Matched and about to start residency, then found out I wasn't registered in the Selective Service System...

[ceyeclops]

Hi everyone,

I am a current PGY1 finishing up my intern year and getting ready to start my ophthalmology residency this summer. I recently traveled to my program to do onsite onboarding at our affiliated VA medical center only to find out that my onboarding was denied because I was not registered in the Selective Service System. For anyone as ignorant as I was, this is the registry that lives on from the days of the military draft, which all men ages 18 are required to register for in case the president decides to reinstate the draft. There seems to be varying awareness about this, some of my friends remember registering and even receiving a card proving it, some of them have no idea what it is, but somehow got registered at some point. The bottom line about the registry is that you can only register from ages 18-26 and if you do not register, you are ineligible for federal grants, federal loans, and FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT INCLUDING VAs. Most people get registered in high school (I turned 18 after graduating) or while applying for federal loans for college or grad school, which I also never did. Once you pass 26, you're essentially screwed and you need to apply for a waiver by demonstrating that you did not avoid the registry intentionally. The website say, "a non-registrant may not be denied any benefit if he can 'show by a preponderance of evidence' that his failure to register was not knowing and willful. Offer as much evidence supporting your case, and as much detail, as possible." I am currently 30 years old and learned about the registry for the first time last week when my VA onboarding was denied. I have spoken to my local VA as well as the VA case worker at my congresswoman's office for guidance and it seems like this is a very difficult hurdle to overcome.

My question is whether anyone out there has been in my shoes and successfully gotten a waiver for the SSS. If so, what kind of evidence beyond sworn affidavits saying "I didn't know and was never told" did you provide? Did you hire a lawyer who specializes in this?

I've been waiting a long time to train in ophthalmology and right now it's feeling more and more likely that I won't be able to start come this summer. Any guidance or advice people can offer would be very appreciated.

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[Raryn]

Hi everyone,

I am a current PGY1 finishing up my intern year and getting ready to start my ophthalmology residency this summer. I recently traveled to my program to do onsite onboarding at our affiliated VA medical center only to find out that my onboarding was denied because I was not registered in the Selective Service System. For anyone as ignorant as I was, this is the registry that lives on from the days of the military draft, which all men ages 18 are required to register for in case the president decides to reinstate the draft. There seems to be varying awareness about this, some of my friends remember registering and even receiving a card proving it, some of them have no idea what it is, but somehow got registered at some point. The bottom line about the registry is that you can only register from ages 18-26 and if you do not register, you are ineligible for federal grants, federal loans, and FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT INCLUDING VAs. Most people get registered in high school (I turned 18 after graduating) or while applying for federal loans for college or grad school, which I also never did. Once you pass 26, you're essentially screwed and you need to apply for a waiver by demonstrating that you did not avoid the registry intentionally. The website say, "a non-registrant may not be denied any benefit if he can 'show by a preponderance of evidence' that his failure to register was not knowing and willful. Offer as much evidence supporting your case, and as much detail, as possible." I am currently 30 years old and learned about the registry for the first time last week when my VA onboarding was denied. I have spoken to my local VA as well as the VA case worker at my congresswoman's office for guidance and it seems like this is a very difficult hurdle to overcome.

My question is whether anyone out there has been in my shoes and successfully gotten a waiver for the SSS. If so, what kind of evidence beyond sworn affidavits saying "I didn't know and was never told" did you provide? Did you hire a lawyer who specializes in this?

I've been waiting a long time to train in ophthalmology and right now it's feeling more and more likely that I won't be able to start come this summer. Any guidance or advice people can offer would be very appreciated.

It's really odd that you never registered, because it's automatic if you ever signed up for FAFSA. Did you seriously never fill out any financial aid paperwork in undergrad or medical school? Even if you never got any loans, just filling out the application (which is required for most scholarships) would have been sufficient. It's also often done the first time you register to vote, but that's state dependent. I presume you've searched yourself on the verification site ( Selective Service System > Registration > Check a Registration )?

Otherwise, yeah... you're screwed. There's no way to do it once you age out. You can beg and see if you can get a waiver, but I don't know anyone who has been in the same situation to see how likely that is (only other time I heard of this was one of my attendings, who was an immigrant once had his VA privileges suspended because they did an audit and couldn't find his SSS registration. He quite literally had to go fill out some specific form that between the ages of 18 and 25 he was in a village in Burma and nowhere close to being a US citizen or resident yet)

 

[GoSpursGo]

Talk to your program. They're going to be your strongest advocate in this situation.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

We've had a similar situation, and were able to get a waiver. But it's VA specific -- our VA handled the whole thing. So it's possible.

 

[ceyeclops]

We've had a similar situation, and were able to get a waiver. But it's VA specific -- our VA handled the whole thing. So it's possible.

Thank you for this! Currently working on building some evidence showing that I was not actively evading military service (asked to meet with an army health care recruiter while I was applying to medical school). My program has been great but PD and Chair have both never had any experiences with this so everyone is trying to get their bearings.

