MD DO MERGER 2020 (BAD FOR DO)

[GrantAlexander127]

This merger, to me, seems like an absolute awful idea. What I am basically grasping from this merger is DOs had specialty residencies that only DOs could attend. Now, MDs can attend these same residencies, and on average MDs have better stats than DOs. I am also not making out how the complex vs. USMLE will even factor into all of this. But in the long run DOs are shorted in this merger and MDs will prosper.

Any thoughts? Am I wrong?

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[GypsyHummus]

I would think it is good overall for the healthcare profession, as it allows for a greater pool of resources to be allocated to more sites. It will hopefully get more people into primary care as the number of medical students expand exponentially.

However, yes, it is bad news for DOs who wanted to do a high paying specialty such as Ophthalmology or ENT.

 

[HowYouGetAnts]

From what I understand, MDs cannot simply apply to DO positions. They are required to have the same certifications as a DO, which would be extra training. Meanwhile it sounds like the process is going to be more streamlined for DO candidates. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ERinspired]

There are a lot of existing threads about this. Some good points for both sides and some bad. Look it up to get more detailed descriptions.


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[DrBowtie]

From what I understand, MDs cannot simply apply to DO positions. They are required to have the same certifications as a DO, which would be extra training. Meanwhile it sounds like the process is going to be more streamlined for DO candidates. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That is true if the programs apply for osteopathic distinction. Not many are doing so.

 

[lnguyen1412]

Bad or not, I don't think we gonna see its effects immediately. Properly take a few years after that.
In my opinion, it will open doors for DO to be trained under ACGME same as MD. But There are no clear explanation on how they are going to implement that. I guess we have to wait till 2020 to see!!

 

[kelminak]

There's no clear answer until it happens and there are a hundred other threads about this you can read.

 

[Goro]

Do you really think that DO PDs are just going to lie down, spread their legs, and say "oh, an MD! Take all our slots!"

??????

To all of you offended by earthy methaphors, I'm sorry in advance that you're offended.

This notion that droves of MD grads are just going to waltz into former AOA programs in the competitive specialties is just that, a notion.

Avg MDs have better stats? In what areas that would impress a DO PD?

This merger, to me, seems like an absolute awful idea. What I am basically grasping from this merger is DOs had specialty residencies that only DOs could attend. Now, MDs can attend these same residencies, and on average MDs have better stats than DOs. I am also not making out how the complex vs. USMLE will even factor into all of this. But in the long run DOs are shorted in this merger and MDs will prosper.

Any thoughts? Am I wrong?

 

[neurodjent]

I actually only see the merger as good thing for DO's. Yes, MD's will now be able to apply for formerly DO only residencies. Does that mean that all of those spots will go to MDs? Absolutely not. There will still be a bias towards MDs from DOs and a bias towards DOs from MDs. The way that I see this helping DO's, ESPECIALLY in the more competitive specialties (contrary to popular belief) is as follows. Many of the best and brightest DO students would aim for the most competitive specialties and since they knew that PD's in those ACGME residencies were biased, they stuck with AOA residencies and just went there. These are candidates with great grades and scores. Now that it will all ACGME, those competitive students can broaden there horizons and apply to many more residencies in those competitive residencies. PD's will still be biased but they will now be exposed to DO applicants with great stats that they were never exposed to before because all of those candidates went AOA previously. PD's may think more of DO's after being flooded with DO's with great stats and will be more willing to accept them.

In short, the most competitive of DO applicants have not been applying to ACGME in the ultra competitive specialties therefore, PD's of those programs have never been exposed to the upper echelon of DO students gunning for those specialties. Also with the merger, mostly everyone will be taking the USMLE and I believe that many people will be shocked by how well DO students will do on them.

Let's face it, with the rising admission stats, MDs and DOs will be indistinguishable by entrance stats before we know it.

 

[BeachBlondie]

...spread their legs, and say "...Take all our slots!"

