MD vs. DO thread-- Final Resting Place

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WOW. For a bunch of science guys, y'all are really easily offended when I ask where to find some research info. I've looked through the internet and torn up the research databases at my school and I haven't been able to find any studies. Since this is the topic at hand, I thought it might be a good place to ask. You may now return to your unfounded speculations and rants about MD vs DO.
 
JackDanielMD said:
WOW. For a bunch of science guys, y'all are really easily offended when I ask where to find some research info. I've looked through the internet and torn up the research databases at my school and I haven't been able to find any studies. Since this is the topic at hand, I thought it might be a good place to ask. You may now return to your unfounded speculations and rants about MD vs DO.
Click to expand...

Haha, man, we are just having fun. Lighten up. You do have to concede that some of your past threads are inflammatory, I think that's the real crux here. We are taking it lightly and in stride, rest assured, so don't assume you ruffled anyone here. Regardless, your question has been answered! 👍
 
nlax30 said:
A) There is none

B) -D) Probably not going to find much if anything on these

E)- F) I'm sure out there somewhere, may be tricky to track down.

Are you looking for research articles looking at these "issues" or just trying to find the numbers/stats?
Click to expand...

Well, since this thread exists, these are "issues." I've heard all these arguments before, however I've only heard anecdotal evidence supporting arguments like: "MDs and DO are equal" or "DOs have a harding time matching for super competitive residencies.

Everyone knows that there are fewer DOs in Dermatology. Why? Does a smaller percentage of DOs apply? Are DOs applying as competitive as MDs? If an MD and a DO have similar stats, how often will one be chosen over another by the allopathic/osteopathic distinction? Are there regions in the US that are more/less prone to this type of selection? Finally, after entering private practice, is there an income difference?

I would like to find research articles addressing some of those questions, not necessarily about dermatology. If anyone has any leads that would be great.
 
gasapple said:
Haha, man, we are just having fun. Lighten up. You do have to concede that some of your past threads are inflammatory, I think that's the real crux here. We are taking it lightly and in stride, rest assured, so don't assume you ruffled anyone here. Regardless, your question has been answered! 👍
Click to expand...

Ah yes, but I do enjoy a good inflammatory post. I decided to quit posting here while drunk, which as a strong correlation with the reduction of my inflammatory posts. Who could have known?
 
JackDanielMD said:
Well, since this thread exists, these are "issues." I've heard all these arguments before, however I've only heard anecdotal evidence supporting arguments like: "MDs and DO are equal" or "DOs have a harding time matching for super competitive residencies.

Everyone knows that there are fewer DOs in Dermatology. Why? Does a smaller percentage of DOs apply? Are DOs applying as competitive as MDs? If an MD and a DO have similar stats, how often will one be chosen over another by the allopathic/osteopathic distinction? Are there regions in the US that are more/less prone to this type of selection? Finally, after entering private practice, is there an income difference?

I would like to find research articles addressing some of those questions, not necessarily about dermatology. If anyone has any leads that would be great.
Click to expand...

I honestly think that a majority of your bullet points can be addressed by looking at the raw numbers. Currently, less than 10% of practicing physicians are DOs, a stat that is rapidly changing with the educational landscape. I doubt there are any other discernible differences in many specialties and without a broad sample and equivalent numbers (which would impact overall perception), I think this would be impossible to accurately determine. Just my cursory opinion.
 
JackDanielMD said:
Ah yes, but I do enjoy a good inflammatory post. I decided to quit posting here while drunk, which as a strong correlation with the reduction of my inflammatory posts. Who could have known?
Click to expand...


Haha! I have to agree with you there - friends don't let friends drink and post. :laugh:
 
I posted this somewhere else but it seems more appropriate here.
BTW I'm an MD who just finished GI fellowship.
DO=MD and vice versa in my mind as it should in everyone's mind!!

