V
Vet2B
I was just curious how many of you considered a MD before deciding to go for a DVM??
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Why is there always a verses symbol? We should put all the initials together and make a royal rumble 😉
Okay I had the opposite situation. I considered DVM for a long time since I was a little kid and quite recently decided to go for MD. There's not too many DVM schools out there and I would be saddened seeing a hurt animal or even doing research on animals. I can't stand the site of an animal in pain. It is paralyzing to me. When I saw a dog hit by a car once on the road I started crying. It is a totally different reaction that I get from when I see humans in pain. I feel more mobilized. I am not from the best of neighborhoods and I guess I built up a tolerance for the sight of human suffering at an earlier age than I could ever have for the suffering of animals...
I wanted to do Vet originally because I wanted to help animals and know that animals are very grateful when you help them... unlike humans sometimes... but I didn't like what it entailed. I have a cousin who is a Vet so no offense if I somehow offended anyone.
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if you cannot stand the sight of animals suffering in pain..then you shouldn't consider medical school, because they do painful research on animals all in the name of medicine. their response to try to validate that? "we get animals from shelters that would be put down anyways!"
my reply to that? "atleast they would get put down HUMANELY!!! 😡not tortured first, then killed!!!!!!!!!!"😡
my reply to that? "atleast they would get put down HUMANELY!!! 😡not tortured first, then killed!!!!!!!!!!"😡
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Either way. I won't be the one to do it nor would I put myself in a position to do it. I am totally against animal experimentation. I agree with Ghandi when he says: "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated".
Yeah that argument of theirs doesn't hold water. I think that there is a lot of research that is rather questionable and is totally inhumane.
I don't, however, see why you would say that medical school shouldn't be considered. There are a lot of students who are against animal vivisection in med school.
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Can you honestly tell me that there is no benefit to animal experimentation when it comes to the discovery of new drugs? Can you think of an alternative? AND don't say test on human because that isn't allowed by the government until pre-clinical trials are complete. If you don't believe in animal experimentation, then I should be able to assume you don't use medicine of any kind as that would be a conflict of interests. Are you a scientologist that doesn't believe in medicine, and that God will take care of everything?
Herp
Herp
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What kind of crazy, illogical contortions did your mind go through to come up with that?
I did not make any such claims. Would you rather me tell you something that you already know? You're already going through the argument like a think-tank. You quickly conceived of me into a scientologist who is pro-human testing, who is totally against animal testing and using the products of animal testing at whatever the cost. The main problem with your post is that your premise is off (secondary problems would include jumping to conclusions). I did not deny that good things have come from animal testing. My post is self-specific in that I would not want to put myself in that position to do that testing on animals. I think it's disgusting. Should I think any differently? Do you wish to claim that all animal testing out there is humane?
To ask you a question that is a bit more analogous to what I was getting at in my original post, answer me this: We need people to walk through the sewers and work on sewage treatment, but would YOU volunteer to do it?
Your projected response: Isn't unpolluted water a good thing? Oh please tell me you never drank water or used any products made with water!
Your Pal,
~Wilford Brimley
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FYI to Owl . . .
Not many med schools do dog labs for med students anymore. They've fallen out of favor because of the high cost, excellent new teaching tools that demonstrate the same principles, and the students' desire to not do the labs.
From what I've gathered (via friends who went to other med schools), it's fairly unusual to do any sort of live animal labs.
The use of animals in medical research is a long debated subject. A friend of mine is a Lab Animal Vet and she ensures that the animals in her facility are treated as humanely as possible.
Not many med schools do dog labs for med students anymore. They've fallen out of favor because of the high cost, excellent new teaching tools that demonstrate the same principles, and the students' desire to not do the labs.
From what I've gathered (via friends who went to other med schools), it's fairly unusual to do any sort of live animal labs.
The use of animals in medical research is a long debated subject. A friend of mine is a Lab Animal Vet and she ensures that the animals in her facility are treated as humanely as possible.
It's got to be less than 2-3% that still do dog labs, if that!
Well, I am the daughter of parents who are both DVM's and I chose to enter MD school. I will be graduating this May and could not be happier with the choice.
Through out High School I worked at my parent?s small animal practice and loved it, but never wanted to go the DVM route. Just did not sit quite right for me. I find science and medicine quite intriguing, but it was through volunteering at the local people Emergency Dept that I found what worked for me. I like the talking and educating part of medicine-this at times is more limited in vet med. I also found that how $ driven a lot of the decisions people make for their pets infuriating! (Not that insurance doesn't cause the people doc?s trouble). Lastly, while things may not be the same or I may have had some sort of misconception-I saw my parents work like dogs growing their small practice-every night one of the two of them was on call, rarely did our family have dinner together, my dad could not make it to my HS graduation b/c treatment rounds-I felt like a lot of DVM's go into private practice and that was not the kind of thing I was in for. There is SOME more lifestyle flexibility, eventually less call, and more choice in specialty by going the MD route.