 

[deleted171991]

Don't be surprised if the VA will not jump through hoops to help you. You committed a felony, even if one that's seldom prosecuted. You had 8 years to register; it's very hard to believe that you never heard of the SSS between ages 18-26, in today's information era.

Not pointing fingers, just giving you a perspective how an official would see the situation.

You probably already know this:

A non-registrant may not be denied any benefit if he can "show by a preponderance of evidence" that his failure to register was not knowing and willful. Offer as much evidence supporting your case, and as much detail, as possible.

So, indeed, your best chance is to produce documentation that you met with an army recruiter. If you're in one of the 40 states that asks about the SSS when registering for a driver's license, it doesn't look good.

Status of State Driver’s License Legislation

As of July 1, 2015, 40 states, 4 territories, and the District of Columbia have enacted driver’s license laws supporting Selective Service registration. They are:

Enacted and Implemented – Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, the Virgin Islands, and the District of Columbia;​

Enacted But Not Yet Implemented – Maine, Maryland, and Puerto Rico.​

 

[Crayola227]

I mean, I'm a woman, but I didn't know about this at all until med school I think, when I was standing in line bored at the Post Office, and was reading the signage, and it was a teeny tiny little notice. It was a shock to me it was a thing. I've talked with a whole host of guys that tell me they don't remember signing up. In any case, ever since then I've always scanned every post office I've been in looking for this notice, because it just seems like the best kept secret.

Guys probably have more perspective on how much the government tried to elicit this info from them and how aware they were of this as young adults.

But no, I don't find it surprising that some people miss the memo.

 

[Keona]

I’m female as well and only know about it from my brothers talking about it. They had everyone register at the same time with forms in high school senior year.

 

[ceyeclops]

Talk to your program. They're going to be your strongest advocate in this situation.

Don't be surprised if the VA will not jump through hoops to help you. You committed a felony, even if one that's seldom prosecuted. You had 8 years to register; it's very hard to believe that you never heard of the SSS between ages 18-26, in today's information era.

Not pointing fingers, just giving you a perspective how an official would see the situation.

You probably already know this:


So, indeed, your best chance is to produce documentation that you met with an army recruiter. If you're in one of the 40 states that asks about the SSS when registering for a driver's license, it doesn't look good.

Thanks for your tough love and for the driver's license registry list. I am in New York, but grew up in the city and so didn't get my license until I was already older than 26. This was also in 2014 before that legislation was enacted.

 

[deleted171991]

Thanks for your tough love and for the driver's license registry list. I am in New York, but grew up in the city and so didn't get my license until I was already older than 26. This was also in 2014 before that legislation was enacted.

Good luck! I can only imagine how hard it is.

 

[ceyeclops]

Don't be surprised if the VA will not jump through hoops to help you. You committed a felony, even if one that's seldom prosecuted. You had 8 years to register; it's very hard to believe that you never heard of the SSS between ages 18-26, in today's information era.

Not pointing fingers, just giving you a perspective how an official would see the situation.

You probably already know this:


So, indeed, your best chance is to produce documentation that you met with an army recruiter. If you're in one of the 40 states that asks about the SSS when registering for a driver's license, it doesn't look good.

I was able to obtain a record of my meeting with the army recruiter while applying to medical school when I was 25. When talking to the staff sgt in the army, he thought that selective service was an automatic enlistment and didn't realize it was possible to not register.

I also obtained a letter from HR worker at my med's schools affiliated VA (different state than future residency) saying that I did onboarding as a student, but my SSS was never run because my application was put on hold as I never did rotations at the VA requiring ID badge access. They sent me a letter endorsing that they have investigated the issue internally, believe that my not registering was not done willfully, and recommending that I be allowed to train at the VA. Having said all that, I have spoken to a lawyer who has handled a number of these cases (never got a successful waiver for a physician) and he made the VA's burden of evidence seem essentially insurmountable.

 

[deleted171991]

The problem may be that the VA pays your program for your work while at the VA. So it's not just about privileges, it's about you not being legally allowed to receive federal funds, not unless the SSS gives you an exemption. Unfortunately, not knowing the law doesn't save you from its consequences. This should be done by the government automatically; voter registration, too.

This may not be such a tragedy, if you don't have any rotations that can be done only at the VA. Otherwise, you'll need help from your PD to somehow do them elsewhere.

 

[Helpful Troll]

Make a list of all the triggers for Selective Service registration that you have learned about when applying for residency including VA rotations. Write a statement or provide documentation that you never encountered a Selective Service registration request/requirement until age xx.
1. High School - You graduated at 17 and your HS does not require/promote registration if under 18
2. Post Office - Never been in one ... or not until after age 26
3. Driver's License facility - Not licensed until after age 26 (what year did NY require registration when licensed?)
4. Federal Loans - Never applied so no requirement or exposure to requirement
...
It's possible and waivers are granted. If the waiver is denied contact your Congressional representatives with the same documentation.