My brother is a DO (Mich State) resident, and he is a much better resident than I was.
Give me a break...we were both Phi Beta Kappa in undergrad...but I got a 30 on my MCAT and he got a 28.....big F-ing deal...he was a much better hockey player....

DOs....don't have an inferiority complex and know you are just as good if not better than a lot of the MDs!!! And it is just better to ignore the ignorant MDs and not provoke them!!
Most of these students/residents have no idea what they are talking about and are just talking out of their asses. MD or DO after your name has nothing to do with salary/compassion/knowledge/skill and especially success after residency. 😎
 
Faculty and residents at every single of the emergency medicine residencies I have both rotated at and interviewed at in several regions of the country directly have told me that the DO's are their best and brightest residents.

If you are pre-med or a medical student, you have no place posting negative statements about DO's, since you clearly lack the experience and only display your ignorance.
 
It's pretty funny that someone said to just ignore the ignorant md's and not provoke them. Again that's saying they just should be allowed to run down do's or future do's. MD=DO in the united states if you don't believe me just find either md or do who isn't as busy as they want to be.
 
Aww.. I was hoping for drama today. Maybe some assinine person will come in later and we can have fun. Otherwise I will have to start studying for finals and that just sucks...
 
image.php


That says it all! 👍 :laugh: 👍
 
As an allopathic medical student, are there differences between DO's and MD's....perhaps so, maybe not. Who cares. If you are in medical school, you're going to be a doctor.
 
I think MDs do have to sign off on it, unless its an herbal treatment, then an MD doesn't have to.
 
OMG, I just got a trolling infraction for those. Someone needs to lighten up!
 
gida said:
I posted this somewhere else but it seems more appropriate here.
BTW I'm an MD who just finished GI fellowship.
DO=MD and vice versa in my mind as it should in everyone's mind!!

My brother is a DO (Mich State) resident, and he is a much better resident than I was.
Give me a break...we were both Phi Beta Kappa in undergrad...but I got a 30 on my MCAT and he got a 28.....big F-ing deal...he was a much better hockey player....

DOs....don't have an inferiority complex and know you are just as good if not better than a lot of the MDs!!! And it is just better to ignore the ignorant MDs and not provoke them!!
Most of these students/residents have no idea what they are talking about and are just talking out of their asses. MD or DO after your name has nothing to do with salary/compassion/knowledge/skill and especially success after residency. 😎
Click to expand...

👍👍👍
 
i'm not trying to troll or anything.

here are a few things a MD cardiologist said to me. i was asking if i should apply to only allopathic or to both allo and osteo. he said you don't wanna be the DO for the following reasons:

-you're always thought of as a 2nd class citizen
-when trying to get your residency and competing with someone with same qualifications, the MD always wins over the DO
-his prior group which was a huge group made up of cardiologists and all other kinds of specialties (included 28 docs) had a no DO policy. they were only allowed to recruit MDs. the group's changed since then but still was shocked to hear it was a policy to not accept DOs before.
-DOs are not recognized internationally. only MDs are univeral. DO doesn't mean much outside the US.

also, an orthopedic surgeon came to my school yesterday to speak and a girl who is starting osteopathic school in the fall asked him how DOs go about getting into that speciality. he told her flatout in front of everyone "no DOs won't get a residency in this field. you need an MD." dannng buurnn! i don't know...all MDs i ask concerning DOs say DOs are not seen as the same. they say only ppl who can't get into MD school go DO since it's easier, which is definitely true in most cases but surely not all. the girl i mentioned above turned down her MD interview b/c she was going DO. she's the only person i've come across who has openly chosen DO over MD. the other ppl i know in DO school currently didn't make it into their MD schools so settled with DO. i'm not trying to flame or anything, i'm just being honest.

the only good things i hear about DOs are from DOs who say they are better b/c they get an extra year of medical school from having the 1 year of natural medicine or whatever while they learn everything else MDs learn. i have a hard time believing this when everyone prefer sees MDs as better.

now, i know you can still practice medicine as a DO and it's not like a patient is gonna know the difference between a doctor with a DO and a doctor with an MD. it's sound like the main difference is just all about prestige among their peers. is this true?

can you guys debate the points above? i' have to decide what schools to apply to real soon and i need to know if i should be looking into osteopathic medicine as well as MD. thanks
 
The director of cardiology at UPenn is a DO.

