MD or DO anesthesiologist?

[Gigantron]

This is a question that has been puzzling me. No, I am not "considering" or "thinking about" a career in anesthesiology, as I already know that this is the type of physician that I want to be. No If's, and's, or but's. My question, however, concerns being an M.D. or D.O.

While the educational differences between M.D. and D.O. aren't very different, would being a D.O. affect the employers choice of hiring me as a physician anesthesiologist? Would being a D.O. *reduce* my chances of being hired in a hospital (or any other place for that matter) as an anesthesiologist? Also, how competitive are anesthesiology residencies for a D.O. anyway?

My final question is, what title would be an 'overall' better choice if you were going to specialize in the field of anesthesiology....M.D. or D.O.?

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[Arch Guillotti]

Are you a medical student?

 

[Gigantron]

Are you a medical student?

No, I am not.

I'm currently a Junior in High School and I have been interested in the profession of Anesthesiology since the third grade...

 

[Deanmonster]

it's easier as an MD, although the training you'll receive is about the same.

it's a long path. for now, focus on getting in a good college, doing well on SAT, good grades.

Find something fun you like to do and get really good at it (a sport, musical instrument, martial art, racing cars, whatever). It will make you more interesting and make you appear more well-rounded.

 

[Gigantron]

it's easier as an MD, although the training you'll receive is about the same.

How much easier is it exactly? (I'm only asking because I live in New York, and the only medical school near me is the New York College of Osteopathic Medicine, and typically, medical school is pretty expensive for non-residents. So naturally, this school would be my first choice for a Medical School.) And also, wouldn't it technically be easier for a D.O. only because D.O.'s can apply to MD and DO type residencies?

I have also been studying the Piano privately for 12 years, and I actually do take martial arts...but for the exercise...not so much for trying to look macho or anything.

 

[coprolalia]

Don't go to medical school.

If you absolutely want to be involved in healthcare, there are plenty of ancillary fields that are desperate for people. You will not spend a lot of blood and treasure getting through medical school only to be marginalized as a physician and told by administrators and JCAHO and other regulators what you can and can't do. You won't be >$150,000 in debt. You wont' spend 60-70 hours a week, on average, taking care of people most of whom can't possibly appreciate what you are doing for them always under the auspices of being sued. You won't have the constant threat of people threatening to limit your reimbursements or take your job away.

You will have a chance to have a life if you don't go to medical school.

If I'd known 9 years ago what I know now, I would've never done this.

-copro

 

[badasshairday]

Don't go to medical school.

If you absolutely want to be involved in healthcare, there are plenty of ancillary fields that are desperate for people. You will not spend a lot of blood and treasure getting through medical school only to be marginalized as a physician and told by administrators and JCAHO and other regulators what you can and can't do. You won't be >$150,000 in debt. You wont' spend 60-70 hours a week, on average, taking care of people most of whom can't possibly appreciate what you are doing for them always under the auspices of being sued. You won't have the constant threat of people threatening to limit your reimbursements or take your job away.

You will have a chance to have a life if you don't go to medical school.

If I'd known 9 years ago what I know now, I would've never done this.

-copro

Come on copro, you don't really mean that..... I hope.

 

[Gigantron]

Coprolalia: I hope you read my second post in this thread. This is a profession that I have been wanting to do since the THIRD GRADE. Not many third graders on career day mentioned that they wanted to be an anesthesiologist, let a lone a physician, in my school. And I say that vaguely. This is something that I have been interested in for a long time. The salaries and the lifestyle weren't the reasons why I've wanted to go into this profession. Heck, what makes me giddy is being called "Doctor".

Making a difference in people's lives is what I am most interested in, even though it only involves anesthetics. And yes, over the years, many of my superiors (teachers, adults, parental figures) have tried to put me down on becoming an anesthesiologist, mainly because most of them were under the impression that I was merely interested in driving a mercedes benz with an "MD" or "DO" inscripted on my license plate and living in a McMansion.

No, I'm interested in the field of anesthesiology. I'm sorry, but no matter what you say, you can't change my mind with what I want to be in the future.

 

[badasshairday]

Heck, what makes me giddy is being called "Doctor".

Too bad this "Doctor" thing is losing value. DNP's anyone? Chiropractors? Physical Therapists and Pharmacists are all "Doctors" now. By the time you are done with medical school, everyone will be a bloody "Doctor."

 

[Southpaw]

T
While the educational differences between M.D. and D.O. aren't very different, would being a D.O. affect the employers choice of hiring me as a physician anesthesiologist? Would being a D.O. *reduce* my chances of being hired in a hospital (or any other place for that matter) as an anesthesiologist? Also, how competitive are anesthesiology residencies for a D.O. anyway?

Rather than let this thread spiral downward, we should simply encourage the kid and answer his question. Is a dose of realism warranted somewhere along the way? Sure, but he'll get more than his fair share over time.

There are still a few residencies that frown upon DOs. I'm not sure which ones, but some of the DO applicants in the past few years could surely help out here. I think all things being equal between two applicants, it's probably easier to get into most anesthesiology residency programs as a MD applicant. Does this mean you'll have a hard time if you went to your local DO school and performed extremely well in every measure? Not at all. You'll very likely get into an excellent training program and you'd have no trouble getting a job if you performed well during residency and the market for anesthesiologists was attractive when you finished. Good luck to you.

