MD students and practitioners only:should DO's change their degree to MD, DO?

[Bacchus]

Honestly, this is not representative of probably 99% of MD student views on DO students. I've rotated with DO students and found them to be among the most pleasant, kind, and friendly I've ever worked with. They were just as competent as the other MD students I had on my rotations. I've also had plenty of DO residents and they're all excellent residents with equally strong training in their respective specialties.

Thanks for liking us. We like you too. I like anyone I can commiserate with who is not an asshat.

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[as1212559]

That would give them 2 degrees making it seem like they are superior to us in some way. When most of them just couldn't get into real medical school.

Us? Aren't you at a foreign school? Pls go.

 

[wonderdog]

You wanna know what else is dangerous? Hitler.

Arrogant premeds and medical students on SDN are just like Hitler. There, I said it.

/derp

Not sure if it's been said...but...Godwin's law

 

[Jason525]

.

 

[Jason525]

Just curious, why would someone with a 35 go to a DO school?

because my grades are weak for MD :'(

 

[NeuroLAX]

Thanks for liking us. We like you too. I like anyone I can commiserate with who is not an asshat.

 

[tantacles]

To be completely honest, I don't care. I just want to work with competent people who love medicine and contribute positively to my field. Whether DO, MD, or DO turned MD (or MD turned DO), it doesn't particularly matter.

 

[PeepsLove]

Another 2 cents from a DO resident. My rotations were primarily ward based at an ACGME residency training site. This isn't abnormal but I've heard of others that were terrible. Depends if you set the rotation up yourself or just let med-Ed do it (and generally med -Ed is super lazy). Also the degree doesn't matter, if it did I could have gone carribean and gotten an MD after my name. Most of my class went to ACGME residencies and a high number in competitive specialties. Lets face it, residency training is what matters.

 

[Mass Effect]

What am I wrong on? DO students go to random MD sites and random community sites. Some MD students only go to academic sites while some only go to community sites. The main difference is MD go to the same place(s) for every rotation while DO go to different states. It would suck to move that much but the actual rotations are similar.

I spent all of third year in the same location. Not all DO students have to travel the country for third year.

 

[MrDocMD]

Sorry MDs are not going to start wasting their time with faith healings and magic tricks

Really?
http://pmr.hms.harvard.edu/pages/38/108

 

[CherryRedDracul]

We are MD. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

 

[PeepsLove]

Actually no....there really isn't any terrible MD schools. That's not to say some aren't much better or that some don't confer more advantages.

I can get my MD from Ross, UAG, or St. George's and I'm confident they are not as good as any DO school.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I can get my MD from Ross, UAG, or St. George's and I'm confident they are not as good as any DO school.

He meant MD schools in the US. I don't think anyone is defending the Carribean in this thread. Maybe some are, but I'm not.

 

[tantacles]

He meant MD schools in the US. I don't think anyone is defending the Carribean in this thread. Maybe some are, but I'm not.

Right, but after you graduate, all that's on your nametag is XXNAMEXX, M.D., which kind of renders the argument about the caribbean moot, especially given the initial question asked in the thread.

 

[evilbooyaa]

The majority of this argument (really) is because DOs get discriminated against in competitive ACGME residencies. So do IMGs. In that aspect it is what it is. Outside of that, DOs shouldn't be worried about the general public's opinions. The general public is dumb. They think the NP, the PA, the DNP, the DO, and the MD are all equal on the ladder, when only the MD/DO are equal. Just do your job as best as you can and don't have an inferiority complex.

 

[docnotsopc]

The majority of this argument (really) is because DOs get discriminated against in competitive ACGME residencies. So do IMGs. In that aspect it is what it is. Outside of that, DOs shouldn't be worried about the general public's opinions. The general public is dumb. They think the NP, the PA, the DNP, the DO, and the MD are all equal on the ladder, when only the MD/DO are equal. Just do your job as best as you can and don't have an inferiority complex.