I suspect this won't last long.
 
okay i understand more on DO vs MD now. clearly it doesnt affect how good of a doctor you are. HOWEVER, there are 2 things that are different and very important depending on how relative they are to you:

1) you get more prestige with an MD. however, doctors who get to know you and work with you probably think of you as good or bad doctor, not DO/MD. the whole prestige thing comes from the fact it is easier to get into osteopathy school than allopathic.

2) MDs are universally+internationally recognized. DOs are only within the US. so if you wanna do medical work abroad, you can't as a DO. a big deal to me since i do plan to do this at some point. so allopathic it is!
 
Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I mean really know?
 
tf2medic said:
i'm not trying to troll or anything.

here are a few things a MD cardiologist said to me. i was asking if i should apply to only allopathic or to both allo and osteo. he said you don't wanna be the DO for the following reasons:

-you're always thought of as a 2nd class citizen
-when trying to get your residency and competing with someone with same qualifications, the MD always wins over the DO
-his prior group which was a huge group made up of cardiologists and all other kinds of specialties (included 28 docs) had a no DO policy. they were only allowed to recruit MDs. the group's changed since then but still was shocked to hear it was a policy to not accept DOs before.
-DOs are not recognized internationally. only MDs are univeral. DO doesn't mean much outside the US.

also, an orthopedic surgeon came to my school yesterday to speak and a girl who is starting osteopathic school in the fall asked him how DOs go about getting into that speciality. he told her flatout in front of everyone "no DOs won't get a residency in this field. you need an MD." dannng buurnn! i don't know...all MDs i ask concerning DOs say DOs are not seen as the same. they say only ppl who can't get into MD school go DO since it's easier, which is definitely true in most cases but surely not all. the girl i mentioned above turned down her MD interview b/c she was going DO. she's the only person i've come across who has openly chosen DO over MD. the other ppl i know in DO school currently didn't make it into their MD schools so settled with DO. i'm not trying to flame or anything, i'm just being honest.

the only good things i hear about DOs are from DOs who say they are better b/c they get an extra year of medical school from having the 1 year of natural medicine or whatever while they learn everything else MDs learn. i have a hard time believing this when everyone prefer sees MDs as better.

now, i know you can still practice medicine as a DO and it's not like a patient is gonna know the difference between a doctor with a DO and a doctor with an MD. it's sound like the main difference is just all about prestige among their peers. is this true?

can you guys debate the points above? i' have to decide what schools to apply to real soon and i need to know if i should be looking into osteopathic medicine as well as MD. thanks
Click to expand...

Alright basically ... I had a great post here that was insulting, full of great zingers and basically rocked in every single way. I bizzurned the OP, answered all his points (with nice sarcasm and insults), and explained a thing or two about the DO degree. However, I didn't feel like taking the warning ... so, if the OP really wants me to debate all the points, please PM me. I don't feel as if I can answer in this thread without foaming at the mouth and killing your soul via pithy internet dissage. That is all.
 
theNEWgirl said:
which of the two school would you rather be in

School A
DO program
in state, 1 hr from home
$36,000 tuition
expensive cost of living
small ugly school (architecturally)
diverse student body

School B
MD program
out of state, midwest
$44,000 tuition
cheap cost of living
large beautiful school (architecturally)
not so diverse student body
Click to expand...

