MD/PhD and Psychiatry

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Wiesal

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I want to be on the forefronts in schizophrenia research and contribute to an improvement understanding and treatment of the disease while seeing patients of my own. That's why I think an MD/PhD degree would work well for my aspirations. Of course, I am a premed and very ignorant of the field and what this sort of career exactly entails, so I have a couple of questions:

  • What is the day to day life of this career like? How much time would I contribute to research? Will my ability to see patients be limited if research is time demanding?
  • Is it often difficult for physician scientists to receive the needed funding for their projects? Will most of my work consist of fighting for grants as opposed to actually performing research?
  • What amount of research experience will I need from my undergrad experience? Am I disadvantaged since I had no research experience during my freshmen year? Can I make up for this? Does my research experience have to be neuroscience related, or can participate in the other natural sciences?
  • Do you guys have any general advice for me?
Thanks!

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To answer your questions briefly--
1) It will depend entirely on the type of institution you end up in. If you're going to be a serious researcher, compete for R01 NIH grants, publish substantially, get tenure, run a lab, etc. you will have to expect to devote almost all of your time to that aspect of your career--like 80% or more. Research at this level--which is what MD/PhD programs say they are trying to train you for--cannot be "dabbled in" part time.
2) Yes and Yes.
3) To be taken seriously when applying to funded MD/PhD programs (and you don't want an unfunded one--believe me) you need to show that you can take on a project, produce some results, and hopefully at least be part of presenting it to the wider community via a meeting or publication. So find a mentor at your undergrad institution that has a track record of doing this with undergrads. Neuroscience is a plus--and face it, nothing else is really interesting enough to dedicate a career to, right?--but not necessary. Get started when you can, but you don't have to hit it right out of the gate.
4) Try to wash your mind of any romantic notions of what it means to be a physician-scientist. If this were easy, everyone would be doing it. Also be aware that medical school is a vastly different cognitive experience than graduate school--the former is essentially about filling your brain with facts and regurgitating them on multiple choice tests; in the latter you don't even know what the question is most of the time.

Good stuff--Vastly reducing your costs of medical school, possibly getting out debt free.
Getting to "go deep" in biosciences.
Getting to go to some cool meetings, hopefully publishing a couple of papers that will be sitting in libraries forever with your name at the top*.
Being a "hot commodity" on the residency interview trail.
Always having the clinical to fall back on if you can't make it in the world of tenure-track academia.

Bad stuff--Years taken out of the prime of your life spent banging your head against insoluble problems.
Messing with inane technical issues.
Watching your undergrad friends going on to have lives, getting jobs, buying houses, having kids.
Watching your med school buddies go off to clinicals, saving lives and s--t, while you bang your head against a lab bench or spend your weekends in a darkened microscope room.
Watching them go to residency while you're wondering if you have a defensible thesis so you can finish and switch into the rest of your MD.
Starting the whole process over in a research track residency, taking a postdoc-level research fellow position while you try to get a K award to start your own research, navigating academic politics, publishing or perishing...

*I still get emails notifying me when the paper that was the core of my thesis research gets cited. Not a lot mind you, but enough to remind me of my academic immortality.
 
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Saw this thread on my phone and was going to respond once I got back to my computer, but @OldPsychDoc pretty much said everything I was going to say (and then some!).
 
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Great reply already.

Absolutely still a possibility if it's something you're really interested in doing. First step would be getting into some sort of meaningful research experience. That said, for now just focus on getting enough experiences so you have an idea of what life in the world of science is really like -- see if you can sit through both the excitement of positive results and also the frustration and sometimes monotony of technical research.

Also take some time in undergrad to shadow some physicians or even a physician scientist if you could. There are plenty of people to stay tangentially 'involved' in clinical or basic science research but hold primarily clinical careers. These people are not usually holding research funding or spearheading a research group to publish novel materials themselves. But plenty of researchers would love to collaborate with a clinician to keep them more clinically relevant and grounded.


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I don’t see why you can’t be on the forefront of schizophrenia research and also see patients with either an MD or PhD (clinical psych). Doesn’t seem very necessary to get both. You could even prescribe in a lot of states with a PhD plus some extra years. So much of an M.D. is not psych related at all. It just seems like a needlessly brutal road.
 
Really solid questions from a pre-med (for once), and really great responses.

The only thing I'd add which has already been touched on is understanding the possibility that your research may not amount to anything you deem as significant. Especially if you want to be on "the cutting edge" of research and make major breakthroughs. I've had professors who spent 30 years trying to achieve that only to fail to reach that standard again and again. Even failures mean something, but for one or two of my professors it completely turned them off from continuing with research. Obviously not everyone has that attitude or those goals, but just something to think about depending on what OP's mindset is.
 
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Really solid questions from a pre-med (for once), and really great responses.

The only thing I'd add which has already been touched on is understanding the possibility that your research may not amount to anything you deem as significant. Especially if you want to be on "the cutting edge" of research and make major breakthroughs. I've had professors who spent 30 years trying to achieve that only to fail to reach that standard again and again. Even failures mean something, but for one or two of my professors it completely turned them off from continuing with research. Obviously not everyone has that attitude or those goals, but just something to think about depending on what OP's mindset is.
This was a big motivator for me to get out of molecular neuroscience--I knew I wasn't going to cure schizophrenia, or even find a big clue to its pathophysiology--but I sure liked trying to help people with schizophrenia manage their symptoms and function better. Guess I "settled" for changing the world one person at a time.
 
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During our didactics, one of the biggest names in schizophrenia research told us that his 30 years of research has basically not added anything significant to our understanding of the illness. It was kinda sad..
 
I'm thankful for the realistic glimpse into the seemingly harsh world of this career. I'm not 100% certain I want to pursue this path, but at least I'm a little bit more knowledgeable!
This was a big motivator for me to get out of molecular neuroscience--I knew I wasn't going to cure schizophrenia, or even find a big clue to its pathophysiology--but I sure liked trying to help people with schizophrenia manage their symptoms and function better. Guess I "settled" for changing the world one person at a time.
I think I may be content in knowing I dedicated my life to at least trying to cure schizophrenia, or I might just be young and naive. Maybe we'll see :laugh:
 
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