Until I go to apply to a program with slightly higher board scores, stats, etc than an MD.... and they pick the MD. Easier said than done. Although to be fair, its the minority of DOs making us look bad. You know, the ones who truly believe OMM is the answer for everything. The ones who will recommend rib raising to treat that lobar pneumonia instead of antibiotics

 

[Amazingmuzmo]

Until I go to apply to a program with slightly higher board scores, stats, etc than an MD.... and they pick the MD. Easier said than done. Although to be fair, its the minority of DOs making us look bad. You know, the ones who truly believe OMM is the answer for everything. The ones who will recommend rib raising to treat that lobar pneumonia instead of antibiotics

If you really wanted to be most competitive for any residency, especially the highly competitive fields, then you should have gone MD. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to enroll in a DO school, and if you didn't know that going DO might put you at a disadvantage when trying to match compared to MDs then that's your fault for not researching it in depth.

At the end of the day, PDs often will have a mindset of "if it's an MD vs a DO, the MD was good enough to get into an allopathic school over the DO" and choose him 9 out of 10 times, assuming all else in their applications are equal.

 

[jerseytrash]

If you really wanted to be most competitive for any residency, especially the highly competitive fields, then you should have gone MD. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to enroll in a DO school, and if you didn't know that going DO might put you at a disadvantage when trying to match compared to MDs then that's your fault for not researching it in depth.

At the end of the day, PDs often will have a mindset of "if it's an MD vs a DO, the MD was good enough to get into an allopathic school over the DO" and choose him 9 out of 10 times, assuming all else in their applications are equal.

Cool story bro, I'm sure that's how EVERY single PD evaluates applicants

 

[Amazingmuzmo]

Cool story bro, I'm sure that's how EVERY single PD evaluates applicants

Yup, and the 9 time out of 10 thing was statistically calculated based on a nationwide survey of over 10,000 PDs

 

[notbobtrustme]

Until I go to apply to a program with slightly higher board scores, stats, etc than an MD.... and they pick the MD. Easier said than done. Although to be fair, its the minority of DOs making us look bad. You know, the ones who truly believe OMM is the answer for everything. The ones who will recommend rib raising to treat that lobar pneumonia instead of antibiotics

That's a function of trusting LCME accredditing over COCA accreditation. Not everything comes down to grades and board scores. The environment in which those scores were obtained is also important. Furthermore, PDs are more likely to take students from schools that they have experience with, especially if past students turned out to be great residents and since there are more MD schools and PDs are more likely to have a longer history with MD schools, they'll trust the student from the MD school more than the DO.

However, despite all that, many DOs do get into ACGME residencies and do well. You just have to aware the bias exists and deal with it. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, which is why DO schools have grade replacement and such, but at the same time, mistakes have consequences.

 

[rocketbooster]

Yup, and the 9 time out of 10 thing was statistically calculated based on a nationwide survey of over 10,000 PDs

Dammmmnn. I've nevers seen someone get owned so badly.

That's a function of trusting LCME accredditing over COCA accreditation. Not everything comes down to grades and board scores. The environment in which those scores were obtained is also important. Furthermore, PDs are more likely to take students from schools that they have experience with, especially if past students turned out to be great residents and since there are more MD schools and PDs are more likely to have a longer history with MD schools, they'll trust the student from the MD school more than the DO.

However, despite all that, many DOs do get into ACGME residencies and do well. You just have to aware the bias exists and deal with it. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, which is why DO schools have grade replacement and such, but at the same time, mistakes have consequences.

This. At the sametime, MD schools hold your hand and do everything possible to not fail out ppl. They let you remediate courses or even entire years just like DO and Carib schools. At my school you can retake a failed module over the summer, but if you fail 2 or more modules then you have to repeat the whole year.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Yup, and the 9 time out of 10 thing was statistically calculated based on a nationwide survey of over 10,000 PDs

nice

 

[MRSAful Fate]

I'm a DO student and I don't care about changing our degree. I would be in favor of standardizing our board exams and oversight with our MD counterparts. We're all going to be working as physicians, we should be held to the same quality standards in terms of education. My 2¢.

 

[deleted6669]

Just curious, why would someone with a 35 go to a DO school?