As much as i hate to say it, go with the M.D. if you can afford it.
The truth is, perception is sometimes more important than fact.
Also remember that you might change your mind about what residency you want. The M.D. letters might help you more.
 
tf2medic said:
okay i understand more on DO vs MD now. clearly it doesnt affect how good of a doctor you are. HOWEVER, there are 2 things that are different and very important depending on how relative they are to you:

1) you get more prestige with an MD. however, doctors who get to know you and work with you probably think of you as good or bad doctor, not DO/MD. the whole prestige thing comes from the fact it is easier to get into osteopathy school than allopathic.

2) MDs are universally+internationally recognized. DOs are only within the US. so if you wanna do medical work abroad, you can't as a DO. a big deal to me since i do plan to do this at some point. so allopathic it is!
Click to expand...

1) You get more prestige within the MD community. Patients and ancillary staff will tell you that they prefer DO's and believe they are more competent and compassionate physicians---just ask them.

2) Yes, there are certain countries that don't allow DO's to practice there. Most DO however.

Bottom line---if you are concerned about what MD's think about you OR want to practice in an obscure country, go to an MD school.

We don't want people with such small egos tarnishing the DO name anyway...
 
Patients and ancillary staff will tell you that they prefer DO's and believe they are more competent and compassionate physicians---just ask them.
Click to expand...

Rockford- you need to take it down a notch on the DO propaganda. You cant make blanket statements like that...
 
tf2medic said:
he told her flatout in front of everyone no DOs won't get a residency in this field. you need an MD."
Click to expand...

thats just flat out wrong.

tf2medic said:
they say only ppl who can't get into MD school go DO since it's easier, which is definitely true in most cases but surely not all. the girl i mentioned above turned down her MD interview b/c she was going DO. she's the only person i've come across who has openly chosen DO over MD.
Click to expand...

it happens more often than you think. its very possible I will choose DO over MD if i get accepted to both, for many reasons.
 
I happen to know a lot of students that CHOSE DO over MD acceptances.
 
tf2medic said:
okay i understand more on DO vs MD now. clearly it doesnt affect how good of a doctor you are. HOWEVER, there are 2 things that are different and very important depending on how relative they are to you:

1) you get more prestige with an MD. however, doctors who get to know you and work with you probably think of you as good or bad doctor, not DO/MD. the whole prestige thing comes from the fact it is easier to get into osteopathy school than allopathic.

2) MDs are universally+internationally recognized. DOs are only within the US. so if you wanna do medical work abroad, you can't as a DO. a big deal to me since i do plan to do this at some point. so allopathic it is!
Click to expand...

Pre-meds always seem to know so much information about medicine, and it's always completely wrong.
 
You're right RockfordWF. I also think this is a futile effort so let those premeds that are misinformed - or come here with an "agenda" (i.e. trolling), to quietly fall by the wayside. It's just not worth the frustration or aggravation. A large portion of these delusional premeds won't ever make it through the steps necessary in order to see what life is really like amongst physicians on the other side.
 
RockfordWF said:
Pre-meds always seem to know so much information about medicine, and it's always completely wrong.
Click to expand...

This is the biggest problem with the site. Honestly, I don't even know what makes it so but pre meds honestly throw in opinions on everything (I understand the irony of me throwing in my opinion of pre meds throwing their opinion on everything ...). It's lame because a lot of the times it screws with serious questions, and starts pointless, horribly unrealistic ideas like the MD vs DO type stuff.

It's funny how somone just passing by would read a post like 'DOs complete a year of natural medicine, can't pratcice internationally and are 2nd rate doctors' and have this affect them ... but in reality this statement was made by some 18 year old ***** who has taken two semesters of bio and gen chem and suddenly understands the complex workings of medicine in America. ALSO ... the best ever is the timeless pre med ' I have an uncle who works with a radiologist who says DOs are inferior' or 'I spoke with an MD who said I shouldn't apply to DO schools.' Those ones are just excellent ... and I find it funny that every attending I hear from on the site says they work with DOs everyday, don't think of them as anything less than an equal, and that the docs who do think this way are old and foolish.