 

[coprolalia]

Coprolalia: I hope you read my second post in this thread. This is a profession that I have been wanting to do since the THIRD GRADE. Not many third graders on career day mentioned that they wanted to be an anesthesiologist, let a lone a physician, in my school. And I say that vaguely. This is something that I have been interested in for a long time. The salaries and the lifestyle weren't the reasons why I've wanted to go into this profession. Heck, what makes me giddy is being called "Doctor".

Making a difference in people's lives is what I am most interested in, even though it only involves anesthetics. And yes, over the years, many of my superiors (teachers, adults, parental figures) have tried to put me down on becoming an anesthesiologist, mainly because most of them were under the impression that I was merely interested in driving a mercedes benz with an "MD" or "DO" inscripted on my license plate and living in a McMansion.

No, I'm interested in the field of anesthesiology. I'm sorry, but no matter what you say, you can't change my mind with what I want to be in the future.

This is absolutely the penultimately worst reason to go into medicine.

You are going to have a very hard time in the hospital when your romantic, somewhat juvenile notions are subsequently unfulfilled.

I predict, my friend, horrible disappointment in your future.

Nonetheless, good luck.

-copro

 

[Southpaw]

I was merely interested in driving a mercedes benz with an "MD" or "DO" inscripted on my license plate and living in a McMansion.

After Copro's post I did have to comment on this, because it's just really funny to me. If and when I walk to the parking garage at a normal hour in the late afternoon, I see a lot of people driving nice cars (Audis, Mercedes, BMWs, etc.) leaving the hospital. Most of them aren't driven by physicians though. I drive a 13 year old car with over 200,000 miles. But yeah, I introduce myself as Dr. Southpaw and people call me Dr. Southpaw in the hospital. Big whup.

 

[Seafood]

Too bad this "Doctor" thing is losing value. DNP's anyone? Chiropractors? Physical Therapists and Pharmacists are all "Doctors" now. By the time you are done with medical school, everyone will be a bloody "Doctor."

This is why we should start calling ourselves physicians.

Another thing I noticed where I'm at right now is that everyone wears the long white coats. The dietitians, the respiratory therapists, nurse managers etc. I think this is really starting to confuse patients.

 

[lfesiam]

A real world honest answer for you, an MD will be easier in term of applying to competitive residencies.

One step at a time for now: Focus on getting into a good college, volunteer work, GPA, SAT.

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is a question that has been puzzling me. No, I am not "considering" or "thinking about" a career in anesthesiology, as I already know that this is the type of physician that I want to be. No If's, and's, or but's. My question, however, concerns being an M.D. or D.O.

While the educational differences between M.D. and D.O. aren't very different, would being a D.O. affect the employers choice of hiring me as a physician anesthesiologist? Would being a D.O. *reduce* my chances of being hired in a hospital (or any other place for that matter) as an anesthesiologist? Also, how competitive are anesthesiology residencies for a D.O. anyway?

My final question is, what title would be an 'overall' better choice if you were going to specialize in the field of anesthesiology....M.D. or D.O.?

How about CRNA DNP? You still get to be called Doctor. And there is a top program in your state of NY: Columbia

http://sklad.cumc.columbia.edu/nursing/programs/dnp.php


Young people should go to Medical School to become Physicians. If during medical school you choose Physician Anesthesiology then fine. However, how do you know that in 13 years this field will still be called Anesthesiology?

 

[Gigantron]

This is absolutely the penultimately worst reason to go into medicine.

-You seem to find only the bad things about wanting to become a doctor. I could have easily said "I only want to become a physician just because of the money and the lifestyle". If that was the case, I'm sure you would've said the same thing, regardless. What's wrong with *wanting* to be called a doctor in the first place? I hear people all of the time saying that they are only practicing medicine for the money. That, in my opinion, is a sufficiently *worse* reason to go into medicine.

And if you actually READ all of my post, you would've known that the second part that you highlighted talking about the mercedes was merely an example, so I'll try to say it again. They tried to put me down because THEY were under the IMPRESSION that I was in it for the money, despite me having no clue what type of salary anesthesiologists made in the third grade. Do you get it now?

You are going to have a very hard time in the hospital when your romantic, somewhat juvenile notions are subsequently unfulfilled.

-I've been shadowing an anesthesiologist this past summer. He is also a family friend, so it wasn't particularly too hard to get permission to follow this guy *nearly* everywhere he goes. Through the shadowing experience, he was able to answer all of the questions I had for him, even the tough ones. The shadowing experience was actually quite thrilling. I'm also well aware of how stressful it is for some to to work in a hospital from sunrise to sundown, and I wouldn't be interested in this specialty if I was scared of being too stressed out.

I predict, my friend, horrible disappointment in your future.

-I can imagine you would say that. You seem to have met with a significant amount of disappointment yourself, judging by your previous posts, my friend.

