M.D.s and D.O.s Moving toward a Single, Unified Accreditation System for GME

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NurWollen said:
That's it. I'm deferring and/or reapplying. I can't handle two matches. J/k. That is a pretty big bummer though. A combined match was/is the most attractive part of the merger, for me.
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I haven't seen any official declaration about it on the AOA website: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/ACGME-single-accreditation-system.aspx

AOA, ACGME Move Toward Unified Accreditation for Graduate Medical Education Programs

The AOA, the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) and the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) have entered into an agreement to create a single, unified accreditation system for graduate medical education programs in the United States beginning in July 2015. During the coming months, the three organizations will work toward defining a process, format and timetable for ACGME to accredit all osteopathic graduate medical education programs currently accredited by the AOA. The AOA and AACOM would then become organizational members of ACGME.

The agreement follows more than a year of advocacy work by the AOA to preserve DOs' access to ACGME programs.
​

It also shows that the unification process timeline hasn't been changed, either: http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/acgme-policy-timeline.aspx

Timeline: AOA Response to ACGME Changes

Timeline of requests by the AOA to address the ACGME's proposed common program requirements:

July 2013 ​– The AOA to present Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to its Board.

June 2013 ​– The ACGME to present draft MOU to its Board.

April/May 2013 – Next meeting of the AOA/ACMGE Joint Task Force.

March 12, 2013 – AOA/ACGME monthly staff meeting.

March 4, 2013 – AOA Board of Trustees meets to discuss the status of the proposed GME accreditation system.

​Feb. 25, 2013 – Tentative date for the next meeting of the AOA/ACGME Joint Task Force.

Feb. 2-4, 2013 – ACGME Board of Directors meeting. We anticipate a draft MOU will be presented to their Board at this time.​
 
NurWollen said:
That's it. I'm deferring and/or reapplying. I can't handle two matches. J/k. That is a pretty big bummer though. A combined match was/is the most attractive part of the merger, for me.
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Take a year for research after med school then do match
 
Let's see eat DocEspana says.

Also feels good to be 2018.
 
NurWollen said:
Until they postpone it until 2021.
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Well, we didn't expect it happen in 2015 in the first place when we applied and were accepted this year, did we? There're thousands of successfully attending DO physicians without going through the ACGME unification. What I'm saying is that there's no need to worry about anything.

Besides, if you consider that the sum of all residency spots would be equal to the sum of all US medical school gradates come 2017, you may feel yourself lucky as a DO graduate to have better chances to match even at highly competent residency programs in AOA. Thus, I'd just chill and enjoy the ride. We'll become physicians in the US no matter what.
 
Yes, but there was no doubt in our minds that we had only the ability to maximize our residency placement chances by having both matches at the same time.
Oh well, hopefully for 2018 it'll be a united match. But admittedly since I'm probably gunning for psych I'll be applying ACGME only anyways.
 
DrBumblebee said:
Well, we didn't expect it happen in 2015 in the first place when we applied and were accepted this year, did we? There're thousands of successfully attending DO physicians without going through the ACGME unification. What I'm saying is that there's no need to worry about anything.

Besides, if you consider that the sum of all residency spots would be equal to the sum of all US medical school gradates come 2017, you may feel yourself lucky as a DO graduate to have better chances to match even at highly competent residency programs in AOA. Thus, I'd just chill and enjoy the ride. We'll become physicians in the US no matter what.
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Good points. I was accepted just before they announced the merger, and was thrilled. Still am. We'll still likely be graduating from ACGME accredited residencies, but the combined match is what I was really excited about, since there a lot of great AOA programs out there and it would be nice to just rank programs together whether ACGME or AOA. I'm still excited, don't get me wrong. Just a bit of a bummer. I don't see what's so hard about a combined match... It's not like it's difficult administratively to add programs to the match that only some graduates qualify for.

