MD: Financially worthwhile?

[parto123]

I know most in medical school obviously have a strong interest in the practice of medicine, otherwise it would seem quite difficult to make it through school and residencies. My question is, why is it that most of the people I meet in med school or applying to med school think there will be some type of financial payoff at the end? Even those totally aware how medicine is no longer as lucrative as it used to be still don’t seem to comprehend exactly how financially non-worthwhile it really is. A 24 year second year analyst at a bank brings in almost 200K. A mid level associate at a ny law firm pulls in almost 300k. Partners, Traders and Ibankers makes millions. All this and the average MD, years after graduating is only making about 200K a year, if that.

In fact, it seems as if being an accountant is more financially worthwhile than medicine:

Becoming an accountant right after college gives you about 55K a year (+small bonus), with a 3-5K increase per year, with some larger increases along with way. By the time is doctor is done with residency (which is, as I understand, about 10+ years after the start of med school), the accountant will have no debt, most likely be making low 6 figures, and would have earned about 700K during these 10+ years. Meanwhile the MD will have at least 200K+ in debt and would have make only about 160K at this point.

Are my assumptions about medical salaries incorrect or do MDs simply not care at all about being financially rewarded compared to other professions?

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[drizzt3117]

Most people becoming doctors aren't doing it for the money, as the earning potential may be higher in other fields. That's not to say that they don't care about the relative income, etc, but that it's not their primary motivation. I resigned from a consulting position that paid well over 200k to do postbac...

 

[deleted36260]

There are plenty of professions that are better financial sense than being a doctor.

Truth is, you can be in any field and if you:

- Have a great undergrad GPA
- Spent time doing EC's and research
- Took out a $150,000+ in loans for investing into said career moves
- Got a 4 year advanced degree/training
- Worked 80+ hour weeks for crap pay while working your way up the ladder
- Smiled and nodded the whole time

The only difference in medicine is that the path is defined and laid out for you by others. Ridiculous amounts of hard work can net you a high income in almost any field.
Do what you want to do, then you'll be the best at THAT. Then the money will come.

I guess we'll add to the anecdotal evidence:

My friend is a mechanical engineer. 4 year degree from the same no name Univeristy I go to. He currently makes $120,000 at 29 years old. He long ago paid off his whopping $30,000 in school debt.

Sure, he's not making the $150,000 average that docs make, but he's got no loans, and almost 10 years of positive earning already under his belt, instead of interest accumulating.

He will be be moved damn close to that $150,000 number within 5 years.

 

[alltheflavors]

A 24 year second year analyst at a bank brings in almost 200K.

A significant number of my family members work in IB/PE and I can confidently say that this number is off. This year, the top 1%-2% 2nd year analysts maxed out at 170K-180K. I don't know about kids in S&T or hedgies. Plus, this last year was an aberration...not even the '90s boom kids got paid this much. The upcoming years will be like 2002-2003 when the bonuses were in 20K-40K range. Now calculate out that 90 hr/workweek average over 90K pay total (that's if you are not fired yet, which you might very well might be). And don't forget all those expenses of living in NYC...like living in a hole-in-the-wall and paying a minimum of 1K/month for it.

But your original point stands...MD is not attractive if your goal is only dollar signs.

 

[parto123]

Do what you want to do, then you'll be the best at THAT. Then the money will come.

But this is the problem. In Medicine you work longer and harder to finish your studies than virtually all other professions, and at the end the money really doesnt come.

There are plenty of passions and interest i have, but i really cant see myself pursuing them professionally because there is really no financial payoff. This isn’t to say that ill do something I hate, just, like 99.9% of people, its doubtful I will do something I truly like.

 

[Law2Doc]

Are my assumptions about medical salaries incorrect or do MDs simply not care at all about being financially rewarded compared to other professions?

Although some of the numbers you toss around are not "average" numbers, I think you are not incorrect that when you factor in things like the time value of money during the years of school, training, medicine is probably not the maximum earnings a top college student could get. But medicine is too hard and long a road to do just for perks like salary -- you only want to do this if you are genuinely interested/excited to practice medicine.

 

[punkindrublic]

More worthwhile than this thread and the 1000's like it.

 

[armybound]

Anyone who goes into medicine solely for money is a ***** anyway. It's sure not worth the effort just to make the money.

But if you're passionate about practicing, as long as you come out the other end able to pay off your debt and make a living, I'd say it's worth it.