 

[ATPsynthase123]

I actually only see the merger as good thing for DO's. Yes, MD's will now be able to apply for formerly DO only residencies. Does that mean that all of those spots will go to MDs? Absolutely not. There will still be a bias towards MDs from DOs and a bias towards DOs from MDs. The way that I see this helping DO's, ESPECIALLY in the more competitive specialties (contrary to popular belief) is as follows. Many of the best and brightest DO students would aim for the most competitive specialties and since they knew that PD's in those ACGME residencies were biased, they stuck with AOA residencies and just went there. These are candidates with great grades and scores. Now that it will all ACGME, those competitive students can broaden there horizons and apply to many more residencies in those competitive residencies. PD's will still be biased but they will now be exposed to DO applicants with great stats that they were never exposed to before because all of those candidates went AOA previously. PD's may think more of DO's after being flooded with DO's with great stats and will be more willing to accept them.

In short, the most competitive of DO applicants have not been applying to ACGME in the ultra competitive specialties therefore, PD's of those programs have never been exposed to the upper echelon of DO students gunning for those specialties. Also with the merger, mostly everyone will be taking the USMLE and I believe that many people will be shocked by how well DO students will do on them.

Let's face it, with the rising admission stats, MDs and DOs will be indistinguishable by entrance stats before we know it.

My fear isn't that the DOs won't be able to get into a residency, the merger is structured so that ideally residencies will take the most competent candidate regardless of degree. My fear is that this is the first steps in phasing out the DO degree. As someone who will most likely attend an osteopathic school, I worry that a decade from now we will see DO schools either being closed down or converted to an MD program. I remember someone used the example of the DMD and DDS degrees in dentistry. They were almost indistinguishable, so eventually the DMD programs were given the option to close down or become an DDS program.

I don't think it would happen instantly, but the thought that the class I graduate in could be one of the last DO classes is scary. Really I think DOs and MDs have gotten so similar in education and practice that they are almost indistinguishable. Someone could easily make the argument "if the two degrees are so similar, then why do we need the one that usually accepts lower tier students?" Truthfully I do not know that we could offer an acceptable explanation. I think that decades of DOs fighting bias by showing they are no different than MDs and the new groups of DO students who are mostly going DO because they couldn't get into an MD program, will eventually culminate years down the road into the phasing out of DO degrees.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

so eventually the DMD programs were given the option to close down or become an DDS program.

What on earth are you talking about? Don't spout nonsense that isn't true.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

What on earth are you talking about? Don't spout nonsense that isn't true.

Just going off of what I read on SDN. Just did a Google search. Was misinformed. However it is still a good example of two redundant degrees.


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[neurodjent]

My fear isn't that the DOs won't be able to get into a residency, the merger is structured so that ideally residencies will take the most competent candidate regardless of degree. My fear is that this is the first steps in phasing out the DO degree. As someone who will most likely attend an osteopathic school, I worry that a decade from now we will see DO schools either being closed down or converted to an MD program. I remember someone used the example of the DMD and DDS degrees in dentistry. They were almost indistinguishable, so eventually the DMD programs were given the option to close down or become an DDS program.

I don't think it would happen instantly, but the thought that the class I graduate in could be one of the last DO classes is scary. Really I think DOs and MDs have gotten so similar in education and practice that they are almost indistinguishable. Someone could easily make the argument "if the two degrees are so similar, then why do we need the one that usually accepts lower tier students?" Truthfully I do not know that we could offer an acceptable explanation. I think that decades of DOs fighting bias by showing they are no different than MDs and the new groups of DO students who are mostly going DO because they couldn't get into an MD program, will eventually culminate years down the road into the phasing out of DO degrees.


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Why does this matter? After you go through your residency and are a board certified whateverologist, the initials behind your name don't matter. So what if the med school you went to closes down. So what if there is no more DO or MD or they make new initials. It doesn't matter because you will be a board certified specialist already. Why worry about something that no longer needs to be worried about?