*As for everybody else: Thank you all for your reply's. They were certainly helpful.
@BLADEMDA: I appreciate you suggesting another career option for me, but the truth is I've never wanted to be a nurse. I've always wanted to be a physician anesthesiologist. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[badgas]

-You seem to find only the bad things about wanting to become a doctor. I could have easily said "I only want to become a physician just because of the money and the lifestyle". If that was the case, I'm sure you would've said the same thing, regardless. What's wrong with *wanting* to be called a doctor in the first place? I hear people all of the time saying that they are only practicing medicine for the money. That, in my opinion, is a sufficiently *worse* reason to go into medicine.

And if you actually READ all of my post, you would've known that the second part that you highlighted talking about the mercedes was merely an example, so I'll try to say it again. They tried to put me down because THEY were under the IMPRESSION that I was in it for the money, despite me having no clue what type of salary anesthesiologists made in the third grade. Do you get it now?


-I've been shadowing an anesthesiologist this past summer. He is also a family friend, so it wasn't particularly too hard to get permission to follow this guy *nearly* everywhere he goes. Through the shadowing experience, he was able to answer all of the questions I had for him, even the tough ones. The shadowing experience was actually quite thrilling. I'm also well aware of how stressful it is for some to to work in a hospital from sunrise to sundown, and I wouldn't be interested in this specialty if I was scared of being too stressed out.


-I can imagine you would say that. You seem to have met with a significant amount of disappointment yourself, judging by your previous posts, my friend.

*As for everybody else: Thank you all for your reply's. They were certainly helpful.
@BLADEMDA: I appreciate you suggesting another career option for me, but the truth is I've never wanted to be a nurse. I've always wanted to be a physician anesthesiologist. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Copro has given the best advice that he could give you. You asked MD or DO.... and he answered neither. Most of us have more than a decade of training on you and aren't just disgruntled fools. That said, there are also many people who are happy with their decision to go to medical school. I will reiterate Copro's point that you should NOT go to medical school so someone else can call you doctor. You can do plenty of other more reasonable and humane jobs while being called doctor. The doctor title gets old fast and is not worth 12+ years of your life for that. Also, the title does not carry the prestige or get the respect that it once did. It is not uncommon to get no respect at all from anyone in the hospital, including patients and the janitors. Yeah, working 80+ hours a week is nothing when your 17 years old. Think of what it will be like when you are 30 years old. Do you want a family? Do you want a wife/husband asking why you work so much? Do you want the government constantly reaching into your pocket, telling you your salary is just too high? Do you want to work a 24+ hr shift when you are 55+ years old? Does busting your rear only to get rewarded with a lawsuit for something ridiculous sound good to you? How about 250-300K in tuition debt BEFORE interest kicks in? I could go on and on, but these are definitely questions that you need to ask yourself over the next several years. That being said, I can't decide if I would do it over again or not. Some days yes, some no. Best of luck.

 

[Jeff05]

This is a question that has been puzzling me. No, I am not "considering" or "thinking about" a career in anesthesiology, as I already know that this is the type of physician that I want to be. No If's, and's, or but's. My question, however, concerns being an M.D. or D.O.

While the educational differences between M.D. and D.O. aren't very different, would being a D.O. affect the employers choice of hiring me as a physician anesthesiologist? Would being a D.O. *reduce* my chances of being hired in a hospital (or any other place for that matter) as an anesthesiologist? Also, how competitive are anesthesiology residencies for a D.O. anyway?

My final question is, what title would be an 'overall' better choice if you were going to specialize in the field of anesthesiology....M.D. or D.O.?

1. more than 75% of people coming into medical school CHANGE their specialty choice.

2. if possible always go MD route. unless you want primary care.

3. you shadowing as a junior high student - sorry, but you don't have real world goggles on yet. that's why you can't possibly see the real perspective on medicine, anesthesia, life, etc. you will get real world goggles after you study for the mcat, your medschool exams, spend your first night on call as an intern and your last as a resident. but, not until then. law of the universe.
even speaking with medical students about realities of actual practice of medicine is often futile.

4. consequently, the comment that underlines your naivete most is that you have KNOWN that you want from the 3rd grade. most rational people would agree that letting a 3rd grader decide their life trajectory is not the most prudent course of action. if you are interested in medicine, by all means - here's what you do.
a. finish high school with excellent grades
b. do very well in college, research, volunteer, etc
c. do well on mcat
d. apply and get into medical school
e. do well in medical school and do your 3rd year clerkships.

once you get that out of the way, see how you feel about a specific specialty.


5. you are shadowing a private practice anesthesiologist that just went through a GOLDen age (one of several) of anesthesia. very very high salaries, good job security, etc. however, you don't see the other practices out there and don't sense the changing tides. and they are changing.


6. slow down. enjoy. finish high school.

 

[anesthesiadoc]

Coprolalia: I hope you read my second post in this thread. This is a profession that I have been wanting to do since the THIRD GRADE. Not many third graders on career day mentioned that they wanted to be an anesthesiologist, let a lone a physician, in my school. And I say that vaguely. This is something that I have been interested in for a long time. The salaries and the lifestyle weren't the reasons why I've wanted to go into this profession. Heck, what makes me giddy is being called "Doctor".

