Major differences between an Associates degree in Nursing vs. a Bachelor's.

[NPorPAorMD2b]

What are the main differences in the Associates degree in Nursing and the Bachelor's Degree in Nursing, besides the years, of course.

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[the Abbot]

I have heard that the bachelor's degree focuses more on management than the associates degree in nursing.

 

[zenman]

This is from a school that has both programs:

Associate Degree in Nursing
A two-year technical degree nursing education program that prepares graduates for basic nursing care in hospitals and long term care settings.


Bachelor of Science in Nursing
A four-year professional nursing education program that includes liberal arts education preparing graduates for beginning nursing practice in a wide variety of settings including acute and long term care, community and school health and critical care.

 

[babietuan323]

with a bachelors in nursing, you have a better option of specializing in fields after you graduate.

 

[ProZackMI]

What are the main differences in the Associates degree in Nursing and the Bachelor's Degree in Nursing, besides the years, of course.

Your options for anything. If you get a BSN degree, and later you decide you want to pursue a graduate degree, whether in nursing or business administration, or you want to go to medical school, law school, vet school, or get a PhD in something like psychology or education, you'll be able to do so without having to go back and earn your BSN or BS/BA.

An associate's degree is not a real degree in the academic world, whereas a bachelor's degree is. Spend the extra time and money and get a BSN degree. You won't regret it.

 

[OlyUCLA]

Going off of this discussion, if I get my AA nursing degree at a community college, such as Austin Community College where I'd like to go, what will my average salary be upon completion? I know RNs are in high demand, but the discussions on these forums seems to focus on specialized nurses, like CRNA, so I'm just wondering what a basic RN with an Associates Degree has the potential to make salary-wise? I also have a BA in Poli Sci from UCLA, but this is obviously not health related...

Thx!

 

[fab4fan]

Usually, there's little difference in wages between ADN/BSN.

Nursing programs pretty much prepare you as an entry level nurse; contrary to what the BSNs say, their graduates are not better prepared than ADNs. Graduate nurses are pretty much equal when you turn them loose in the clinical setting. What the BSN does is gives you more mobility.

As far as real numbers for how much you'll make, you might better find the answer to you questions at www.allnurses.com

 

[coyotelove]

you need to do what's right for you, not "them"

 

[phluteloop]

Going off of this discussion, if I get my AA nursing degree at a community college, such as Austin Community College where I'd like to go, what will my average salary be upon completion? I know RNs are in high demand, but the discussions on these forums seems to focus on specialized nurses, like CRNA, so I'm just wondering what a basic RN with an Associates Degree has the potential to make salary-wise? I also have a BA in Poli Sci from UCLA, but this is obviously not health related...

Thx!

Good source for the averages on salary based on location, specialty, etc.
Nurse Salaries


As always, location does make a difference.

 

[Raven Feather]

Dang, I didn't know my ADN wasn't a "real" degree or that I attended a "technical" program. Hmmm. Last I heard LPN programs were "technical" as they do not hold degrees. Guess it is a good thing I have a Bachelor's degree in something completely different.

The biggest difference for with the BSN programs, is paper writing involving nursing theorists, nursing research, humanities, and coursework involving more managerial focus. I proof read a lot of my best friend's work who is an ADN working on her BSN. Apparently, you get no more science (physiology,pharm etc) beyond what you get as an ADN in a BSN program.


Salaries are pretty much the same if you are comparing the same position (my hospital pays .50 cents more per hour if you are a RN with a bachelors--doesn't matter if it was in nursing or not). My friend (ADN) works
three 12s on a weekend package and makes 41 bucks an hour--and our cost of living is not that high.

 

[boogita]

Many hospitals are trying to recruit more and more BSN nurses becuase they can get special status like Magnet. (yes I know that BSN's aren't the only requirment for BSN status). Becuase of this many hospitals are attempting to help pay for ADN students to go back to school for their BSN's.