This isn't going to happen by the way. DO schools will stay around and so will the initials. Even if they do merge down the road. Who cares? DO's and MDs are the same thing anyways. If we never had any initials at all, no one would know the difference. No one knows the difference anyways. Just go to med school. Become a doctor. Practice Medicine. That's it.

 

[hawthorn9797]

Do you really think that DO PDs are just going to lie down, spread their legs, and say "oh, an MD! Take all our slots!"

??????

To all of you offended by earthy methaphors, I'm sorry in advance that you're offended.

This notion that droves of MD grads are just going to waltz into former AOA programs in the competitive specialties is just that, a notion.

Avg MDs have better stats? In what areas that would impress a DO PD?

^ what a guy lol, I sincerely hope I get interviewed by you and somehow know it is you.

 

[Peach Newport]

Why does this matter? After you go through your residency and are a board certified whateverologist, the initials behind your name don't matter. So what if the med school you went to closes down. So what if there is no more DO or MD or they make new initials. It doesn't matter because you will be a board certified specialist already. Why worry about something that no longer needs to be worried about?

This isn't going to happen by the way. DO schools will stay around and so will the initials. Even if they do merge down the road. Who cares? DO's and MDs are the same thing anyways. If we never had any initials at all, no one would know the difference. No one knows the difference anyways. Just go to med school. Become a doctor. Practice Medicine. That's it.

I know no one asked for my opinion, but I'm going to give it anyway.

I think that if they were ever seriously thinking of "phasing out" the DO degree, the best option would be to confer a dual D.O., M.D. Degree, like MSUCOM tried to do. Keep the distinction where it's warranted, and lose it where it's not.

In my opinion (and it may be wrong), calling a DO degree a dual degree is the most accurate way of putting it. You're a medical doctor, but NOT a doctor of medicine? How does that make sense to us, or patients? That's what a DO degree is: an MD degree plus OMM.

Hell, even A.T. Still himself was a D.O., M.D.

 

[neurodjent]

I know no one asked for my opinion, but I'm going to give it anyway.

I think that if they were ever seriously thinking of "phasing out" the DO degree, the best option would be to confer a dual D.O., M.D. Degree, like MSUCOM tried to do. Keep the distinction where it's warranted, and lose it where it's not.

In my opinion (and it may be wrong), calling a DO degree a dual degree is the most accurate way of putting it. You're a medical doctor, but NOT a doctor of medicine? How does that make sense to us, or patients? That's what a DO degree is: an MD degree plus OMM.

Hell, even A.T. Still himself was a D.O., M.D.

I agree completely. Both MDs and DOs are doctors, they learn the same thing. OMM could be an elective course or rotation in med school and a residency. I want to go to DO school because I want to learn OMM but I wouldn't care if that made me a DO or an MD+OMM. Assigning different labels to the same thing just creates artificial segregation and an in-group, out-group dynamic. If they eliminated the different titles and taught OMM at every medical school as an elective, or rotation, then everyone would be happy and people would still learn OMM and go into primary care.

 

[Mad Jack]

My fear isn't that the DOs won't be able to get into a residency, the merger is structured so that ideally residencies will take the most competent candidate regardless of degree. My fear is that this is the first steps in phasing out the DO degree. As someone who will most likely attend an osteopathic school, I worry that a decade from now we will see DO schools either being closed down or converted to an MD program. I remember someone used the example of the DMD and DDS degrees in dentistry. They were almost indistinguishable, so eventually the DMD programs were given the option to close down or become an DDS program.

I don't think it would happen instantly, but the thought that the class I graduate in could be one of the last DO classes is scary. Really I think DOs and MDs have gotten so similar in education and practice that they are almost indistinguishable. Someone could easily make the argument "if the two degrees are so similar, then why do we need the one that usually accepts lower tier students?" Truthfully I do not know that we could offer an acceptable explanation. I think that decades of DOs fighting bias by showing they are no different than MDs and the new groups of DO students who are mostly going DO because they couldn't get into an MD program, will eventually culminate years down the road into the phasing out of DO degrees.