Making a difference in people's lives is what I am most interested in, even though it only involves anesthetics. And yes, over the years, many of my superiors (teachers, adults, parental figures) have tried to put me down on becoming an anesthesiologist, mainly because most of them were under the impression that I was merely interested in driving a mercedes benz with an "MD" or "DO" inscripted on my license plate and living in a McMansion.

No, I'm interested in the field of anesthesiology. I'm sorry, but no matter what you say, you can't change my mind with what I want to be in the future.

Hey man, the truth is, all of us could quit medicine tomorrow and chase money in another arena if we truly wanted to. At some point many of us felt like you did. Medicine is itself changing, in some very concerning ways for those of us already further down the anesthesia career path. And the term "doctor" is being thrown around by other health care career paths ("doctors of nursing" and a bunch of other political, patient-deceiving non-physician goofs). So we have our burn out days.

That said, I started shadowing anesthesia in the 9th grade, and as much as I tried to keep an open mind in the years that followed, there was no better fit in medicine for me. So here I am, 14 years later, in the final year of my resident training as an anesthesiologist. Am I happy? Yes. Am I fried and burnt out and dissatisfied at times at the VERY long road it has taken to get here? Yes. Am I worried about politicians screwing everything up? Yes. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat.

So back to your original question... If I were you, I would try as hard as I could to get into an MD program in the US. If that ends up not working out, then consider other options. Despite similar training, MD training will open more doors and grant more interviews when it comes time to shop residencies.

Also, don't limit yourself to such a small geographic area when it comes to looking at med schools (or colleges for that matter). Cost is one factor, but at the same time, each of these institutions will be your home for 4 years. In exchange for tuition, you're giving up a decent chunk of your teens and 20's at each of these places. Find a place where you can be happy (or at least less miserable).

Good luck,
Chris

 

[BLADEMDA]

1. more than 75% of people coming into medical school CHANGE their specialty choice.

2. if possible always go MD route. unless you want primary care.

3. you shadowing as a junior high student - sorry, but you don't have real world goggles on yet. that's why you can't possibly see the real perspective on medicine, anesthesia, life, etc. you will get real world goggles after you study for the mcat, your medschool exams, spend your first night on call as an intern and your last as a resident. but, not until then. law of the universe.
even speaking with medical students about realities of actual practice of medicine is often futile.

4. consequently, the comment that underlines your naivete most is that you have KNOWN that you want from the 3rd grade. most rational people would agree that letting a 3rd grader decide their life trajectory is not the most prudent course of action. if you are interested in medicine, by all means - here's what you do.
a. finish high school with excellent grades
b. do very well in college, research, volunteer, etc
c. do well on mcat
d. apply and get into medical school
e. do well in medical school and do your 3rd year clerkships.

once you get that out of the way, see how you feel about a specific specialty.


5. you are shadowing a private practice anesthesiologist that just went through a GOLDen age (one of several) of anesthesia. very very high salaries, good job security, etc. however, you don't see the other practices out there and don't sense the changing tides. and they are changing.


6. slow down. enjoy. finish high school.

Excellent post Jeff.

 

[DO4lifer]

As a DO, I am one of many who successfully matched into anesthesiology residency. Things would have been "easier" as an MD, but I chose to go DO because of location, and it sounds like a similar thing for you.

4 years of medical school with home just down the street? TAKE IT. Classmates were homesick while I was kicking it with relatives. It made life MUCH BETTER.

So again, MD vs DO. take into the factors that are important.
1) location (can't beat being home)
2) job opportunities (about the same as its more dependent on the individual's demeanor and place of training)
3) residencies (MD have the edge on this one, however DOs balance it out with choice of osteopathic AND allopathic residencies to apply to)

One of the above posters had the best advice...that's focus on SATs, get into a good university, and doing well in college and MCATs.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Hey man, the truth is, all of us could quit medicine tomorrow and chase money in another arena if we truly wanted to. At some point many of us felt like you did. Medicine is itself changing, in some very concerning ways for those of us already further down the anesthesia career path. And the term "doctor" is being thrown around by other health care career paths ("doctors of nursing" and a bunch of other political, patient-deceiving non-physician goofs). So we have our burn out days.

That said, I started shadowing anesthesia in the 9th grade, and as much as I tried to keep an open mind in the years that followed, there was no better fit in medicine for me. So here I am, 14 years later, in the final year of my resident training as an anesthesiologist. Am I happy? Yes. Am I fried and burnt out and dissatisfied at times at the VERY long road it has taken to get here? Yes. Am I worried about politicians screwing everything up? Yes. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat.

So back to your original question... If I were you, I would try as hard as I could to get into an MD program in the US. If that ends up not working out, then consider other options. Despite similar training, MD training will open more doors and grant more interviews when it comes time to shop residencies.

Also, don't limit yourself to such a small geographic area when it comes to looking at med schools (or colleges for that matter). Cost is one factor, but at the same time, each of these institutions will be your home for 4 years. In exchange for tuition, you're giving up a decent chunk of your teens and 20's at each of these places. Find a place where you can be happy (or at least less miserable).