The topic is just so absolutely absurd in a real world sense. Do people realize what being a doctor takes? A BS or BA, 4 years of medical school, possible internship, residency, possible fellowship ... etc etc. Do these people not realize the number of people in the world who don't even graduate high school??? Let alone obtain a college degree? Being worried what other people who have obtained your extreme level of success in life could potentially think about you is hilarious, but being worried that the average joe blow working in a cube is some how going to look down on you????? This only exists in the dark and scary mind of a pre med.
 
tf2medic said:
i'm not trying to troll or anything.

here are a few things a MD cardiologist said to me. i was asking if i should apply to only allopathic or to both allo and osteo. he said you don't wanna be the DO for the following reasons:

-you're always thought of as a 2nd class citizen
-when trying to get your residency and competing with someone with same qualifications, the MD always wins over the DO
-his prior group which was a huge group made up of cardiologists and all other kinds of specialties (included 28 docs) had a no DO policy. they were only allowed to recruit MDs. the group's changed since then but still was shocked to hear it was a policy to not accept DOs before.
-DOs are not recognized internationally. only MDs are univeral. DO doesn't mean much outside the US.

also, an orthopedic surgeon came to my school yesterday to speak and a girl who is starting osteopathic school in the fall asked him how DOs go about getting into that speciality. he told her flatout in front of everyone "no DOs won't get a residency in this field. you need an MD." dannng buurnn! i don't know...all MDs i ask concerning DOs say DOs are not seen as the same. they say only ppl who can't get into MD school go DO since it's easier, which is definitely true in most cases but surely not all. the girl i mentioned above turned down her MD interview b/c she was going DO. she's the only person i've come across who has openly chosen DO over MD. the other ppl i know in DO school currently didn't make it into their MD schools so settled with DO. i'm not trying to flame or anything, i'm just being honest.

the only good things i hear about DOs are from DOs who say they are better b/c they get an extra year of medical school from having the 1 year of natural medicine or whatever while they learn everything else MDs learn. i have a hard time believing this when everyone prefer sees MDs as better.

now, i know you can still practice medicine as a DO and it's not like a patient is gonna know the difference between a doctor with a DO and a doctor with an MD. it's sound like the main difference is just all about prestige among their peers. is this true?

can you guys debate the points above? i' have to decide what schools to apply to real soon and i need to know if i should be looking into osteopathic medicine as well as MD. thanks
Click to expand...

First off, if you're not trying to troll or anything, you're doing a horrific job of it.

If the doctor you shadowed actually said this my guess is he was probably born before the first world war. Possibly even before the civil war...

Also whether you attend an MD school or a DO school you're going to need to work on your writing skills, your lack of capitalization and the fact that this looks like a giant text message from a 13 year old girl makes me shudder. :scared:
 
J1515 said:
wrong, and.....



wrong

You're batting a thousand. Keep up the good work 👍
Click to expand...

i seem to like you so much more when you arent making me look like a fool.
 
Hey there,
I have a question...I dont understand why people look down on D.O. med schools...I LOVE the way Osteopathic medicine is and I think that it is the best route for me...but my parents are completely against it and I dont understand why...maybe its because of all the M.D. doctors they are friends with😀 Can you guys help me figure out how to explain to them that D.O. is just as good as M.D.? Ive been trying everything and still they are pushing me to go to M.D. and frankly I dont want too. Any help would be much appreciated 🙂
 
Right above your post is a sticky that covers these details. This is your life, not your parents. Unless they are paying the exorbitant amount of money for you to go to medical school, do what you want. Check the sticky above your thread for ammunition and tell them to bug off.
 