So there's my story on the whole DVM vs MD thing-Hope it helps some of you guys looking around.
-B
Also-Please no more research animal?s rights stuff on this Post it has nothing to do with the original ? Plus, medical research is medical research- it works for animal and people health and is done at both DVM and MD schools-so make a separate post for medical research if it is a subject you are interested in.
Through out High School I worked at my parent?s small animal practice and loved it, but never wanted to go the DVM route. Just did not sit quite right for me. I find science and medicine quite intriguing, but it was through volunteering at the local people Emergency Dept that I found what worked for me. I like the talking and educating part of medicine-this at times is more limited in vet med. I also found that how $ driven a lot of the decisions people make for their pets infuriating! (Not that insurance doesn't cause the people doc?s trouble). Lastly, while things may not be the same or I may have had some sort of misconception-I saw my parents work like dogs growing their small practice-every night one of the two of them was on call, rarely did our family have dinner together, my dad could not make it to my HS graduation b/c treatment rounds-I felt like a lot of DVM's go into private practice and that was not the kind of thing I was in for. There is SOME more lifestyle flexibility, eventually less call, and more choice in specialty by going the MD route.
So there's my story on the whole DVM vs MD thing-Hope it helps some of you guys looking around.
-B
Also-Please no more research animal?s rights stuff on this Post it has nothing to do with the original ? Plus, medical research is medical research- it works for animal and people health and is done at both DVM and MD schools-so make a separate post for medical research if it is a subject you are interested in.
I am a second year vet student. I never seriously considered human medicine. Two main reasons: 1) I can't stand the sight of human blood. 2) There are too many human diseases (i.e. HIV )that you come in contact with on a daily basis. Rabies is probably the worst thing we come in contact with and at least you can vaccinate for that.
I'm one of the people who usually looks at all the posts but rarely post any of my own messages. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I've viewed this message board (the DVM one). I have some relevant input for those of you who are interested. I went to Vet school and graduated in 1998. I practiced for 3 and 1/2 years. The first two years were on a horse farm in KY, with the rest at a small animal facility in FL. Most people would have considered my first job a dream job. A resident vet (I was the associate but my boss did not live on the farm) on a large breeding farm that had been in existence since Washington was in the White House. I was never happy with what I was doing and I always felt regret about not having gone to Med school. After my first year in practice I decided to go back to Med school. There was a significant delay because of the lead time for the MCAT and applications/interviews and all of this could not start until my wife and I moved back to FL. I am now 1/2 way through my 3rd year of Med school and I love it. I have never woken up one day and regretted my decision. I'm also fortunate to have an understanding wife who has a great career of her own.
Let me be very clear. I did not switch because being a vet is not a noble profession or because the money was not good enough. I have many friends who do well as vets and love their jobs. Most thought I was crazy for wanting to go through all of the insanity that being in a professional school entails, for a second time. I switched because there is some thought/Idea/feeling deep inside of me that told me I would never be happy unless I was a M.D. surgeon. I have worked almost as long hours in Med school as I did as a vet (Iworked extremely long hours during the breeding season, some weeks 100+) but in med school it has never bothered me. We are all individuals and this is a very personal choice. Some people would only be happy as Vets, some as either, and some would only be happy as M.D.'s. The work and the lifestyles are very different, I cannnot emphasize this enough. You have to see which fits you the best. The majority of people can figure this out by being exposed to the different professions if they are unsure. Some people, like me will find out the hard way. However, if I could go back, I don't think I would do anything differently because I ahve had experiences that others can only dream about and since I went to state schools, I will come out of med school with no more debt than someone who only went to a private med school.
Let me be very clear. I did not switch because being a vet is not a noble profession or because the money was not good enough. I have many friends who do well as vets and love their jobs. Most thought I was crazy for wanting to go through all of the insanity that being in a professional school entails, for a second time. I switched because there is some thought/Idea/feeling deep inside of me that told me I would never be happy unless I was a M.D. surgeon. I have worked almost as long hours in Med school as I did as a vet (Iworked extremely long hours during the breeding season, some weeks 100+) but in med school it has never bothered me. We are all individuals and this is a very personal choice. Some people would only be happy as Vets, some as either, and some would only be happy as M.D.'s. The work and the lifestyles are very different, I cannnot emphasize this enough. You have to see which fits you the best. The majority of people can figure this out by being exposed to the different professions if they are unsure. Some people, like me will find out the hard way. However, if I could go back, I don't think I would do anything differently because I ahve had experiences that others can only dream about and since I went to state schools, I will come out of med school with no more debt than someone who only went to a private med school.