Good luck,
Chris

Jeff speaketh the truth. Listen to him. It's good to have goals, but you can't be shutting any doors, especially as a high school student. You really don't know what it's like yet, and shadowing is a pretty poor proxy. However, the journey to being a doctor hasn't been as bad as some people on here make out, but it's not bunnies and daisies, either. It wasn't until I had finished all of my other 3rd year clerkships that I knew anesthesia was right for me. Go to college, have fun, do some pre-meddy stuff, and see if you still like it. If so, great, if not, also great.

 

[leviathan]

I am a haploid sperm and I know in my future heart that anesthesiology is my calling. Assuming I fertilize an egg, go through a normal fetal development, have decent APGAR scores, finish preschool, elementary school, and high school, and then go to university and get a good undergrad, do well on the MCAT, and then apply to medical school, should I go with MD or DO?

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I am a haploid sperm and I know in my future heart that anesthesiology is my calling. Assuming I fertilize an egg, go through a normal fetal development, have decent APGAR scores, finish preschool, elementary school, and high school, and then go to university and get a good undergrad, do well on the MCAT, and then apply to medical school, should I go with MD or DO?

I think most programs have a strict 8,9 APGAR cutoff.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I am a haploid sperm and I know in my future heart that anesthesiology is my calling. Assuming I fertilize an egg, go through a normal fetal development, have decent APGAR scores, finish preschool, elementary school, and high school, and then go to university and get a good undergrad, do well on the MCAT, and then apply to medical school, should I go with MD or DO?

 

[cfdavid]

Coprolalia: I hope you read my second post in this thread. This is a profession that I have been wanting to do since the THIRD GRADE. Not many third graders on career day mentioned that they wanted to be an anesthesiologist, let a lone a physician, in my school. And I say that vaguely. This is something that I have been interested in for a long time. The salaries and the lifestyle weren't the reasons why I've wanted to go into this profession. Heck, what makes me giddy is being called "Doctor".

Making a difference in people's lives is what I am most interested in, even though it only involves anesthetics. And yes, over the years, many of my superiors (teachers, adults, parental figures) have tried to put me down on becoming an anesthesiologist, mainly because most of them were under the impression that I was merely interested in driving a mercedes benz with an "MD" or "DO" inscripted on my license plate and living in a McMansion.

No, I'm interested in the field of anesthesiology. I'm sorry, but no matter what you say, you can't change my mind with what I want to be in the future.

Good for you young dude. That's some serious clearity. Keep this as a goal and focus on doing what you must in order to make your goal happen.

Take all advice with a grain of salt. Stay abreast of changes in medicine and anesthesiology, but mostly stay focused on getting into med school. Things are likely to get more and more competitive and you'll need to make yourself stand out.

Good luck!

 

[maceo]

Don't go to medical school.

If you absolutely want to be involved in healthcare, there are plenty of ancillary fields that are desperate for people. You will not spend a lot of blood and treasure getting through medical school only to be marginalized as a physician and told by administrators and JCAHO and other regulators what you can and can't do. You won't be >$150,000 in debt. You wont' spend 60-70 hours a week, on average, taking care of people most of whom can't possibly appreciate what you are doing for them always under the auspices of being sued. You won't have the constant threat of people threatening to limit your reimbursements or take your job away.

You will have a chance to have a life if you don't go to medical school.

If I'd known 9 years ago what I know now, I would've never done this.

-copro

x2

there is a post i can get behind.

it aint worth it.

anesthesia is boring

you are not treated like a real doctor.

there are too many crooks in the field

you cannot make your own hours (one of the worst things about it)

you feel like you are punching a clock constantly

 

[dillpickles]

I am a haploid sperm and I know in my future heart that anesthesiology is my calling. Assuming I fertilize an egg, go through a normal fetal development, have decent APGAR scores, finish preschool, elementary school, and high school, and then go to university and get a good undergrad, do well on the MCAT, and then apply to medical school, should I go with MD or DO?

This is hilarious.

 

[itwasalladream]

I'd go with MD - don't close any doors if you can help it. About the location thing, if homesickness is a big deal stay close. I went far from home and loved the location. Never got homesick. Everyone's different. But to be honest, with a few exceptions, it generally takes better grades/test scores to get into an MD school. Keep that in mind during college. However, with work you can do anything you want with a DO. A pedi-cardiac anesthesiologist I recently shadowed was a DO. I just think it would be easier with an MD.

About all the people here telling you it isn't worth it - remember that a golden age just passed (maybe) and that a prior slump was in the 90s. Things can change within a few years. You're so far out it would be dumb to give up on anything just yet, but be very sure you know the details about what you're getting into.

 

[DocHolliday21]

I am a haploid sperm and I know in my future heart that anesthesiology is my calling. Assuming I fertilize an egg, go through a normal fetal development, have decent APGAR scores, finish preschool, elementary school, and high school, and then go to university and get a good undergrad, do well on the MCAT, and then apply to medical school, should I go with MD or DO?

Awesome!!!

 

[coprolalia]

What's wrong with *wanting* to be called a doctor in the first place?

My knee-jerk take on your posts, and I believe based on what you've posted thus far is the right one, is that you have some romantic notion that you will be revered and looked-up-to by people if you have the title of "doctor"... that people will necessarily and inherently respect you just because you are a physician.