 

[prairiedog]

Dang, I didn't know my ADN wasn't a "real" degree or that I attended a "technical" program. Hmmm. Last I heard LPN programs were "technical" as they do not hold degrees. Guess it is a good thing I have a Bachelor's degree in something completely different.

The biggest difference for with the BSN programs, is paper writing involving nursing theorists, nursing research, humanities, and coursework involving more managerial focus. I proof read a lot of my best friend's work who is an ADN working on her BSN. Apparently, you get no more science (physiology,pharm etc) beyond what you get as an ADN in a BSN program.

Do you feel the Bachelor's degree in something else has provided you with a better background for nursing? Isn't the main difference between a AA and BS the variety of courses taken at the university during the pre-nursing years for the BS results in a better learner?

 

[Raven Feather]

Many hospitals are trying to recruit more and more BSN nurses becuase they can get special status like Magnet. (yes I know that BSN's aren't the only requirment for BSN status). Becuase of this many hospitals are attempting to help pay for ADN students to go back to school for their BSN's.

Believe it or not, our hospital, about a year or so ago was granted Magnet Status, the majority of RNs are ADNs. They look more into the nurse patient ratios, staffing etc.

 

[Raven Feather]

Do you feel the Bachelor's degree in something else has provided you with a better background for nursing? Isn't the main difference between a AA and BS the variety of courses taken at the university during the pre-nursing years for the BS results in a better learner?

Well, I first received my ADN then 3 years later, went back for my Bachelor of Liberal Studies with a major in natural science. I don't think necessarily that a BS results in a "better learner" as I feel a degree does not make one a "better learner" (we are all born with different capacities and talents). I will say, that from my specific degree, I have become more well-rounded. I believe this also may be true for BSNs--but I do not think that it makes me a "better" nurse per se. As far as critical thinking and making judgment calls from a clinical context, the ADN has the same science/evidence based background as BSNs. That is why I didn't pursue the BSN, I was interested in more sciences and I thought with the BLS--I could have my cake and eat it too.

 

[burntcrispy]

I was a nurse (BSN) for 6 years before going to medical school. If you have a degree already don't waste your time on the BSN. It gives you NO ADVANTAGES that I know of when applying for a basic nursing job in ANY area. I have friends who are ADNs and they work in ICU/ER/OR. Also, there is usually no difference in pay.

As a new grad ADN in Tx you will probably make about 35-40K but it could be more now. When I graduated I started about 25K or so. That was 10 years ago this month. The pay has gone way up since then.

If your intention is NP or CRNA and you DONT have any kind of degree, sure get the BSN. If you already have a degree it's worthless. CRNA programs only require any college degree and back when I was looking into the CRNA route they told me they prefer a bio degree over a BSN.

Nursing is a well paying job with lots of flexable hours. I was able to work full time (36hr/wk) while doing my pre med coursework. I'm graduating from medical school in 2 weeks!!!!!!! Not looking forward to the 80 hrs/wk of internship but it's only for a year so how bad can it be?

 

[Ross434]

Those salaries on allied-physicians are a bit skewed. Nursing salaries have been going up so fast lately that a lot of sites dont keep up. Allnurses.com reports different numbers. Low demand areas and rural areas are probably around 25-40k, but high demand metro areas are more like 50-60k, or even 70k in some cases.

 

[plouffes]

I was a nurse (BSN) for 6 years before going to medical school. If you have a degree already don't waste your time on the BSN. It gives you NO ADVANTAGES that I know of when applying for a basic nursing job in ANY area. I have friends who are ADNs and they work in ICU/ER/OR. Also, there is usually no difference in pay.

As a new grad ADN in Tx you will probably make about 35-40K but it could be more now. When I graduated I started about 25K or so. That was 10 years ago this month. The pay has gone way up since then.

If your intention is NP or CRNA and you DONT have any kind of degree, sure get the BSN. If you already have a degree it's worthless. CRNA programs only require any college degree and back when I was looking into the CRNA route they told me they prefer a bio degree over a BSN.