 

[parto123]

A significant number of my family members work in IB/PE and I can confidently say that this number is off. This year, the top 1%-2% 2nd year analysts maxed out at 170K-180K. I don't know about kids in S&T or hedgies. Plus, this last year was an aberration...not even the '90s boom kids got paid this much. The upcoming years will be like 2002-2003 when the bonuses were in 20K-40K range. Now calculate out that 90 hr/workweek average over 90K pay total (that's if you are not fired yet, which you might very well might be). And don't forget all those expenses of living in NYC...like living in a hole-in-the-wall and paying a minimum of 1K/month for it.

But your original point stands...MD is not attractive if your goal is only dollar signs.

My point is that MD doesnt seem attractive if dollar signs are ANY part of your goals.

Also, the second year analyst pay may be overstated, but so was the avg doctor salary I listed.

 

[Auron]

So out of curiosity, what careers do people who are solely motivated by money pursue that provide the same amount of job security, salary and prestige as that of a physician?

 

[physiclas87]

I know most in medical school obviously have a strong interest in the practice of medicine, otherwise it would seem quite difficult to make it through school and residencies. My question is, why is it that most of the people I meet in med school or applying to med school think there will be some type of financial payoff at the end? Even those totally aware how medicine is no longer as lucrative as it used to be still don’t seem to comprehend exactly how financially non-worthwhile it really is. A 24 year second year analyst at a bank brings in almost 200K. A mid level associate at a ny law firm pulls in almost 300k. Partners, Traders and Ibankers makes millions. All this and the average MD, years after graduating is only making about 200K a year, if that.

In fact, it seems as if being an accountant is more financially worthwhile than medicine:

Becoming an accountant right after college gives you about 55K a year (+small bonus), with a 3-5K increase per year, with some larger increases along with way. By the time is doctor is done with residency (which is, as I understand, about 10+ years after the start of med school), the accountant will have no debt, most likely be making low 6 figures, and would have earned about 700K during these 10+ years. Meanwhile the MD will have at least 200K+ in debt and would have make only about 160K at this point.

Are my assumptions about medical salaries incorrect or do MDs simply not care at all about being financially rewarded compared to other professions?

Basically your argument and the examples you give are ****. There are a million and one threads that expose flaws in your way of thinking. Hearsay means nothing and is worthless in the real world.

Aside from this, sometimes I wonder if the payoff in the end (yes, doctors are actually payed more on average than lawyers, ibankers...etc) is worth all the years you put into it. I can't imagine being my friend who got accepted to Tufts, and only Tufts, sticking with medicine after seeing what the first year would cost him and the road ahead.

medicine is my number one career choice and the best fit for me overall, but if I get into only half-decent schools and have to pay $200,000 for it (which won't happen) I wouldn't go into medicine. I have more interests and there are many other lucrative and satisfying careers out there.

 

[parto123]

So out of curiosity, what careers do people who are solely motivated by money pursue that provide the same amount of job security, salary and prestige as that of a physician?

Well, prestige is tough to define (for some it means money for other it means brand names like Harvard and yale), but if money and job security is your thing, like i said, accountant will be pretty similar to medicine, after taking into account opportunity cost, head start and loans.

 

[deleted103730]

well as a doctor you CAN make the big bucks, just not as easily. you'd have to sacrifice a lot if you want to make a lot: family, leisure time, etc. after my father retired from orthopaedic surgery, a colleague of his was getting burnt out with his enormous patient load, never had time for his family, and so on. so the guy hired my father just to see patients in the office while the other guy did all the surgeries. he paid my father 200k a year JUST to see patients, so obviously this guy was rolling in the dough after all his hard work and sacrifices if he can just spend 200k to make his life easier.

 

[etf]

um, with an MD after your name you can marry rich.

 

[parto123]

Basically your argument and the examples you give are ****. There are a million and one threads that expose flaws in your way of thinking. Hearsay means nothing and is worthless in the real world.

Aside from this, sometimes I wonder if the payoff in the end (yes, doctors are actually payed more on average than lawyers, ibankers...etc) is worth all the years you put into it. I can't imagine being my friend who got accepted to Tufts, and only Tufts, sticking with medicine after seeing what the first year would cost him and the road ahead.

medicine is my number one career choice and the best fit for me overall, but if I get into only half-decent schools and have to pay $200,000 for it (which won't happen) I wouldn't go into medicine. I have more interests and there are many other lucrative and satisfying careers out there.