I agree with Bacchus. My brother's father and I got into a heated debate over thanksgiving about this because he thinks he's 'ALL KNOWING'. He argument was "DO's are not real doctors", and I simply said oh really well you might want to inform the OB/GYN, the radiologist, and hematologist that I shadowed that they are IN FACT not doctors but midlevels who make 250k-350k a year. LOL He shut the hell up then.:laugh: Ok back to the post, if you feel that going DO is what you want to do then don't worry about what other people say about your decision and that includes your family. You can't let someone who knows absolutely nothing about medicine sway you on your decision to become a doctor.
 
I agree with Bacchus. My brother's father and I got into a heated debate over thanksgiving about this because he thinks he's 'ALL KNOWING'. He argument was "DO's are not real doctors", and I simply said oh really well you might want to inform the OB/GYN, the radiologist, and hematologist that I shadowed that they are IN FACT not doctors but midlevels who make 250k-350k a year. LOL He shut the hell up then.:laugh: Ok back to the post, if you feel that going DO is what you want to do then don't worry about what other people say about your decision and that includes your family. You can't let someone who knows absolutely nothing about medicine sway you on your decision to become a doctor.
 
Why isn't this thread locked out yet?

Anyway, I'm probably going D.O. and my dad (an MD) has no problem with it. Medical school is medical school is medical school. Now kill the thread. For the love of god. Kill it.
 
Simply put, if your parents are against you becoming a DO, they're serious douchebags. Not kidding.

It's a good thing my parents aren't *******s like some of yours. Mine are thrilled that I've found something I enjoy. They're even MORE thrilled that I'm becoming any sort of "professional" . . . yeah, I'm an MD student, but if I was a DO student my parents would be just as happy. But that's because they have common sense.
 
planetvenus87 said:
Hey there,
I have a question...I dont understand why people look down on D.O. med schools...I LOVE the way Osteopathic medicine is and I think that it is the best route for me...but my parents are completely against it and I dont understand why...maybe its because of all the M.D. doctors they are friends with😀 Can you guys help me figure out how to explain to them that D.O. is just as good as M.D.? Ive been trying everything and still they are pushing me to go to M.D. and frankly I dont want too. Any help would be much appreciated 🙂
Click to expand...
My advice:

Shadow a DO. http://www.osteopathic.org/YOM/Mentor_exchange.htm

Then you won't care what anybody says.
 
PunkmedGirl said:
I agree with Bacchus. My brother's father and I got into a heated debate over thanksgiving about this because he thinks he's 'ALL KNOWING'. He argument was "DO's are not real doctors", and I simply said oh really well you might want to inform the OB/GYN, the radiologist, and hematologist that I shadowed that they are IN FACT not doctors but midlevels who make 250k-350k a year. LOL He shut the hell up then.:laugh: Ok back to the post, if you feel that going DO is what you want to do then don't worry about what other people say about your decision and that includes your family. You can't let someone who knows absolutely nothing about medicine sway you on your decision to become a doctor.
Click to expand...

Your brother's father?...

...Isn't that just your father? lol

My girlfriend's mother said the same thing to me - "DO's are not real doctors" (the audacity of some people!). However, I realized that there's no sense in debating with someone who is too stubborn to have an open mind (or who has no knowledge of the medical field).

I'm just lucky my brother is a DO. That cleared up a lot of issues for me in my family. 🙂
 
I'd assume her brother is a step-brother or half-brother.
 
LOL thanks so much for the replies guys!!! I truly appreciate it and I whole-heartedly agree with you on this issue. Na, I refuse to allow my parents to pay for my tuition for med school...HOWEVER...here is the best part...My father will only pay for school if I go to an MD school or dentistry!!! I just about died from laughing🙄 But I couldnt show that to them so I kept my mouth shut and told them that I dont want them to pay a dime for my school...so now I have to deal with money issues...Can someone get loans for their entire med school education?? I would probably be able to pay for my housing and all but school im not so sure...any tips?
 
and Yea, I would say that must be a step brother...
 
yes you can put all of your tuition on loans... but it will be painful. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to do this as well.
 
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