I would suggest, if you are possibly capable of such introspection at such a tender and innocent age, that you really, really look into the reasons why you feel "giddy" at the thought of being called doctor. This speaks to some ego need you have that, in my vastly greater experience at this "game" (and in life), I will cautiously and most gravely forewarn you will not likely be fulfilled once you actually become a physician... if you actually make it that far.

There are plenty of people in this world, quite frankly, who won't give two sh*ts that you are a doctor. And, most of these people work in the hospital and are the people who will form the bulk of your daily interactions. Trust me.

Ask yourself what is lacking in your life right now that makes you seek this perceived reverence and respect you crave? Is it a failed relationship with a parent figure? Is it a general inadequacy you think will be mollified if you go into medicine? Do you think that doctors are the be-all, end-all in the medical food chain? Do you have some megalomaniacal urge to wield power over people?

I don't know the answers to those questions. Only you do.

But, I will tell you this, there are a lot of people in your shoes who don't really know what it takes to become a physician, nor the regular smack-down you will get by your so-called colleagues and superiors while traveling that arduous path. You cannot possibly now fathom the toll it will take on you in terms of personal sacrifice as well as giving away some of the best years of your life. And, people - most people in medicine - will, quite frankly, not give you even one iota of the shred of the respect or deference you now falsely believe you think you'll deserve... despite the fact that, in all actuality, you probably will deserve it. You WILL get a lot of "cry me a river... you chose this path" if you complain, though.

I didn't go into medicine, personally, to garner the respect of being called "doctor". I genuniely believed that I was going to help grateful people who desperately needed my care, and were going to be appreciative for getting it. I thought I could actually make a difference. I couldn't care less about being called "doctor". I just wanted to help.

Forget about any respect. The last 9 years have been, with the rare exception of the occasional patient who actual is thankful, one of obstacles, argument, obfuscation, and disappointment. It has been filled with people who don't really have any desire to get better, nor do they really want me to do anything more than "fix" them so they can go back to their bad habits. I can't wait - and I know it'll happen - until the first time I get named in a lawsuit. That's going to be the real tester for me as to whether or not I say "f*ck it" altogether and go do something else with my life. I'm sure I'll be a lot happier, even if I'm making half as much as I now do.

So, sport, you need to listen to people, whether you like what they say or not, who have far greater experience in this business and in life when they offer you free advice and a truthful narrative about their experience who maybe, just maybe, once used to be as naive as you.

It doesn't mean you have to agree with it. It doesn't mean you even have to like it. But, you're repeated posts only show your ignorance and hubris and, to many of us, look back and say to ourselves, "Man, if I only had someone so honestly tell me that back when I was considering doing this as a career."

Be prepared for the vast majority of your colleageus, both as physicians and as nurses and ancillary staff, who just don't care: they don't care about you, they don't ultimately care about the patient, they don't care about anything as long as they are getting their paycheck. That's the reality of this business, I hate to say it, and you will be fighting bureaucrats - even more than we are doing now - as well as people who have different opinions than you... most of who could care less that you are "the doctor".

Heed this advice. Print it out. And, if you succeed in going into medical school and getting your wish, look back on this in ten years. You'll say to yourself, I'm willing to bet, I should've listened to that guy. I wish someone had done the same for me.

-copro

 

[UTKB]

Great post copro. Well said. I am an intern but daily do I question my decision to do this and wish I had listened to those that did warn me.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Great post copro. Well said. I am an intern but daily do I question my decision to do this and wish I had listened to those that did warn me.

Hang in there. If Obamacare fails (and that is a HUGE if) your payoff will come. The majority of my colleagues (myself included) live better than 98% of the population. Not too shabby.

 

[CoolWhipp]

This is absolutely the penultimately worst reason to go into medicine.

You are going to have a very hard time in the hospital when your romantic, somewhat juvenile notions are subsequently unfulfilled.

I predict, my friend, horrible disappointment in your future.

Nonetheless, good luck.

-copro

For god's sake, he just grew hair on his balls a couple of weeks ago. Come on Copro, don't take away his unicorns and rainbows.

 

[coprolalia]

Hang in there. If Obamacare fails (and that is a HUGE if) your payoff will come. The majority of my colleagues (myself included) live better than 98% of the population. Not too shabby.

Well, if Obama turns the U.S. into Western Europe (and, trust me, he's trying), I'm just going to reverse emigrate.

That's right, I'm going to take my white ass back to the homeland.

Because, when it comes down to it, the museums, architecture, and churches are more ornate and culturally rich, the people are thinner and more interesting, and the food is a whole lot better.

The brain-drain that occurred during WWII from people escaping Nazi Germany that made this country, our Great U.S. and A., the leader in technology and intelligence and just about everything else is going to get reversed. I'll expatriate... if Maobama makes that decision a whole lot easier for me. And, he's getting closer and closer...

Ever wonder how different the world would be if Einstein hadn't moved to Princeton in 1935 and Wernher Von Braun hadn't surrendered and been transferred to the U.S. in June of 1945? Boggles the mind.

-copro

 

[coprolalia]

For god's sake, he just grew hair on his balls a couple of weeks ago. Come on Copro, don't take away his unicorns and rainbows.

What? I still wished him good luck.

-copro

 

[maceo]

The majority of my colleagues (myself included) live better than 98% of the population. Not too shabby.

im not sure about that!!