Nursing is a well paying job with lots of flexable hours. I was able to work full time (36hr/wk) while doing my pre med coursework. I'm graduating from medical school in 2 weeks!!!!!!! Not looking forward to the 80 hrs/wk of internship but it's only for a year so how bad can it be?

congrats!

 

[joydee]

This is from a school that has both programs:

Associate Degree in Nursing
A two-year technical degree nursing education program that prepares graduates for basic nursing care in hospitals and long term care settings.


Bachelor of Science in Nursing
A four-year professional nursing education program that includes liberal arts education preparing graduates for beginning nursing practice in a wide variety of settings including acute and long term care, community and school health and critical care.

Not sure that you are correct as I speak from starting as an associate degree nurse and now am masters prepared; I never saw a long term care facility the entire time I was in an associates degree program; and I am not sure what you mean by basic nursing; whether you are a registered nurse with a diploma, associates degree, or bachelors degree you all start out as a "basic nurse" and any RN can choose whether they want to provide nursing care to a cardiology population, neurology population, etc.... The only setting that an associate degree nurse does not embark upon is public health.... now, think about your response.... if there is a difference between the three then why do all take the same licensing exam (must mean that the curriculums cover the same content in order to pass the NCLEX) Please be knowledgeable about your posts as not to misinform those who are seriously seeking answers about their futures and I do not make this comment out of disrespect to you!

PS - I am a nursing recruiter so I am charged with knowing the differences

 

[zenman]

Not sure that you are correct as I speak from starting as an associate degree nurse and now am masters prepared; I never saw a long term care facility the entire time I was in an associates degree program; and I am not sure what you mean by basic nursing; whether you are a registered nurse with a diploma, associates degree, or bachelors degree you all start out as a "basic nurse" and any RN can choose whether they want to provide nursing care to a cardiology population, neurology population, etc.... The only setting that an associate degree nurse does not embark upon is public health.... now, think about your response.... if there is a difference between the three then why do all take the same licensing exam (must mean that the curriculums cover the same content in order to pass the NCLEX) Please be knowledgeable about your posts as not to misinform those who are seriously seeking answers about their futures and I do not make this comment out of disrespect to you!

PS - I am a nursing recruiter so I am charged with knowing the differences

My quote was from the school's website to show you the difference. I taught in both the ADN and BSN programs at that school (NSU). However, I am really concerned that you are a recruiter and do not know that the NCLEX has absolutely nothing to do with the difference between ADN and BSN. I still find it amazing that this is one argument from nursing, as well as "we all have the same license." The NCLEX and a license means you have passed the "minimum" standards and are deemed safe to practice on the public. Sorry, but you gotta get "educated" in order to do your own job, ROFLMAO!

 

[joydee]

My quote was from the school's website to show you the difference. I taught in both the ADN and BSN programs at that school (NSU). However, I am really concerned that you are a recruiter and do not know that the NCLEX has absolutely nothing to do with the difference between ADN and BSN. I still find it amazing that this is one argument from nursing, as well as "we all have the same license." The NCLEX and a license means you have passed the "minimum" standards and are deemed safe to practice on the public. Sorry, but you gotta get "educated" in order to do your own job, ROFLMAO!

The website you quote is then in error. Please show me an ADN who can not work in critical care or an ADN who has not had an opportunity to publish based on their clinical expertise; leadership is innate and not taught; thus the BSN does not make you any more a professional nurse than a diploma or ADN nurse; and there was nothing "basic" about the nursing care I provided; the BSN nurse working right beside me had no more authority or rule or charge duties over me and our paychecks were the same; remember that the first two years of any bachelors program is about general education requirements and the latter two years are nursing focused; the technical programs essentially bypass some of the general ed requirements and focus solely on the nursing component which parallels with a 4 year university... and you are correct about the license - it does mean that one has met the minimum requirements to practice nursing but the BSN nurse does not get a license that says "and by the way I am a professional RN and NOT a technical RN".

