Many problems at Western University of Health Sciences Osteopathic COMP Pomona

[captjaneway]

Current OMS 2 at WesternU right now. I just had to reply to this thread because it came up in a Google search for something else. I read this thread a few years ago and coming back to it know, it's kind of funny to read, as it is pretty silly. The main OP is just exhibiting typical first semester med student stress and complaining, not unlike what you will see at any med school, just as other users mentioned. WesternU is a good school No, WesternU isn't perfect but med students always complain about the tiniest hiccups along the way. However, a lot of the ones who complain are simply the ones who don't have any real world work experience, and therefore lack awareness of the tremendous coordination that goes on behind the scenes of any institution, then end up being unforgiving of the slightest offense of suboptimal scheduling, grades being released a day late, etc. People just have weird unrealistic expectations for things. No, not everyone is available to cater to you at every moment. They are out in their practice seeing patients, or lecturing to other students, in committee meetings. They expect some sort of flawless 5-star customer service experience. Personally, I don't want a retail experience out of my school, I knew I wanted a warm environment that I was comfortable in. That's just me, some people prefer the latter and that is okay too. Choose the school that you feel is best for you.
A lot of the real desperation that OP showed dies down after first semester. People adjust and get used to the rhythm, and there are always a few that are just negative people who will complain wherever they are at any stage in their life.
Some specific things that were brought up in this thread that have changed:
-We are fine with rotation sites. We still rotate at ARMC and numerous other places in the area. We still rotate at the same hospitals that we did before the birth of UCR, and before Caribbean students started rotating at ARMC. This year when the second year class scheduled rotations next year, they had their largest excess in capacity of rotations available yet. The rotations office adds rotation sites constantly, they are foraging relationships around SoCal constantly. So, I wasn't here in 2012 when it seems they were having issues with that, if they were, it was totally turned around or just rumors because it certainly isn't an issue now. COMP is also establishing new residency sites regularly. Their OPTI-WEST residencies are growing and new have been added with more coming such as DRMC, Montclair Hospital etc.
-Campus safety-yeah Pomona isn't the greatest city. I grew up in a much safer area. I definitely wouldn't stay and raise a family here. It is fine temporarily. Campus security is excellent. I make sure valuables aren't in sight in my parked car, I get an escort if I have to walk far to my car when it's dark, otherwise I feel safe. Better yet, I park in the garage and I don't have to worry about either of those things.

Interesting new things:
Last year was the first year that they implemented cumulative board-style exams at the end of each semester. They contain questions directly from the NBME covering topics that we have covered up to that point. Each semester they get longer as we cover more material. They are administered in a manner consistent with the board test yet the stakes aren't overly stressful, they are just a chance to get a feel for board questions and be able to gain our retention/problem areas a long the way. Students are enjoying it.
We have an ultrasound curriculum that begins in the first year. This is the first year that it was implemented.

What do I not like?
Tuition-it is really expensive. But, it's not some surprise. It is a private school in an expensive state. Even the state schools in CA are extremely expensive now. Sometimes I think for a minute that maybe I should have applied to schools in other states where tuition is significantly cheaper, just to see a lower number in terms of debt after this. But, what's done is done and perhaps I would have other problems that I couldn't foresee. I am from CA and want to stay and practice in NorCal. Who knows if I would have like out of state, I probably would have been fine, but it's a waste of time to think about it now. I'm usually too busy studying to dwell on it when I can't really do anything about it now. I'll survive. I know how to live within my means well enough to be fine in terms of paying off my loans and having money to be satisfied with. Also, anytime I think about whether I should have gone somewhere else, I just remember that I really like WesternU. I like the vibe, it feels like home, and it's a good fit for me. That goes a long way, so I usually don't think about this for long or very often as the fit and vibe is a really big thing for me and is worth the $$.
Rotations-they are scattered all over. It would be nice to be at a school where all the third year cores are at the same place so that I didn't have to drive around. But, there is enough flexibility to set it up so that I don't have to drive around that much.
Other problems that most schools have: not every Professor is an amazing teacher(Sattar, Goljan etc wouldn't known as they are if this were the only school that didn't have a staff of 100% teaching prodigies. We have great professors, we have good professors, and we have a few not so great ones. The opinions of which professors belong in each of those categories also varies widely from student to student at times. As an adult learner, if a professor's teaching doesn't suit my learning style, I use that time covering that material from a resource that better suits me than attending that lecture. Own your choices.

Overall the things that are most important for me and I like about WesternU:
-Great placement and match rate-I know I will have a job when I graduate.
-Students match to great ACGME and AOA residencies.
-Average board scores are above national average and increasing as a result of recent changes.
-The faculty/staff are really happy. The university as a whole is known as being a great employer. Generally everyone is really happy here. Having happy employees and faculty really ends up permeating everything down into the student body. It makes a difference as it is far from being one of those toxic, negative environments. The faculty owns the curriculum, student input is valued, and innovation in benefit of the student is encouraged. The school really takes to heart the success of the students. Admin is truly cares and is always reasonable and fair.