 

[foxtrot]

x2

there is a post i can get behind.

it aint worth it.

anesthesia is boring

you are not treated like a real doctor.

there are too many crooks in the field

you cannot make your own hours (one of the worst things about it)

you feel like you are punching a clock constantly

I hate to say it but I totally agree with this. I guess medical school, residency, and fellowship has really made me jaded (or it opened my eyes). The best quote was when someone in my family (not a medical person) asked me a couple of weeks ago if it was too late for me to goto CRNA school. After I about shot this person, I then sat down at a computer and went to the AANA's website and inquired (just kidding)

 

[badasshairday]

Any positive attendings out there want to give an M2 some optimism....... ?

 

[IDBasco]

Any positive attendings out there want to give an M2 some optimism....... ?

No doubt. I'm about to drop out and head down the CRNA path with the way people are talking in here. Lets see...prorated 2nd year tuition...I ought to be about $50k in debt if I drop out. Shouldn't take too long to repair that mistake, right? Yikes.

 

[UTKB]

No biggie, just try to do your research and force yourself to like a field where you can't be replaced so easily by midlevels, like surgery.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Any positive attendings out there want to give an M2 some optimism....... ?

There are plenty of positive attendings. I'd say the majority of them at my institution thoroughly enjoy their jobs, as do the residents. You just have to realize who is more likely to post on these boards. Not saying their opinions aren't valid, but you're also getting a selection bias here.

 

[Consigliere]

Don't go to medical school.

If you absolutely want to be involved in healthcare, there are plenty of ancillary fields that are desperate for people. You will not spend a lot of blood and treasure getting through medical school only to be marginalized as a physician and told by administrators and JCAHO and other regulators what you can and can't do. You won't be >$150,000 in debt. You wont' spend 60-70 hours a week, on average, taking care of people most of whom can't possibly appreciate what you are doing for them always under the auspices of being sued. You won't have the constant threat of people threatening to limit your reimbursements or take your job away.

You will have a chance to have a life if you don't go to medical school.

If I'd known 9 years ago what I know now, I would've never done this.

-copro

I agree with, and could have written, every single word of this post. Uncanny

 

[Consigliere]

Jesus H Christ on a surfboard, copro.....you might just be the most insightful, psychologically astute poster on this board. Kudos!

 

[leviathan]

In all seriousness my own desire to do anesthesiology is almost completely gone. A lot of that is due to the dismal things I've read on this discussion board.

 

[modelslashactor]

In all seriousness my own desire to do anesthesiology is almost completely gone. A lot of that is due to the dismal things I've read on this discussion board.

cosign. i haven't picked a specialty yet, but what is you guys' incentive to push people away from the field and what, exactly, are you suggesting we do instead?

 

[ozzie20]

cosign. i haven't picked a specialty yet, but what is you guys' incentive to push people away from the field and what, exactly, are you suggesting we do instead?

No one has an incentive other than to warn people against our own mistakes in medicine. The field itself is getting worse and worse every day, not month or year. To be honest, none of us could have predicted the complete collapse of the physician 30 years ago.

The big problems I see in the future: ALL primary care fields will be taken over completely by midlevel providers. In a sense it already has. Over the next few years, specializations will be consumed by midlevels as well.

The average Primary care physician makes LESS than most CRNAs. In essence, 4 years of college, 4 years medical school, 3 years residency = less monetary worth than an online degree.

The big picture here is that we're not only saying don't do anesthesia, we're saying don't do medical school.

I'm saying:
Like surgery: be a surgical assistant
Like anesthesia: be an AA/ CRNA
Like Primary Care:be a PA/DNP/ Nurse Practitioner
Like ER: be a PA

 

[Gigantron]

It's annoying how some people act on this board, seriously.

All I wanted to know is if an M.D. degree is better than a D.O. degree when applying to an anesthesiology residency. I didn't ask you people to post rants about how I'm naive and stupid for wanting to become a doctor (apparently), I didn't ask for advice on why I shouldn't go to medical school. Heck, I didn't ask any of you for your opinions about WHAT I want to do with my life after highschool, and quite frankly, I don't understand why a lot of you felt the need to address such issues anyway.

Some of you have actually posted in this thread with...actual answers. And I thank you for that. However, a lot of you have just posted nonsense, and have tried to paint a dismal picture of this medical profession for me, as if they were trying to sway me away from this. Even some of you have answered my question by asking more questions. To be quite frank, it's extremely irritating.

Corp: I'm not going to read a book of replies about how I'm "wrong" in choosing a medical profession that I want to specialize in. It is painfully obvious that you hate doing what you do as a medical physician...even though the reasons you listed of wanting to become one are generally the same reasons I have.

I want to help people, and I don't want to see other people in pain. However, it has become apparent that if ANYONE asks about considering a career in anesthesiology, you decide to write essay-long posts about how they are "wrong" or "aren't right" in choosing this career...just because you have bad experiences with patients not saying "Thank you" for your services. The fact of the matter is, YOU may care if people say thank you or not for your services, but I wouldn't give a damn if somebody says "thank you" to me or not for my potential services. Keeping them alive is satisfactionally pleasing enough for me.