To avoid having to go to school with most of the folks posting in this thread....reason enough right there...
C'mon folks get it together, you should be hating on PAs and NPs, remember? I thought this was SDN after all....
(PS I didn't answer the poll but would have voted no. some of the best docs I know are DOs. Chiefs of depts, etc. None of them are ashamed of their DO initials and they have no reason to be.).
There are folks with stellar grades and great mcats who decide on DO because they like the focus of the training(rural and/or community based as opposed to BIG ACADEMIC MEDICAL CTR) better and the folks they would be training with. There are definitely more uptight gunners in a typical MD program than a typical DO program. some folks just don't want to hang around with that crowd. Given the choice I would go DO over MD every time.

 

[tartesos]

He's the one.

Didn't he train in an allopathic residency. Just saying.

 

[notbobtrustme]

To avoid having to go to school with most of the folks posting in this thread....reason enough right there...
C'mon folks get it together, you should be hating on PAs and NPs, remember? I thought this was SDN after all....
(PS I didn't answer the poll but would have voted no. some of the best docs I know are DOs. Chiefs of depts, etc. None of them are ashamed of their DO initials and they have no reason to be.).
There are folks with stellar grades and great mcats who decide on DO because they like the focus of the training(rural and/or community based as opposed to BIG ACADEMIC MEDICAL CTR) better and the folks they would be training with. There are definitely more uptight gunners in a typical MD program than a typical DO program. some folks just don't want to hang around with that crowd. Given the choice I would go DO over MD every time.

If you do so, then you have no basis to bitch about ACGME bias for MD students. Only a small number of students fit that mold anyways. For the rest of the 97%+ of DO students, they are there because DO schools are a backup to MD schools. There's a big reason why DO GPA and MCAT scores are lower than MD schools and it's not because DO schools look for the whole applicant (hint MD schools do the same). Like it or not, those scores correlate with how well one can handle the workload and standardized exams you'll be taking for the next 10 years.

Finally, in a class of 100-200, it's easy to find your clique, however it is you define that. You want to hang with chill people and not stress? There are easily 5-10 people in any class. Want the uber-gunners? Probably half of the starting M1 class starts out that way. And you can find every combination inbetween.

 

[rocketbooster]

If you do so, then you have no basis to bitch about ACGME bias for MD students. Only a small number of students fit that mold anyways. For the rest of the 97%+ of DO students, they are there because DO schools are a backup to MD schools. There's a big reason why DO GPA and MCAT scores are lower than MD schools and it's not because DO schools look for the whole applicant (hint MD schools do the same). Like it or not, those scores correlate with how well one can handle the workload and standardized exams you'll be taking for the next 10 years.

Finally, in a class of 100-200, it's easy to find your clique, however it is you define that. You want to hang with chill people and not stress? There are easily 5-10 people in any class. Want the uber-gunners? Probably half of the starting M1 class starts out that way. And you can find every combination inbetween.

This.

Keep dreaming DO kid above. I know 1/20 DO kids personally who chose DO over MD. She had no interest a competitive specialty and did a college level research paper on OMM so she was convinced DO is better. Haven't seen her in 5 years though. I rotated with several DOs in my gen surg rotation and every single one of them said they couldn't get into MD so they went DO. They were more laid back than my MD counterparts though. Seemed more "normal" to me and got along with them better honestly.

 

[Akail]

If you do so, then you have no basis to bitch about ACGME bias for MD students. Only a small number of students fit that mold anyways. For the rest of the 97%+ of DO students, they are there because DO schools are a backup to MD schools. There's a big reason why DO GPA and MCAT scores are lower than MD schools and it's not because DO schools look for the whole applicant (hint MD schools do the same). Like it or not, those scores correlate with how well one can handle the workload and standardized exams you'll be taking for the next 10 years.

Finally, in a class of 100-200, it's easy to find your clique, however it is you define that. You want to hang with chill people and not stress? There are easily 5-10 people in any class. Want the uber-gunners? Probably half of the starting M1 class starts out that way. And you can find every combination inbetween.

This.

Keep dreaming DO kid above. I know 1/20 DO kids personally who chose DO over MD. She had no interest a competitive specialty and did a college level research paper on OMM so she was convinced DO is better. Haven't seen her in 5 years though. I rotated with several DOs in my gen surg rotation and every single one of them said they couldn't get into MD so they went DO. They were more laid back than my MD counterparts though. Seemed more "normal" to me and got along with them better honestly.

I hope you guys realize that you're referencing someone who is a PA...

