match and scramble

[pipetman]

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curious.

lets say you scramble and don't match, for whatever reason. What do students do in the year before they can enter the match again?

Its a valid question...various reasons for not being able to match/scramble seem to be picking too few programs or failing boards. Yes, top students will generally end up somewhere. Most students fall in the middle..so what happens then? Any one have a story to share?

 

[DPMer]

curious.

lets say you scramble and don't match, for whatever reason. What do students do in the year before they can enter the match again?

Its a valid question...various reasons for not being able to match/scramble seem to be picking too few programs or failing boards. Yes, top students will generally end up somewhere. Most students fall in the middle..so what happens then? Any one have a story to share?

That's what I am wondering too. I am a 4th year and this has been a lingering question. There will be a small number of us in the Class of 2012 who will be in such a predicament. I could just imagine what happens:

1) Apply for a job not involved in podiatry.

2) Reapply for residency until you get a spot.

3) Go back to school: get an MD (a good number of previous graduates from the Class of 2010 and 2011 are doing this)

What other scenario/options to survive and move on?

 

[amaprez]

That's what I am wondering too. I am a 4th year and this has been a lingering question. There will be a small number of us in the Class of 2012 who will be in such a predicament. I could just imagine what happens:

1) Apply for a job not involved in podiatry.

2) Reapply for residency until you get a spot.

3) Go back to school: get an MD (a good number of previous graduates from the Class of 2010 and 2011 are doing this)

What other scenario/options to survive and move on?

Wow are you serious? They'd rather do that for 4 more years than wait one year to reapply for residency?

 

[Ferocity]

That's what I am wondering too. I am a 4th year and this has been a lingering question. There will be a small number of us in the Class of 2012 who will be in such a predicament. I could just imagine what happens:

1) Apply for a job not involved in podiatry.

2) Reapply for residency until you get a spot.

3) Go back to school: get an MD (a good number of previous graduates from the Class of 2010 and 2011 are doing this)

What other scenario/options to survive and move on?

...Uh....

 

[DPMer]

Wow are you serious? They'd rather do that for 4 more years than wait one year to reapply for residency?

Yes. I know one guy from the Class of 2010 who is 31 now. He is taking the MCAT and applying to US allopathic medical schools. He does not like podiatry anymore. And there are others from the Class of 2010 and the Class of 2011 who are considering this as an option if they 1) do not get a podiatry residency or 2) they somehow do not like podiatry anymore.

 

[Adam Smasher]

One guy in my class plans to sue the school if he doesn't place.

No, I don't think he'll get anything from it.

 

[hematosis]

Glad to hear that. Its hideous that these schools are accepting more students while knowing that there is not enough residency slots available to support such numbers. Its quite unprofessional that the deans of some of these schools are allowing this. I know that legally they can do this but it truly reflects poor judgement on the schools part.

If you have a residency crisis what is the first thing you should do?
Reduce the class sizes.

 

[347932]

Glad to hear that. Its hideous that these schools are accepting more students while knowing that there is not enough residency slots available to support such numbers. Its quite unprofessional that the deans of some of these schools are allowing this. I know that legally they can do this but it truly reflects poor judgement on the schools part.

If you have a residency crisis what is the first thing you should do?
Reduce the class sizes.

We have discussed this over and over again on these forums. Please go back and read the threads that pertain to your comments as they've been defunct in many other responses.

 

[347932]

...That is, this is a kill or be killed kind of profession. Everything is really on the student. You have to get a good gpa and you have to pass your boards the first time. Fail to do either and you decrease your chances of matching considerably. The saddest part will be those students who are greased by via pod school X when they really should have been dismissed in the first place. Then they don't match and have an insurmountable amount of debt to pay off. UNREAL!

Life is kill or be killed. Wait until you get into practice.

Regardless of where you go there will ALWAYS be someone waiting and looking over your shoulder. The sooner you get used to it, the easier it will be to cope with down the road.

It is not the school that make this situation sad. It is the student. I'm sorry for being harsh, but I don't feel bad for these people. They need to realize it is on THEM and no one else. The ones I feel bad for is the ones that slip through the cracks. The bright ones that for one reason or another don't match, or get into a bad situation due to bad circumstances. I feel bad for them, but hope for them that they pull themselves out of it and get through.