But then your rant even goes further, addressing imaginary issues that you have decided to bring upon yourself to discuss, even though I hadn't said anything about them. NO, I didn't want advice from you about choosing a career (that's what talking to physicians and medical professionals in real life are for. Plus, I already stated that I had wanted to be an anesthesiologist for a long time, knowing full well the academic hardships I will have to face in order to achieve it!), NO I didn't want a "truthful narrative" about your experience because that's not what I was asking for at all in the original god damn post! Even so, after all of the worthless effort you put into your posts...you still couldn't answer the original question. For all I know, you just didn't want to answer the original question because you obviously don't get ranting opportunities like *this*.

My original question in a nutshell: Is M.D. better than D.O. for residencies?
Your first response: Don't go to medical school.

>_>

Of course...you're reply only DID focus on one little tidbit of my post, while blatantly ignoring the rest of it. But whatever, it doesn't matter because I really can't see myself even reading these forums anymore. It's such a negative place...and it seems to be one of the most negative boards in the physician category of these forums.

 

[Jeff05]

dude, you don't know ANYTHING. you know OF the hardships you will face, but you do not know them. you're already running because of the negative opinions on this forum, how will you feel when you come face to face with the actual negatives of this career?

not only copro, but multiple people on this site have told you to slow down and SEE what happens.

you will NOT get more honest, straight forward opinions from anyone else in your life. you think that anesthesiologist you're shadowing is gonna tell you he wishes he was doing something else? not a chance. you think your mommy will tell her precious jewel that she doesn't want you to go into medicine?

it's up to you. ignore EVERYONE on this forum. but, you did post here asking for advice. the advise has been:
1. slow down and see how the next 9 years go, BEFORE, you even apply to residency
2. consider other professions, as this profession is NOT what you think it is.
3. come to peace with the fact that you may not know what you don't know. you may NOT have insight. just believe that this may be true, so you don't come off looking so obtuse.

and i'm one of the happiest people i know in this profession. seriously.

It's annoying how some people act on this board, seriously.

All I wanted to know is if an M.D. degree is better than a D.O. degree when applying to an anesthesiology residency. I didn't ask you people to post rants about how I'm naive and stupid for wanting to become a doctor (apparently), I didn't ask for advice on why I shouldn't go to medical school. Heck, I didn't ask any of you for your opinions about WHAT I want to do with my life after highschool, and quite frankly, I don't understand why a lot of you felt the need to address such issues anyway.

Some of you have actually posted in this thread with...actual answers. And I thank you for that. However, a lot of you have just posted nonsense, and have tried to paint a dismal picture of this medical profession for me, as if they were trying to sway me away from this. Even some of you have answered my question by asking more questions. To be quite frank, it's extremely irritating.

Corp: I'm not going to read a book of replies about how I'm "wrong" in choosing a medical profession that I want to specialize in. It is painfully obvious that you hate doing what you do as a medical physician...even though the reasons you listed of wanting to become one are generally the same reasons I have.

I want to help people, and I don't want to see other people in pain. However, it has become apparent that if ANYONE asks about considering a career in anesthesiology, you decide to write essay-long posts about how they are "wrong" or "aren't right" in choosing this career...just because you have bad experiences with patients not saying "Thank you" for your services. The fact of the matter is, YOU may care if people say thank you or not for your services, but I wouldn't give a damn if somebody says "thank you" to me or not for my potential services. Keeping them alive is satisfactionally pleasing enough for me.

But then your rant even goes further, addressing imaginary issues that you have decided to bring upon yourself to discuss, even though I hadn't said anything about them. NO, I didn't want advice from you about choosing a career (that's what talking to physicians and medical professionals in real life are for. Plus, I already stated that I had wanted to be an anesthesiologist for a long time, knowing full well the academic hardships I will have to face in order to achieve it!), NO I didn't want a "truthful narrative" about your experience because that's not what I was asking for at all in the original god damn post! Even so, after all of the worthless effort you put into your posts...you still couldn't answer the original question. For all I know, you just didn't want to answer the original question because you obviously don't get ranting opportunities like *this*.

My original question in a nutshell: Is M.D. better than D.O. for residencies?
Your first response: Don't go to medical school.

>_>

Of course...you're reply only DID focus on one little tidbit of my post, while blatantly ignoring the rest of it. But whatever, it doesn't matter because I really can't see myself even reading these forums anymore. It's such a negative place...and it seems to be one of the most negative boards in the physician category of these forums.

 

[coprolalia]

(snip)

It's such a negative place...and it seems to be one of the most negative boards in the physician category of these forums.

I don't believe you are in Jr. High School. You write far too well for someone of your purported age. Certainly, if you were a Jr. High Schooler and asked to "shadow" me, I would definitively say "no". There's too much to see in the hospital that, quite frankly, someone your age shouldn't yet be exposed to.

If you truly are in Jr. High School, I admire that you think you know what you want to do with your life. I didn't even know I wanted to be a doctor until I was in my mid-twenties.

Take a breath. Grow up (and I mean that in every sense of the word). See if you are good at science, and I mean on a high school level (and even college level).

And, read my post on this thread I made sometime back...

Still in high school... I got some questions

-copro