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Based on match lists it looks like Sackler does well in the match, better than any DO school. I can say though, that I have never met a Sackler grad on the interview trail.
MD vs DO vs Caribbean. Hard Facts and Statistics
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Based on match lists it looks like Sackler does well in the match, better than any DO school. I can say though, that I have never met a Sackler grad on the interview trail.
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I don't understand how this logic comes about? We are about to become full members of ACGME and you think we'll be seen as worse?
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I think they were asking if MD students being allowed to apply for AOA residency spots would mean that DO students would have a reduced chance of matching overall.
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Whatever the pressures, it is clearly not a mainstream way of becoming a resident in the US. I have already admitted that I do not know the match rates for many of these places, but my point is that for those considering doing such a thing, they need to have compelling information, not anecdotal such as what you've shared, that doing this is more beneficial than going DO. You haven't provided that.
I am not debating just to debate. I am trying to provide information to undergraduate students looking to make the best choice in regards to medical school. At this point, you've only used anecdotes and criticized my admittedly limited data. But is there better data out there? If so, there are thousands reading this forum who would probably be served well in seeing it. But if not, your conjecture is more likely to muddle the issue than clarify it.
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a) They're the same, except for OMM. MD and DO schools vary school to school, and some will have an integrated pre-clinical curriculum and others won't, but they will all cover the same material.
b) No. You will have more stable quality education based rotations at an MD school on average than at a DO. The lack of an affiliated large tertiary medical center for clinical rotations at DO schools make it difficult for rotations to be standardized. DO schools also tend to be in rural areas that generally have smaller hospitals and training centers.
Its not to say that you will not get good clinical education at DO schools, it'll just be more variable. Also, this is not exclusive to DO schools. Lower tier MD and MD schools that don't own a hospital may have similar variability in rotations.
Also to be clear, you will get a good medical education both MD and DO schools, which is why DOs enter into every field and work alongside MDs in virtually every major medical center in the country.
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deleted751949
Hi there,
Anyone have an opinion on going to a newer DO school in the states vs SGU? Thanks.
Anyone have an opinion on going to a newer DO school in the states vs SGU? Thanks.
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Did you bother to read any thread on this site or even do a basic search? No you didn't.
DO in the USA all day
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US MD > (any) DO > Carib. Please follow the mantra.
SGU's attrition is on the order of 25% vs. an 8% average for DOs (the worst being ~14%). Even then SGU's match and placement rates are still less than any DO school. Tuition and COL for going there is also at or higher than it would be at any DO school that I know of (you can even gain MI residence after a year at MSUCOM). Again, not saying you can't be successful there, just that the odds are stacked much more against you.
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Brand new DO school will still be better than SGU. Any DO school that would have an SGU-attrition rate like SGU would be shut down by COCA. And then sued.
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235009
To give an alternate perspective: I would recommend none of the above. If those are the only choices then maybe it's time to consider....
(1) whether it's worth taking the risk of failing out either because of a deficiency in your own ability or lack of support from a school that is still trying to figure stuff out (new DO) or a school that can only function if it routinely kicks out a large percentage of pre-clinical students because there aren't enough clinical rotation spots (SGU)
(2) whether you're ok with the significant limitation with regards to residency placement and your career in the future. The vast majority of students at these schools will either do community IM/FM/peds (IM in this case would most likely not be leading to sub-specialty) or one of the non-competitive specialties (psych, pm&r).
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AnatomyGrey12
To be fair, if these are your only options then you likely aren't the type of student who could get ortho or Derm. And even at a new DO school there are a few students who match into competative specialties, I would say your chances at something competative are still better at a new DO compared to the Carib
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I would argue that the chances are so vanishingly small coming from either that it is not even worth making the comparison.
Also with regards to "competitive" matches keep in mind that you are also locked out of desirable locations and the majority of top and mid tier programs in less competitive specialties (like IM and peds) coming from either of these places.
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Is it really? The match lists in average maybe similar, but the ceiling for DOs is still higher as a whole even from new schools. Below is the match list for Rocky Vista in 2013 (school opened in 2008). Show me one match list from any caribbean school in any year that rivals the some ceiling matches below (ceiling meaning competitive specialty and mid to mid upper tier programs in non-competitive/semi competitive fields). You may find a list that is close, but this one will still beat it.
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The AOA programs skew the results. If this question was being asked before the merger you may have an argument but with all programs becoming ACGME I suspect that the the outcomes from both DO and SGU are going to drift closer together. Also the argument for DO inevitably turns to the outliers and you guys ignore the 90% of matches that look exactly like those from SGU.
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Actually most of us on this thread acknowledge that 90% in the match list. As stated by AnatomyGrey12, these are people who would have never really reached to top to begin with because they potential wasn't that high to being with. We are not denying the DO and caribbean bias that is happening. This adds another barrier of pressure on top of many others.
However, we differ in the opinion that the ceiling is higher for DOs in general and opportunities to match are greater (even in new schools). This is including the ACGME match in my assessment as well. In the NRMP report of 2014, the vast majority of fields are willing to interview/rank DOs in general over caribbean graduates. I don't think they differentiate between DO schools when they pick their candidates.
There were a few amazing matches in the osteo sub forums a few months ago. I remember you stating that it wasn't the school that got them there, but their own individual efforts. I totally agree with you there and I think this reasoning also applies to those attending new schools. I will still say that going to a DO school, whether old or new, will still give you greater opportunities than the caribbean.
As to the issue of the merger, I cannot give a conclusive answer to your statement. What I believe will happen is that there will be a divide between certain competitive osteopathic students. The extremely competitive ones will apply as is and will match better than they have in the past, because they aren't pulled from the ACGME match. The semi-competitive ones might not try and this will push them into less competitive fields. There is also the fact that people put location as their top priority in matching. So they may have pulled from the "better" ACGME match because they matched into an AOA spot. In the end, it is difficult to speculate the possibilities. I still stand strong in the opinion that one will still do better in the long run from a new DO schools over a caribbean one (residency placement will still be better, even if in the worst case scenario that it drops a small degree post merger).