As someone mentioned in this thread, one of the students in their class will sue if they don't place. As crazy as it sounds, schools are threatened over dismissing students as well. In the underclass to mine three students where JAILED because of a drug problem and distribution rap. They sued the school saying it was because of the stress of the curriculum. Really??

Students that enter and can't make the curriculum and leave or are dismissed already have a huge debt to pay back. $50 000 per year about. How are they going to pay that back after leaving even after the first year? Are you really pointing the finger at the school here? That's what kills me about the posts that ask about whether they will get in with a 19 MCAT and 2.88GPA. They might get in, but can they handle it? My guess is no, but hey, do you give them a try or not? They get accepted, they can't cut it for obvious reasons and then blame the school for their failures. Or fair so poorly that they can't land a residency and then once again put the blame on the schools for the debt they now incurred and have to pay back.

Sorry to tell you all, but the onus of success rests on YOUR shoulders. Blame whatever or whoever you want, but ultimately, the responsibility is yours.

 

[347932]

I'm the student, you aren't.

You're forgetting that I WAS a student in a far worse situation than you are and here's why.

When I was a student not only were there not enough residencies to go around, but not all the residencies were surgical, so even if you did score a program you weren't guaranteed surgical training. You then had to go back in the mix again and compete for those few surgical spots. Or you did what I did. Bust your butt and look for programs that only took people that had had a year. Those of us who paid attention saw the writing on the wall about the future need for surgical training. Funny enough, the second time around I was offered every program I interviewed at.

Since you are still a student how can you profess to know so much about the bright ones that slipped through the cracks and why? I was in the process as an interviewer and saw this happen to some very bright students who just got unlucky. I can tell you that every single one of them rose above and made it work somehow, and eventually made out just fine.

 

[347932]

It's really not as cut and dry as you make it.

Maybe not, but it's certainly not as complex as some on these forums make it out to be.

I've seen, first hand, students who should not be given a second a chance are clearly given one. Sure maybe there were extenuating circumstances that they faced the year prior but there is also a good chance they just couldn't hack it and instead of ADVISING them to pursue other interests they are brought back for another year...another year of tuition...another year of living expenses. They are down 100K before they reach their second year of school!

Are you sure they weren't ADVISED to try something else?Where you actually in those meetings to know this information?

Please tell me about this first hand experience you have. Convince me you actually know what you're talking about, because I don't think you, as a student, are privy to these private meetings between the student in trouble, the Dean and certainly Faculty.

I hope you're not saying this because one of those students in trouble confided in you what went down during one of these meetings. I would be hard pressed to think anyone would tell you what really went on in a meeting like this, particularly that these are confidential meetings.

How do you know so much?

 

[347932]

Overcoming $50k and $150k are two significantly different figures. If it's 50k MAYBE a family member can step in and alleviate some of this financial debt. $150k with no job after 4 years of school is a death sentence. You spent 4 years of your life in school and still don't end up with a job?

You need to start reading some economic/financial literature. If you did, then you would quickly realize that the path to financial success has very little to do with your training in ANY profession. You know how many unemployed attorneys there are right now?

I hate to tell you this, but Doctors are going bankrupt every day. You worry about $150K of debt? Some docs have a lot more at stake then that. Some docs are out of a job with a mortgage, three kids to put through college, student debt to pay back still and a whole host of other debts to repay and nothing to pay it back with.

I'm not trying to minimize the problem, but you are presently living in a bubble with very few problems other than doing well for yourself and landing a good residency. Dr. Mike Downey said it best. The least amount of stress you will have with life and career is when you are in school. The real work/headaches start after you're done with that.

Don't believe me? Start reading and asking around, because clearly my experiences have little value to you.

 

[347932]

Our dean was very upfront with us during our class meeting. They don't want us to make the same mistakes.

Ohhhhhh, you're Dean told you so and now you're an expert?

 

[347932]

You're telling me that I shouldn't take my Dean's advice? Now that's bold. I think this moderator position is going to your head.

Interesting that you took my comment in that way.

Take your Deans advice. By ALL means.