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Could you go into more detail about why you switched? Was it wanting more of a relationship with your patients, respect, more opportunity? I'm asking, because these are the questions I'm asking myself in deciding what path to take. There are pros and cons to both fields, and while only I can make that choice, any input is appreciated. Thanks!
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I am currently trying to decide between the two careers. I have been accepted to several Osteopathic schools thus far and have several Allopathic interviews completed and upcoming. I anticipate the Vet interviews to begin in January to February. Some days my ambitions are whole-heartily directed toward medical school. Yet, on other days, I think about how much I enjoy spending time with my future wife, hiking, reading and experiencing life. I feel that if I go into the human medical field that I will be very limited for quite awhile with my time. Not only will I have to spend four years in school, but five years in residency, as I am interested in surgery and then most of my time performing surgery for the first several years so as to make a name for myself in the practice and prove myself to my surgery partners. On the other hand, I would love to perform surgery on humans and have the interactions that are absent in veterinary medicine. Although I will get positive feedback from the pets owners. In veterinary medicine I could finish my four years, practice for two years and then go into the surgery residency, which lasts about three years. Throughout the process I will have much more free time to the other things I enjoy that make me well rounded.
Southern,
I see you have applied once already. Was that last year and how many schools did you apply too? Are you applying again this year and if so are you also applying to medical school concomitantly? What is your top choice?
Herp
Southern,
I see you have applied once already. Was that last year and how many schools did you apply too? Are you applying again this year and if so are you also applying to medical school concomitantly? What is your top choice?
Herp
Southern, for me, it was mostly about the interactions with other people. I also missed the feeling that I was doing something good for the community. People can make arguments that you can do this in either field and none would be absolutley wrong, but for me, I needed to believe that I was helping others and I needed to interact with other people. The doctor -patient relationship is a powerful interaction and it helps to motivate me. Even though I still have animals and will always consider myself an animal lover, I personally needed to work in human medicine. Once I realized this was the case, it really didn't matter how long it would take or how difficult it would be. I knew that this is what I wanted to do and I would do it. Granted there are time and money considerations if you are older but I was still young enough to switch. I don't know if this helps. The problem is that it is very difficult to put these abstract ideas and feelings into words and that these are very personal and individual choices. Sometimes we need to experience these things on our own. I think that of the people who decide to go into one of these professions there are people who would only be happy as a M.D., as either a M.D. or D.V.M., or only happy as a D.V.M.. I realized later that I was in the first category. We all have unique backgrounds and unique personalities and happiness will be found for each of us in different places. My only final advice is that if something doesen't "feel" right don't necessarily think it will get better as you get further into it.
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Herp and DVM/MD--thanks for the replies! Thoughtful and helpful!
Herp--I applied last year (for the 2003 entering class) only to my in-state vet school (came "within a few points"🙁 ). I'm not applying on this cycle, but planning to do so on the next. Right now, I'm planning on applying to 4-5 vet schools and 5-6 med schools at the same time 😱 --I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but I think it's the best for me right now. I think I fall into the "could be happy as either" category. I'm getting ready to do some medical shadowing, so hopefully that will push me one way or the other. I'm allowing myself two more app cycles, and then I'm pursuing other options--possibly forensics (CSI, here I come! 😀 ). I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!!
And to anyone wondering--no, I'm not as flaky as that all sounded!
😛
Herp--I applied last year (for the 2003 entering class) only to my in-state vet school (came "within a few points"🙁 ). I'm not applying on this cycle, but planning to do so on the next. Right now, I'm planning on applying to 4-5 vet schools and 5-6 med schools at the same time 😱 --I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but I think it's the best for me right now. I think I fall into the "could be happy as either" category. I'm getting ready to do some medical shadowing, so hopefully that will push me one way or the other. I'm allowing myself two more app cycles, and then I'm pursuing other options--possibly forensics (CSI, here I come! 😀 ). I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!!
And to anyone wondering--no, I'm not as flaky as that all sounded!
😛
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Southern,
Why did you only apply to your state school the first time? Have you taken the MCAT and did you do as well as you had hoped? Have you decided which VET and Medical schools you are going to apply too yet? What have you done to improve your chances of acceptance seeing as how you missed it by a few points? The University of Missouri look easier to gain acceptance too than other schools simply because they only receive about 200-250 applications compared with the 1000-1500 that MSU and CSU receive. Is your state school your top choice? How are you going to decide between the two?
As of yet I have only heard from UPenn which asked for my GPA and animal interests and WSU that let me logon to a website that details my application. I anticipate hearing from MSU next week as to whether I will receive a secondary or not. Hopefully by the end of January I should have several interview offers.