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[gergles]

Current OMS 2 at WesternU right now. I just had to reply to this thread because it came up in a Google search for something else. I read this thread a few years ago and coming back to it know, it's kind of funny to read, as it is pretty silly. The main OP is just exhibiting typical first semester med student stress and complaining, not unlike what you will see at any med school, just as other users mentioned. WesternU is a good school No, WesternU isn't perfect but med students always complain about the tiniest hiccups along the way. However, a lot of the ones who complain are simply the ones who don't have any real world work experience, and therefore lack awareness of the tremendous coordination that goes on behind the scenes of any institution, then end up being unforgiving of the slightest offense of suboptimal scheduling, grades being released a day late, etc. People just have weird unrealistic expectations for things. No, not everyone is available to cater to you at every moment. They are out in their practice seeing patients, or lecturing to other students, in committee meetings. They expect some sort of flawless 5-star customer service experience. Personally, I don't want a retail experience out of my school, I knew I wanted a warm environment that I was comfortable in. That's just me, some people prefer the latter and that is okay too. Choose the school that you feel is best for you.
A lot of the real desperation that OP showed dies down after first semester. People adjust and get used to the rhythm, and there are always a few that are just negative people who will complain wherever they are at any stage in their life.
Some specific things that were brought up in this thread that have changed:
-We are fine with rotation sites. We still rotate at ARMC and numerous other places in the area. We still rotate at the same hospitals that we did before the birth of UCR, and before Caribbean students started rotating at ARMC. This year when the second year class scheduled rotations next year, they had their largest excess in capacity of rotations available yet. The rotations office adds rotation sites constantly, they are foraging relationships around SoCal constantly. So, I wasn't here in 2012 when it seems they were having issues with that, if they were, it was totally turned around or just rumors because it certainly isn't an issue now. COMP is also establishing new residency sites regularly. Their OPTI-WEST residencies are growing and new have been added with more coming such as DRMC, Montclair Hospital etc.
-Campus safety-yeah Pomona isn't the greatest city. I grew up in a much safer area. I definitely wouldn't stay and raise a family here. It is fine temporarily. Campus security is excellent. I make sure valuables aren't in sight in my parked car, I get an escort if I have to walk far to my car when it's dark, otherwise I feel safe. Better yet, I park in the garage and I don't have to worry about either of those things.

Interesting new things:
Last year was the first year that they implemented cumulative board-style exams at the end of each semester. They contain questions directly from the NBME covering topics that we have covered up to that point. Each semester they get longer as we cover more material. They are administered in a manner consistent with the board test yet the stakes aren't overly stressful, they are just a chance to get a feel for board questions and be able to gain our retention/problem areas a long the way. Students are enjoying it.
We have an ultrasound curriculum that begins in the first year. This is the first year that it was implemented.

What do I not like?
Tuition-it is really expensive. But, it's not some surprise. It is a private school in an expensive state. Even the state schools in CA are extremely expensive now. Sometimes I think for a minute that maybe I should have applied to schools in other states where tuition is significantly cheaper, just to see a lower number in terms of debt after this. But, what's done is done and perhaps I would have other problems that I couldn't foresee. I am from CA and want to stay and practice in NorCal. Who knows if I would have like out of state, I probably would have been fine, but it's a waste of time to think about it now. I'm usually too busy studying to dwell on it when I can't really do anything about it now. I'll survive. I know how to live within my means well enough to be fine in terms of paying off my loans and having money to be satisfied with. Also, anytime I think about whether I should have gone somewhere else, I just remember that I really like WesternU. I like the vibe, it feels like home, and it's a good fit for me. That goes a long way, so I usually don't think about this for long or very often as the fit and vibe is a really big thing for me and is worth the $$.
Rotations-they are scattered all over. It would be nice to be at a school where all the third year cores are at the same place so that I didn't have to drive around. But, there is enough flexibility to set it up so that I don't have to drive around that much.
Other problems that most schools have: not every Professor is an amazing teacher(Sattar, Goljan etc wouldn't known as they are if this were the only school that didn't have a staff of 100% teaching prodigies. We have great professors, we have good professors, and we have a few not so great ones. The opinions of which professors belong in each of those categories also varies widely from student to student at times. As an adult learner, if a professor's teaching doesn't suit my learning style, I use that time covering that material from a resource that better suits me than attending that lecture. Own your choices.

Overall the things that are most important for me and I like about WesternU:
-Great placement and match rate-I know I will have a job when I graduate.
-Students match to great ACGME and AOA residencies.
-Average board scores are above national average and increasing as a result of recent changes.
-The faculty/staff are really happy. The university as a whole is known as being a great employer. Generally everyone is really happy here. Having happy employees and faculty really ends up permeating everything down into the student body. It makes a difference as it is far from being one of those toxic, negative environments. The faculty owns the curriculum, student input is valued, and innovation in benefit of the student is encouraged. The school really takes to heart the success of the students. Admin is truly cares and is always reasonable and fair.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Current OMS 2 at WesternU right now. I just had to reply to this thread because it came up in a Google search for something else. I read this thread a few years ago and coming back to it know, it's kind of funny to read, as it is pretty silly. The main OP is just exhibiting typical first semester med student stress and complaining, not unlike what you will see at any med school, just as other users mentioned. WesternU is a good school No, WesternU isn't perfect but med students always complain about the tiniest hiccups along the way. However, a lot of the ones who complain are simply the ones who don't have any real world work experience, and therefore lack awareness of the tremendous coordination that goes on behind the scenes of any institution, then end up being unforgiving of the slightest offense of suboptimal scheduling, grades being released a day late, etc. People just have weird unrealistic expectations for things. No, not everyone is available to cater to you at every moment. They are out in their practice seeing patients, or lecturing to other students, in committee meetings. They expect some sort of flawless 5-star customer service experience. Personally, I don't want a retail experience out of my school, I knew I wanted a warm environment that I was comfortable in. That's just me, some people prefer the latter and that is okay too. Choose the school that you feel is best for you.
A lot of the real desperation that OP showed dies down after first semester. People adjust and get used to the rhythm, and there are always a few that are just negative people who will complain wherever they are at any stage in their life.
Some specific things that were brought up in this thread that have changed:
-We are fine with rotation sites. We still rotate at ARMC and numerous other places in the area. We still rotate at the same hospitals that we did before the birth of UCR, and before Caribbean students started rotating at ARMC. This year when the second year class scheduled rotations next year, they had their largest excess in capacity of rotations available yet. The rotations office adds rotation sites constantly, they are foraging relationships around SoCal constantly. So, I wasn't here in 2012 when it seems they were having issues with that, if they were, it was totally turned around or just rumors because it certainly isn't an issue now. COMP is also establishing new residency sites regularly. Their OPTI-WEST residencies are growing and new have been added with more coming such as DRMC, Montclair Hospital etc.
-Campus safety-yeah Pomona isn't the greatest city. I grew up in a much safer area. I definitely wouldn't stay and raise a family here. It is fine temporarily. Campus security is excellent. I make sure valuables aren't in sight in my parked car, I get an escort if I have to walk far to my car when it's dark, otherwise I feel safe. Better yet, I park in the garage and I don't have to worry about either of those things.

