LUCOM Hate

[Orlandoc]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[kfox926]

I went to their open house last year and it was very very religious. We prayed multiple times during the open house and they put major emphasis on god being the ultimate healer. Im personally not into religion, I believe in the science behind things. However, there are people who find this medical school comforting to their religious beliefs and to those people I don't judge, I wish them well. It's just not a setting that I would be comfortable in for 4 years.

 

[Goro]

I know that LUCOM doesn't get much love on SDN. The two major reasons I find are:

1. New school
2. Strict rules

Assuming I'm okay with the fact that it's a new school and assuming I'm okay with the rules, are there any other major negative points I should be concerned about?

You forgot abhorrent politics of their parent organization.

Faculty who don't know what they're doing....based multiple student PMS to me.

 

[cactusman]

Their UG teaches that young Earth creationism is the most likely explanation for our world's existence and the diversity of life, which suggests they're not interested in providing a strong science education.

 

[Ho0v-man]

There are negatives about every school.
Putting the religious stuff aside, the big one for me would be the high attrition.

 

[kuzy]

They were founded by Jerry Falwell, a man who has said (among other things) that the 9/11 attacks happened due to our society's tolerance of LGBTQ individuals...need I say more?

 

[KaapstadMK]

Aight, look. Everybody's ragging on LUCOM here because of the UG. I get it - I went to the UG and, honestly, just because UG teaches Young Earth doesn't mean they don't understand Evolutionary Theory or do bad science.

Secondly, the med school is physically separated and in terms of ethos and feel is very much different from the undergrad.

Do we have a code of conduct? Yes, but it's more about emphasising professionalism than it is shoving strict religious mores down the students' throats. Is our entire class Christian? Not at all - we have Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Mormon, and Agnostic students that I know of and likely a couple other beliefs represented as well. Are our professors outwardly Christian? Yes. Do they pray before every lecture? Most do. Do the faculty force the students to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour? No, but they would definitely love to build the relationship with their individual students enough to at least ask.

We have an excellent faculty who've come from a variety of schools - from what I hear some have even taken pay cuts to be here. If the only hesitation is speculation and fearmongering based on the UG or the non-Christian rumour mill, then take the investment and at least go to an open house to see for yourself what the ethos of the school is and whether or not you like it.

 

[cactusman]

Do we have a code of conduct? Yes, but it's more about emphasising professionalism than it is shoving strict religious mores down the students' throats.

I didn't realize that private, off-campus drinking, premarital sex, and homosexuality are unprofessional.

 

[KaapstadMK]

Sometimes you gotta pick the hills you want to die on.

What's more professional:
- to insist upon your constitutionally-given rights to the pursuit of happiness as you best define it
or
- to operate within the code of conduct given to you for a short period of time by an institution seeking to further your career and future through education

At the end of the day, LUCOM's not the only medical school. If that's a trade-off you're not willing to make, then pick a different school, but don't defame a school for making a code of conduct that is concurrent with their beliefs when they have the full right to do so,

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I didn't realize that private, off-campus drinking, premarital sex, and homosexuality are unprofessional.

As someone who went to an undergrad with these same rules all I can say is that the expectations are very clear before someone even applies. It's not about professionalism as it is underlying religious belief, and when you go to or even apply to a religious institution then you sign up for what that means. If you don't want to live the rules then don't apply, it's really that simple. Or someone can decide that they are willing to comply for the 4 years they are in school.

 

[cactusman]

As someone who went to an undergrad with these same rules all I can say is that the expectations are very clear before someone even applies. It's not about professionalism as it is underlying religious belief, and when you go to or even apply to a religious institution then you sign up for what that means. If you don't want to live the rules then don't apply, it's really that simple. Or someone can decide that they are willing to comply for the 4 years they are in school.

I don't disagree that LUCOM has a right to make these rules, but I think they're pretty clearly religious values rather than basic professionalism, and applicants should be aware that they extend beyond that.

 

[strider144]

I didn't realize that private, off-campus drinking, premarital sex, and homosexuality are unprofessional.

Yep, this. Policing sexual orientation is not about professionalism. Don't kid yourself.

Hopefully folks know what they're signing up for (and don't have any important moments of self-discovery in that arena), but that doesn't change the fact that it's a bad rule.

 

[pseud0]

The main negative point is that it's....Liberty University...


I would never give money to an organization created by this evil POS

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I don't disagree that LUCOM has a right to make these rules, but I think they're pretty clearly religious values rather than basic professionalism, and applicants should be aware that they extend beyond that.