You're right though. Not much we can do about medical politics. We can however work hard, kill Step I (COMLEX, USMLE or both) and get into an awesome residency regardless.
 
serenade said:
Yes, but there was no doubt in our minds that we had only the ability to maximize our residency placement chances by having both matches at the same time.
Oh well, hopefully for 2018 it'll be a united match. But admittedly since I'm probably gunning for psych I'll be applying ACGME only anyways.
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Ditto this. I don't care about a unified Match process, as I already anticipate only applying AGCME anyway.
 
DrBumblebee said:
March 4, 2013 – AOA Board of Trustees meets to discuss the status of the proposed GME accreditation system.
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This coincides with HockeyDr09's post from yesterday, so the merger delay is probably for real. Might need more time to get AOA residencies up to ACGME par.
 
I think that's great news - the AOA residencies will be ACGME accredited by the time we complete residency but we won't have to worry about having to compete with MD students for osteopathic residency spots when we're applying. It's the best of both worlds.
 
113 said:
This coincides with HockeyDr09's post from yesterday, so the merger delay is probably for real. Might need more time to get AOA residencies up to ACGME par.
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the way i read that, it more accurately refers to the pre-planned 2018 "all residencies must actually pass the standards" moment. The meeting would be to discuss what those standards actually are. Because there are some really esoteric rules you have to meet.

This is of course, that my reading of that one sentence description of the event on the 4th is correct.
 
DocEspana said:
the way i read that, it more accurately refers to the pre-planned 2018 "all residencies must actually pass the standards" moment. The meeting would be to discuss what those standards actually are. Because there are some really esoteric rules you have to meet.

This is of course, that my reading of that one sentence description of the event on the 4th is correct.
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Fair enough. I just wanted to point out the coinciding date, and a pre-set agenda certainly doesn't preclude the AOA Board of Trustees from discussing other relevant topics.
 
DocEspana said:
the way i read that, it more accurately refers to the pre-planned 2018 "all residencies must actually pass the standards" moment. The meeting would be to discuss what those standards actually are. Because there are some really esoteric rules you have to meet.

This is of course, that my reading of that one sentence description of the event on the 4th is correct.
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My info wasn't from the AOA BoT meeting, it was (apparently) from some kind of AACOM deans meeting last week. We were flat out told everything is getting pushed to 2018. Don't forget I did break the mergers announcement a day before you :muahahface.

In all seriousness though, I guess we'll find out the truth soon enough. I'm already scheduled to take both exams, and had half expected I'd be applying to two matches anyway.
 
HockeyDr09 said:
My info wasn't from the AOA BoT meeting, it was (apparently) from some kind of AACOM deans meeting last week. We were flat out told everything is getting pushed to 2018. Don't forget I did break the mergers announcement a day before you :muahahface.

In all seriousness though, I guess we'll find out the truth soon enough. I'm already scheduled to take both exams, and had half expected I'd be applying to two matches anyway.
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Did you though? This might break down into an access-off. :laugh:
 
DocEspana said:
Did you though? This might break down into an access-off. :laugh:
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HockeyDr09 said:
10/18/12

From one of the more trust worthy sources I know (who is far "above" any of us on the ladder). Apparently the AOA initally threatened to sue the ACGME if they passed this resolution because it would allocate medicare funding while openly discriminating against D.O's. This lead to the joint committee which is currently working on combining the M.D/D.O match and just making it into one pool, potentially going into affect in 2015. Apparently our deans may already know this.

Believe me if you wish.
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DocEspana said:
10/24/12
All AOA residency are now ACGME residencies. (with some blending over years)

Woooooo!
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DocEspana said:
10/24/12
No. thats the outcome.

Acgme will adopt all aoa residencies as of today. There will be a combined match 3 years from now. Within the next 10 years all residencies will have to meet one common set of standards (can function under aoa standards in mean time). Sill need to take comlex 1. Unclear about entire comlex series. All DOs qualify for acgme residency and TRI counts. Individual specialty board fellowship rules may still apply.