BUT don't pretend to know what you don't and call someone out who has been there, done that and been part of the process. And don't be that guy who pretends that rumors he hears are the gospel and claims that he knows because of them. They are called rumors for a reason. You have NO IDEA what goes on behind those closed doors, so stop pretending.

The fact is that you don't know, but are acting like a hot shot because you think you're anonymous on these forums. I think THAT'S going to your head.

 

[amaprez]

You're telling me that I shouldn't take my Dean's advice? Now that's bold. I think this moderator position is going to your head.

There's a definite line between productive debate and personal attacks and I think we've just crossed that line in this thread, no?

Not to mention this thread is now totally off topic. Let's not let yet ANOTHER thread turn into a mudslinging pissing contest over differing opinions. There are enough of those threads as it is 🙁

 

[347932]

I think that's one thing about professional school you have forgotten in your days of being a health professional. People talk about other people's business.

I can't wait until you get a dose of reality. You think this is just in school??? Just you wait.

Explain to me how you know we are all wrong and have no idea of whats really going on? Prove to me that you know something more about this situation that we all don't.

I was on a student committee that reviewed the process to make sure it was handled fairly and was involved in some cases of students that were on the verge and worked to HELP them overcome. I'm not sure they do that anymore. I've been involved in the process of interviewing students for residencies which gave me access to some of their records. So I saw what most don't. Especially not their classmates. They do keep records of some of these things. I've also found that some of these "trouble" students just needed the right kind of help and turned around beautifully. And you?

Is that better?

 

[347932]

I'm a hot shot because I disagree with you. Hello!? The forums were created so people can debate. You don't want to agree with me that's fine.

I'll let you in on a little secret though. I'm not that anonymous. The administration knows who I am.

No Ankle Breaker. You're a hot shot because you are calling me out and attacking me for no reason other than I disagree with you and am calling you to shots with what you think you know, but have already confessed that you don't.

Disagree with me all you want, but when you pretend to know and don't, the basis of your disagreement dissolves. And then you resort to insults.

THAT'S why you're a hot shot. I hope you don't do that in your residency interviews. You may be surprised at the outcome. Remember, I've been there, done that. I know what this attitude can buy you.

 

[hematosis]

Life is kill or be killed. Wait until you get into practice.

Regardless of where you go there will ALWAYS be someone waiting and looking over your shoulder. The sooner you get used to it, the easier it will be to cope with down the road.

It is not the school that make this situation sad. It is the student. I'm sorry for being harsh, but I don't feel bad for these people. They need to realize it is on THEM and no one else. The ones I feel bad for is the ones that slip through the cracks. The bright ones that for one reason or another don't match, or get into a bad situation due to bad circumstances. I feel bad for them, but hope for them that they pull themselves out of it and get through.

As someone mentioned in this thread, one of the students in their class will sue if they don't place. As crazy as it sounds, schools are threatened over dismissing students as well. In the underclass to mine three students where JAILED because of a drug problem and distribution rap. They sued the school saying it was because of the stress of the curriculum. Really??



Sorry to tell you all, but the onus of success rests on YOUR shoulders. Blame whatever or whoever you want, but ultimately, the responsibility is yours.

KF, Last time I checked the Residency Genesis data, we still had more graduates than residency spots available. Thus this issue is not so "defunct " as you state it to be. (Class of 2012: 548 expected to graduate +30 previous graduates who did not earn a residency = 578. Total current residency positions: 528)

Also, these "people" that you so condescendingly speak about are students that have passed the board exam, paid their 200K, fulfilled the requirements of the DPM degree. Yet our profession fails to provide "these people" a residency. These people are the same people that our podiatry school selects knowing fully that students with such GPA and MCAT scores are going to struggle in the program.
You want to give someone with a 2.8 and a 19 mcat score a chance? This is a fantastic idea. I wonder why US MD schools don't give such students a chance. After all, our curriculum is fairly comparable.
The truth is, Our profession lacks a strong applicant pool and the schools that need to fill out their 150-200+ seats will do so in order to remain in business. Its about the money. Cut me the bull $hit. This needs to stop.


Listen, I love this profession, but this is a serious problem and I will talk about this as long as this issue remains a problem.