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Lol, the DMD/DDS thing is merely a matter of nomenclature that was a side effect of Harvard only offering degrees with Latin nomenclature. DDS in Latin has the initials CDD, which just looked silly, and the only close thing they could match as DDS was wrong, so they settled on a phrase that ended up as DMD. Read up on it, they're the exact same degree.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Lol, the DMD/DDS thing is merely a matter of nomenclature that was a side effect of Harvard only offering degrees with Latin nomenclature. DDS in Latin has the initials CDD, which just looked silly, and the only close thing they could match as DDS was wrong, so they settled on a phrase that ended up as DMD. Read up on it, they're the exact same degree.

I did lol someone pointed that out to me after the fact. My post was bad and I feel bad


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[Mad Jack]

I did lol someone pointed that out to me after the fact. My post was bad and I feel bad


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[Dustbowl12]

Merger is great for DO profession

 

[Dr. Death]

This merger, to me, seems like an absolute awful idea. What I am basically grasping from this merger is DOs had specialty residencies that only DOs could attend. Now, MDs can attend these same residencies, and on average MDs have better stats than DOs. I am also not making out how the complex vs. USMLE will even factor into all of this. But in the long run DOs are shorted in this merger and MDs will prosper.

Any thoughts? Am I wrong?

MDs do have better board scores than DO students, but this merger is going to help improve and unify the GME. DO students have been cowering behind the AOA programs for too long. It's time to put up or shut up. If you are equivalent to MDs as you claim, then you should be able to compete with them for residency spots. Spoiler alert, not many DO students are on par with their MD counterparts.

In the long run this can be nothing but good for DOs. After 2023 or whatever, employers will know that the DO candidates will have the same residency training as MD candidates and will hopefully open more doors for jobs. Ideally somewhere down the line LCME will overtake AOA, close half the DO schools (by then there should be ~100) and cut down class sizes at the others and unify medical education as a whole.

I would think it is good overall for the healthcare profession, as it allows for a greater pool of resources to be allocated to more sites. It will hopefully get more people into primary care as the number of medical students expand exponentially.

However, yes, it is bad news for DOs who wanted to do a high paying specialty such as Ophthalmology or ENT.

Where are you getting this idea?

Bad or not, I don't think we gonna see its effects immediately. Properly take a few years after that.
In my opinion, it will open doors for DO to be trained under ACGME same as MD. But There are no clear explanation on how they are going to implement that. I guess we have to wait till 2020 to see!!

We are going to see effects immediately. By 2020 at the latest all the former AOA programs that didn't qualify will be closed and there will be 1 match. The doors were already opened for DOs to be trained the same as MDs, but most didn't choose it.


PSA Premeds educate yourselves before you throw out unfounded speculation

 

[CCmetal94]

Personally, I'll be happy to go through a unified match and get ACGME trained. The idea of forgoing one match for another sounded kind of scary/risky to me.

MDs do have better board scores than DO students, but this merger is going to help improve and unify the GME. DO students have been cowering behind the AOA programs for too long. It's time to put up or shut up. If you are equivalent to MDs as you claim, then you should be able to compete with them for residency spots. Spoiler alert, not many DO students are on par with their MD counterparts.

In the long run this can be nothing but good for DOs. After 2023 or whatever, employers will know that the DO candidates will have the same residency training as MD candidates and will hopefully open more doors for jobs. Ideally somewhere down the line LCME will overtake AOA, close half the DO schools (by then there should be ~100) and cut down class sizes at the others and unify medical education as a whole.



Where are you getting this idea?



We are going to see effects immediately. By 2020 at the latest all the former AOA programs that didn't qualify will be closed and there will be 1 match. The doors were already opened for DOs to be trained the same as MDs, but most didn't choose it.


PSA Premeds educate yourselves before you throw out unfounded speculation

Why do you say "doors were already opened for DOs to be trained the same as MDs, but most didn't choose it"? Both my in state DO schools have 65%+ match ACGME. There are a lot of DO schools (apart from the newer ones) have 50%+ that go on to match ACGME as well.