1. why dont you point out these flaws and let me respond. My figures are ball park figures, you can adjust them if you would like. Either way, with opportunity cost, loans and head start, medicine will end up behind either way you put it.

2. MDs may make more an avg than lawyers (not than bankers, btw), but the point is that most who get into med school would probably not be "avg lawyers" from avg in avg schools. 1st year salary for associate in NY is 160K+30K bonus (this is 100% accurate). And even if all this wasnt the case, like i said earlier, you have to take into account opportunity cost and loans etc.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I know most in medical school obviously have a strong interest in the practice of medicine, otherwise it would seem quite difficult to make it through school and residencies. My question is, why is it that most of the people I meet in med school or applying to med school think there will be some type of financial payoff at the end? Even those totally aware how medicine is no longer as lucrative as it used to be still don’t seem to comprehend exactly how financially non-worthwhile it really is. A 24 year second year analyst at a bank brings in almost 200K. A mid level associate at a ny law firm pulls in almost 300k. Partners, Traders and Ibankers makes millions. All this and the average MD, years after graduating is only making about 200K a year, if that.

In fact, it seems as if being an accountant is more financially worthwhile than medicine:

Becoming an accountant right after college gives you about 55K a year (+small bonus), with a 3-5K increase per year, with some larger increases along with way. By the time is doctor is done with residency (which is, as I understand, about 10+ years after the start of med school), the accountant will have no debt, most likely be making low 6 figures, and would have earned about 700K during these 10+ years. Meanwhile the MD will have at least 200K+ in debt and would have make only about 160K at this point.

Are my assumptions about medical salaries incorrect or do MDs simply not care at all about being financially rewarded compared to other professions?

One of these threads pops up about once a month, and there are so many things wrong with what you said I'm probably not going to be able to cover half of it, and end up just ranting on the stuff I do recall.

First off: Yes, ' Medicine is not what it used to be.' That quote gets thrown around more than anything, and yes it is true to a certain extent. There was a time when Dr.'s made amazing money, were extremely respected etc etc, but the great age of health insurance has pretty much ended that money train. Basically, if you find yourself reverting to that mindset immediately; do something else with your life, you will be much happier. So, why do people become Doctors then? I mean is the 'MD' worth the pay off?? People who do medicine, do it because it's what they want to do. I'm 100% sure anyone who has come to the point of medical school isn't expecting to drive to their residency in a Porsche, holding a comical fat bag of money with a dollar sign on the front of it. People who come this far in the game know it is extremely hard work, and that it ain't 'what it used to be,' but they do it because they yearn to practice medicine.

Next, let me give you a real life situation here. My father is a national sales manager for general electric. He is 47 years old, and makes amazing money. However, my dad never had a 'burning' passion for business. He went to college, kinda did whatever, and ended up with a business degree. He has worked for that company for over 20 years now, and has had to work his way
up for yearssssss, to get to where he is today. He works 12 hour days, is always on his blackberry and or laptop, and currently has two stents in his chest as a result of 'work related stress' (thats right, heart attack before he was 45).

Where am I going with this? For some reason people have the perception that you graduate college on a Friday, and then on Monday you have a corner office at a Fortune 500 company in the world of 'Business.' There are exceptions to everything in life, but what I am saying is that if you are expecting to breeze into the world of 'Business' (note how I keep putting it in quotes because its laughable to catagorize the entire field as most do), do nothing, and make 500k a year .... good luck. People who really go places in business have insane business sense, bust their ass, and have a passion for business. I know a lot of people who just breeze into business and they have all bounced from job to job never liking what they did, and none of which are making amazing money ( I can give examples if I get ripped on for this, which I have a feeling I will for about 90% of what I'm saying). Nothing will come to you if you don't work hard for it (neglecting fluke cases), and if you do something in life because it's 'safer,' you won't be happy.

Finally: According to almost every study I read, altogether; medicine is still one of the highest paying professions nationally. Second, it has consistantly been rated by US news as one of the 'best careers' to get into, and has the highest job satisfication than anything else I can imagine. You can bank your future off making it 'big' in business or becoming an I banker, but the bottom line (as I beat the dead horse) is that people who excel in anything do so because they are qualified, work hard, and know what they want. Everyone on this forum knows that the money in medicine has changed, but they still want to be a Dr more than anything else in the world because it is what they want to do.