I agree, but it's silly to hammer a religious school because they happen to actually enforce their honor code. Of course it's about religious values, that's the point. If people are applying here and are caught off guard by the expectations when they get to orientation then it's their fault for not even doing a little bit of research. I don't like Liberty in general but it's not because of their honor code. LLU does the same thing and people don't say boo on here

 

[leturbinator]

Don't mind me, just sipping this t and enjoying this shade.

 

[austintr]

No horse in this race but are you going to stand your ground and not buy and or use Dubin's EKG book once you get into med school?

Willing to wager a large sum of money you will, which then begs the question: are you ok with giving money to a pedophile?.

I had forgotten about Dubin being a perv, but his ECG book was instrumental in me learning ECGs in paramedic school. He may have done coke and scoped out naked pictures of kids, but dude knew how to simplify things.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

All Ill say is this....if you get into LUCOM and its the only school you get into....you're going to go most likely so just suck it up for 4 years and you're done

 

[Geo16]

Their UG teaches that young Earth creationism is the most likely explanation for our world's existence and the diversity of life, which suggests they're not interested in providing a strong science education.

Planning to take Evolution as my Upper Division req. Gone get rekt when they see my transcript.

 

[Magulick81]

This thread just reminds me of in college how the students that would fail a class would say "that professor is horrible"... it's all what you make of it. I would attend here tomorrow if they offered an acceptance and I think the majority of individuals whom really want to become a physician would say the same.

 

[kuzy]

This thread just reminds me of in college how the students that would fail a class would say "that professor is horrible"... it's all what you make of it. I would attend here tomorrow if they offered an acceptance and I think the majority of individuals whom really want to become a physician would say the same.

Ehrm...not quite. No one here has gone to Liberty and failed out, we simply have problems with the parent organization (and rightly so) as well as the teaching of young earth creationism to their undergraduate students. Heck, I'd go as far to say that I would expect a better business education from Trump University than I would an undergraduate biology education from LU.

That being said, as a private instution it is still their right to do so. If LUCOM was an applicants only acceptance, then I can see why one might reconcile their own beliefs to temporarily meet the outrageous rules of LU's community in order to become a physician. But do not say that critics of LU are just bitter pre-med students who would attend if they had to. That is not the case, and saying so lessens valid concerns about both LU's curriculum and the beliefs of the religious zealots who founded it

 

[Magulick81]

Ehrm...not quite. No one here has gone to Liberty and failed out, we simply have problems with the parent organization (and rightly so) as well as the teaching of young earth creationism to their undergraduate students. Heck, I'd go as far to say that I would expect a better business education from Trump University than I would an undergraduate biology education from LU.

That being said, as a private instution it is still their right to do so. If LUCOM was an applicants only acceptance, then I can see why one might reconcile their own beliefs temporarily to meet the outrageous rules of LU's community in order to become a physician. But do not say that critics of LU are just bitter pre-med students who would attend if they had to. That is not the case, and saying so lessens valid concerns about both LU's curriculum and the beliefs of the religious zealots who founded it

Are you a current med student there? Because from what i've heard their medical school is different than their undergrad institution.

 

[Magulick81]

And I wasn't referring to LUCOM undergrad students I just used "undergrad students" as an analogy so you may have misinterpreted that

 

[kuzy]

I am not, but I have heard that as well. But no matter how separate they are in terms of faculty, facilities, or belief in fundamental biological principles, it's still a degree from Liberty University, I'd still have to follow their laughable rules, and my tuition money would still (in some form) be going towards the Falwell's.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Liberty has gotten pretty lax. I don't even go to Liberty and when I'm "chilling" with dudes from there it seems like I'm the one who cares about keeping the whole gay thing on the DL. Just the other day I had to remind one that I'm not cool with PDA (he committed the act on a busy part of Liberty campus, like it was nothing.)

They say the reputation of a school is about a generation out of date. Nonetheless, I would never go to LU.

 

[deleted600623]

Where on the list of importance for residency programs is where you went to school? Just curious.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Where on the list of importance for residency programs is where you went to school? Just curious.

Very important.

Edit: if you just mean DO schools then the answer is "not very important" as a DO is a DO in the eyes of most PDs. You can get a slightly boost at programs in the surrounding region simply by familiarity.

 

[deleted600623]

@AnatomyGrey12 Above board scores and clinical grades? I'm just wondering if two students are competing for a residency spot but the one who went to LUCOM has the higher board scores and clinical grades over someone who went to, say ATSU, who would get in?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

@AnatomyGrey12 Above board scores and clinical grades? I'm just wondering if two students are competing for a residency spot but the one who went to LUCOM has the higher board scores and clinical grades over someone who went to, say ATSU, who would get in?

For DO schools it doesn't matter.

 

[deleted600623]

For DO schools it doesn't matter.

Sorry can you clarify what doesn't matter?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Sorry can you clarify what doesn't matter?