 

[Raven Feather]

The website you quote is then in error. Please show me an ADN who can not work in critical care or an ADN who has not had an opportunity to publish based on their clinical expertise; leadership is innate and not taught; thus the BSN does not make you any more a professional nurse than a diploma or ADN nurse; and there was nothing "basic" about the nursing care I provided; the BSN nurse working right beside me had no more authority or rule or charge duties over me and our paychecks were the same; remember that the first two years of any bachelors program is about general education requirements and the latter two years are nursing focused; the technical programs essentially bypass some of the general ed requirements and focus solely on the nursing component which parallels with a 4 year university... and you are correct about the license - it does mean that one has met the minimum requirements to practice nursing but the BSN nurse does not get a license that says "and by the way I am a professional RN and NOT a technical RN".

I have to agree. Why do people tend to have an innate desire to create hierarchies to make themselves feel better? I will never know.

There is no way anyone could ever convince me that I should prefer a BSN to take care of my gramma over an ADN because he or she had more managerial experience and wrote butt loads of papers on Florence Nightengale and the like. No way. For me, I would chose the one displaying more competence and compassion--which a degree does not always give.

 

[joydee]

I have to agree. Why do people tend to have an innate desire to create hierarchies to make themselves feel better? I will never know.

There is no way anyone could ever convince me that I should prefer a BSN to take care of my gramma over an ADN because he or she had more managerial experience and wrote butt loads of papers on Florence Nightengale and the like. No way. For me, I would chose the one displaying more competence and compassion--which a degree does not always give.

Thanks so Much!

 

[zenman]

The website you quote is then in error. Please show me an ADN who can not work in critical care or an ADN who has not had an opportunity to publish based on their clinical expertise; leadership is innate and not taught;

You can certainly check out Northwestern State University in Shreveport, Louisiana...and while you're at it tell them, not me, your concerns. Ask them if ADN and BSN programs are different...as they were when I taught in both programs. Don't bother me with your defense mechanisms.

thus the BSN does not make you any more a professional nurse than a diploma or ADN nurse;

Every is a "Professional" these days including taxi drivers. Look up the word in relations to educational professionalism.

 

[zenman]

I have to agree. Why do people tend to have an innate desire to create hierarchies to make themselves feel better? I will never know.

<
Maybe because a four year degree is considered standard among other professions. Nursing is the only "profession" that argues for less education in spite of having to make life or death decisions. Can you even comprehend why "one" profession would argue for that. Is so totally unbelievable that it's beyond belief. As I've said before "nursing is a stupid profession." Try to use logic to argue that one, would you? Go argue for the teacher who is teaching your kids to knock down their education a little bit...start there, would you? And they are only responsible for your kid's mind!

There is no way anyone could ever convince me that I should prefer a BSN to take care of my gramma over an ADN because he or she had more managerial experience ..

And what does this managerial course teach you that you can apply directly at the bedside and therefore = better patient care? Let me "educate" you a little and then you see what else you can come up with. Knowlwdge of the hospital chain of comand, a little about healthcare finance so you don't have to say, "I don't know" when a patient has a question that might impact their fixed income, how to manage your time so you can provide better patient care, how to lead so you can provide care of many patients...ok, now your turn...

 

[zenman]

leadership is innate and not taught; .

You know why military graduates are sought after...they were "trained" in leadership. Know why there are many "leadership" courses all over the place? Because that "innate" trait you talk about is certainly not as abundant as you think, LOL! There are very few "born" leaders.

 

[Raven Feather]

<
Maybe because a four year degree is considered standard among other professions. Nursing is the only "profession" that argues for less education in spite of having to make life or death decisions. Can you even comprehend why "one" profession would argue for that. Is so totally unbelievable that it's beyond belief. As I've said before "nursing is a stupid profession." Try to use logic to argue that one, would you? Go argue for the teacher who is teaching your kids to knock down their education a little bit...start there, would you? And they are only responsible for your kid's mind!