Interesting new things:
Last year was the first year that they implemented cumulative board-style exams at the end of each semester. They contain questions directly from the NBME covering topics that we have covered up to that point. Each semester they get longer as we cover more material. They are administered in a manner consistent with the board test yet the stakes aren't overly stressful, they are just a chance to get a feel for board questions and be able to gain our retention/problem areas a long the way. Students are enjoying it.
We have an ultrasound curriculum that begins in the first year. This is the first year that it was implemented.

What do I not like?
Tuition-it is really expensive. But, it's not some surprise. It is a private school in an expensive state. Even the state schools in CA are extremely expensive now. Sometimes I think for a minute that maybe I should have applied to schools in other states where tuition is significantly cheaper, just to see a lower number in terms of debt after this. But, what's done is done and perhaps I would have other problems that I couldn't foresee. I am from CA and want to stay and practice in NorCal. Who knows if I would have like out of state, I probably would have been fine, but it's a waste of time to think about it now. I'm usually too busy studying to dwell on it when I can't really do anything about it now. I'll survive. I know how to live within my means well enough to be fine in terms of paying off my loans and having money to be satisfied with. Also, anytime I think about whether I should have gone somewhere else, I just remember that I really like WesternU. I like the vibe, it feels like home, and it's a good fit for me. That goes a long way, so I usually don't think about this for long or very often as the fit and vibe is a really big thing for me and is worth the $$.
Rotations-they are scattered all over. It would be nice to be at a school where all the third year cores are at the same place so that I didn't have to drive around. But, there is enough flexibility to set it up so that I don't have to drive around that much.
Other problems that most schools have: not every Professor is an amazing teacher(Sattar, Goljan etc wouldn't known as they are if this were the only school that didn't have a staff of 100% teaching prodigies. We have great professors, we have good professors, and we have a few not so great ones. The opinions of which professors belong in each of those categories also varies widely from student to student at times. As an adult learner, if a professor's teaching doesn't suit my learning style, I use that time covering that material from a resource that better suits me than attending that lecture. Own your choices.

Overall the things that are most important for me and I like about WesternU:
-Great placement and match rate-I know I will have a job when I graduate.
-Students match to great ACGME and AOA residencies.
-Average board scores are above national average and increasing as a result of recent changes.
-The faculty/staff are really happy. The university as a whole is known as being a great employer. Generally everyone is really happy here. Having happy employees and faculty really ends up permeating everything down into the student body. It makes a difference as it is far from being one of those toxic, negative environments. The faculty owns the curriculum, student input is valued, and innovation in benefit of the student is encouraged. The school really takes to heart the success of the students. Admin is truly cares and is always reasonable and fair.

lol lets wait to see how you enjoy rotating at the ****hole known as ARMC. More than half of all rotations are preceptorships or at locations that completely suck and have no residents to be able to get the necessary experience to get you to the next level. We simply do not have good rotation sites.

WesternU is a very poorly run institution overall. The classes are the way that the original post described it, and they do hand down a lot of garbage that's not board relevant. You have to do a lot outside on your own if you want to prepare yourself for boards. The cumulative exams are a joke. Nobody takes them seriously.

Yeah, after a semester you adapt. You also adapt to the smell of a sewer if you are there long enough.

As a first year I have to say I agree with everything that you said here. I'm glad that you as a 2nd year took the time to write this given that there's still a certain 3rd year lurking around who seems to take whatever opportunity he/she gets to criticize the school.

You bet I do. Most of you don't understand how good others have it, which is why you think Western is okay.

 

[SlugMD]

4 hours of OMT twice a week. Enough said.

Wow, 8 hours of OMM per week? I don't even think KCOM has that much OMM.

As cool as it would be to attend due to location, the curriculum and misplaced emphasis that WesternU has on certain concepts makes me very glad I will not be attending.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

For giggles I went back to my Rx account to see how wonderful WesternU students do on question banks compared to the national average. 15% less than the average? Oops.

 

[roaringunicorn]

In this thread:
1. Student expressing concern about school
2. False flag faculty of said school disguised as *student* trying to discredit OP.

Cant have people revealing the truth can we?

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

The new curriculum changes are what's causing many prospective CA students to forego Western for RVU, AZCOM, and, now, BCOM. OMS-II students doing these "small-group" "large-group" required sessions with podiatry and pharmacy students is ridiculous and takes up too much time when they should be studying for boards.
I think less than half the class at Western takes the USMLE which is, let's be honest, the only thing that is going to be important for DOs matching in non-primary care fields starting in a few months. In the past 2 years, RVU has placed graduates into programs at Ceders Sinai, UCLA's main campus, USC, and Kaiser's hollywood campus despite being a sixth of the age of Western. Having a solid pre-clinical education is very important and is something that has been lacking at Western for the past decade.

 

[Giovanotto]

OMT twice a week for 4 hours. 4 hours too many.

Hmm, what? I mean I'm okay with someone not liking a school, but lets not spread false information.