 

[347932]

KF, Last time I checked the Residency Genesis data, we still had more graduates than residency spots available. Thus this issue is not so "defunct " as you state it to be. (Class of 2012: 548 expected to graduate +30 previous graduates who did not earn a residency = 578. Total current residency positions: 528)

Also, these "people" that you so condescendingly speak about are students that have passed the board exam, paid their 200K, fulfilled the requirements of the DPM degree. Yet our profession fails to provide "these people" a residency. These people are the same people that our podiatry school selects knowing fully that students with such GPA and MCAT scores are going to struggle in the program.
You want to give someone with a 2.8 and a 19 mcat score a chance? This is a fantastic idea. I wonder why US MD schools don't give such students a chance. After all, our curriculum is fairly comparable.
The truth is, Our profession lacks a strong applicant pool and the schools that need to fill out their 150-200+ seats will do so in order to remain in business. Its about the money. Cut me the bull $hit. This needs to stop.


Listen, I love this profession, but this is a serious problem and I will talk about this as long as this issue remains a problem.

Ugh really?

No BS here. If a student is not up to par, THEY need to realize this as well.

It's not condescension. It's REALITY. Have they passed board exams? Is it up to the schools to make sure every student passes the Board exam?? So some slack off who doesn't study because they think they're too good to have to worry about it fails and it's the school's fault? You will see once you get into practice that it's not our profession's responsibility to provide for these people. It's their responsibility to make sure the best is available to them. It IS there. They just have to work for it and be capable. If they won't work for it or are incapable, the onus is on THEM.

Please go back and quote my "defunct" comment and you will see that it had nothing to do with the status of the residency shortage itself. It referred to the suggested "fix" of merely reducing the class size as a means to self correct the problem. As I said, go read the threads.

No one raised a hand when there was an abundance of programs and some had to CLOSE because they had slots unfilled. Guess what? That happened because schools got more selective and didn't accept as many students. Look at that! Now there too many residencies so funding was cut due to vacant position! It's a pendulum as I've stated MANY times in the past.

Do your work. Study hard. Pass your boards. Blow away the residency directors and the residents and you have virtually NOTHING to worry about. Ther are NO guarantees in life. Period. Even for the best and brightest. One day maybe I'll explain myself a bit more in this regard. I've been there and busted my butt to get through it. I've had my successes and my share of failures. I'm not talking from some high place not having gone through it. I'll tell you my whole story one day. I promise.

Why the concern for those that can't quite make it? If they are taking residency spots away from you, I'm sorry to say, it's because of YOU. You can vascilate all you want on these forums. The fact of the matter is that you have to deal with the hand you're dealt. Get out into practice and then join me so we can initiate change. I'm hard at work on it now. What about you?

 

[347932]

The truth is, Our profession lacks a strong applicant pool and the schools that need to fill out their 150-200+ seats will do so in order to remain in business. Its about the money. Cut me the bull $hit. This needs to stop.

Absolutely right. So what?

You have no idea the trickle down effect involved. Do you?

Get on it. There is no better time than RIGHT NOW to get involved and help change it. You love the profession?? Prove it.

Call to arms people. Put up or shut up. We need warm bodies to help with this. OR a WHOLE LOT of money up front. Whatcha got other than a medium to complain that is this forum.

The APMA needs you!!

 

[347932]

...I will talk about this as long as this issue remains a problem.

Talk is cheap, bubba. What are you DOING other than flapping?? Come on!! Let's see what you've got!!

 

[pipetman]

this post was not about blaming schools or what have you. It IS on the students shoulders. So what can the STUDENT do if, for whatever reason, the match and scramble is not successful for them?

Any REAL advice or stories are appreciated.

To sue a school --not an option.

 

[Matthue]

I know that the AAPPM has started a fellowship program for students in the scramble who basically get paired up with a podiatrist who will train them for a year (not counting toward any formal residency training) but more of an opportunity to learn in the private practice setting, billing, and really just a way to stay in the practice of podiatry. I believe it is a paid position as well, however Im not entirely sure of all the details. Im sure their website or a google search might help. (sorry to not be of too much help on the matter)

 

[347932]

I know that the AAPPM has started a fellowship program for students in the scramble who basically get paired up with a podiatrist who will train them for a year (not counting toward any formal residency training) but more of an opportunity to learn in the private practice setting, billing, and really just a way to stay in the practice of podiatry. I believe it is a paid position as well, however Im not entirely sure of all the details. Im sure their website or a google search might help. (sorry to not be of too much help on the matter)

If it is a paid position, I wonder how it is being funded.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

Last time I checked the Residency Genesis data, we still had more graduates than residency spots available.