And what does this managerial course teach you that you can apply directly at the bedside and therefore = better patient care? Let me "educate" you a little and then you see what else you can come up with. Knowlwdge of the hospital chain of comand, a little about healthcare finance so you don't have to say, "I don't know" when a patient has a question that might impact their fixed income, how to manage your time so you can provide better patient care, how to lead so you can provide care of many patients...ok, now your turn...

Oh pleeeaaase, what nit-wit couldn't do those things without a BSN from experience alone? Additionally, have you ever heard of case managers/social workers?

Look, I think it would be great if everyone could have a more equal playing field, especially since people love heirarchies.

 

[MedicRN]

You know why military graduates are sought after...they were "trained" in leadership. Know why there are many "leadership" courses all over the place? Because that "innate" trait you talk about is certainly not as abundant as you think, LOL! There are very few "born" leaders.

Being a leader does not make one a better RN nor does being a BSN-prepared RN make a better leader. I had a commander who was a BSN and was horrible at both jobs. Having spent time as part of the 'military machine,' I know you can't teach leadership as readily as you might think.

 

[MedicRN]

And what does this managerial course teach you that you can apply directly at the bedside and therefore = better patient care? Let me "educate" you a little and then you see what else you can come up with. Knowlwdge of the hospital chain of comand,

If I, as an ADN, don't know my hospital's chain of command, then my manager has failed to ensure I've been oriented properly and correctly. Heck, if a patient care tech doesn't know the chain of command........

a little about healthcare finance so you don't have to say, "I don't know" when a patient has a question that might impact their fixed income,

Anyone with a whit of finance knowledge (aka high school accounting 101) can give the basic answers in addition to 'I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you.' Case Managers/Social Workers are the ones responsible for the location of resources. It's part of the multidisciplinary nursing team.

how to manage your time so you can provide better patient care, how to lead so you can provide care of many patients

Hmmmm..... for me (a lowly ADN), time management and the ability to lead a nursing team were required to pass M/S II (aka graduate).

I hate to bust your bubble, but I have the ability to provide patient care as well as those many years my senior AND BSN-prepared (as evidenced in bi-annual evaluations). I also have the ability to think on my feet and use critical thinking. If even a diploma-prepared RN isn't capable of these crucial nursing requirements, then (s)he needs to reevaluate their career choice.

 

[joydee]

You can certainly check out Northwestern State University in Shreveport, Louisiana...and while you're at it tell them, not me, your concerns. Ask them if ADN and BSN programs are different...as they were when I taught in both programs. Don't bother me with your defense mechanisms.




Every is a "Professional" these days including taxi drivers. Look up the word in relations to educational professionalism.

You are sooooo angry - I think in my first post I stated my point of view was without any disrespect towards you, so let me apologize to you at this moment! We can agree to disagree as adults and have a healthy discussion. Again my apologies!

 

[joydee]

If I, as an ADN, don't know my hospital's chain of command, then my manager has failed to ensure I've been oriented properly and correctly. Heck, if a patient care tech doesn't know the chain of command........



Anyone with a whit of finance knowledge (aka high school accounting 101) can give the basic answers in addition to 'I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you.' Case Managers/Social Workers are the ones responsible for the location of resources. It's part of the multidisciplinary nursing team.



Hmmmm..... for me (a lowly ADN), time management and the ability to lead a nursing team were required to pass M/S II (aka graduate).

I hate to bust your bubble, but I have the ability to provide patient care as well as those many years my senior AND BSN-prepared (as evidenced in bi-annual evaluations). I also have the ability to think on my feet and use critical thinking. If even a diploma-prepared RN isn't capable of these crucial nursing requirements, then (s)he needs to reevaluate their career choice.

Very Well Stated - Don't you find it amazing that nursing is supposed to be about compassion and yet you can just get "kicked in the teeth" in this forum
for disagreeing that A BSN isn't better - Would love to work beside you -

 

[zenman]

Oh pleeeaaase, what nit-wit couldn't do those things without a BSN from experience alone? Additionally, have you ever heard of case managers/social workers?