Herp
Why did you only apply to your state school the first time? Have you taken the MCAT and did you do as well as you had hoped? Have you decided which VET and Medical schools you are going to apply too yet? What have you done to improve your chances of acceptance seeing as how you missed it by a few points? The University of Missouri look easier to gain acceptance too than other schools simply because they only receive about 200-250 applications compared with the 1000-1500 that MSU and CSU receive. Is your state school your top choice? How are you going to decide between the two?
As of yet I have only heard from UPenn which asked for my GPA and animal interests and WSU that let me logon to a website that details my application. I anticipate hearing from MSU next week as to whether I will receive a secondary or not. Hopefully by the end of January I should have several interview offers.
Herp
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Herpeto,
My in-state said (at the time) that I would have my best chance with them. Of course, now almost every school has upped their non-resident acceptances, so next time I'll diversify. I took the MCAT (never did do the GRE), and did well. I'm currently doing a master's program as my final "boost"--if this doesn't impress them, nothing will! 😛
On the next round, the vet schools I like are in the south and midwest--LSU, Georga, NC, VA, FL, WI, Michigan, and now Missouri is sounding nice too! The problem I'm encountering with vet apps is there's not a standard pre-requisite across schools. For instance, one school wants 6 hrs of business (don't have it!), another wants 6 hrs of nutrition (nope!), some want GRE, some GRE+subject tests. At least the med schools are pretty standardized! For those, probably the LSUs, U South Alabama, the Texas schools, and maybe Wisconsin.
Good luck with the waiting game--I think that's the hardest part! If it helps, I didn't get my interview invite until January, and a final answer until late March.
My in-state said (at the time) that I would have my best chance with them. Of course, now almost every school has upped their non-resident acceptances, so next time I'll diversify. I took the MCAT (never did do the GRE), and did well. I'm currently doing a master's program as my final "boost"--if this doesn't impress them, nothing will! 😛
On the next round, the vet schools I like are in the south and midwest--LSU, Georga, NC, VA, FL, WI, Michigan, and now Missouri is sounding nice too! The problem I'm encountering with vet apps is there's not a standard pre-requisite across schools. For instance, one school wants 6 hrs of business (don't have it!), another wants 6 hrs of nutrition (nope!), some want GRE, some GRE+subject tests. At least the med schools are pretty standardized! For those, probably the LSUs, U South Alabama, the Texas schools, and maybe Wisconsin.
Good luck with the waiting game--I think that's the hardest part! If it helps, I didn't get my interview invite until January, and a final answer until late March.
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Although some of the schools have those requirements, you may want to contact the admissions office to see if a class can be waived or substituted since you have a Master's degree. I applied to Purdue, which requires a nutrition class that I don't have, however they stated that my file would be reviewed without the class. Just an idea.
Also, at some schools you can substitute the MCAT for the GRE. Are you taking the GRE anyway? All of the Vet schools I applied to said they won't send out interview invites until late January and acceptances in March to April.
Herp
Also, at some schools you can substitute the MCAT for the GRE. Are you taking the GRE anyway? All of the Vet schools I applied to said they won't send out interview invites until late January and acceptances in March to April.
Herp
Hey-
Perhaps DVM/MD will have a little more imput-But as for the quality of life thing-
The four years of MD/DO programs and DVM programs will take a significant amount of your free time and will be pretty comparable.
So many people go into med school thinking that they want to do one specialty and end up changing to another-So basing the whole DVM/MD thing on a surgeon?s lifestyle may be sending you down the wrong track. Also, keep in mind that for all medical residencies there is an 80 hr work rule, it is making things quite a bit different. I do not think that there is anything like this in place in Vet med.
I can say after watching my parents (DVM's) that they tend to put in a whole lot more hours then most MD?s. My mother tends to do more surgery then a lot of MD surgeons, but she's happy and doing what she loves, so it does not matter.
Bottom line is that you make time for things that matter in your life. MD and DVM are two very different areas; take the time to get to know both so you can make this decision.
Hope that maybe this helps some-
B
Hi from New Zealand 🙂 I didn't seriously consider human med before starting vet school...but I'm nearly halfway through vet school and am seriously considering it now...does that make me really nutty?? 😉
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No. There are many people who change their careers after beginning the training for another. For instance, I attained an MS and then began work on a PhD before deciding that that career wasn't what I wanted. It is better to make the change now than ten years down the road when you may not be that enthused about attending school. Are you thinking of applying next year? Would you stay in New Zealand or train international?
Herp
Herp
You're right. 🙂 I guess I just can't help wondering about my sanity when I think of the huge commitment I'm heading towards...
I'm lucky though-in NZ both vet and med courses are undergrad, so I'll only be 23 when I finish vet school, and education is relatively cheap here.