So, to answer your original question; To someone who wants to practice medicine, yes the 'MD' is worth whatever you have to go through to get it, or what benefits it does/does not offer in the future. If you think you can have a better life being an accountant, or doing whatever else; then it sounds like you would be happier doing that. If you don't have a passion for medicine, or want it for the money, then No ... an MD is not for you.

(whewwww .... it's amazing what a bad day at work can do to ya.)

 

[armybound]

um, with an MD after your name you can marry rich.

that's the plan..

 

[parto123]

One of these threads pops up about once a month, and there are so many things wrong with what you said I'm probably not going to be able to cover half of it, and end up just ranting on the stuff I do recall.

First off: Yes, ' Medicine is not what it used to be.' That quote gets thrown around more than anything, and yes it is true to a certain extent. There was a time when Dr.'s made amazing money, were extremely respected etc etc, but the great age of health insurance has pretty much ended that money train. Basically, if you find yourself reverting to that mindset immediately; do something else with your life, you will be much happier. So, why do people become Doctors then? I mean is the 'MD' worth the pay off?? People who do medicine, do it because it's what they want to do. I'm 100% sure anyone who has come to the point of medical school isn't expecting to drive to their residency in a Porsche, holding a comical fat bag of money with a dollar sign on the front of it. People who come this far in the game know it is extremely hard work, and that it ain't 'what it used to be,' but they do it because they yearn to practice medicine.

Next, let me give you a real life situation here. My father is a national sales manager for general electric. He is 47 years old, and makes amazing money. However, my dad never had a 'burning' passion for business. He went to college, kinda did whatever, and ended up with a business degree. He has worked for that company for over 20 years now, and has had to work his way
up for yearssssss, to get to where he is today. He works 12 hour days, is always on his blackberry and or laptop, and currently has two stents in his chest as a result of 'work related stress' (thats right, heart attack before he was 45).

Where am I going with this? For some reason people have the perception that you graduate college on a Friday, and then on Monday you have a corner office at a Fortune 500 company in the world of 'Business.' There are exceptions to everything in life, but what I am saying is that if you are expecting to breeze into the world of 'Business' (note how I keep putting it in quotes because its laughable to catagorize the entire field as most do), do nothing, and make 500k a year .... good luck. People who really go places in business have insane business sense, bust their ass, and have a passion for business. I know a lot of people who just breeze into business and they have all bounced from job to job never liking what they did, and none of which are making amazing money ( I can give examples if I get ripped on for this, which I have a feeling I will for about 90% of what I'm saying). Nothing will come to you if you don't work hard for it (neglecting fluke cases), and if you do something in life because it's 'safer,' you won't be happy.

Finally: According to almost every study I read, altogether; medicine is still one of the highest paying professions nationally. Second, it has consistantly been rated by US news as one of the 'best careers' to get into, and has the highest job satisfication than anything else I can imagine. You can bank your future off making it 'big' in business or becoming an I banker, but the bottom line (as I beat the dead horse) is that people who excel in anything do so because they are qualified, work hard, and know what they want. Everyone on this forum knows that the money in medicine has changed, but they still want to be a Dr more than anything else in the world because it is what they want to do.

So, to answer your original question; To someone who wants to practice medicine, yes the 'MD' is worth whatever you have to go through to get it, or what benefits it does/does not offer in the future. If you think you can have a better life being an accountant, or doing whatever else; then it sounds like you would be happier doing that. If you don't have a passion for medicine, or want it for the money, then No ... an MD is not for you.

(whewwww .... it's amazing what a bad day at work can do to ya.)

Very reasonable post, and im not sure we really disagree on anything (what exactly did i say that you find incorrect?). Two things, that I have previously mentioned, to keep in mind when citing that doctors make more than average in other professions.

1) these numbers don’t take into account opportunity cost, student loans and the head start you receive when choosing other professions. When taking this into account, doctors fall behind many professions. After all, 10 years is a long time to not be making much money.
2) med school has a very accomplished and qualified pool of individuals. Odds are that if they chose other professions, they would make more than “average.”

Also, very often, its not as simple as having a passion or interest and pursuing it. Many times 21 year olds in college are very uncertain of what to do and are forced to choose. Im sure you know many people who were graduating college with no direction so they applied to law schools or I-Banks.