Look, I think it would be great if everyone could have a more equal playing field, especially since people love heirarchies.

Unfortunately, there will always be heirarchies. One way to shut nurses up from having this one argument and go on to more productive discourse is to have one entry level. Continue asking yourself why nursing is the only "profession" that argues for less education. No one else does.

And think...if experience is the "end all" why not do away with the educational process alltegther...including elementary and secondary school...let's get it all by experience. Now, are you starting to get it?

What's your point about social workers ...they require BSW and usually MSWs.

 

[zenman]

Being a leader does not make one a better RN nor does being a BSN-prepared RN make a better leader. I had a commander who was a BSN and was horrible at both jobs. Having spent time as part of the 'military machine,' I know you can't teach leadership as readily as you might think.

Leadership can be taught, but you're right that it won't necessary make you a great leader. I disagree with you that being a leader will not make you a better RN. Being a leader should make you better at anything you want to do.

We should have one entry level. Just like in boot camp, you want everyone on the same page. After graduating you wil always have the duds and the superstars, but you got to have a method to teach the masses the basics.

Let's use me as an example. Having spent time as part of the "military complex" starting in 1970, I became a medic (after first being in mortars). I then challenged the California state boards and became an RN. Remember, I haven't even been to nursing school yet. I went to work in a Level 1 trauma unit and in a few months was the evening charge nurse. In a year I was the nurse manager. Then I went to nursing school and found out things I didn't know. Then when I got a masters I found out even more....which made me a better bedside nurse. So, you see I can speak from both the "experience" and "educational" aspect with some authority.

 

[zenman]

If I, as an ADN, don't know my hospital's chain of command, then my manager has failed to ensure I've been oriented properly and correctly. Heck, if a patient care tech doesn't know the chain of command........

You're under the impression that some orientation periods are over one day, aren't you, LOL!

Anyone with a whit of finance knowledge (aka high school accounting 101) can give the basic answers in addition to 'I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you.

Many people don't have that "whit" of finance and that is why it should be part of a nursing course specific to healthcare. Healthcare finance is a different animal than any high school finance course.

Hmmmm..... for me (a lowly ADN), time management and the ability to lead a nursing team were required to pass M/S II (aka graduate).

You're not your degree so pick yourself up off the floor. Now, I hear that ADN courses are teaching a smidgin of research, management, etc in their programs. I'll bet they are not making the program longer, so what is being cut out to bring in these courses (taught in BSN programs) that must now be considered "needed" courses?

I hate to bust your bubble, but I have the ability to provide patient care as well as those many years my senior AND BSN-prepared (as evidenced in bi-annual evaluations). I also have the ability to think on my feet and use critical thinking. If even a diploma-prepared RN isn't capable of these crucial nursing requirements, then (s)he needs to reevaluate their career choice.

Yep, I was the same once...but now can do it at a different level, LOL!

 

[zenman]

You are sooooo angry - I think in my first post I stated my point of view was without any disrespect towards you, so let me apologize to you at this moment! We can agree to disagree as adults and have a healthy discussion. Again my apologies!

Yep, I'm sitting here in Thailand being really angry, ROFLMAO! I "chose" whether or not I'm angry...and it rarely happens. I don't intend to disrespect anyone, just slap you around because you should already know this stuff...and give you some reality therapy. More reality therapy would be this: a CNA can't argue much for or against an LPN because they aren't one; an LPN can't do the same towards an RN because they aren't one, same with an ADN versus a BSN; a BSN vs an MSN; a MSN vs a Ph.D.. It's all opinion unless you've been there.

 

[zenman]

Very Well Stated - Don't you find it amazing that nursing is supposed to be about compassion and yet you can just get "kicked in the teeth" in this forum
for disagreeing that A BSN isn't better - Would love to work beside you -

Because of compassion I kicked my teenage daughter out of the house one Christmas. After Christmas was over and she came back, she was a much nicer person. She is 24 and very close to me. Sooooooo....who's getting kicked in the teeth?