I will almost definitely stay in NZ, much as I'd like to go overseas, because it makes a whole lot more financial sense. Plus, admission to the med school I would apply to requires climbing through far fewer hoops than other schools, especially overseas ones!
If I don't "grow out of" this, or get otherwise put off, I will probably apply to start in 2007 or 2008, as I want to finish vet school and possibly work for a year to get some experience, and try pay off some of my loan. I figure if I can at least get a qualification, I'll be able to work during summers at least and get reasonable pay. Also, I am really loving vet school, and I'm the kind of person that has to finish what I started
It's funny really. (Funny weird, I mean.) I was so sure that being a vet was exactly the right thing for me. I love the course, I think I'd be a happy vet...but I'm starting to realise it might not be quite enough. I want the human patient- doctor relationship and I want to have a far more direct effect on human health
than I would/will as a vet.
I was really shy at school, which is mainly why I never seriously considered medicine until recently. (Deciding to do vet was a bit of a leap of faith for me-I worked on the theory that by the time I finished vet schol, I'd be far more confident..it worked already.
) I think vet school will be, and has already been, the stepping stone that I needed.
I guess with experience I'm learning more about my strengths and what will give me job satisfaction
By the way, I agreed with your post earlier re animal experimentation.👍 I definitely don't like animal experimentation, but I realise it's a necessary evil. Thankfully, at least here in NZ 😉 people are trying to prevent unnecessary animal suffering while still doing necessary research...it's called compromise I guess. Sorry for preaching to the converted...it just bugs me when people try and turn grey issues into black and white.
So do you know which way you're going yet???
I'm lucky though-in NZ both vet and med courses are undergrad, so I'll only be 23 when I finish vet school, and education is relatively cheap here.
I will almost definitely stay in NZ, much as I'd like to go overseas, because it makes a whole lot more financial sense. Plus, admission to the med school I would apply to requires climbing through far fewer hoops than other schools, especially overseas ones!
If I don't "grow out of" this, or get otherwise put off, I will probably apply to start in 2007 or 2008, as I want to finish vet school and possibly work for a year to get some experience, and try pay off some of my loan. I figure if I can at least get a qualification, I'll be able to work during summers at least and get reasonable pay. Also, I am really loving vet school, and I'm the kind of person that has to finish what I started
It's funny really. (Funny weird, I mean.) I was so sure that being a vet was exactly the right thing for me. I love the course, I think I'd be a happy vet...but I'm starting to realise it might not be quite enough. I want the human patient- doctor relationship and I want to have a far more direct effect on human health
than I would/will as a vet.
I was really shy at school, which is mainly why I never seriously considered medicine until recently. (Deciding to do vet was a bit of a leap of faith for me-I worked on the theory that by the time I finished vet schol, I'd be far more confident..it worked already.
) I think vet school will be, and has already been, the stepping stone that I needed.I guess with experience I'm learning more about my strengths and what will give me job satisfaction
By the way, I agreed with your post earlier re animal experimentation.👍 I definitely don't like animal experimentation, but I realise it's a necessary evil. Thankfully, at least here in NZ 😉 people are trying to prevent unnecessary animal suffering while still doing necessary research...it's called compromise I guess. Sorry for preaching to the converted...it just bugs me when people try and turn grey issues into black and white.
So do you know which way you're going yet???
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That's great that you will only be 23 when you graduate. Are you still considered a doctor then? Are you able to practice in the states with a veterinary degree from NZ? Forgive my ignorance on the subject. Here we must finish four years of undergraduate work and then four more years of vet or medical school before we can practice. Now graduating from vet school you can either go straight into practice or do a two-year internship and then 2-3 year residency in some specific specialty. On the other hand, in human medicine once we finish the additional four years we complete a 3-5 year residency and then a 2-3 year fellowship depending on the specialty. If one wanted to be a family doctor they only need to put in the three-year residency. Since I want to do either general surgery, CT surgery or cardiology I will be in residency/fellowships for at least five years after the fours years of courses. As of yet I have not decided on a career, but my goal is to decide by the end of April. By then I should know my status at all the medical schools and veterinary schools. I am hoping to have an array of locations to select from.
Herp
Herp
We don't get the title "doctor" here, same as in the UK, because "Doctor" isn't included in the name of our degree as it's called a Bachelor, being undergrad. But our course is AVMA accredited so we can practise in the US, and I believe if we're registered to practise in the US that we can call ourselves "doctor" so we're sort of on the same level as US vets. (Actually there are a few threads about this on the about.com pre-vet and career forum...very interesting 😉 )
Seems a bit rough to me that you guys have to do some years undergrad before doing what you really want to do, but I guess it gives you more time to find out what you really want, and gives you the chance to take subjects you're interested in rather than being restricted straight away.