 

[Giovanotto]

lol lets wait to see how you enjoy rotating at the ****hole known as ARMC. More than half of all rotations are preceptorships or at locations that completely suck and have no residents to be able to get the necessary experience to get you to the next level. We simply do not have good rotation sites.

WesternU is a very poorly run institution overall. The classes are the way that the original post described it, and they do hand down a lot of garbage that's not board relevant. You have to do a lot outside on your own if you want to prepare yourself for boards. The cumulative exams are a joke. Nobody takes them seriously.

Yeah, after a semester you adapt. You also adapt to the smell of a sewer if you are there long enough.


You bet I do. Most of you don't understand how good others have it, which is why you think Western is okay.

How good do others have it? Serious question. I'm actually decently happy with the school so far, so I can't say that I relate with what you're saying. The pre-clinical curriculum so far seems pretty on-point and in congruence with a lot of board prep material. I am upset to hear that the clinical education is mostly preceptorship based though, I was not aware of that. Can anyone else shed some light into this? I thought WesternU had above average clinical rotation sites, am I wrong? How could they not especially given their location...

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

How good do others have it? Serious question. I'm actually decently happy with the school so far, so I can't say that I relate with what you're saying. The pre-clinical curriculum so far seems pretty on-point. I am upset to hear that the clinical education is mostly preceptorship based though, I was not aware of that. Can anyone else shed some light into this? I thought WesternU had above average clinical rotation sites, am I wrong? How could they not especially given their location...

Try following the pre-clinical education with what is in FA, FC or DIT. You'll see the things that are left out and how unnecessary things are added.

Other institutions use NBME questions for their systems. Other institutions don't have small groups, which you don't understand how wasteful they are because you're in IDIT. Other schools spend 2 hours a week on OMM instead 4 and don't have a cranial week or forced rotation on OMM. Other colleges don't waste your time with IPE. Other colleges have cadaver labs that are not borderline hazardous to your health.

You'll get to clinical and find out. If you're smart, you will avoid ARMC like the plague. The area WesternU is in, is entirely meaningless when they don't want to pay preceptors and lost some of the best sites to UCR. Soon they will be opening a new DO school in Bakersfield area and ARMC is supposed to go to an MD school they are making. Maybe one day you'll rotate at RLA for your IM3 and find out you see 3 patients a week. Many wonderful things to come. Trust me.

 

[Giovanotto]

Try following the pre-clinical education with what is in FA, FC or DIT. You'll see the things that are left out and how unnecessary things are added.

Other institutions use NBME questions for their systems. Other institutions don't have small groups, which you don't understand how wasteful they are because you're in IDIT. Other schools spend 2 hours a week on OMM instead 4 and don't have a cranial week or forced rotation on OMM. Other colleges don't waste your time with IPE. Other colleges have cadaver labs that are not borderline hazardous to your health.

You'll get to clinical and find out. If you're smart, you will avoid ARMC like the plague. The area WesternU is in, is entirely meaningless when they don't want to pay preceptors and lost some of the best sites to UCR. Soon they will be opening a new DO school in Bakersfield area and ARMC is supposed to go to an MD school they are making. Maybe one day you'll rotate at RLA for your IM3 and find out you see 3 patients a week. Many wonderful things to come. Trust me.

Gah, stop it, you're freaking me out. And I can't say I disagree with everything you've said, although IDIT IS kicking my ass, it cant get any worse, right? right?. By the way, I'm actually okay with OMM, so I don't mind that aspect of it. But the IPE is definitely a killer. Oh and the cadaver lab is nuts, I agree, what were they thinking? Is it that hard to have fume hoods or some sort of ventilation system in there, good lord...

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Gah, stop it, you're freaking me out. And I can't say I disagree with everything you've said, although IDIT IS kicking my ass, it cant get any worse, right? right?. By the way, I'm actually okay with OMM, so I don't mind that aspect of it. But the IPE is definitely a killer. Oh and the cadaver lab is nuts, I agree, what were they thinking? Is it that hard to have fume hoods or some sort of ventilation system in there, good lord...

Have you taken the second test for it yet? You'll experience it and then keep in mind the 3rd worse and to most people neuro is even harder (personally I thought it was easier, but also I want to be a neurologist). 2nd year the tough ones are cardio, renal and repro. Then it's the good life except for having to study for boards.

 

[Giovanotto]

Have you taken the second test for it yet? You'll experience it and then keep in mind the 3rd worse and to most people neuro is even harder (personally I thought it was easier, but also I want to be a neurologist). 2nd year the tough ones are cardio, renal and repro. Then it's the good life except for having to study for boards.

Not yet, but I hear it's tough, I'm pretty nervous about it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Not yet, but I hear it's tough, I'm pretty nervous about it.

The key is immunology. I heard they got rid of guy that looks like an Ewok that taught pharm, so that should help.

 

[Giovanotto]

The key is immunology. I heard they got rid of guy that looks like an Ewok that taught pharm, so that should help.

Pharm is going to kill me actually, the lectures make as much sense as hard shell tacos. Immunology seems okay, however.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Pharm is going to kill me actually, the lectures make as much sense as hard shell tacos. Immunology seems okay, however.

Because you haven't seen the questions. 3rd order stuff (kinda jk). Pharm takes time to process since it's rote memorization. You'll be fine. Good luck!

 

[captjaneway]

OMT twice a week for 4 hours. Enough said.

We do not have OMM twice a week for 4 hours. It is once a week for 4 hours. Half of the class goes one afternoon and the other half goes the other afternoon.