 

[sportsguy560]

First off, average figures for doctors are just like average figures for lawyers, they define a mean value for a larger set of numbers that may vary greatly. Some lawyers make 30k-50k, others make 180k, while the top few make over a million dollars a year as partners at a law firm. In medicine, pediatricians/family practitioners make about 120k a year, gastroenterologists/internists/psychiatrists make about 180k-250k a year, radiologists/orthopedic surgeons/opthalmologists/dermatologists make about 350-500k a year average. Plastic surgeons vary greatly, as some make a few hundred thousands, while others make over a million dollars a year.

Accountants/ibankers do make great money, however, think about a larger opportunity cost. That of course, being your life. As an ibanker you won't have any time to do anything, you will be constantly stressed and overworked, and you will be doing boring, monotonous, monkey-business.

As a lawyer, you will have to connive, cheat, and sell yourself morally for the dollars. This is not the case for everyone, but a great deal who do make the millions will end up making amoral decisions.

Doctors on the other hand have high satisfaction rates because the work is stimulating, and you get to interact with people all the time. The path to become a doctor is extremely grueling, but once you leave with an MD, you are guaranteed work and if you really work hard and are passionate about your specialty, you can make good money.

Personally, I feel as if Engineering and Medicine are the two best careers for one to pursue. I am personally torn between the both of them. Engineering is solid, stimulating, not a lot of years of schooling, and has a relatively stress-free work environment. It gets compensated fairly well for someone who wants to live a life and does not want to chase money.

Medicine is more stressful, active, more years of schooling, but is just as stimulating and exciting as engineering can be.

In my opinion, I could not think of a reason to do accounting. Maybe if you are a dry, dull person that likes monotony then an accounting job would be great, but for many, that kind of job is not enough to live off of intellectually and socially.

Dunno, what ya think?

 

[truebluelion]

High job security.

 

[limpkitty]

1. why dont you point out these flaws and let me respond. My figures are ball park figures, you can adjust them if you would like. Either way, with opportunity cost, loans and head start, medicine will end up behind either way you put it.

2. MDs may make more an avg than lawyers (not than bankers, btw), but the point is that most who get into med school would probably not be "avg lawyers" from avg in avg schools. 1st year salary for associate in NY is 160K+30K bonus (this is 100% accurate). And even if all this wasnt the case, like i said earlier, you have to take into account opportunity cost and loans etc.

you know nothing about lawyers. the fact you state is correct, but you have to graduate at the top of your class to make get those jobs. avg salary coming out of even the top schools is only about 80 grand a year. and it's very tough to move up in the profession.

and the numbers you give are accurate only for the top earners in each field, and it's not hard work that puts people in that position, it's luck and being in the right place at the right time. That's why medicine is good for people who want money (still not a good reason to pursue it though) b/c it provides a high salary and job security, guaruanteed.

 

[deleted36260]

But this is the problem. In Medicine you work longer and harder to finish your studies than virtually all other professions, and at the end the money really doesnt come.

There are plenty of passions and interest i have, but i really cant see myself pursuing them professionally because there is really no financial payoff. This isn’t to say that ill do something I hate, just, like 99.9% of people, its doubtful I will do something I truly like.

Yeah, that's what I and others have said every time this thread comes up.
Your problem seems to be "None of the things I am really passionate about are guaranteed to make me money!"

Well great, welcome to reality. What more can one say?? What you do for a living has no guarantee that the money will come, NO MATTER WHAT.
If your goal is money, then right off the bat you need to eliminate any future in which you are working for someone else for an extended period of time. Speculating currencies seems to be your best bet

 

[armybound]

I guess the whole discussion depends on what you think a worthwhile salary is.

$250k is pretty good money.

 

[parto123]

you know nothing about lawyers. the fact you state is correct, but you have to graduate at the top of your class to make get those jobs. avg salary coming out of even the top schools is only about 80 grand a year. and it's very tough to move up in the profession.

and the numbers you give are accurate only for the top earners in each field, and it's not hard work that puts people in that position, it's luck and being in the right place at the right time. That's why medicine is good for people who want money (still not a good reason to pursue it though) b/c it provides a high salary and job security, guaruanteed.