 

[Dr. Death]

I actually only see the merger as good thing for DO's. Yes, MD's will now be able to apply for formerly DO only residencies. Does that mean that all of those spots will go to MDs? Absolutely not. There will still be a bias towards MDs from DOs and a bias towards DOs from MDs. The way that I see this helping DO's, ESPECIALLY in the more competitive specialties (contrary to popular belief) is as follows. Many of the best and brightest DO students would aim for the most competitive specialties and since they knew that PD's in those ACGME residencies were biased, they stuck with AOA residencies and just went there. These are candidates with great grades and scores. Now that it will all ACGME, those competitive students can broaden there horizons and apply to many more residencies in those competitive residencies. PD's will still be biased but they will now be exposed to DO applicants with great stats that they were never exposed to before because all of those candidates went AOA previously. PD's may think more of DO's after being flooded with DO's with great stats and will be more willing to accept them.

In short, the most competitive of DO applicants have not been applying to ACGME in the ultra competitive specialties therefore, PD's of those programs have never been exposed to the upper echelon of DO students gunning for those specialties. Also with the merger, mostly everyone will be taking the USMLE and I believe that many people will be shocked by how well DO students will do on them.

Let's face it, with the rising admission stats, MDs and DOs will be indistinguishable by entrance stats before we know it.

Your idea about PD bias going away may happen, but if it does it will be many years down the line, long after we match, complete residencies and fellowships and after any of us care anymore.

This isn't true. Average MCAT for MD students was 31 2 years ago. There are DO students accepting people sub-500, DO GPA averages are lower than MD including grade replacement. Once again if this ever happens (unlikely) it won't be for many many years.

 

[Dr. Death]

Personally, I'll be happy to go through a unified match and get ACGME trained. The idea of forgoing one match for another sounded kind of scary/risky to me.



Why do you say "doors were already opened for DOs to be trained the same as MDs, but most didn't choose it"? Both my in state DO schools have 65%+ match ACGME. There are a lot of DO schools (apart from the newer ones) have 50%+ that go on to match ACGME as well.

Agree, the merger is the best thing to happen to DOs in a long time in my opinion

More DO students go to AOA residencies than ACGME

 

[CCmetal94]

Agree, the merger is the best thing to happen to DOs in a long time in my opinion

More DO students go to AOA residencies than ACGME

That is very school dependent. Like I said, both my in state DO schools have 65%+ of their students match ACMGE and many schools send 50%+. It really depends on the geography (Midwest ACGME programs tend to be very open to taking DO grads) and how new the school is.

 

[neurodjent]

Your idea about PD bias going away may happen, but if it does it will be many years down the line, long after we match, complete residencies and fellowships and after any of us care anymore.

This isn't true. Average MCAT for MD students was 31 2 years ago. There are DO students accepting people sub-500, DO GPA averages are lower than MD including grade replacement. Once again if this ever happens (unlikely) it won't be for many many years.

I agree that in order to eliminate the PD bias it will take some time. I don't expect anything to change overnight. I was talking about in the future, when everyone is going to the same residencies and everyone is on a level playing field, some of that bias may dissipate because the new PDs coming in will have most likely gone to a residency with DO colleagues.

I know that there is still a disparity in entrance exams between MD schools and DO schools, however there are a few things to say about that. Firstly, Some of the top DO schools have better incoming stats than some state MD schools. Secondly, some DO schools have MCAT averages 30+ and many more have averages at 29+. The new DO schools are the schools that are bringing down the stats and I think that the rapid, seemingly uncontrollable expansion of DO schools should stop. I like the idea of grade replacement for everyone but it definitely does give the impression that the GPA averages are higher. Overall, DO schools have lower stats but, they're rising quickly and could very well be close to MD soon.