 

[deleted6669]

I know 1/20 DO kids personally who chose DO over MD. She had no interest a competitive specialty.....I rotated with several DOs in my gen surg rotation and.... They were more laid back than my MD counterparts though. Seemed more "normal" to me and got along with them better honestly.

KINDA MY POINT....so someone interested in full scope rural family medicine AND not going to school with gunners might make a conscious choice to go DO even with perfect mcats and a 4.0....
I have a 3.97 undergrad gpa and would never apply md for just this reason....

 

[yehhhboiii]

KINDA MY POINT....so someone interested in full scope rural family medicine AND not going to school with gunners might make a conscious choice to go DO even with perfect mcats and a 4.0....
I have a 3.97 undergrad gpa and would never apply md for just this reason....

cool story bro

 

[rocketbooster]

.

 

[rocketbooster]

KINDA MY POINT....so someone interested in full scope rural family medicine AND not going to school with gunners might make a conscious choice to go DO even with perfect mcats and a 4.0....
I have a 3.97 undergrad gpa and would never apply md for just this reason....

No that girl was just misinformed. Every DO admits most OMM is a load of crap and would never do it. She was just a misinformed premed kid. Shouldn't affect her career though since I think she wanted only primary care. Gunner MDs had nothing to do with it and only a small percentage of MD classes are gunners anyway.

I just realized you're a "health student" though. Premeds dont know **** about medicine or the reality of med school. That's just the fact and you'll understand in 5 years. You have a nice gpa but you also have "health student" by your name instead of premed so I'm guessing you have some bs sports medicine or nutrition major or something thats not an actual science major. So basically your gpa would be less impressive and med schools see through that.

Anyways, it would be a huge mistake of you chose DO. You'll get a better education at an MD school and you'll be surrounded by smarter ppl. Like I said, only a small fraction are annoying gunners.

My little brother doesnt know much about med school yet but he still knows way more than you and he's only a freshman. He is a bio major and has a 4.0 though...def beats your 3.97 bs major...guess I cant expect you to understand

 

[deleted6669]

I just realized you're a "health student" though.

I have been working in emergency medicine as both a paramedic and PA for likely longer than you have been alive. my "student" status is because I am in a 4 year doctoral program in global health.
I am not applying to medschool but have lots of background on the difference between the types of students who go DO vs MD having worked in healthcare for over a quarter of a century and being the son and grandson of physicians. I teach medstudents and residents. I know more about medschool and residency than you might expect.

 

[JP2740]

KINDA MY POINT....so someone interested in full scope rural family medicine AND not going to school with gunners might make a conscious choice to go DO even with perfect mcats and a 4.0....
I have a 3.97 undergrad gpa and would never apply md for just this reason....

What the **** is this drivel?

Doesn't even sound like trolling?

 

[deleted6669]

What the **** is this drivel?

Doesn't even sound like trolling?

some of us recognize the difference between the DO and MD program typical students and philosophy and actually care about the difference. some folks CHOOSE DO because they don't want to do some supercompetitive subspecialty AND they don't want to go to school with brown nosing assclown gunners.

 

[rocketbooster]

I have been working in emergency medicine as both a paramedic and PA for likely longer than you have been alive. my "student" status is because I am in a 4 year doctoral program in global health.
I am not applying to medschool but have lots of background on the difference between the types of students who go DO vs MD having worked in healthcare for over a quarter of a century and being the son and grandson of physicians. I teach medstudents and residents. I know more about medschool and residency than you might expect.

You know nothing about med school. Zero. Unless you've been to med school yourself, then you can't comment on it whatsoever based on mere interactions you've had with students and residents. Of the hundreds of med students and residents I've talked to, not one has ever mentioned gunners being a reason they apply DO vs MD. We have explained your arguments are complete nonsense and you continue to ignore us because of your background that has no relevance to med school.

You sound bitter that you couldn't get into med school so youve been forced to work as 2nd string your entire life.

There's no point in you posting here because not a single person believes anything you say since you have no med school background.

Go to another forum. I'm done taking out the trash here.