Actually, graduating from a "top 14" law school almost guarantees that you will get market (160k now in most) in the region you select, as long as you aren’t a social ******. After this schools like GW, BU, BC Fordham, Emory etc. All give you a very good shot at making market, and at the very least, starting at like 120K in a mid sized firm. Im not suggesting anyone chose some third tier law school over med school. This wasnt my point. But even if you go to a mediocre law school and only start at half market (80K) in a small firm. After taking into account 10+ years of med school and residency, this lawyer will be well ahead of the doctor.

 

[Vitum Medicinus]

Tuition and living expenses during college ~ $150,000
Tuition and living expenses during medical school ~ $85,000
Average wage during my intern year in 1998 ~ $5.80 /hour
Average wage my 8th year in surgical training in 2005 ~ $9.75 /hour
Spending ages 22-35 in the library or hospital ~ PRICELE$$

See the entire well-written post at http://plasticsurgery101.blogspot.com/2007/08/its-my-fault-that-health-care-is.html.

 

[dutchman]

MD: Financially worthwhile?

No.

 

[GreenMudPhud]

With as corrupt as business and politics has become over the past decades, it is a wonder to why anyone would want to touch that stuff with a 10 ft. poll. Why make a ton of money if your friends, family, and society know that it's probably fraudulent anyway.

Medicine = much more satisfying, and that's why we do it.

 

[inaminute]

As a lawyer, you will have to connive, cheat, and sell yourself morally for the dollars. This is not the case for everyone, but a great deal who do make the millions will end up making amoral decisions.

what kind of people do you interact with? sheesh, what bull**** and snarkiness

 

[QuantumMechanic]

2) med school has a very accomplished and qualified pool of individuals. Odds are that if they chose other professions, they would make more than “average.”

Also, very often, its not as simple as having a passion or interest and pursuing it. Many times 21 year olds in college are very uncertain of what to do and are forced to choose. Im sure you know many people who were graduating college with no direction so they applied to law schools or I-Banks.

yes us med students are wellmotivated and prone to success, but such qualities don't indicate that we would necessarily make very large (>300k) incomes if we chose other professions/trades. In many professions it can be nearly impossible to earn such large sums of money unless you can capitalize on luck...i.e. being in the right place at the right time.

Being smart and hardworking is great, but it sure as hell doesnt guarantee a savory income.

 

[Law2Doc]

As a lawyer, you will have to connive, cheat, and sell yourself morally for the dollars. This is not the case for everyone, but a great deal who do make the millions will end up making amoral decisions.

Oh please. Your post started out so promising, but took a fast nosedive with the above sentence. There are at least as many immoral and unethical people in medicine as law. Law is better policed, so you perhaps hear about people getting nabbed (disbarred) more. Or perhaps you have watched too much TV. But it is a profession which holds its members to very high ethical standards like other professions. There are plenty of reasons not to go into law, but the above shouldn't make the list, because it's not an accurate portrayal of the job. You spend your time trying to help people with problems, much like medicine. Folks want to buy things, build things, enter agreements or have other problems for which they lack the expertise. You make it happen, and try to put your client into the best position s/he can legally get.

 

[Law2Doc]

My point is that MD doesnt seem attractive if dollar signs are ANY part of your goals.

I think you have answered your own question.

 

[armybound]

See the entire well-written post at http://plasticsurgery101.blogspot.com/2007/08/its-my-fault-that-health-care-is.html.

good post.

what percentage goes straight to insurance overhead?

 

[hawk126]

...and it's not hard work that puts people in that position, it's luck and being in the right place at the right time....

Wow. Just... Wow. Sounds like a winner.

 

[M.Furfur]

Many of us, especially non trads are not in for the money. Finishing school at age 40 with over 200k in debt is bad business by any standard. Most of my high school friends have houses, cars...I still live in a basement, take the bus, and if I get into med school I won't be even thinking of buying a house before age 45!!

 

[inaminute]

Oh please. Your post started out so promising, but took a fast nosedive with the above sentence. There are at least as many immoral and unethical people in medicine as law. Law is better policed, so you perhaps hear about people getting nabbed (disbarred) more. Or perhaps you have watched too much TV. But it is a profession which holds its members to very high ethical standards like other professions. There are plenty of reasons not to go into law, but the above shouldn't make the list, because it's not an accurate portrayal of the job. You spend your time trying to help people with problems, much like medicine. Folks want to buy things, build things, enter agreements or have other problems for which they lack the expertise. You make it happen, and try to put your client into the best position s/he can legally get.

can I marry you?