Even so, residency spots remain unfilled after the scramble every year. Put 2 and 2 together here.

our profession fails to provide "these people" a residency.

As I see it, this entitled attitude is the main problem. Your school provides you with an opportunity, what you do with it is entirely up to you.

 

[dtrack22]

If it is a paid position, I wonder how it is being funded.

The preceptor pays the graduate out of his/her own pocket. Just like they would a medical assisstant/technician.

Even so, residency spots remain unfilled after the scramble every year. Put 2 and 2 together here.

5?

 

[347932]

5?

Do you realize that this means that a program would prefer to risk it's funding and have that position CLOSE than to have a poor resident to deal with for 3 years and risk it's reputation based on ONE resident?

Think about that for a moment or two.

 

[347932]

The preceptor pays the graduate out of his/her own pocket. Just like they would a medical assisstant/technician.

Not exactly. Medical Assistants and Technician don't require the same investment. Are you sure about this?

Even though the Preceptor is only paying this person, what, $30K, there are far more costs involved.

 

[hematosis]

Even so, residency spots remain unfilled after the scramble every year. Put 2 and 2 together here.

Is this true? If so i'd love to see some references.

As I see it, this entitled attitude is the main problem. Your school provides you with an opportunity, what you do with it is entirely up to you.

Relax chuck, I'm doing well. I'm at the top of my class, outscoring my fellow pod students and other osteopaths and dental students. I'm fairly content with my attitude. thank you and come again.

.

 

[dtrack22]

Do you realize that this means that a program would prefer to risk it's funding and have that position CLOSE than to have a poor resident to deal with for 3 years and risk it's reputation based on ONE resident?

Think about that for a moment or two.

Relax. I was joking around with that1guy. He had to repeat the 3rd grade after failing one too many times tables...nevermind. You only need to read 1-2 of my old posts to know where I stand on the whole "residency shortage" issue...

Not exactly. Medical Assistants and Technician don't require the same investment. Are you sure about this?

Even though the Preceptor is only paying this person, what, $30K, there are far more costs involved.

Since I know Dr. Ornstein, and it would take you a whopping 5 seconds to find the answer on the AAPPM website, I would say I am sure about this. I don't know the exact salary, since it depends on each individual preceptor, but in some cases $30k may be a generous estimate.

 

[dtrack22]

Relax chuck, I'm doing well. I'm at the top of my class, outscoring my fellow pod students and other osteopaths and dental students. I'm fairly content with my attitude. thank you and come again.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

Hematosis,

I'm really not sure why you took my comments about the correlation between student attitude and failure to match into a residency so personally. It's clear from your logical, measured response that you don't have anything to worry about.

 

[347932]

Since I know Dr. Ornstein, and it would take you a whopping 5 seconds to find the answer on the AAPPM website, I would say I am sure about this. I don't know the exact salary, since it depends on each individual preceptor, but in some cases $30k may be a generous estimate.

I know Hal as well. It took longer than 5 seconds and I wouldn't bank on this type of thing. When there is no regulation, there is abuse.

Just as a total aside, I love when students/residents name drop as if that's really going to lead any more credibility to their response.

This is a carte blanche for someone with less than honorable intentions to really take advantage of someone. Who pays malpractice? And benefits? It says it's up to the preceptor. This is dangerous imo. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[hematosis]

Since I know Dr. Ornstein, .

Congrats, bro.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

I know Hal as well...

Just as a total aside, I love when students/residents name drop as if that's really going to lead any more credibility to their response.

Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

First, you can find info about the preceptorship program on the AAPPM website.

Second, dtrack22 also happens to have first hand info about the preceptorship program from the man who is largely responsible for designing and implementing it. I'd consider that about as credible as it gets.

More to the pont, he didn't even mention that he knows Ornstein until YOU questioned the accuracy of his info.