The name of your DO school doesn't matter generally. What matters is your board scores, letters, clinical grades, and DO programs place a lot of emphasis on auditions. Now certain programs probably have familiarity with certain school's grads and may give them slight preference.

It also can be influenced by geography, the field, what type of programs you are applying to (traditionally DO vs. MD). Your question is a little broad

 

[deleted600623]

@AnatomyGrey12 Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the broad question. I plan to pursue rural FM or IM in the NW. But by the time I'm applying to residency programs the merger will be complete so that may affect things as well.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I plan to pursue rural FM or IM in the NW.

For these fields it won't matter a bit.

 

[deleted600623]

@AnatomyGrey12 Awesome, good to know!

 

[Wonwander]

So since many of the faculty and professors don't believe in the common basic concensus of evolution, does this worry anyone about how they value the rest of the science taught?
Yes teaching evolution has nothing to do with learning medicine, but does knowing that you're education comes from such a place that doesn't believe in it make it laughable?

Like if I went to that school and got the same board score as another candidate for a residency position, is there any chance that I won't be taken seriously and be less competitive because of it?

For the non-Christians here, do you think the belief (or disbelief) of a school could affect your education?

 

[Robin-jay]

So since many of the faculty and professors don't believe in the common basic concensus of evolution, does this worry anyone about how they value the rest of the science taught?
Yes teaching evolution has nothing to do with learning medicine, but does knowing that you're education comes from such a place that doesn't believe in it make it laughable?

Like if I went to that school and got the same board score as another candidate for a residency position, is there any chance that I won't be taken seriously and be less competitive because of it?

For the non-Christians here, do you think the belief (or disbelief) of a school could affect your education?

I don't think there is any correlation between intelligence and religious beliefs.

 

[de Ribas]

So since many of the faculty and professors don't believe in the common basic concensus of evolution, does this worry anyone about how they value the rest of the science taught?
Yes teaching evolution has nothing to do with learning medicine, but does knowing that you're education comes from such a place that doesn't believe in it make it laughable?

Like if I went to that school and got the same board score as another candidate for a residency position, is there any chance that I won't be taken seriously and be less competitive because of it?

For the non-Christians here, do you think the belief (or disbelief) of a school could affect your education?

I do not think that religion has anything to do with education or quality of education.

I think education depends on institution, professors, standards, values, mission, finances to provide necessary means for quality education.

Quite many famous scientists, who were also religious, lead to many significant discoveries.

When science does not go into religion and religion does not go into science both perform quite well.

Science is science, religion is a religion.

 

[Robin-jay]

I do not think that religion has anything to do with education or quality of education.

I think education depends on institution, professors, standards, values, mission, finances to provide necessary means for quality education.

Quite many famous scientists, who were also religious, lead to many significant discoveries.

When science does not go into religion and religion does not go into science both perform quite well.

Science is science, religion is a religion.

Yep, Pasha is correct.

For example, @Wonwander , do you know if your physics professor was christian or not?

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

So since many of the faculty and professors don't believe in the common basic concensus of evolution, does this worry anyone about how they value the rest of the science taught?
Yes teaching evolution has nothing to do with learning medicine, but does knowing that you're education comes from such a place that doesn't believe in it make it laughable?

Like if I went to that school and got the same board score as another candidate for a residency position, is there any chance that I won't be taken seriously and be less competitive because of it?

For the non-Christians here, do you think the belief (or disbelief) of a school could affect your education?

Get good board scores and do well on your clinical rotations. The only concern with LUCOM that was brought up to me by a few residency directors was that it was new and had not graduated any students yet.

Nothing in regards to LU's mission was brought up.

 

[universoparalelo]

I didn't realize that private, off-campus drinking, premarital sex, and homosexuality are unprofessional.

Can you get kicked out for being gay? Isn't that discrimination?

 

[YeezyQ]

In my opinion, this is all overhyped. I plan on applying here next cycle and would gladly take an acceptance if it was the best choice. Anyways, I took time and did research on this school and found an article on a local news page (can't remember the link) and it was a non-christian medical student. Here, she talked about how her first thought was that everyone would be judging her but she quickly realized that they embrace diversity. I have done a few google searches and have seen that LUCOM does in fact host some diversity events. As a premed, I obviously don't know jack, but still, I think we need to do more critical thinking and not just throw a whole program out the window because we don't agree with their viewpoints. In fact, I'd rather have a challenge and meet with people whom I disagree with and try to understand why they think those behaviors are unprofessional.

 

[de Ribas]

Can you get kicked out for being gay? Isn't that discrimination?

You mean for becoming one during the school there?
or you mean not getting accepted for being one?

Why would anyone apply there where one will not feel comfortable?