Unclear what the reciprocity (mds applying to aoa specialties) is.
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:nod:
 
Pretty much decided yesterday after hearing this from our dean that I am not even bothering with the DO match. Of course for me geographically the allopathic match has MANY more options. But darn, I was kind of daydreaming about skipping the USMLE 🙁
 
So... How does one become so active in medical politics?
 
primadonna22274 said:
Pretty much decided yesterday after hearing this from our dean that I am not even bothering with the DO match. Of course for me geographically the allopathic match has MANY more options. But darn, I was kind of daydreaming about skipping the USMLE 🙁
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Even though the unified system would exist, wouldn't there still be, at least for forseeable future, two board exams? If that is the case, taking the USMLE would still be desirable because of bias towards it in MD residencies. I am not sure though, just my thought.
 
gmcguitar4 said:
Even though the unified system would exist, wouldn't there still be, at least for forseeable future, two board exams? If that is the case, taking the USMLE would still be desirable because of bias towards it in MD residencies. I am not sure though, just my thought.
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Precisely the reason I will take it. Not sure that I will take beyond step 1 though... All of those duplicate board exams are out of pocket and would kill me!
 
primadonna22274 said:
Precisely the reason I will take it. Not sure that I will take beyond step 1 though... All of those duplicate board exams are out of pocket and would kill me!
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If you end up at an ACGME residency, wouldn't you have to take all the steps of both tests in order o get licensed and boar certified?
 
NurWollen said:
If you end up at an ACGME residency, wouldn't you have to take all the steps of both tests in order o get licensed and boar certified?
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I did not think so...but I guess I had better check. Anyone know?
My first choice takes DOs regularly but is not dually accredited. There were no plans to pursue AOA as the merger was anticipated, but I will ask if that has changed.
 
Sooooo anything solid on the merger being delayed til 2018?


I didnt read everything here, but whats the scoop? This is info from one dean?


HockeyDr has been a great source so far, I just want to know some specifics if they are to be had
 
Yea. Is this delay finalized? I thought 2015 would be the year of equality! 🙁
 
HalfListic said:
Sooooo anything solid on the merger being delayed til 2018?


I didnt read everything here, but whats the scoop? This is info from one dean?


HockeyDr has been a great source so far, I just want to know some specifics if they are to be had
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Dr Dazzle said:
Yea. Is this delay finalized? I thought 2015 would be the year of equality! 🙁
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Still waiting to hear back from my friends in there if there is a change anticipated.
 
HalfListic said:
OK, thanks. I'll keep checking back here from time to time then. 👍
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NurWollen said:
And by 'time to time' of course you mean every 5 minutes.
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This is him
f5.gif


Sent from my Galaxy S2
 
dudeliness said:
This would be good to know
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generally speaking you do not have to do this. There are residencies that will make specific demands, and they are not completely rare but they are uncommon. for the most part the only thing that matters is completing the full cycle off at least 1 testing set. As far as I know you can actually stop the comlex at step 2 if you have all of the USMLE tests under your belt. But that would require taking 2 different practical exams as you need the PE section of both tests in that case (comlex pe is needed for graduating, usmle practical is needed to take step 3). For most people they will just finish the comlex set. Licensure and all that nonsense is state based and the states don't care which 1 you take as long as you finish 1 of them.

Note: they may or may not be fellowship reasons to do one or the other. I fully admit fellowships are in an area where I am greatly uneducated.
 
I'm doing a surgery rotation at an AOA residency. The residents are worried that their residency will be shut down after the merger.
 
cliquesh said:
I'm doing a surgery rotation at an AOA residency. The residents are worried that their residency will be shut down after the merger.
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earliest possible merger "compliance' date is 2018.

aka, not a single one of the current AOA residents, unless they are neurosurgery or non-combined FM/Derm residents, will be effected by the merger for their residency.
 
Are AOA residencies generally worse than ACGME ones? Also do they randomly lose funding?
 