 

[dtrack22]

This is a carte blanche for someone with less than honorable intentions to really take advantage of someone. Who pays malpractice? And benefits? It says it's up to the preceptor. This is dangerous imo. Sorry to burst your bubble.

It's ok, there is no bubble to burst. You asked how these positions are "being funded". I answered that they are to be funded by the preceptor just like he/she would pay any other employee. They will be on the practices payroll and it is up to the practice to decide what that salary should be. I never commented on regulation or abuse because frankly I don't care. I was only trying to answer your question (which I did). I'm glad to have your opinion though.

 

[347932]

Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

First, you can find info about the preceptorship program on the AAPPM website.

Second, dtrack22 also happens to have first hand info about the preceptorship program from the man who is largely responsible for designing and implementing it. I'd consider that about as credible as it gets.

More to the pont, he didn't even mention that he knows Ornstein until YOU questioned the accuracy of his info.

Where in my posts do I name drop? Please quote where I try to name drop to add credibility to what I have to say. I'm always one to back off and apologize when I proven wrong. Other than this one as of course, because I do know Hal and it was brought up.

Dtrack knows Hal? Good for him. Just because Hal's organization (which by the way, he is distancing himself from due to much scrutiny from his own colleagues' as to what exactly is going on in the organization), is leading this particular issue, doesn't mean Hal himself organized it and is implementing it. It might be the case, but maybe not. It might be the Board of Directors in the organization. It might be a committee that the Board of Directors appointed in charge of this and Hal never even knew about it. I don't know, do you?

I think now that I've read what is available online about this preceptorship, maybe I know about as much about it as Dtrack does. Thanks for the info Dtrack. Sorry if I need to verify information before believing it. Maybe you should realize that you can't believe everything you read on these forums. Maybe you shouldn't even believe anything I have to say. Believe what you will, but ALWAYS verify it before assessing it.

 

[347932]

...funded by the preceptor just like he/she would pay any other employee. They will be on the practices payroll and it is up to the practice to decide what that salary should be.

Not even close.


I never commented on regulation or abuse because frankly I don't care. I was only trying to answer your question (which I did). I'm glad to have your opinion though.

You seem to be very passionate about this topic for someone who doesn't care.

You're welcome.

 

[dtrack22]

...funded by the preceptor just like he/she would pay any other employee. They will be on the practices payroll and it is up to the practice to decide what that salary should be.

Not even close.

The graduates workload depends on the Preceptor. Some will be nothing more than back office staff with shadowing/learning opportunities. Others will be treated as a non certified medical assistant. Those who have an expanded clinical role will be compensated much like an individual who performed the same duties (any MA malpractice costs included).

I'm not passionate about this program. I just know more about it than you do.

 

[347932]

The graduates workload depends on the Preceptor. Some will be nothing more than back office staff with shadowing/learning opportunities. Others will be treated as a non certified medical assistant. Those who have an expanded clinical role will be compensated much like an individual who performed the same duties (any MA malpractice costs included).

I just know more about it than you do.

How exactly is this going to help someone score a residency the following year?

 

[FiveOVicryl]

I'm not passionate about this program. I just know more about it than you do.

True

I'm always one to back off and apologize when I proven wrong.

False

 

[air bud]

How exactly is this going to help someone score a residency the following year?

Now thats the million dollar question.

 

[dtrack22]

How exactly is this going to help someone score a residency the following year?

I feel the need to put a disclaimer on my explanation. I don't necessarily think this is the best way to go about the whole "didn't get a residency, what can I do in the meantime" discussion. I'm just the messenger in this case. So, for how it is going to help:

1) It can't hurt, and these graduates really have no other option.

2) The fact that they are entering a structured program (there is a "curriculum") is probably a good thing considering, like that1guy and Kidsfeet said earlier, these students are in this position for a reason. Programs would rather go unfilled for a reason. Now this is my opinion, but I would venture to guess that most of the students in this program were unorganized and lacked the self motivation necessary to succeed in 4th year. Both of those traits COULD be corrected with a year under a successful Pod. You know, learn what it really takes to succeed or something like that.

3) Seriously, what else are you going to do?

4) While gaining some real life practice experience (it is minimal, I know), you are allowed (and it is encouraged) that you study for boards, CRIP interviews, etc. and visit nearby residency programs in order to be successful the next go around.