 

[captjaneway]

How good do others have it? Serious question. I'm actually decently happy with the school so far, so I can't say that I relate with what you're saying. The pre-clinical curriculum so far seems pretty on-point and in congruence with a lot of board prep material. I am upset to hear that the clinical education is mostly preceptorship based though, I was not aware of that. Can anyone else shed some light into this? I thought WesternU had above average clinical rotation sites, am I wrong? How could they not especially given their location...

WesternU is fine. This guy is TOXIC. If you like it, you like it. A lot of the **** he posts is just straight incorrect. The rest is that the school isn't a good fit for him. There are always a handful of students in every class. I doubt he knows "how great other schools have it" unless he has done some time in a medical school somewhere else. Are there places that have better rotations? Of course, especially if you're talking about MD schools that have their own hospitals. There are a lot of schools that are better at a lot different things. At every one of those schools there are people like him that complain about everything along the way. He's simply one of the people that like to **** on everything everywhere they go. I just don't get people that bitch all the time about the problems wherever they go, as if they were forced to go there in the first place. Then they don't want to step up and get involved to help make change. Because again, they just **** all over everything because that is what they do in every situation to cope, then they wonder why "it smells like a sewer".

 

[captjaneway]

In this thread:
1. Student expressing concern about school
2. False flag faculty of said school disguised as *student* trying to discredit OP.

Cant have people revealing the truth can we?

lol head back over to infowars dude.
more like:
1. Student bitching about life
2. Other student forgets that after being admitted to med school, the only people who usually come back on here the ones who want somewhere to whine, complain, and blame others for how hard life is.

 

[captjaneway]

The new curriculum changes are what's causing many prospective CA students to forego Western for RVU, AZCOM, and, now, BCOM. OMS-II students doing these "small-group" "large-group" required sessions with podiatry and pharmacy students is ridiculous and takes up too much time when they should be studying for boards.
I think less than half the class at Western takes the USMLE which is, let's be honest, the only thing that is going to be important for DOs matching in non-primary care fields starting in a few months. In the past 2 years, RVU has placed graduates into programs at Ceders Sinai, UCLA's main campus, USC, and Kaiser's hollywood campus despite being a sixth of the age of Western. Having a solid pre-clinical education is very important and is something that has been lacking at Western for the past decade.

A lot of this info is incorrect:
-The large groups/small groups do not include pharmacy students. Some of the groups have Podiatry students in them as they have almost the exact same pre-clinical curriculum as us. Not a big deal.
-Large groups are not mandatory. Small groups are but you can often miss one. These are like 1-2x per week in the second year, 3 max in the first year. But it depends on the course. They range from 1-3 hours long. They are extremely laid back and you get what you make of them. I like my group, we kick it and talk through the cases, learn and eat food. We hardly have any small groups anymore because yeah, we are getting closer to boards season.
-Less than half the class taking the USMLE? That is an old stat at best. Plenty more than half the class takes it. A massive portion of the class each year does go into primary care, however, that number is shrinking. Back when well more than half the class went into primary care, it's not surprising that less than half took the USMLE. They didn't need to.

 

[GUH]

OMT twice a week for 4 hours. Enough said.

It was four hours per week two years ago. When did it change?

 

[GUH]

Gah, stop it, you're freaking me out. And I can't say I disagree with everything you've said, although IDIT IS kicking my ass, it cant get any worse, right? right?. By the way, I'm actually okay with OMM, so I don't mind that aspect of it. But the IPE is definitely a killer. Oh and the cadaver lab is nuts, I agree, what were they thinking? Is it that hard to have fume hoods or some sort of ventilation system in there, good lord...

Neuro was worse than IDIT for most of us when we went through it but I've heard that the Neuro teaching has been improved, even though it's still a tough class.

How good do others have it? Serious question. I'm actually decently happy with the school so far, so I can't say that I relate with what you're saying. The pre-clinical curriculum so far seems pretty on-point and in congruence with a lot of board prep material. I am upset to hear that the clinical education is mostly preceptorship based though, I was not aware of that. Can anyone else shed some light into this? I thought WesternU had above average clinical rotation sites, am I wrong? How could they not especially given their location...

Maybe it's different now, but for third year I had six preceptor-based rotations and five wards-based rotations. But of the six preceptor-based rotations, three were inpatient in hospitals, two were FM and OMM (which should be outpatient anyways), and the last one was an elective that I really wanted. For fourth year, all of my rotations have been on inpatient teaching services. I don't know whether our core rotations are "above average" or "below average" but I'm pretty satisfied and feel reasonably well-prepared for residency.

 

[captjaneway]

lol lets wait to see how you enjoy rotating at the ****hole known as ARMC. More than half of all rotations are preceptorships or at locations that completely suck and have no residents to be able to get the necessary experience to get you to the next level. We simply do not have good rotation sites.

WesternU is a very poorly run institution overall. The classes are the way that the original post described it, and they do hand down a lot of garbage that's not board relevant. You have to do a lot outside on your own if you want to prepare yourself for boards. The cumulative exams are a joke. Nobody takes them seriously.

Yeah, after a semester you adapt. You also adapt to the smell of a sewer if you are there long enough.


You bet I do. Most of you don't understand how good others have it, which is why you think Western is okay.

It's all about expectation. I knew I wasn't going to get mind-blowing rotations when I decided to attend a DO school and not an MD school with its own hospital. However, not everything is about being with residents either. Especially when you have to compete with residents for procedures because they need to do the procedures to graduate. That's why I avoided ARMC and I most definitely avoided the RLA ****hole, as you don't get to see many patients and it's pretty toxic (like SDN).

There is more to medicine that what is in First Aid. I wouldn't want a curriculum based off of what is in board prep resources as some students think a curriculum should be. The classes are the way the original post described it for those who need their hand held through everything. Is there content that can be cut down? Yeah, but it sure as hell should not be as bare bones as the ****ing review resources.