All I'm saying is that there needs to be one entry level and it needs to be a BSN. You know...like the other "professions!"

Yes, you would love working beside me because I'm one funny guy that really cares about patients. That's why I've lasted 32 years...plus all that knowledge and experience...which I now impart to you.

 

[Raven Feather]

Unfortunately, there will always be heirarchies. One way to shut nurses up from having this one argument and go on to more productive discourse is to have one entry level. Continue asking yourself why nursing is the only "profession" that argues for less education. No one else does.

And think...if experience is the "end all" why not do away with the educational process alltegther...including elementary and secondary school...let's get it all by experience. Now, are you starting to get it?

What's your point about social workers ...they require BSW and usually MSWs.

Perhaps with such a shortage in nursing in many various areas across the US it is the only "profession" that continues to argue for less education. Just a speculation.

You are putting words in my mouth about experience. But I can say, experience, in all medical fields means a lot when it comes to patient care.

Umm, excuse me but NO. Not all social workers/case managers have BSWs or MSWs. There are nurses, both ADNs and BSNs who do case management. I can asure you of that. My point about them should be clear.

 

[joydee]

Yep, I'm sitting here in Thailand being really angry, ROFLMAO! I "chose" whether or not I'm angry...and it rarely happens. I don't intend to disrespect anyone, just slap you around because you should already know this stuff...and give you some reality therapy. More reality therapy would be this: a CNA can't argue much for or against an LPN because they aren't one; an LPN can't do the same towards an RN because they aren't one, same with an ADN versus a BSN; a BSN vs an MSN; a MSN vs a Ph.D.. It's all opinion unless you've been there.

Look at my original post - I am a Masters Prepared Nurse - Come practice in the states and then you can have an opinion!

 

[sunnyjohn]

Look at my original post - I am a Masters Prepared Nurse - Come practice in the states and then you can have an opinion!

Zenman is an American. He just happens to be travelling the world at the moment.

 

[zenman]

Perhaps with such a shortage in nursing in many various areas across the US it is the only "profession" that continues to argue for less education. Just a speculation.

You are putting words in my mouth about experience. But I can say, experience, in all medical fields means a lot when it comes to patient care.

Umm, excuse me but NO. Not all social workers/case managers have BSWs or MSWs. There are nurses, both ADNs and BSNs who do case management. I can asure you of that. My point about them should be clear.

A shortage in any profession does not warrant cutting the training time. Do you see other professions doing that?

Experience always means a lot...but it should be correct experience from educated and trained people.

I have never seen a social worker with less than four years of college. Yes, I am aware of nurses doing case management.

 

[zenman]

Zenman is an American. He just happens to be travelling the world at the moment.

Actually, I am a Texan...does that make me an American? And now I am in Germany having a great time...and so are the Germans after their win the other night!

 

[MedicRN]

You're under the impression that some orientation periods are over one day, aren't you, LOL!

Our orientation period spans 3 months. Depending on the position into which a person is employed, 'classroom' orientation time (which includes, but not limited to, policy and procedure) ranges from 2 to 14 days. The remainder of time is spent orienting to the position.

Many people don't have that "whit" of finance and that is why it should be part of a nursing course specific to healthcare. Healthcare finance is a different animal than any high school finance course.

Healthcare finance is the responsibility of the multidisciplinary care team. These teams include dietitians, pharmacists, physical therapists, case managers, patient physicians, chaplains, etc. Each of our patients are assigned a case worker who follows them from admit to discharge. Among other things, they assist in locating financial assistance as needed for the patient. Your facility must require you to be the 'be all, do all' for your patients. Very efficient.

Yep, I was the same once...but now can do it at a different level, LOL!

No one is on the same level as God.