5) They are stretching here but depending on the practice you are in and how involved you are with the AAPPM (assuming you become a member while in this preceptorship) there are networking opportunities that would be harder to get out on your own. Yes, you certainly could do it by yourself but you gotta remember the type of students we are (generally) talking about.

I'm not saying I agree with all of this but I applaud the AAPPM for trying to do something. Nobody else has.

 

[347932]

False

Show me tough guy.

 

[347932]

I feel the need to put a disclaimer on my explanation. I don't necessarily think this is the best way to go about the whole "didn't get a residency, what can I do in the meantime" discussion. I'm just the messenger in this case. So, for how it is going to help:

1) It can't hurt, and these graduates really have no other option.

2) The fact that they are entering a structured program (there is a "curriculum") is probably a good thing considering, like that1guy and Kidsfeet said earlier, these students are in this position for a reason. Programs would rather go unfilled for a reason. Now this is my opinion, but I would venture to guess that most of the students in this program were unorganized and lacked the self motivation necessary to succeed in 4th year. Both of those traits COULD be corrected with a year under a successful Pod. You know, learn what it really takes to succeed or something like that.

3) Seriously, what else are you going to do?

4) While gaining some real life practice experience (it is minimal, I know), you are allowed (and it is encouraged) that you study for boards, CRIP interviews, etc. and visit nearby residency programs in order to be successful the next go around.

5) They are stretching here but depending on the practice you are in and how involved you are with the AAPPM (assuming you become a member while in this preceptorship) there are networking opportunities that would be harder to get out on your own. Yes, you certainly could do it by yourself but you gotta remember the type of students we are (generally) talking about.

I'm not saying I agree with all of this but I applaud the AAPPM for trying to do something. Nobody else has.

I certainly appreciate what you're saying.

My take on it is that people who don't match are bitter. They will serve as a glorified medical assistant and some of the people that run these preceptorships will abuse their positions and cause more bitterness, especially when some of the people serving in a preceptorship will still not match AGAIN. Exposing yourself to a position like this if you're socially inept or are not a strong candidate will hinder your progression.

Again, my take is that it will help very few, but is an easy way to get cheap labor in your office, under the guise that you are "helping". Go ahead, call me a cynic.

 

[GSRaw]

This is more of an observation after reading this thread, but since when is it a "moderators" duty to antagonize and inflame the posters of this forum? You know the majority of them are podiatry students who are just going to recycle what they are being fed in school. Hence despite your best efforts, as valid as they may be, not everyone is going to agree with you (nor should they, some people just learn the hard way.) When you continually taunt these people the tread turns sour and it turns off people who otherwise value your opinion, such as myself.

I'm posting this because with all the bad advice out there regarding podiatry it's disheartening to see the few people we do look to for answers arguing nonsensically just to make their point. Believe me, the smart ones will take your opinion for what it's worth.

Thanks.
GS

 

[347932]

This is more of an observation after reading this thread, but since when is it a "moderators" duty to antagonize and inflame the posters of this forum? You know the majority of them are podiatry students who are just going to recycle what they are being fed in school. Hence despite your best efforts, as valid as they may be, not everyone is going to agree with you (nor should they, some people just learn the hard way.) When you continually taunt these people the tread turns sour and it turns off people who otherwise value your opinion, such as myself.

I'm posting this because with all the bad advice out there regarding podiatry it's disheartening to see the few people we do look to for answers arguing nonsensically just to make their point. Believe me, the smart ones will take your opinion for what it's worth.

Thanks.
GS

Sorry I turned you off.

However, the problem is that some people THINK they know and state falsehoods as fact. Whether you think so or not, my intent is not to taunt, but to bring out the fact that some of the comments made are made by people who haven't a clue and are simply regurgitating bad information. It is vital that they be identified and the other readers made aware when what is stated as fact, isn't.