The cumulative exams aren't supposed to be taken that seriously? What the hell are you expecting people to do? Studying only for the cumulative exams all semester long? They're meant to be a way to gauge your retention and get earlier exposure to some exam questions. Who cares how seriously other people take it. Perhaps it was different for your class as they started in your second year, but our class pretty unanimously likes them. They're a no pressure way to gauge raw retention of the content.

But alas, as I said in another post, it appears most of the people coming back here once they are in med school are those that like to wallow in the SDN cesspool of ****. Life isn't perfect, few institutions are perfect. But, I chose to be at one that recognizes its faults and is working to change. Every university, workplace, and person has faults but it is more difficult to find the latter. Things get frustrating and piss me off at times too but I get my **** done and step up to initiate change when I think there is a better approach. That will always be the situation in life no matter where you do your residency or where you work. I'm pretty damn happy and kickin ass, I see now part of that is because I don't spend my whole ****ing life on SDN.

So with that, good ****ing riddance SDN. It was short(thank goodness) but thanks for reminding me why I get all of my info about schools and residencies from far more adult locations.

 

[captjaneway]

Neuro was worse than IDIT for most of us when we went through it but I've heard that the Neuro teaching has been improved, even though it's still a tough class.
Maybe it's different now, but for third year I had six preceptor-based rotations and five wards-based rotations. But of the six preceptor-based rotations, three were inpatient in hospitals, two were FM and OMM (which should be outpatient anyways), and the last one was an elective that I really wanted. For fourth year, all of my rotations have been on inpatient teaching services. I don't know whether our core rotations are "above average" or "below average" but I'm pretty satisfied and feel reasonably well-prepared for residency.

Agree, Neuro was worse than IDIT. But, IDIT was definitely the runner up for most people. You'll get through it Giovanotto It is definitely where the steep climb starts, it is an ass-kicker. However, after Neuro it is relatively down hill from there as long as you keep your steady pace. Don't underestimate MSK tho! Not hard but easy to blow off. A lot people got their asses kicked on that exam. It can be really difficult to stay engaged after such a long semester, such seemingly simple material, and summer knockin on the door.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

WesternU is fine. This guy is TOXIC. If you like it, you like it. A lot of the **** he posts is just straight incorrect. The rest is that the school isn't a good fit for him. There are always a handful of students in every class. I doubt he knows "how great other schools have it" unless he has done some time in a medical school somewhere else. Are there places that have better rotations? Of course, especially if you're talking about MD schools that have their own hospitals. There are a lot of schools that are better at a lot different things. At every one of those schools there are people like him that complain about everything along the way. He's simply one of the people that like to **** on everything everywhere they go. I just don't get people that bitch all the time about the problems wherever they go, as if they were forced to go there in the first place. Then they don't want to step up and get involved to help make change. Because again, they just **** all over everything because that is what they do in every situation to cope, then they wonder why "it smells like a sewer".

You have only 5 posts specifically made to this forum because you probably are part of the school administration trying to clean the record.

Please, do quote me exactly on what I have said that is "straight incorrect." Everything I've said is fact.

No, I don't "bitch about the problems wherever I go." I'm specifically talking about WesternU. I've had great experiences at other colleges, particularly community colleges. I'm not the only one that feels that way. During my week coming back to the school I ran into my advisor that told me that the cardio course was getting trashed in the reviews. They had already fired the person that did it for my class and the other person running it has managed to bomb it. In fact, things are so bad that the school couldn't even get a cardiologist to teach the cardiology class but instead were learning EKGs from Family Medicine. Similarly happened in my year where the school is so embarrassing it can't hire a real psychiatrist to run the psychiatry class. Instead it's a nurse with a PsyD that runs the course.

A lot of this info is incorrect:
-The large groups/small groups do not include pharmacy students. Some of the groups have Podiatry students in them as they have almost the exact same pre-clinical curriculum as us. Not a big deal.
-Large groups are not mandatory. Small groups are but you can often miss one. These are like 1-2x per week in the second year, 3 max in the first year. But it depends on the course. They range from 1-3 hours long. They are extremely laid back and you get what you make of them. I like my group, we kick it and talk through the cases, learn and eat food. We hardly have any small groups anymore because yeah, we are getting closer to boards season.
-Less than half the class taking the USMLE? That is an old stat at best. Plenty more than half the class takes it. A massive portion of the class each year does go into primary care, however, that number is shrinking. Back when well more than half the class went into primary care, it's not surprising that less than half took the USMLE. They didn't need to.

I don't know how it works for your year, but sure large groups are not mandatory if you don't care about losing potentially 5-10% of your grade in clicked questions.

You used to be able to drop one grade from small group, but they were almost all 3-4 hours long.

70% of the class took the USMLE. In addition, about 30% of the class had to delay boards because the school didn't prepare them adequately. The average for the 70% that took it was about a 226ish, which is below national average.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It's all about expectation. I knew I wasn't going to get mind-blowing rotations when I decided to attend a DO school and not an MD school with its own hospital. However, not everything is about being with residents either. Especially when you have to compete with residents for procedures because they need to do the procedures to graduate. That's why I avoided ARMC and I most definitely avoided the RLA ****hole, as you don't get to see many patients and it's pretty toxic (like SDN).

You just said you were an OMS-II. How do you know that RLA is a ****hole or that you should really avoid ARMC? More evidence you're just a shill paid by the school.

 

[Giovanotto]

Agree, Neuro was worse than IDIT. But, IDIT was definitely the runner up for most people. You'll get through it Giovanotto It is definitely where the steep climb starts, it is an ass-kicker. However, after Neuro it is relatively down hill from there as long as you keep your steady pace. Don't underestimate MSK tho! Not hard but easy to blow off. A lot people got their asses kicked on that exam. It can be really difficult to stay engaged after such a long semester, such seemingly simple material, and summer knockin on the door.

