Dec 16, 2019
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Loyola Stritch SSOM

Pros
  • Jesuit values, would absolutely love to go to a school that emphasizes these
  • Trauma center, burn center, cancer center, etc. = learning opportunities right on campus
  • Higher ranking?: 61st by residency directors, 88 USNews - not sure if big enough difference
  • Derm residency department, and Skin Cancer center
  • 20-30 minute drive west of Chicago (Maywood), more opportunities for possible research at other institutions, away rotations in Chicago
    • And city living, more exciting than MSU
  • No attendance required for lectures, I learn well with recorded lectures
  • Wife has more job options
  • Could live in same place all 4 years
Cons
  • Cost: out of state tuition $59,000
  • Distance from home (3.5 hour drive), although my wife and I do have some friends and family in Chicago
    • Worry about wife being more lonely in Chicago
  • Cost of living: would have to rent an apartment
  • Exams every 2 weeks I believe (could be Neutral)
  • Unsure on Derm research options
  • Don’t want to match in Illinois (would prefer Michigan)
Michigan State CHM

Pros
  • Close to friends and family (1 hour 20 minutes from home)
    • Great for my wife’s quality of life
  • Currently in research lab - however, not in the specialty I’m interested in (heard that helps for residency match)
  • Cost: in state tuition $31,000
  • Could afford to buy a house
  • Low stress atmosphere, exams twice a semester - more time to study for boards? (see Cons)
  • Derm research department
  • Want to match in Michigan
Cons
  • Lower ranking: 83rd by residency directors, unranked USNews - really worried about not being able to match into competitive specialties
  • Primary care focus
  • No Derm Residency program
  • Less job options for wife, but still doable
  • Attendance required for lectures, lots of small group activities which could eat into Step study time
  • Might have to move after 2 pre-clinical years, would prefer to stay same place all 4 years
    • Rotations seem to be all over the state

BOTH SCHOOLS - NEUTRAL:
  • The curriculums:
    • MSU is based on “chief complaints”, so I think it sounds more systems based, any thoughts?
    • Loyola is traditional blocks
  • Honors: Unsure how either determine AOA or honors, something I am looking in to.
Summary:
I am really excited about the opportunities that Loyola and living near Chicago provide, but am unsure if Loyola increases my chances of matching into derm enough to warrant the move and the cost, when Michigan State is cheaper and closer to home. It seems like research in derm would be easier to get into at MSU, while Loyola has a derm residency program but unsure on research opportunities.
 

LizzyM

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What's the net price at each place including living expenses and taking into account any merit money thrown your way? What is your wife's earning power in Illinois vs Michigan?

You've got your costs of one and the other. You've got your (wife's) income at one and the other. What's the difference between the two? Is that dollar amount worth it to choose the more expensive school?

Keep in mind, too, that it is not common to match in derm at the school you attended for med school. I'd wager that most derm residents attended elsewhere. So, don't put a high premium on which school has a derm residency. Also, wishing to match in derm is somewhat like saying you'd like to play quarterback for UMichigan. You might be good but not that good and will have to be satisfied with playing intramural touch football at a community college. You good with that? (not saying you won't be the next Tom Brady of dermatology but you need to consider the alternatives).
 
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Goro

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Go with the cheaper tuition and COA.

Just because MSU has a Derm program, that doesn't mean it's a good one. Pre-meds get all starry-eyed at university residencies, but only our wise SDN residents and attendings can tell you if it's a god program or not.

And targeting a school based upon its match list in general is a fool's errand. Getting into that residency is more on you than the school.
 
Mar 28, 2020
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Does MSUCHM have required lecture attendance? Based on this comment I thought that MSUCHM was less structured and had less required attendance as compared to a school like OUWB. The independence seems like a pro for the school
4th year CHMer here, 2nd cohort of the SDC curriculum: While I agree with parts of this post, I think it is unfair to say that MSU CHM is a failure altogether when it comes to educating and preparing us for ultimately applying to residency. Now to break down everything that was mentioned in this post:

1. Please understand that the SDC is NOT for everyone. The way it is structured basically does away with lectures (yes you will still meet in large groups but that is then broken up into small group discussions) and solely focuses on PBL style learning of all your core competencies. Therefore transitioning from undergrad where you had lectures of 400+ students and a professor to complete, independent learning is hard. You have to know this going into the curriculum and be prepared to take ownership of your learning which includes finding other resources that will help you master the material and figure out how you study best (flashcards, study groups, tutors, watching videos, etc.) And to be frank, this is how it'll be like with many medical schools, where most of your learning is just independent study. The pros of this is how much free time you get to do your own thing instead of being bogged down by constant exams, everything was formative when I was going through M1/M2 years (cannot speak to any changes recently).

