously laughed out loud when I read your member name. I'm taking human phys right now and god that's cute...

 

[fhx06]

cd and diastole,

If it means anything to you, you literally made my year. I'm in the middle of finals and am ready to cry my eyes out for the 4th time this week but you guys seriously motivated me to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Thanks!

And diastole-- I seriously laughed out loud when I read your member name. I'm taking human phys right now and god that's cute...

We've all been there, standing on the edge of what looks like a valley of endless multiple choice questions... but you'll get through it. 🙂

Srsly, let's not waste this Feel Good, Inc. mood and just dance.

 

[cdhoward]

Congrats Buddy. You're destined for greatness. It's stories like yours and others that keep me motivated and hopeful 🙂

I love your story, thank you for sharing. I love stories that show perseverence and subsequent success.

Congratulations, you deserve it!! 🙂

***BTW, congrats cdhoward! You are truly an inspiration, and I think it's awesome that you chased after your goal and didn't listen to all those people that said someone can't get in without a super-stellar GPA. It just goes to show that, while important, of course, grades are not the only thing that matter... 🙂

Congrats on everyone's acceptances! I think the real key to getting accepted is applying EARLY!!!! I think people with lower stats that applied very early can get into at least one school (less competitive ones). My GPA is good but my PCAT is not and I apply very late...so I just hope some schools still have seats available!

And to AppleJ: You are right that a good GPA from a school like Harvard is harder to obtain then from a CC...thats why the PCAT is more important b/c its standardize. 😉

Applejuju,

I don't think you appreciate the achievement cdhoward has accomplished.

Do you think you can work full time and still be a full time student?

Also, he/she got into Wingate (prospected GPA for 2009 applicants; 3.6)

Impressed yet?

I am.

Huge congrats Cdhoward.

Congratulations to all those who were accepted this year for more than your numbers on paper! In the end we are all colleagues and I look forward to learning what you all bring to the table.

cdhoward, Congrats! I hope your story will inspire people in a positive way and show that there is certainly more to pharm school admissions than just numbers.

Cdhoward, you shouldn't have gotten in anywhere with those stats you lazy bum!


I kid, I kid. Congrats!!!

Congrats!! Who cares about what others have to say about community college, low GPA, etc etc etc..... You got IN, that's what matters!! 🙂

I'd like to congratulate cdhoward for his achievement in receiving interview invites from most of the schools he applied to, as well as receiving 2 acceptances! See, your hard work has been paid off! 🙂

Oh and congrats to the original poster. I have, let's count them, 5 Fs on my transcripts and a withdrawn quarter and got accepted. Academic forgiveness is a wonderful thing. 😀

CD did have an amazing accomplishment! but i can see some of juju's points as well, he just has more of a realistic view. I would say for every 100 applicants that have the stats and story CD has, probly 5% get in. CD's story is amazing, you deserve congrats!!!!!! and juju can get some of that congrats also, in my opinion, if you make it into pharm school, you deserve props, plain and simple.

cd and diastole,

If it means anything to you, you literally made my year. I'm in the middle of finals and am ready to cry my eyes out for the 4th time this week but you guys seriously motivated me to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Thanks!

And diastole-- I seriously laughed out loud when I read your member name. I'm taking human phys right now and god that's cute...

Thanks to all of you. I appreciate all of your congratulations.

 

[cdhoward]

I think the real key to getting accepted is applying EARLY!!!! I think people with lower stats that applied very early can get into at least one school (less competitive ones). My GPA is good but my PCAT is not and I apply very late...so I just hope some schools still have seats available!

I forgot to expressly mention this. I did apply early and to mainly rolling admissions school. When most people wait up until the deadline to apply, why not take advantage? That said, I don't know if that helped me to get an interview at Wingate. I emailed them after not hearing from them for so long.

So, if you have not heard from some of the schools to which you applied, go ahead and email/phone them to see what may be holding up your application. Had I not done this with Wingate, I would never have been accepted there, much less receive an interview.

 

[pencils]

i used to read these types of stories religiously last year and now i am one of them as well

sgpa: 2.7
cgpa:2.9
pcat:71
experience: 3 years tech experience
pharmcas: esubmitted in july
undergrad: ucla
attending: midwestern ccp

not gonna lie, i messed up during my undergrad years, i shaped up, have straight a's for the past 30 units, ive taken both ucla and cc classes, some ppl may get mad that my stats arent as fantastic as theirs but hey ucla is hard =)

what got me in? id say my interview... bc i didnt say something like "i want to be a pharmacist bc i dont want to be a doctor" as great and honest as those reasons may be, they are mundane. i talked about mtm, pbms, i did my research and i found it very funny that other people didnt

moral of MY story... stop askin people if your stats will get you in, everyone will say its not good enough if its not well over 3.0 and 80%, just do your thing, study hard for the classes you have now, get good lors, write the personal statement of your life, and seriously understand what youre getting into, because that is what will make your answers in an interview stand out (especially if you are less than a shoe in)

and will i survive pharmacy school? its hard for everyone once you get there, and most schools have very low attrition rates, with naplex rates usually in the 90%. so yea if i do my part and study im thinking that i'll be ok

and if there are any comments to my post i will not respond bc the past year, sdn has been the bane of my existence, as helpful as it was, it stressed me out 10xs more because of what other ppl were saying

so good day and GOODLUCK