Thanks man, IDIT is actually turning out to be a lot easier than everyone was making it out to be. I slayed that second exam real good.

 

[MADD!!!]

@AlbinoHawk DO Thank you for taking the time to write these things about WesternU. I know some ppl give you baggage for it, but I could tell you say things out of sincerity and it's how you really feel. How people interpret what you say is up to them, but thanks for keeping it real.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

You just said you were an OMS-II. How do you know that RLA is a ****hole or that you should really avoid ARMC? More evidence you're just a shill paid by the school.

They've already got their rotation sites?

Honestly, none of their post can be trusted as legitimate since we have seen time and again admissions workers pulling stunts like this with like only 5 total posts. I sincerely hope a counselor or admissions rep wouldn't do this.


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[AlbinoHawk DO]

They've already got their rotation sites?

Honestly, none of their post can be trusted as legitimate since we have seen time and again admissions workers pulling stunts like this with like only 5 total posts. I sincerely hope a counselor or admissions rep wouldn't do this.


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They should have the sites they will go to, but they have not gone to any of those sites.

 

[hallowmann]

Try following the pre-clinical education with what is in FA, FC or DIT. You'll see the things that are left out and how unnecessary things are added.

Other institutions use NBME questions for their systems. Other institutions don't have small groups, which you don't understand how wasteful they are because you're in IDIT. Other schools spend 2 hours a week on OMM instead 4 and don't have a cranial week or forced rotation on OMM. Other colleges don't waste your time with IPE. Other colleges have cadaver labs that are not borderline hazardous to your health.

You'll get to clinical and find out. If you're smart, you will avoid ARMC like the plague. The area WesternU is in, is entirely meaningless when they don't want to pay preceptors and lost some of the best sites to UCR. Soon they will be opening a new DO school in Bakersfield area and ARMC is supposed to go to an MD school they are making. Maybe one day you'll rotate at RLA for your IM3 and find out you see 3 patients a week. Many wonderful things to come. Trust me.

As an outsider looking in, I'd like to address some of these after talking to a bunch of students from Western on the trail:

1. From what I hear ARMC does NOT offer the best rotations for learning. A lot of people described days filled with either shadowing or scut. Now that said, no DO school has perfect rotations, and some of the sites that Western students go to are actually quite nice and have been in the game for a while. Rotation-wise, Western actually sounds like the standard DO school (i.e. average).

2. Almost all DO schools do 2-4 hrs of OMM a week. That's not unique to COMP. Itf its 8 hrs though, that does seem excessive and unnecessary.

3. That cranial week seems worthless and set at a bad time at the end of 2nd year. I feel sorry for you guys about that. But hey, if you like cranial and are opening up a "holistic" cranial cash-only clinic in socal... don't.

4. All med schools I am even remotely familiar with (MD and DO) teach you a lot of stuff that is not "board relevant" or "high yield". Seriously this is not unique to COMP, nor is it unique to DO schools.

5. I don't know what IDIT is.

6. Every COM has to do IPE (if we're talking about the same thing). I'm pretty sure it's a COCA requirement or something. Its a part of our online curriculum during clinicals, so it takes like a day to do, and it's based on experiences we have in 3rd/4th year, because our rotations are pretty interprofessional because that's just how residencies are nowadays.

7. Every COM, and actually some MD schools (look at the ones in NYC and the whole Carib crisis a few years back) struggles with losing and having to establish new rotation sites. It's something that needs to be fixed, especially at DO schools. Not sure if that's going to happen with the expansion going at this rate.

8. Yeah, not every COM has a mandatory OMM rotation, but it's honestly not the worst thing in the world, nor is it that big of a deal.

So overall, I agree as an outsider with some familiarity with COMP that some things don't sound great, but overall a lot is what you'll find at other schools, especially other COMs.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

As an outsider looking in, I'd like to address some of these after talking to a bunch of students from Western on the trail:

1. From what I hear ARMC does NOT offer the best rotations for learning. A lot of people described days filled with either shadowing or scut. Now that said, no DO school has perfect rotations, and some of the sites that Western students go to are actually quite nice and have been in the game for a while. Rotation-wise, Western actually sounds like the standard DO school (i.e. average).

2. Almost all DO schools do 2-4 hrs of OMM a week. That's not unique to COMP. Itf its 8 hrs though, that does seem excessive and unnecessary.

3. That cranial week seems worthless and set at a bad time at the end of 2nd year. I feel sorry for you guys about that. But hey, if you like cranial and are opening up a "holistic" cranial cash-only clinic in socal... don't.

4. All med schools I am even remotely familiar with (MD and DO) teach you a lot of stuff that is not "board relevant" or "high yield". Seriously this is not unique to COMP, nor is it unique to DO schools.

5. I don't know what IDIT is.

6. Every COM has to do IPE (if we're talking about the same thing). I'm pretty sure it's a COCA requirement or something. Its a part of our online curriculum during clinicals, so it takes like a day to do, and it's based on experiences we have in 3rd/4th year, because our rotations are pretty interprofessional because that's just how residencies are nowadays.

7. Every COM, and actually some MD schools (look at the ones in NYC and the whole Carib crisis a few years back) struggles with losing and having to establish new rotation sites. It's something that needs to be fixed, especially at DO schools. Not sure if that's going to happen with the expansion going at this rate.

8. Yeah, not every COM has a mandatory OMM rotation, but it's honestly not the worst thing in the world, nor is it that big of a deal.

So overall, I agree as an outsider with some familiarity with COMP that some things don't sound great, but overall a lot is what you'll find at other schools, especially other COMs.