 

[thenewyorker1995!]

Ehrm...not quite. No one here has gone to Liberty and failed out, we simply have problems with the parent organization (and rightly so) as well as the teaching of young earth creationism to their undergraduate students. Heck, I'd go as far to say that I would expect a better business education from Trump University than I would an undergraduate biology education from LU.

That being said, as a private instution it is still their right to do so. If LUCOM was an applicants only acceptance, then I can see why one might reconcile their own beliefs to temporarily meet the outrageous rules of LU's community in order to become a physician. But do not say that critics of LU are just bitter pre-med students who would attend if they had to. That is not the case, and saying so lessens valid concerns about both LU's curriculum and the beliefs of the religious zealots who founded it

That's funny because I can think of 6 people of the top of my head who have graduated from LU undergrad for biology and are all going to some top tier schools. Kind of a very blind statement for you to make about a program only based off the fact that they teach creation, and they also do teach evolution they just do not endorse the ideas of it. But it's okay that you only get a single perspective on the creation of the Earth, I forget how well rounded that makes you.

 

[kuzy]

That's funny because I can think of 6 people of the top of my head who have graduated from LU undergrad for biology and are all going to some top tier schools. Kind of a very blind statement for you to make about a program only based off the fact that they teach creation, and they also do teach evolution they just do not endorse the ideas of it. But it's okay that you only get a single perspective on the creation of the Earth, I forget how well rounded that makes you.

There are no "perspectives" on evolution and the origin of the planet. There is what is right and what is wrong. I think teaching creationism as an alternative to evolutionary theory is absurd, and I would hope that anyone entering a scientific field such as medicine would believe the same.

 

[de Ribas]

There are no "perspectives" on evolution and the origin of the planet. There is what is right and what is wrong. I think teaching creationism as an alternative to evolutionary theory is absurd, and I would hope that anyone entering a scientific field such as medicine would believe the same.

evolution is a theory and creationism is a theory.

 

[kuzy]

evolution is a theory and creationism is a theory.

please don't act like those two uses of the word "theory" have any similarities. Let me rephrase then: one is based on mountains of corroborating scientific evidence, and one is not

 

[YeezyQ]

There are no "perspectives" on evolution and the origin of the planet. There is what is right and what is wrong. I think teaching creationism as an alternative to evolutionary theory is absurd, and I would hope that anyone entering a scientific field such as medicine would believe the same.

Science is an open exchange of ideas and thought and there is never a right or wrong it's either 0.0001% or 99.999%. Anyways, I think it's a wonderful opportunity if they teach both perspectives because it forces you to think critically. Do you really think that all the professors there believe in creationism? I wish I had a class where I could learn both perspectives and engage in debate and discussion. Maybe if this happened all of our CARS scores would go up.

 

[de Ribas]

please don't act like those two uses of the word "theory" have any similarities. Let me rephrase then: one is based on mountains of corroborating scientific evidence, and one is not

I agree to some extent, but for the purpose of this forum I am not going into more detail.

Again, I think people should decide where they want to study. If people feel themselves more comfortable in these kinds of institutions. let it be. I am ok with that.

 

[kuzy]

Science is an open exchange of ideas and thought and there is never a right or wrong it's either 0.0001% or 99.999%. Anyways, I think it's a wonderful opportunity if they teach both perspectives because it forces you to think critically. Do you really think that all the professors there believe in creationism? I wish I had a class where I could learn both perspectives and engage in debate and discussion. Maybe if this happened all of our CARS scores would go up.

I understand that, and I am fully willing to engage in debate productive discussion as well. However, believing that the earth is 5000 years old and that we walked with dinosaurs is simply incorrect and not the grounds for such productive discussion.

I also dont care what percentage of the professors prescribe to such beliefs. I stated earlier that my main problem with LU is with the parent organization/the Fallwells, a point that thenewyorker1995 conveniently left out

 

[kuzy]

I agree to some extent, but for the purpose of this forum I am not going into more detail.

Again, I think people should decide where they want to study. If people feel themselves more comfortable in these kinds of institutions. let it be. I am ok with that.

I said the same thing in one of my earlier posts in this thread

 

[thenewyorker1995!]

I understand that, and I am fully willing to engage in debate productive discussion as well. However, believing that the earth is 5000 years old and that we walked with dinosaurs is simply incorrect and not the grounds for such productive discussion.

I also dont care what percentage of the professors prescribe to such beliefs. I stated earlier that my main problem with LU is with the parent organization/the Fallwells, a point that thenewyorker1995 conveniently left out

Not understanding how the Fallwell's have any effect on the quality academia aside for providing incredible amounts of money to provide top of the line facilities. So if you would like to elaborate on this by all means.