 

[TheSky]

Going to medical school is an investment that just takes a looong time to pay off, but eventually, it does pay off. Plus there's great job security. Also, I kind of get the impression that you don't even necessarily have to go to a "top" medical school to make the big bucks, whereas with professions such as law, you have to go to a "top" school to rake in the cash. Plus, even if (God forbid) there was some huge disaster or war in the USA (highly unlikely but this is hypothetical), the first thing they'd call in is the doctors. The knowledge learned in medical school can be used anywhere in the world, whereas if you did something like law school you'd have to relearn the laws every time you moved to a different country.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

For me, med school is definitely financially worthwhile.

There's two things I have some aptitude in and passion about. One's medicine. The others sitting on the couch watching TV. One pays the bills, one doesn't.

But honestly, I know a lot of doctors and med students like to say "If I was interested in money, I'd be an Investment banker and make millions". That may be true for them, but not for me. Honestly, I would suck so hard at anything involving finance or business deals. It's not interesting to me and I just don't have the natural ability.

 

[Hyperstudyosis]

I don't care about money. All I want is enough to be able to pay back my debts and enough to live off of, which doesn't take much for me, as I am used to living off little. I eventually would like to do missions work, which obviously would involve me LOSING money rather than GAINING. But that's okay...I don't mind being poor.

 

[Bacchus]

OP: I believe you somehow got directed to the wrong message board. I believe you want a message board that's run by Robin Leach.

 

[deleted77919]

Most people don't spend 10+ years on medical school and residency. Med school is 4 years. Many residencies are 3 years (FM, IM, Peds, EM). If you want to be a NS then count on 7yrs of residency minimum (or cardiology 3 yrs IM + 3 cards, etc) but then again those also tend to be higher paying fields.

With all of the extended length residencies (or internal med fellowships) if really like what you are doing you don't mind so much because you spend many years as a resident doing the job . . . just not getting paid so well for it.

 

[sle3pyguii]

I get to put M.D. behind my name, and Dr. in front.

 

[emttim]

First off, average figures for doctors are just like average figures for lawyers, they define a mean value for a larger set of numbers that may vary greatly. Some lawyers make 30k-50k, others make 180k, while the top few make over a million dollars a year as partners at a law firm. In medicine, pediatricians/family practitioners make about 120k a year, gastroenterologists/internists/psychiatrists make about 180k-250k a year, radiologists/orthopedic surgeons/opthalmologists/dermatologists make about 350-500k a year average. Plastic surgeons vary greatly, as some make a few hundred thousands, while others make over a million dollars a year.

Accountants/ibankers do make great money, however, think about a larger opportunity cost. That of course, being your life. As an ibanker you won't have any time to do anything, you will be constantly stressed and overworked, and you will be doing boring, monotonous, monkey-business.

As a lawyer, you will have to connive, cheat, and sell yourself morally for the dollars. This is not the case for everyone, but a great deal who do make the millions will end up making amoral decisions.

Doctors on the other hand have high satisfaction rates because the work is stimulating, and you get to interact with people all the time. The path to become a doctor is extremely grueling, but once you leave with an MD, you are guaranteed work and if you really work hard and are passionate about your specialty, you can make good money.

Personally, I feel as if Engineering and Medicine are the two best careers for one to pursue. I am personally torn between the both of them. Engineering is solid, stimulating, not a lot of years of schooling, and has a relatively stress-free work environment. It gets compensated fairly well for someone who wants to live a life and does not want to chase money.

Medicine is more stressful, active, more years of schooling, but is just as stimulating and exciting as engineering can be.

In my opinion, I could not think of a reason to do accounting. Maybe if you are a dry, dull person that likes monotony then an accounting job would be great, but for many, that kind of job is not enough to live off of intellectually and socially.

Dunno, what ya think?

I hear you on this 100%. Granted, these figures are far different from what you guys are talking about, but I had a 13/hr job over the summer up until recently doing paperwork for Kaiser. I quit that job and took a 3.50/hr pay cut to make 9.50/hr as an EMT for the ambulance company I currently work for.

Why? Because job satisfaction (and for me personally, being mobile and doing work that is anything but repetitive or predictable) means a lot more than some inane dollar sign. I don't see why people even look at dollar signs if they're considering medicine. Surely we should be compensated for our time, and compensated well considering the debt we go into, but there's always going to be plenty of jobs and professions that make more than MDs, so why contemplate it if your mind is made up on medicine anyway?