As far as what happens after graduation, we're pretty much the same as the US I think, at least in human med, but vet might be lagging behind a bit in that it's not very common here to do internships and residencies...we only have one vet school and teaching hospital total, and I don't think there are heaps of very large practices around, not sure though.
I hope you do have plenty of locations to choose from 👍 and that what you settle on gives you heaps of job satisfaction!! Good luck!
Sorry, a question...out of interest, why do you want to do surgery specifically??
Seems a bit rough to me that you guys have to do some years undergrad before doing what you really want to do, but I guess it gives you more time to find out what you really want, and gives you the chance to take subjects you're interested in rather than being restricted straight away.
As far as what happens after graduation, we're pretty much the same as the US I think, at least in human med, but vet might be lagging behind a bit in that it's not very common here to do internships and residencies...we only have one vet school and teaching hospital total, and I don't think there are heaps of very large practices around, not sure though.
I hope you do have plenty of locations to choose from 👍 and that what you settle on gives you heaps of job satisfaction!!
Good luck!Sorry, a question...out of interest, why do you want to do surgery specifically??
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Anna,
I currently intend on becoming a surgeon because I feel it is one of the more rigorous and intellectually/physically-challenging specialties one can do. I hold myself to very high standards and feel it necessary to take on the additional responsibility and commitment seeing as how I am already going to be a doctor. I very rarely compare myself to the accomplishments of others, unless they are geniuses. Certainly not to say I am, it is just that for some reason the unexplained abilities of the most profound thinkers are very intriguing to me. When I compare my accomplishment to theirs', it motivates me to do more. Some would argue that becoming a doctor is already an accomplishment in and of itself. Well, for some it may be, however, I have never really seen my degrees or awards etc.. as achievements. Rather, I have used them as a motivator to push beyond what I have already done. For these reasons, I shall constantly push my intellectual and physical boundaries while almost never taking enjoyment from the theoretical endpoints (i.e. degrees). In addition, I have performed surgery on animals before and found it satisfying.
Herp
I currently intend on becoming a surgeon because I feel it is one of the more rigorous and intellectually/physically-challenging specialties one can do. I hold myself to very high standards and feel it necessary to take on the additional responsibility and commitment seeing as how I am already going to be a doctor. I very rarely compare myself to the accomplishments of others, unless they are geniuses. Certainly not to say I am, it is just that for some reason the unexplained abilities of the most profound thinkers are very intriguing to me. When I compare my accomplishment to theirs', it motivates me to do more. Some would argue that becoming a doctor is already an accomplishment in and of itself. Well, for some it may be, however, I have never really seen my degrees or awards etc.. as achievements. Rather, I have used them as a motivator to push beyond what I have already done. For these reasons, I shall constantly push my intellectual and physical boundaries while almost never taking enjoyment from the theoretical endpoints (i.e. degrees). In addition, I have performed surgery on animals before and found it satisfying.
Herp
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I often wish that I had stayed with my original love and gone to vet school instead of medical school. It certainly is amazing how in retrospect people subconsciously try to push you into what they feel is the "better" way to go.
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What is it, specifically, that makes you wish you had pursued vet medicine? I'm weighing the pros and cons for each.
Just curious.
Just curious.
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It comes down to simple self-fulfillment. Medical school is a long, tortuous process which with endless hours of studying and stress. Just when you think it gets better when you can start your clinical rotation in 3rd year, you are treated like crap by everyone around you for years, into residency with no seeming end in sight.
Without a doubt, physicians are the most personality disordered, unrelentlessly obnoxious, noxious humans you can spend time with.
The money, however, is better if you can survive this gauntlet of sociopathic maniacal training.
Without a doubt, physicians are the most personality disordered, unrelentlessly obnoxious, noxious humans you can spend time with.
The money, however, is better if you can survive this gauntlet of sociopathic maniacal training.
I too thought about switching to vet med. (I'm a second year med student). I originally would have really liked to go into vet school, but I really can't handle seeing animals being mistreated. (Not that I can see humans being mistreated, but there's a lot more laws against that, and fewer people to speak out for the animals). I also would like to work in other countries, and human medicine is much easier to travel with. Furthermore, I think I was "pushed" into human med much more than vet med. Also, vet school is harder to get into.
I still love human medicine though. There are so many amazing fields you can go into, and ways you can someone's life just a little bit better, it really is inspiring. I don't agree with a post earlier in this thread where the person said that by only helping animals, she didn't feel like she was contibuting to solving world problems. Animals need help just as much as we do! They're part of this world too! There's less people to help them out then there are people helping out humans.