2. M1 year consists of rotating through outpatient FM, IM, or peds clinics mainly functioning as an MA role in the beginning then moving onto shadowing the actual physician and ends with seeing patients on your own. M2 year then transitions into inpatient rotations including more involved ones like Adult Wards (Inpatient IM), Peds, EM, Newborn... to rotations where all you do is just shadow like what was mentioned (Nursing, SW, PT). I agree with how these rotations might be considered a waste of time but at the same time, you get what you put in. Learning how these resources worked and what a referral to PT or SW will only help you down the line when you are the attending consulting these services. Then since these rotations require much less from you in terms of clinical hours and assignments, there will be lots more free time to focus on your own Step studying and at the end of the day it all balances out.

In the very end, most of my peers and I got where we needed to go. We all felt prepared for M3/M4 year, my only criticism there is that our core clerkships are significantly shortened from traditional 8 weeks of IM to just 4 weeks because of the early exposure to Adult wards we get in 2nd year is somehow supposed to make up for that. I did just fine on Step 1 and Step 2, most to my own merit and self studying and almost none to the curriculum because if I depended on it, I would not succeed so the earlier you realize what works for you the better you will do. What the curriculum lacks in is made up by the freedom and autonomy we are given to structure our own learning to what works for us and the focus on early clinical experiences definitely prepares you better to succeed in M3 year on your clerkships. Bottom line, if you need a lot of hand holding and clear instructions of how/what to study, you will struggle here but if you are up to the challenge then CHM has a lot to offer. The match results last year were amazing and I believe, despite COVID this year, my class will match pretty well too. I hope that helps and feel free to post any other questions you may have!
 

Swaglikemurph

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No, because PDs will use Step 2. The vibe that "PDs will use school reputation" is mostly pre-med and med student angst.
Thanks for sharing this. Do you think PDs for specialties that traditionally participated in an earlier match i.e. ophtho & urology will subscribe to this? As planning to have Step 2 in for those applications may take more of a conscious effort
 

Goro

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Thanks for sharing this. Do you think PDs for specialties that traditionally participated in an earlier match i.e. ophtho & urology will subscribe to this? As planning to have Step 2 in for those applications may take more of a conscious effort
Nobody really knows.
 
Sep 17, 2020
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Does MSUCHM have required lecture attendance? Based on this comment I thought that MSUCHM was less structured and had less required attendance as compared to a school like OUWB. The independence seems like a pro for the school

MSU CHM has required PBL attendance, but its curriculum doesn't use a traditional lecture format -- this is where the idea of flexibility comes from. There's also a fair bit of required clinical time (essentially you're an MA) as soon as your first few weeks. Most students use third-party resources to supplement the provided curriculum outlines/study guides.

I'm not a student, but have reached out to multiple students not associated with the admissions committee. FWIW, most recommended going elsewhere, especially if you're someone who needs structure, and time alone to learn.
 
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CHMer2021

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Does MSUCHM have required lecture attendance? Based on this comment I thought that MSUCHM was less structured and had less required attendance as compared to a school like OUWB. The independence seems like a pro for the school

Yes there is still required lecture attendance. To give you a more in depth answer: each week as a first year you are required to attend 1 Large group lecture with your entire class, 2 PBL small group sessions, 1 anatomy session, 1 Histology/Pathology session, and two 4-hour clinic shifts in a primary care office. As the comment above states, the flexility comes from the idea that this is not a traditional curriculum and there are no constant exams and no formal grades other than P/F based on your performance on progress suite exams. Hence more freedom to customize your own learning with outside resources.

I'll be honest, I felt a lot of the clinical responsibilities became repetitive and a "waste of time" since it took me away from my Step 1 studies but looking back as an M4 now, it all worked out because it really pushed me to be proactive of my studying and figure out quickly what works and doesn't work for me. As I mentioned before, this curriculum is not made for everyone so take that into account when choosing which school is best for you.
 

Talldoctor96

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FYI at loyola we don't have tests every 2 weeks thats a misnomer, theres research in every specialty including Derm, Its a huge academic center with a quaternary level hospital. Theres research going on in every single department. Also, rent is dirtttt cheap and we match well anywhere in midwest including michigan.
 
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Dec 16, 2019
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FYI at loyola we don't have tests every 2 weeks thats a misnomer, theres research in every specialty including Derm, Its a huge academic center with a quaternary level hospital. Theres research going on in every single department. Also, rent is dirtttt cheap and we match well anywhere in midwest including michigan.

Thank you! Love to hear that. How often are exams?
Also, I tried to find more information on research opportunities on Stritch’s website, but couldn’t find much. Is that information we’ll get once we enroll?
 
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Talldoctor96

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Thank you! Love to hear that. How often are exams?
Also, I tried to find more information on research opportunities on Stritch’s website, but couldn’t find much. Is that information we’ll get once we enroll?
Yes, it’s information you get when you enroll. You have to remember you’re literally on the same campus as the quaternary care center. It’s a huge hospital serving the entire chicsgo community. There’s research going on in every single department: I’m currently doing orthopedic research.
Right now exams are every 4 weeks. I love it this way. You have time to chill, but also you know the tests can only have so much material than if you wait 8 weeks. Gives you a chance to do better on the next one too if u don’t do so hot on the first
 
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