 

[Dr. Death]

I agree that in order to eliminate the PD bias it will take some time. I don't expect anything to change overnight. I was talking about in the future, when everyone is going to the same residencies and everyone is on a level playing field, some of that bias may dissipate because the new PDs coming in will have most likely gone to a residency with DO colleagues.

I know that there is still a disparity in entrance exams between MD schools and DO schools, however there are a few things to say about that. Firstly, Some of the top DO schools have better incoming stats than some state MD schools. Secondly, some DO schools have MCAT averages 30+ and many more have averages at 29+. The new DO schools are the schools that are bringing down the stats and I think that the rapid, seemingly uncontrollable expansion of DO schools should stop. I like the idea of grade replacement for everyone but it definitely does give the impression that the GPA averages are higher. Overall, DO schools have lower stats but, they're rising quickly and could very well be close to MD soon.

The problem is that MD averages are rising also. While there are some schools that have higher MCAT averages, there are certainly less than 5 out of the 35-40 DO schools. There is no end in sight for DO school expansion, which will continue to drag down averages as more mediocre students gain admittance into schools.

 

[CCmetal94]

The problem is that MD averages are rising also. While there are some schools that have higher MCAT averages, there are certainly less than 5 out of the 35-40 DO schools. There is no end in sight for DO school expansion, which will continue to drag down averages as more mediocre students gain admittance into schools.

DO averages are lower than MD, but they are not being dragged down by new schools. Look at stats for the past decade for both MD and DO. Both are rising, but DO stats are rising double the rate of DO even with expansions. New schools take lower stats initially, but there are some new schools with 500mcat and 3.2 gpa cutoffs (CUSOM, BCOM for example). I don't see how you can argue that MORE mediocre students are gaining entrance when the opposite is true. Sub 25 mcats are pretty rare for DO schools these days, even knew ones.

 

[neurodjent]

The problem is that MD averages are rising also. While there are some schools that have higher MCAT averages, there are certainly less than 5 out of the 35-40 DO schools. There is no end in sight for DO school expansion, which will continue to drag down averages as more mediocre students gain admittance into schools.

That is probably true but I think it is rising at a much slower rate. I mean the averages are already up in the high 80th percentiles. It can't go much higher. I also believe that when the economy fully rebounds the averages will drop just due to less people taking the test therefore less people getting such high numbers. But thats another issue. You are certainly right about the amount of DO schools with higher MCAT averages but there are many more climbing very quickly. I also believe that many DO schools take lower MCAT scores because they realize that you don't have to be a super genius to practice in many specilaties. I think MD schools are stat-obsessed and missing the bigger picture. I don't think the differences in MCAT scores reflect a difference in the ability to be a good doctor. Above some score (probably 28ish), ability will no longer be reflected in someones MCAT score.

 

[IslandStyle808]

MDs do have better board scores than DO students, but this merger is going to help improve and unify the GME. DO students have been cowering behind the AOA programs for too long. It's time to put up or shut up. If you are equivalent to MDs as you claim, then you should be able to compete with them for residency spots. Spoiler alert, not many DO students are on par with their MD counterparts.

Unfortunately that doesn't tell the whole story, only a part of it. You could have equivalent stats as your MD counter part and still do worse in the ACGME match. The opthalmology and urology matches happen before the AOA match. Based on the responses on here, they seem to have a harder time landing interviews than there MD counter parts even with similar applications. So you will see some students put all their energy into ultra competitive AOA residencies than in the ACGME (when only 30% of PDs rank/interview DOs for fields like derm, can you really blame them for going all AOA?). I understand you know this, but those DO filters play a bigger role than the stats of the students themselves.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Do you really think that DO PDs are just going to lie down, spread their legs, and say "oh, an MD! Take all our slots!"

??????

To all of you offended by earthy methaphors, I'm sorry in advance that you're offended.

This notion that droves of MD grads are just going to waltz into former AOA programs in the competitive specialties is just that, a notion.

Avg MDs have better stats? In what areas that would impress a DO PD?