 

[Raven Feather]

A shortage in any profession does not warrant cutting the training time. Do you see other professions doing that?

Experience always means a lot...but it should be correct experience from educated and trained people.

I have never seen a social worker with less than four years of college. Yes, I am aware of nurses doing case management.

Many ADN and BSN programs, at least around here, have the same "training" just ADNs have less education in those managerial and humanities-type classes. I can't think right off the bat of any other profession that is claimed to be as short in many areas such as it is supposed to be in nursing.

At my hospital, there are MSWs, BSWs, BSNs, and several ADNs doing social work/ case management. In fact one of the girls I went through orientation with years ago left the floor (ADN) to do case management and has now just returned to the floor to go back into nursing/patient care.

So, Zen, then what do you think about LPNs then?

 

[zenman]

So, Zen, then what do you think about LPNs then?

Well, I used to be one, LOL! I think what many people forget is that they are not the "degree" that they have. I have worked with excellent LPNs and nurses holding ADNs and dumba**es holding all kinds of degrees. But then, that's not the point is it? We just need one entry level...is what I'm saying.

 

[DNP student]

Many ADN and BSN programs, at least around here, have the same "training" just ADNs have less education in those managerial and humanities-type classes. I can't think right off the bat of any other profession that is claimed to be as short in many areas such as it is supposed to be in nursing.

I teach in an ADN program, and most of the curriculum is the same as the BSN programs around the state. The core (courses outside nursing) is about 3-4 courses shorter than the BSN (chemistry, stats, growth and development) are not required core although most of our students take them anyway because they plan to go on for the BSN. As for nurisng courses, our students don't take leadership/management, research, and community health; although we incorporate those topics within our other classes. I think the biggest difference is in the clinical hours. The ADN programs historically offer more clinical hours than the BSN programs. We highly encourage all our graduates to go on for the BSN. It's makes a nurse more competitive in job advancement (if an ADN and BSN are otherwise equal in seeking a new position, the BSN will usually get the job).

I think the BSN is a great thing for older, nontraditional students; or those who, while in high school, did not plan for college so did not take the high school prereqs for college. ADN programs are usually offered in community colleges with more "open" enrollments and remedial courses to help students get math and reading skills up to college level (if you're 40 years old and have not taken any math courses since high school, you'll be a little rusty in algebra and will not pass the state entrance exam for admission to any college in the state of GA). The community colleges have remedial courses to help these students get where they need to be in order to take college level courses).

 

[Snake Doctor]

sorry to revived this old thread... but does anyone know how a Masters entry level degree fits into all this? UCLA has a MECN degree. Is there a practical difference or is it the same? The pre-reqs seems more in depth for this program....

 

[gonj]

Master's Entry w/o a CNS or NP certificate means you are a bedside nurse when you graduate, just like an ADN or a BSN grad. Ie, no practical difference.

The difference is you are "master's prepared" and you paid more for your education. If you like nursing theory and nursing research (the "master's prepared" part) or if you're a degree snob, then the academic process and advanced degree might serve your psyche well. Another practical concern is that public ADN tuition runs @ $1500 ttl, MECN tuition @ $30k. Pay difference for a bedside EMSN might be a whopping $1 more per hour than the ADN grad. Return on investment for MECN is too low for my tastes.

However, if you want an advanced degree in nursing, it's faster (and usually cheaper) to go EMSN than doing an ADN-to-BSN/MSN bridge.

 

[184013]

of course.. those with previous non-nursing bachelors can get their ADN and then can directly enter into masters programs in many cases... some require transition courses others do not.

 

[virgo]

nevermind

 

[BlurredFocus]

What are the main differences in the Associates degree in Nursing and the Bachelor's Degree in Nursing, besides the years, of course.

general education courses.
ability to get your MSN/DNP. (with the exception of RN-MSN type programs)
ability to move into more management type positions.

 

[Daggum]

Let's just make this super simple;

BSN = offered at state and unviersities
ADN = offered at community colleges...