Either way, you are going to be stuck studying from books your 1st few years. (I don't think that I could do that again- very painful for a once very active person). I think I'll have to deal with a hell of a lot more paperwork in my field, and I sure as hell am not looking forward to dealing with insurance companies who think that 15 minutes with a patient is enough to really help them. I'm going to try to avoid all the crap in human medicine by working in rural/mountainous areas- where you can do a lot more than the average city doc, and where you will get to know your patients.
As far as the whole malpractice thing going on in the US, at least an animal won't sue you for trying to help them. I plan on working in underserved areas where people may appreciate me a little more!
Good luck!
I still love human medicine though. There are so many amazing fields you can go into, and ways you can someone's life just a little bit better, it really is inspiring. I don't agree with a post earlier in this thread where the person said that by only helping animals, she didn't feel like she was contibuting to solving world problems. Animals need help just as much as we do! They're part of this world too! There's less people to help them out then there are people helping out humans.
Either way, you are going to be stuck studying from books your 1st few years. (I don't think that I could do that again- very painful for a once very active person). I think I'll have to deal with a hell of a lot more paperwork in my field, and I sure as hell am not looking forward to dealing with insurance companies who think that 15 minutes with a patient is enough to really help them. I'm going to try to avoid all the crap in human medicine by working in rural/mountainous areas- where you can do a lot more than the average city doc, and where you will get to know your patients.
As far as the whole malpractice thing going on in the US, at least an animal won't sue you for trying to help them. I plan on working in underserved areas where people may appreciate me a little more!
Good luck!
I too thought about switching to vet med. (I'm a second year med student). I originally would have really liked to go into vet school, but I really can't handle seeing animals being mistreated. (Not that I can see humans being mistreated, but there's a lot more laws against that, and fewer people to speak out for the animals). I also would like to work in other countries, and human medicine is much easier to travel with. Furthermore, I think I was "pushed" into human med much more than vet med. Also, vet school is harder to get into.
I still love human medicine though. There are so many amazing fields you can go into, and ways you can someone's life just a little bit better, it really is inspiring. I don't agree with a post earlier in this thread where the person said that by only helping animals, she didn't feel like she was contibuting to solving world problems. Animals need help just as much as we do! They're part of this world too! There's less people to help them out then there are people helping out humans.
Either way, you are going to be stuck studying from books your 1st few years. (I don't think that I could do that again- very painful for a once very active person). Anasazi is right when he says that physicians are the most personality disordered people on earth. I like about 1/2 my class, but as for the other half- I have never met so many arrogent people in my life. I don't understand how they could become good doctors when they don't know the first thing about listening to anyone else other than themselves speak. I think I'll have to deal with a hell of a lot more paperwork in my field, and I sure as hell am not looking forward to dealing with insurance companies who think that 15 minutes with a patient is enough to really help them. I'm going to try to avoid all the crap in human medicine by working in rural/mountainous areas- where you can do a lot more than the average city doc, and where you will get to know your patients.
As far as the whole malpractice thing going on in the US, at least an animal won't sue you for trying to help them. I plan on working in underserved areas where people may appreciate me a little more!
Good luck!
I still love human medicine though. There are so many amazing fields you can go into, and ways you can someone's life just a little bit better, it really is inspiring. I don't agree with a post earlier in this thread where the person said that by only helping animals, she didn't feel like she was contibuting to solving world problems. Animals need help just as much as we do! They're part of this world too! There's less people to help them out then there are people helping out humans.
Either way, you are going to be stuck studying from books your 1st few years. (I don't think that I could do that again- very painful for a once very active person). Anasazi is right when he says that physicians are the most personality disordered people on earth. I like about 1/2 my class, but as for the other half- I have never met so many arrogent people in my life. I don't understand how they could become good doctors when they don't know the first thing about listening to anyone else other than themselves speak. I think I'll have to deal with a hell of a lot more paperwork in my field, and I sure as hell am not looking forward to dealing with insurance companies who think that 15 minutes with a patient is enough to really help them. I'm going to try to avoid all the crap in human medicine by working in rural/mountainous areas- where you can do a lot more than the average city doc, and where you will get to know your patients.
As far as the whole malpractice thing going on in the US, at least an animal won't sue you for trying to help them. I plan on working in underserved areas where people may appreciate me a little more!
Good luck!
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Thank you, La Fiera, and Anasazi23 for your thoughtful posts in regards to vet medicine versus human medicine. It's very interesting to hear it from a med student's perspective.
Best of luck to you.
Best of luck to you.
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My apologies for the delayed response. I have been quite busy as of recent and haven't been on the site.