If the PDs had a vested interest in protecting DOs...they would be applying for osteopathic distinction.

I get it, you're a DO adcom. But you used to readily admit you don't know much about the residency process, and now all you do is spout the party line...

 

[Goro]

The real truth is nobody knows how this process is going to shake out, but I do know how my DO colleagues think....even the "assimilated ones" as my "true believer" colleagues call them.

But so far a lot of the merger threads are really "the sky is falling!"

If the PDs had a vested interest in protecting DOs...they would be applying for osteopathic distinction.

I get it, you're a DO adcom. But you used to readily admit you don't know much about the residency process, and now all you do is spout the party line...

 

[Clarus]

To be honest, if this gives DO's an advantage, I'm all about it. It's about time DO's get recognition in the lime-light like MDs do. It's only fair.

 

[Dr. Death]

To be honest, if this gives DO's an advantage, I'm all about it. It's about time DO's get recognition in the lime-light like MDs do. It's only fair.

This is definitely the most important thing

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

To be honest, if this gives DO's an advantage, I'm all about it. It's about time DO's get recognition in the lime-light like MDs do. It's only fair.

It's thoughts like this that hold DOs back... that insinuate we are inferior to MDs someway. We are NOT. We are both physicians. Just like there are crappy MD schools and programs, there are ****ty DO programs and schools as well.

There is no "fabulous lime light" and glory and fame with the MD initials...

There is no advantage here. Our seats are open to more students. The folks who work hard and do well will get seats. ..MD and DO alike.

The ones who barely pass won't get jack****...the way it has always been and it should be.

 

[Clarus]

It's thoughts like this that hold DOs back... that insinuate we are inferior to MDs someway. We are NOT. We are both physicians. Just like there are crappy MD schools and programs, there are ****ty DO programs and schools as well.

There is no "fabulous lime light" and glory and fame with the MD initials...

There is no advantage here. Our seats are open to more students. The folks who work hard and do well will get seats. ..MD and DO alike.

The ones who barely pass won't get jack****...the way it has always been and it should be.

I'm not trying to create a divide but to be real, the general public STILL doesn't know who or what a DO is. That's why its up to US to make a difference and really put ourselves out there, especially if your going for DO, which I am. Trust me, in my eyes, DOs and MDs are the same.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I'm not trying to create a divide but to be real, the general public STILL doesn't know who or what a DO is. That's why its up to US to make a difference and really put ourselves out there, especially if your going for DO, which I am. Trust me, in my eyes, DOs and MDs are the same.

Because the general public does not give a ****.

In the hospital, every shmuck with a white coat on is considered a doctor to patients.

IF anything, they need to get rid of the DO title and I pray we can just pay a fee to convert our initials to MD like they used to back in the day.

OMM is the only thing we waste our time on.... which will be open to MDs as well after the merger. So boom.. no more ****ing difference between DOs and MDs besides that "treat the whole person" approach.... which is some bull you say to get into school in the first place.

lol

 

[zero0]

If the PDs had a vested interest in protecting DOs...they would be applying for osteopathic distinction.

I get it, you're a DO adcom. But you used to readily admit you don't know much about the residency process, and now all you do is spout the party line...

Does anyone have a tally on how many programs are even applying for osteopathic distinction? I know it's still early but from what I can tell almost none of them are, which leaves those residencies primed for the taking by MDs.

And let's not pretend, all most programs care about is getting the best residents possible. DO loyalty is an ideal that's out of touch with reality.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Does anyone have a tally on how many programs are even applying for osteopathic distinction? I know it's still early but from what I can tell almost none of them are, which leaves those residencies primed for the taking by MDs.

And let's not pretend, all most programs care about is getting the best residents possible. DO loyalty is an ideal that's out of touch with reality.

Just focus on being the best residency applicant you can be, and there will be little to no issues for most students. You don't have to be top of your class, just do well in classes and on your boards and you'll be fine.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Dr. Death]

Does anyone have a tally on how many programs are even applying for osteopathic distinction? I know it's still early but from what I can tell almost none of them are, which leaves those residencies primed for the taking by MDs.