 

[deleted6669]

You know nothing about med school. Zero. Unless you've been to med school yourself, then you can't comment on it whatsoever based on mere interactions you've had with students and residents. Of the hundreds of med students and residents I've talked to, not one has ever mentioned gunners being a reason they apply DO vs MD. We have explained your arguments are complete nonsense and you continue to ignore us because of your background that has no relevance to med school.

You sound bitter that you couldn't get into med school so youve been forced to work as 2nd string your entire life.

There's no point in you posting here because not a single person believes anything you say since you have no med school background.

Go to another forum. I'm done taking out the trash here.

case in point. typical MD gunner. SDN was founded as a DO forum.
I'm done with you.

 

[yehhhboiii]

case in point. typical MD gunner. SDN was founded as a DO forum.
I'm done with you.

If you hate MD people so much, why do you keep posting in allopathic? You won't find us on your PA forum, trying to troll people in a desperate attempt to compensate for some bizarre inferiority complex.

 

[notbobtrustme]

 

[DrEnderW]

Dude... Rocketbooster... Take a chill pill.

None of this even applies to me, but your nonsense about "2nd string profession" and crap like that is just ridiculous. That kind of attitude is why people are skeptical of doctors in this country.

Believe it or not, just because you're a med student doesn't make you all knowing. I think the "doesn't want to be around gunners" is not realistic either, but learn to conduct yourself with some decency.

You're quickly becoming one the the biggest troll posters on here. Every time DO or and other health background comes up your the first to make belittling insults.

 

[pipe dream]

I rotated with several DOs in my gen surg rotation and every single one of them said they couldn't get into MD so they went DO. They were more laid back than my MD counterparts though. Seemed more "normal" to me and got along with them better honestly.

You went around asking your residents/attendings why they went to DO school? Dude...

No that girl was just misinformed. Every DO admits most OMM is a load of crap and would never do it.

Every DO, huh? So then there are robots in the OMM residencies I suppose? Please link me to the results of your nationwide DO poll that polled every DO. I can't wait to see it.

Anyways, it would be a huge mistake of you chose DO. You'll get a better education at an MD school and you'll be surrounded by smarter ppl. Like I said, only a small fraction are annoying gunners.

My little brother doesnt know much about med school yet but he still knows way more than you and he's only a freshman. He is a bio major and has a 4.0 though...def beats your 3.97 bs major...guess I cant expect you to understand

You insult someone's intelligence while your post is littered with grammar and punctuation errors that a child would catch?

You know nothing about med school. Zero. Unless you've been to med school yourself, then you can't comment on it whatsoever based on mere interactions you've had with students and residents. Of the hundreds of med students and residents I've talked to, not one has ever mentioned gunners being a reason they apply DO vs MD

And again, you go around asking "hundreds of med students and residents" why they went to DO school. I can only imagine what they think about you.

You sound bitter that you couldn't get into med school so youve been forced to work as 2nd string your entire life.

And you sound like you have a major inferiority complex and a drive to bash anything DO thanks to your own self-loathing. I love how you get off on telling others they can't comment on med school or on clerkships because they haven't experienced it, yet you feel more than comfortable sharing your misinformed knowledge on DO school and DO clerkships. Hypocrisy anyone?

There's no point in you posting here because not a single person believes anything you say since you have no med school background.

Go to another forum. I'm done taking out the trash here.

Who the hell died and made you King of the Board?

Dude... Rocketbooster... Take a chill pill.

None of this even applies to me, but your nonsense about "2nd string profession" and crap like that is just ridiculous. That kind of attitude is why people are skeptical of doctors in this country.

Believe it or not, just because you're a med student doesn't make you all knowing. I think the "doesn't want to be around gunners" is not realistic either, but learn to conduct yourself with some decency.

You're quickly becoming one the the biggest troll posters on here. Every time DO or and other health background comes up your the first to make belittling insults.

/closethread

I can't believe rocketbooster still has an account here after all the name-calling and bullying he does. Just a casual search of his past posts shows him calling people *****s and stupid all over the place while trying to exert his "superior knowledge" on the rest of the world.

 

[rocketbooster]

^^^dude this is an Internet forum chill out.

And no way I don't ask the DO students why they went DO. They would always joke around and say they couldn't get into MD so went DO. And would make jokes about messing up in front of attendings and telling them "hey I'm just DO student cut me some slack." All MD students got along regardless of MD or DO.