As I've stated, I am wrong, and when I am, I apologize, adjust or retract my comment and move on. The perfect example of this is when Ankle Breaker called me out about my comments about students getting published. Find that thread and you'll see exactly what I mean. The other example is when I made a false statement about my never having failed a board exam. PADPM called me out on that, and rightfully so. Go find that thread and you'll see how I reacted. If you care to look around at some of the threads you will see this. I don't get worked up when I'm disagreed with, unless there is absolutely zero basis for the argument rendering the disagreement moot. Call me out all you want, but don't get upset when I do the same. Then don't get hot under the collar when your comments are found to be either false or based on lack of experience and knowledge, and I say so.

Just btw, I was asked to be a junior moderator because I participate, don't insult people or call them names and such and also tend to try to sway discussion (or try to) when things get out of hand, particularly when there is mud slinging. Just because I help with moderating (as a volunteer btw), doesn't mean I can't have an opinion and express it in a professional manner. I don't think calling someone a "Hot Shot" is unprofessional or taunting. It's my perception of a behavior and trying to put a name to it without being rude. Being a Moderator is an honor for me and I take it seriously.

 

[Sig Savant]

Sorry I'm late to the party!

I remember trying to defend why decreasing the number of admitted students wouldn't help the shortage...maybe only Kidsfeet and I agree that it is a pendulum, and decreasing the number of incoming students for the Class of 2016 (class now being interviewed) surely won't help the Class of 2012. Also, IF enough spots are created for the Class of 2013/14/15, and we decrease the number of students in 2016, there will be a surplus of residencies and those spots will close.

Next: for the 2012 CRIP, there are 612 applicants in the pool; 70 of those students are from 2011 or earlier. In the Class of 2012, there are 542 students to enter the match. There are 3 qualified students from 2011 that passed all boards but did not match. There are 527 residency spots. Obviously, some students from 2012 will fail part two twice, and thus not be eligible to match. So the main burden on the match this year will come from rollover students from previous matches (2011 and before).

This is where the problem with the preceptorship comes in. We've rolled over graduates from 2011. 2012 is a larger class. 2013 is larger yet. 2014 is huge. If we continue to roll over students, when does it stop? Maybe it will stop in 2015/2016 since we restricted those class sizes? (yes, I am aware that part 2 of this post contradicts part 1).

I agree with Kidsfeet for all of this thread. Students that are doing poorly need to know when to stop. So you took 3 shots to pass biochem, 2 shots to pass boards part 1...Will you be able to pass part 2? Do you really want to do podiatry? At some point, you can't just continue because the school allows you to, you must be introspective and decide if you are capable of completing the degree successfully.

Plus, if moderators didn't contribute, we'd lose one of a handful of DPMs that post here, and I don't want that.

 

[amaprez]

Sorry I'm late to the party!

I remember trying to defend why decreasing the number of admitted students wouldn't help the shortage...maybe only Kidsfeet and I agree that it is a pendulum, and decreasing the number of incoming students for the Class of 2016 (class now being interviewed) surely won't help the Class of 2012. Also, IF enough spots are created for the Class of 2013/14/15, and we decrease the number of students in 2016, there will be a surplus of residencies and those spots will close.

Next: for the 2012 CRIP, there are 612 applicants in the pool; 70 of those students are from 2011 or earlier. In the Class of 2012, there are 542 students to enter the match. There are 3 qualified students from 2011 that passed all boards but did not match. There are 527 residency spots. Obviously, some students from 2012 will fail part two twice, and thus not be eligible to match. So the main burden on the match this year will come from rollover students from previous matches (2011 and before).

This is where the problem with the preceptorship comes in. We've rolled over graduates from 2011. 2012 is a larger class. 2013 is larger yet. 2014 is huge. If we continue to roll over students, when does it stop? Maybe it will stop in 2015/2016 since we restricted those class sizes? (yes, I am aware that part 2 of this post contradicts part 1).

I agree with Kidsfeet for all of this thread. Students that are doing poorly need to know when to stop. So you took 3 shots to pass biochem, 2 shots to pass boards part 1...Will you be able to pass part 2? Do you really want to do podiatry? At some point, you can't just continue because the school allows you to, you must be introspective and decide if you are capable of completing the degree successfully.

Plus, if moderators didn't contribute, we'd lose one of a handful of DPMs that post here, and I don't want that.

It's quite sobering (and depressing) to read when you put it that way 🙁

 

[347932]

It's quite sobering (and depressing) to read when you put it that way 🙁

The TRUTH usually is...