And let's not pretend, all most programs care about is getting the best residents possible. DO loyalty is an ideal that's out of touch with reality.

The last number I heard was around 3%

 

[zero0]

The last number I heard was around 3%

ffs are any of them at least derm or ortho or something? If MDs are going to take our good residencies they should at least be forced to endure a summer of OMM

 

[Goro]

I have to thank my young colleague yet again for pointing me in the direction of something that flew completely over my head. As usual, he did it with the bluntness of a surgeon.

The absolute worst-case scenario coming out of this would be:
DO:
Primary Care
Psychiatry
EM
Gas

MD:
Everything else

The world will not end. You still get to be doctors.

If the PDs had a vested interest in protecting DOs...they would be applying for osteopathic distinction.

I get it, you're a DO adcom. But you used to readily admit you don't know much about the residency process, and now all you do is spout the party line...

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

My man Goro coming through again in the clutch.

I ****ing love you Goro!

Yeah... all you pre-meds better listen up.

The game is changing.

You are better off going PA, or RN --> CRNA rather than doing medicine if you don't wanna do any of those specialties.

No liability, no call, and 40 hour workweeks?

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

ffs are any of them at least derm or ortho or something? If MDs are going to take our good residencies they should at least be forced to endure a summer of OMM

LOLZ that was funny.

But I respectfully disagree.

They worked hard and got into a MD program.

We should have worked harder in undergrad.

Simple.

I look at OMM as a necessary evil to be able to atleast go to med school in the US.

Could be worse...

We could be in the Caribbean.

If I have to touch my sweaty classmates and act like I'm performing some mystical treatment, I'll do it with a smile as long as I can stay in the states and atleast know I have a FULL chance of matching into SOMETHING.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

LOLZ that was funny.

But I respectfully disagree.

They worked hard and got into a MD program.

We should have worked harder in undergrad.

Simple.

I look at OMM as a necessary evil to be able to atleast go to med school in the US.

Could be worse...

We could be in the Caribbean.

If I have to touch my sweaty classmates and act like I'm performing some mystical treatment, I'll do it with a smile as long as I can stay in the states and atleast know I have a FULL chance of matching into SOMETHING.

Totally agree with you. I only take exception with the bolded. True for many, but not everyone going DO could've just worked harder in undergrad.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Totally agree with you. I only take exception with the bolded. True for many, but not everyone going DO could've just worked harder in undergrad.

I agree with you there. I often forget that DO is a great option for many non-trad folks as well. No matter how great their records must be, MD is often a crapshoot for those guys as well.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I agree with you there. I often forget that DO is a great option for many non-trad folks as well. No matter how great their records must be, MD is often a crapshoot for those guys as well.

I'm a non-trad that will be applying to DO and a few MDs (am required to apply to USUHS, so might as well throw in a few others). I'm under no illusions that I will have tons of success in the MD world (though everyone going through this program has gotten into USUHS, which honestly is my first choice--hooyah officer pay). I have no problem going DO and don't view it as a backup. I just want to go to med school.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I'm a non-trad that will be applying to DO and a few MDs (am required to apply to USUHS, so might as well throw in a few others). I'm under no illusions that I will have tons of success in the MD world (though everyone going through this program has gotten into USUHS, which honestly is my first choice--hooyah officer pay). I have no problem going DO and don't view it as a backup. I just want to go to med school.

Awesome! Definitely apply to both and good luck to you my man. If you can swing for MD please certainly do so. I'm rooting for ya.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Awesome! Definitely apply to both and good luck to you my man. If you can swing for MD please certainly do so. I'm rooting for ya.

Thanks. I definitely am planning on throwing some out there. Planning on applying very wisely using LizzyM, while hoping the vet service gives a boost. Gotta get selected for the program first though lol. Leave it to the Navy to have a deadline in November and release the results in March.