But on a random forum when I see ppl posting false things about going DO over MD, I want to correct it so random readers don't learn the wrong info. The stuff that guy posted avoid MD gunners and whatnot is nonsense that I don't want other ppl to use to decide to go DO and then realize during 3 rd year that suddenly a lot of specialties are almost off limits to them

 

[bobow98]

Rocketbooster ethuggin it.

Stop before you make yourself look more toolish broski .

While you have some truth in your replies, you lost all credibility when you started attacking someone based on your imagination of their credentials lacking or not. Try to engage in mature discussion instead and your posts will end up being more influential and positively received.

Assuming just makes an as.s out of u and me.

 

[rocketbooster]

Sometimes the truth hurts.

And if you don't listen to advice ppl give you the first time and continue to speak nonsense, then the second time may turn ugly.

I know my occasional bluntness may come off douchey, but man up. A health student with no med school background has absolutely no purpose of even posting in this thread. Reread the thread title.

 

[Etorphine]

.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

The idea that allopathic and osteopathic schools - and the people that comprise them - are the same is making a big leap, don't you think?

For the record, I would choose a MD EVERY TIME for my personal health problems. To that end, I would definitely want to know the distinction between providers that are MD and those that are DO.

Why do you say that? Having slightly lower stats in undergrad doesn't mean MD and DO are that different. Quite a few US MD schools out there which accept people in the same stats range as DO schools. Only difference being that DOs get OMT training. After passing boards and residency training, there are NO differences. MD = DO all day erryday! End of debate, now get back to becoming a good doctor MD or DO.

 

[DrEnderW]

For the record, I would choose a MD EVERY TIME for my personal health problems. To that end, I would definitely want to know the distinction between providers that are MD and those that are DO.

Really? That kind of surprises me. My parents and siblings are MDs, but all my childhood doctors were DOs because they happened to be the most respected/ recommended doctors in our area.

For example when I needed surgery to recover from athletic injuries, it was more important that my doc was a collegiate athlete himself and knew the importance of pushing the recovery time, etc. I think that's a big leap to say MD every time, but that is just me personally. I'm way more concerned about personality than initials - I feel like if you've completed a residency in the US you're pretty qualified to treat me.

 

[jerseytrash]

The idea that allopathic and osteopathic schools - and the people that comprise them - are the same is making a big leap, don't you think?

For the record, I would choose a MD EVERY TIME for my personal health problems. To that end, I would definitely want to know the distinction between providers that are MD and those that are DO.

You do know that DO and MD physicians have essentially the same training other than OMM right?

 

[rocketbooster]

Really? That kind of surprises me. My parents and siblings are MDs, but all my childhood doctors were DOs because they happened to be the most respected/ recommended doctors in our area.

For example when I needed surgery to recover from athletic injuries, it was more important that my doc was a collegiate athlete himself and knew the importance of pushing the recovery time, etc. I think that's a big leap to say MD every time, but that is just me personally. I'm way more concerned about personality than initials - I feel like if you've completed a residency in the US you're pretty qualified to treat me.

Lol owned. Agree 100%

 

[The kitchen sink]

^^^dude this is an Internet forum chill out.

And no way I don't ask the DO students why they went DO. They would always joke around and say they couldn't get into MD so went DO. And would make jokes about messing up in front of attendings and telling them "hey I'm just DO student cut me some slack." All MD students got along regardless of MD or DO.

But on a random forum when I see ppl posting false things about going DO over MD, I want to correct it so random readers don't learn the wrong info. The stuff that guy posted avoid MD gunners and whatnot is nonsense that I don't want other ppl to use to decide to go DO and then realize during 3 rd year that suddenly a lot of specialties are almost off limits to them

As a DO student, who did a straight undergrad to DO program, without much knowledge of the implications of how I would viewed during time of residency applications, there is credence to rocketbooster's statement. I am interested in IM but now I realize that some of top programs are 'off-limits' because I am a DO candidate. I really had no idea at the time, so when my little sister asked me whether she should do MD or DO, I told her MD, just so she could keep all her options open. I am happy I gave her that advice. That being said, I am a happy DO student, if that matters.