 

[DocHeart]

Doctors are just cool man. Its so much more exciting to perform surgery than pushing papers as a lawyer or crunching numbers as an accountant. Plus Doctors are sexier than all other professions.

 

[tacrum43]

$200,000/year is plenty. So doctors don't make the most of any profession. In general, they make more than enough to live "comfortably". Hopefully the financial reasons would NOT be why someone becomes a doctor anyhow.

 

[doinmybest5840]

As a lawyer, you will have to connive, cheat, and sell yourself morally for the dollars. This is not the case for everyone, but a great deal who do make the millions will end up making amoral decisions.

That's not even true for a "great deal" of lawyers. The majority of conniving, cheating, low-morals lawyers are the sheisters in slip and fall or ambulance chasers. There are many areas of law that you can make a lot of money and still have good morals and not cheat or connive, such as tax law or contracts.

Example: I know a married couple that are both lawyers. Husband is a slip-and-fall attorney, earns anywhere from $40-$150K a year, depending on the cases he gets. Wife does contract law, has worked her way up in the same firm she started with out of law school, soon to be named senior partner, which will put her somewhere between $300-$500K a year. Husband is the conniving cheat, but doesn't make anywhere near what the honest wife makes. My point? Lawyers don't have to lie and cheat to do well, and those that do lie and cheat don't always do well either.

Yes, this is quite off topic. But to get back on topic: I think most people go into medicine because it is what interests them and makes them happy. To go into anything for the money is *****ic, because money does not buy happiness.

 

[rich1234]

I love how everyone asks the same question, is it financially worthwhile to become a doctor. If you have to ask this, then yes, for you, your only chance of making over 100k/yr is as a physician. Then everyone points to the anomalies who are making over 300k or better yet over a millionaire dollars a yr. Does anyone realize that only about 2% of the population makes that much, and only about 7% will make 100k/yr. So just statistically speaking that will not be you, so yes becoming a physician is your best bet!

 

[Gospe1]

I also want to say that most lawyers are fundamentally moral people. Whoever said that all lawyers are conniving SOBs probably do not know many of them. I have a friend who just got a 177/180 on his LSAT. With his ridiculously high GPA and strong extracurriculars, he is only applying to Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. However, the only sort of law he wants to do is work for the ACLU. His been interning at the local jail for 3 summers now. Don't generalize about a specific profession. Even investment banking, which is notorious for a certain level of greed, are filled with honest, hard-working individuals who just want to claim their financial independence early.

 

[rich1234]

I also want to say that most lawyers are fundamentally moral people. Whoever said that all lawyers are conniving SOBs probably do not know many of them. I have a friend who just got a 177/180 on his LSAT. With his ridiculously high GPA and strong extracurriculars, he is only applying to Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. However, the only sort of law he wants to do is work for the ACLU. His been interning at the local jail for 3 summers now. Don't generalize about a specific profession. Even investment banking, which is notorious for a certain level of greed, are filled with honest, hard-working individuals who just want to claim their financial independence early.

This post is kind of contradictory, since the ACLU is not a "fundamentally moral" organization.

 

[Law2Doc]

This post is kind of contradictory, since the ACLU is not a "fundamentally moral" organization.

The ACLU is an organization that aims at protecting people's rights under the Consitution. As such the "morals" are not really suspect - they generally are not known for acts of conniving, cheating etc. However often the rights they strive to protect are of the dregs of society -- people who debatably don't warrant so much effort. But some do -- and the founders of this nation (not the ACLU) determined long ago that these rights should run to everyone. You can disagree with the cases the ACLU takes and of their stances, but that doesn't make them immoral. Let's not confuse the morals of attorneys with that the clients and causes they serve.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I have said this before and it bears repeating. Alot of my friends have pretty good jobs in law, accounting, finance. I know that they are making at or near 6 figures in their mid 20s. Alot of them also have problems with alcohol, because the work is so mind-numbing that they feel like they have to drink at night to kill the pain. Yeah, their investment portfolio is going to look better than mine for awhile, but I'm not that worried.

In the last issue of Annals of Emergency Medicine I saw a job advertised at $350k/year. That salary alone would put you in the top 1/2 of 1% of earners in the US. Admittedly that job was not in midtown Manhattan or Seattle but hey, the money is still there if you are willing to look for it.