2. We get 4 hours. Maybe once a semester we get a week that's 2 hours. My understanding is that schools like LMU-DCOM do 2 hours period.
4. The problem is not so much adding stuff that's not board relevant. The problem is when you turn to FA and find 1/3 of it was not covered so that stuff that's not board relevant is covered.
6. As far as I know, we are the only COM with IPE; at least our schools sells it this way. This is a class that meets first year for about 2 hours with members of veterinary, podiatry, PA, dentistry, etc. to discuss cases and each profession pretends they know what their profession does but nobody does because nobody has any experience in the field. During second year there is a bunch of garbage done online with a final project in the end.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

4. All med schools I am even remotely familiar with (MD and DO) teach you a lot of stuff that is not "board relevant" or "high yield". Seriously this is not unique to COMP, nor is it unique to DO schools.

It's not soo much about learning stuff outside "board relevant or high yield" but moreso about how the "board relevant" material isn't even covered in the first place. Many students struggle with the boards because they realize just how little is covered despite the crazy schedule.

 

[SlugMD]

I believe IDIT stands for "Intro to Disease, Immunity, and Therapeutics" basically a combined path, immuno, and pharm class

5. I don't know what IDIT is.

 

[hallowmann]

2. We get 4 hours. Maybe once a semester we get a week that's 2 hours. My understanding is that schools like LMU-DCOM do 2 hours period.
4. The problem is not so much adding stuff that's not board relevant. The problem is when you turn to FA and find 1/3 of it was not covered so that stuff that's not board relevant is covered.
6. As far as I know, we are the only COM with IPE; at least our schools sells it this way. This is a class that meets first year for about 2 hours with members of veterinary, podiatry, PA, dentistry, etc. to discuss cases and each profession pretends they know what their profession does but nobody does because nobody has any experience in the field. During second year there is a bunch of garbage done online with a final project in the end.

I'm pretty sure some form of IPE is required at every COM, but each one can put their own spin on it. It seems kind of pointless to do it in 1st year honestly. We have interprofessional interaction on a lot of our rotations and basically have an online course and have to write "reflections" about those experiences. I'm sorry your's seems a bit involved.

Obviously I don't know the details of your curriculum. There were holes in my curriculum too when it came time for dedicated study, but not much. People at COMP still manage to do OK on boards though, so it can't be that bad.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm pretty sure some form of IPE is required at every COM, but each one can put their own spin on it. It seems kind of pointless to do it in 1st year honestly. We have interprofessional interaction on a lot of our rotations and basically have an online course and have to write "reflections" about those experiences. I'm sorry your's seems a bit involved.

Obviously I don't know the details of your curriculum. There were holes in my curriculum too when it came time for dedicated study, but not much. People at COMP still manage to do OK on boards though, so it can't be that bad.

That would make more sense to me to have IPE when we actually know something of our profession.

Yeah, we do manage to do okay on boards, but I can't say the school ever gave me any guidance. It was all independently done.

 

[Doctor Zivago]

Thanks for the informative post. Honestly, I'm pretty surprised and not exactly sure what to think because Western COMP is generally considered to be a top osteopathic school.

Thanks for your advise. Did you pass a board exam?

 

[3member]

You just said you were an OMS-II. How do you know that RLA is a ****hole or that you should really avoid ARMC? More evidence you're just a shill paid by the school.

how embarrassing... on westU's part...

 

[Siggy]

However, a lot of the ones who complain are simply the ones who don't have any real world work experience, and therefore lack awareness of the tremendous coordination that goes on behind the scenes of any institution, then end up being unforgiving of the slightest offense of suboptimal scheduling, grades being released a day late, etc. People just have weird unrealistic expectations for things. No, not everyone is available to cater to you at every moment. They are out in their practice seeing patients, or lecturing to other students, in committee meetings.

Oh, bull ****.

Suboptimal scheduling? You mean like being denied rotations at hospitals with AOA residencies because the school didn't want to pay for insurance? You mean like selling one version of preclinical education and halfway through 1st year having it switched? There's a word for that everyplace else... bait and switch... and it's generally unlawful. You mean like having a parent die while on rotation and have the scheduling clerk say that you might not return to the site DESPITE TELLING THEM THAT YOU WOULD? Hell, when my mother died, the school didn't even get around to approving my time off request until AFTER I had graduated. I didn't wait, but a "Culture of Caring" applies to everyone but the administration of that unholy money printing machine of a soulless university. ...but yea... I'm unforgiving because of those "slight offenses." I won't even get into the complete BS that is rotating at "everyone gets a finger in the butt so we can bill Medicare more" hospital known as Chino Valley (and yea... not everyone with a slightly low albumin level is suffering from "malnutrition").

The attached JPG is from the rotation portal at the time. I hope no one's family member dies during a rotation considering that they can't even find the god damn ticket that was created (I made it on the 2nd, and the URL is obscure).

On the other hand, if you want to know an institution that cares about students, it was the Mount Sinai Florida EM residency. They cared 100 times more despite being told that my Mom had an ICH on my way to my first rotation shift than my school cared about. Western University, where TPS reports matter more than students.

Better yet, I park in the garage and I don't have to worry about either of those things.

I've had my car broken into in the parking garage when I was there. The school does what it can with security, but I don't want you to get a false sense of security because you park in the structure.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Lol I’ve been on these boards for a while talking about COMP’s issues but everyone always dismisses them.


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[MADD!!!]

Lol I’ve been on these boards for a while talking about COMP’s issues but everyone always dismisses them.


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I'll tell you this.... the majority of COMP students who are from SoCal would settle for just about anything just b/c of location. In fact, some would hope the faculty to be even worse to deter stronger students from coming. CA is too saturated man, especially SoCal.