Include the military recruiter visit as a willingness to serve as you indicated.

Provide that statement in your appeal.

 

[ceyeclops]

Make a list of all the triggers for Selective Service registration that you have learned about when applying for residency including VA rotations. Write a statement or provide documentation that you never encountered a Selective Service registration request/requirement until age xx.
1. High School - You graduated at 17 and your HS does not require/promote registration if under 18
2. Post Office - Never been in one ... or not until after age 26
3. Driver's License facility - Not licensed until after age 26 (what year did NY require registration when licensed?)
4. Federal Loans - Never applied so no requirement or exposure to requirement
...
It's possible and waivers are granted. If the waiver is denied contact your Congressional representatives with the same documentation.

Include the military recruiter visit as a willingness to serve as you indicated.

Provide that statement in your appeal.

Thanks, yes I'm preparing an affidavit that essentially walks through the different steps of life I've gone thru since age 18 and the ways in which I somehow missed learning about the registry. Not sure about the post office one- there is definitely not information about it in every post office (I've never noticed it) and I'm not sure how you could hold someone responsible for seeing a small sign on a wall.

I'm curious how you know that waivers are in fact granted? I am in contact with an employment lawyer who has handled >100 successful selective service waiver claims, but is 0/6 when it comes to physicians with the VA. His impression is very negative and seems to say that the federal VA office that reviews the waiver requests has taken a overall position that all men are informed about selective service when they turn 18 and so there is essentially no excuse.

 

[ceyeclops]

The problem may be that the VA pays your program for your work while at the VA. So it's not just about privileges, it's about you not being legally allowed to receive federal funds, not unless the SSS gives you an exemption. Unfortunately, not knowing the law doesn't save you from its consequences. This should be done by the government automatically; voter registration, too.

This may not be such a tragedy, if you don't have any rotations that can be done only at the VA. Otherwise, you'll need help from your PD to somehow do them elsewhere.

My understanding from my program is that it's mostly related to my abilities to fulfill the responsibilities of the residency, but I haven't been involved in some of the internal discussions they've had, so am not sure about the funding issue. For ophthalmology, the VA is a tremendous source of surgical training during residency and makes up 1/4 of my residency - I'm currently trying to get a sense of what the plan would be if I am unable to get a waiver, but continue to get little more from my program than encouragement and hope that my waiver goes through.

 

[ceyeclops]

Great news! I figured out that New York has had legislation since 2003 that every male 18-26 AUTOMATICALLY consents to selective service registration when they get a NY state ID, driver's permit, or license. I got a driver's permit in 2010 when I was 22 and should have been automatically registered. I have been in contact with wonderful people at the DMV office in Albany this week and they will be writing an email to the selective service explaining that I should have been registered and an error must have occurred, which the selective service has said should be enough for me to get a selective service number! This nightmare could all be over by next week!

 

[rokshana]

Great news! I figured out that New York has had legislation since 2003 that every male 18-26 AUTOMATICALLY consents to selective service registration when they get a NY state ID, driver's permit, or license. I got a driver's permit in 2010 when I was 22 and should have been automatically registered. I have been in contact with wonderful people at the DMV office in Albany this week and they will be writing an email to the selective service explaining that I should have been registered and an error must have occurred, which the selective service has said should be enough for me to get a selective service number! This nightmare could all be over by next week!

that is fantastic!

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

This is some insane dystopian 1984 level BS. I think my I signed my registration when one day my dad was like "here, sign this." Obviously the OP isn't a draft dodger and there are totally ways people can fall through this system. I have nothing to offer except to say that I hope this gets resolved.

 

[sunshinefl]

This whole thing scared me enough I just checked that verification website about my husband lol. Luckily it checked out.

Glad it looks like it’s gonna work out for you OP.

 

[ceyeclops]

This whole thing scared me enough I just checked that verification website about my husband lol. Luckily it checked out.

Glad it looks like it’s gonna work out for you OP.

Good! Spread the word and get everyone to check.

 

[ceyeclops]

UPDATE: I OFFICIALLY GOT A SELECTIVE SERVICE NUMBER. Forget about waivers, now this will never be an issue for me in the future. Can’t express how grateful I am to the people at the NYS DMV and Selective Service who got invested in my situation and went above and beyond to help me. Can’t believe this is all over!

 

[gutonc]

UPDATE: I OFFICIALLY GOT A SELECTIVE SERVICE NUMBER. Forget about waivers, now this will never be an issue for me in the future. Can’t express how grateful I am to the people at the NYS DMV and Selective Service who got invested in my situation and went above and beyond to help me. Can’t believe this is all over!

I think the biggest success here is that you got someone at NYS DMV to give a s*** about you in any way, shape or form.

And also congratulations on getting this taken care of. Good luck next month.

 

[ceyeclops]

I think the biggest success here is that you got someone at NYS DMV to give a s*** about you in any way, shape or form.

And also congratulations on getting this taken care of. Good luck next month.

Ain't that the truth. Thanks!