Dr Dazzle said:
Are AOA residencies generally worse than ACGME ones? Also do they randomly lose funding?
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AOA programs are, in general, fine. They are just smaller, lower volume, less research, fewer famous people. If you want to do something surgery related, besides general surgery, AOA programs (and the military) are your only option as a DO.
 
cliquesh said:
AOA programs are, in general, fine. They are just smaller, lower volume, less research, fewer famous people. If you want to do something surgery related, besides general surgery, AOA programs (and the military) are your only option as a DO.
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Does this limit job opportunities post residency? A surgeon is a surgeon right?
 
Dr Dazzle said:
Does this limit job opportunities post residency? A surgeon is a surgeon right?
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Like the other poster mentioned, it is unlikely that you'll work at a big, prestigious, academic hospital coming from an AOA program. You'll likely end up in private practice and work out of smaller community hospitals. The pay for an aoa trained orthopedic surgeon is the same as an acgme surgeon. Academic positions pay about 1/2 as much as a private practice job. In general, the more prestigious the hospital the lower your salary will be.
 
Dr Dazzle said:
Does this limit job opportunities post residency? A surgeon is a surgeon right?
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Not necessarily. One way to beef up your prospects is to do a fellowship at somewhere brand name. Academic medical centers are always looking for trained surgeons to pay 65k a year as a fellow.

That guy on doctor 90210 (who is an MD, not a DO obviously) took a similar approach. He did his plastics training at a non "name brand" university, and then did a 1 year fellowship at one of the Harvard programs. Of course he had Harvard branded crap alllll over the place it was hilarious.

Academics really don't pay well so it isn't necessarily hard to get an academic job somewhere.
 
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Textbookversion said:
Not necessarily. One way to beef up your prospects is to do a fellowship at somewhere brand name. Academic medical centers are always looking for fulling trained surgeons to pay 65k a year as a fellow.

That guy on doctor 90210 (who is an MD, not a DO obviously) took a similar approach. He did his plastics training at a non "name brand" university, and then did a 1 year fellowship at one of the Harvard programs. Of course he had Harvard branded crap alllll over the place it was hilarious.

Academics really don't pay well so it isn't necessarily hard to get an academic job somewhere.
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the "other" guy on 90210 was a DO though, went to Nova. Tangential to your point, but interesting tidbit.
 
So why would anyone want to work at academic centers? I realize specialties like transplant surgery pretty much require it, but why would anyone take a lower pay? I guess maybe if you wanted to do clinical research?
 
Dr Dazzle said:
So why would anyone want to work at academic centers? I realize specialties like transplant surgery pretty much require it, but why would anyone take a lower pay? I guess maybe if you wanted to do clinical research?
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1) Prestige (the dirtiest word in medicine)
2) Ability to parlay that into a job in one of the super cush, super high paying community hospitals (there is an entire tier of these no one seems to know about) which are staffed mostly by almost-retired physicians from major centers
3) You believe (perhaps correctly) that your research will change the world. Which could lead to changing the world for the better, or just lots of money.
4) Being around the best might motivate you to be the best.
5) maybe the money is more than enough no matter what, so the lower pay is not going to deter you.
 
DocEspana said:
1) Prestige (the dirtiest word in medicine)
2) Ability to parlay that into a job in one of the super cush, super high paying community hospitals (there is an entire tier of these no one seems to know about) which are staffed mostly by almost-retired physicians from major centers
3) You believe (perhaps correctly) that your research will change the world. Which could lead to changing the world for the better, or just lots of money.
4) Being around the best might motivate you to be the best.
5) maybe the money is more than enough no matter what, so the lower pay is not going to deter you.
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You forgot: Have residents write all of your notes and orders for you.
 
Totally true

"Agree with PGY-3 note"

which, mind you, the PGY-3 note just says "Agree with PGY-1 Note". and the student note is in the garbage.
 
NIH and other research funds. Opportunity to move up the academic ladder. The endowed chairs, dept head, and administrative positions all pay in addition to clinical duties.
 
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