Well I haven't decided on whether to attend medical school or veterinary school yet. I am still waiting to hear from several schools post interview and monitoring how my position changes on a couple of waitlists. My conundrum is this: To me, working in a typical veterinary clinic is not stimulating enough to warrant my attendance at vet school. However, if I consider a specialty, then I could see myself as a vet. I don't want to deal with repetitive fecal tests and vaccinations. I would much rather have other clinics take care of the overhead, and I simply come by weekly to perform the surgeries. I have also heard that radiology is an enjoyable lifestyle. You can simply have radiographs sent to wherever you may be. Plus the hours are great and the pay is adequate.
On the other hand, I am excited about performing surgery on humans too. The interaction you get with patients a bit different and more involved. With the new 80-hour work week the residency should be easy. Plus, it pays much better than vet medicine. The downfall would have to be paperwork, insurance companies and malpractice. If I were to attend medical school, I would definitely go back and attain a PhD in Herpetology at the age of 50. By then I should be financially secure enough to work very part time, if at all, and focus on by true passion.
Herp
Well I haven't decided on whether to attend medical school or veterinary school yet. I am still waiting to hear from several schools post interview and monitoring how my position changes on a couple of waitlists. My conundrum is this: To me, working in a typical veterinary clinic is not stimulating enough to warrant my attendance at vet school. However, if I consider a specialty, then I could see myself as a vet. I don't want to deal with repetitive fecal tests and vaccinations. I would much rather have other clinics take care of the overhead, and I simply come by weekly to perform the surgeries. I have also heard that radiology is an enjoyable lifestyle. You can simply have radiographs sent to wherever you may be. Plus the hours are great and the pay is adequate.
On the other hand, I am excited about performing surgery on humans too. The interaction you get with patients a bit different and more involved. With the new 80-hour work week the residency should be easy. Plus, it pays much better than vet medicine. The downfall would have to be paperwork, insurance companies and malpractice. If I were to attend medical school, I would definitely go back and attain a PhD in Herpetology at the age of 50. By then I should be financially secure enough to work very part time, if at all, and focus on by true passion.
Herp
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🙄 Huh?
Are you for real, Herpeto?
What do you mean by "working in a veterinary clinic is not stimulating enough to warrant my attendance at vet school"? Hate to tell you, but specialists have to do scutwork, too.
By all means, please go to medical school. Maybe you can practice boutique medicine or surgery when you are done with your internship and residency. I would love to see the faces of nurses and attendings when you tell them you don't do scutwork.
It's obvious you're incredibly naive. Choose vet school and you will be in for a long and dirty ride! Choosing a specialty internship/residency in vet school involves a rather low-paying, hard working job.
Either way, you better learn to bend over and enjoy taking it! You seem to have a surgeon-mentality without the experience to back it up.
Are you for real, Herpeto?
What do you mean by "working in a veterinary clinic is not stimulating enough to warrant my attendance at vet school"? Hate to tell you, but specialists have to do scutwork, too.
By all means, please go to medical school. Maybe you can practice boutique medicine or surgery when you are done with your internship and residency. I would love to see the faces of nurses and attendings when you tell them you don't do scutwork.
It's obvious you're incredibly naive. Choose vet school and you will be in for a long and dirty ride! Choosing a specialty internship/residency in vet school involves a rather low-paying, hard working job.
Either way, you better learn to bend over and enjoy taking it! You seem to have a surgeon-mentality without the experience to back it up.
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Loo,
Don't misconstrue my comments to mean that I don't want to do crap work. I was simply stating that I don't want to see cases over and over when I just do physical exams, vaccines, spays and neuters. Just as in human medicine, I don?t want to be a family practitioner because much of work is simply referrals. This is not to say they don?t partake in other cases. And by the way, I know quite a bit about veterinary medicine, schools, internships and residencies. My fianc?e is finishing vet school in two months and we have several friends in residencies, internships and practice. I am completely aware that I will have to perform a plethora of tasks for minimal pay with long hours while in school and residency. I know exactly what they make and how may hours they work. So please make sure you know the facts before developing an accusatory tone.
Herp
Don't misconstrue my comments to mean that I don't want to do crap work. I was simply stating that I don't want to see cases over and over when I just do physical exams, vaccines, spays and neuters. Just as in human medicine, I don?t want to be a family practitioner because much of work is simply referrals. This is not to say they don?t partake in other cases. And by the way, I know quite a bit about veterinary medicine, schools, internships and residencies. My fianc?e is finishing vet school in two months and we have several friends in residencies, internships and practice. I am completely aware that I will have to perform a plethora of tasks for minimal pay with long hours while in school and residency. I know exactly what they make and how may hours they work. So please make sure you know the facts before developing an accusatory tone.
Herp
What is your true passion? And what are you talking about getting a pHD in "Herpetology?"
There is no life in med school at all!!!
Just so you know, despite the fact that it is supposedly "illegal" to work residents more than 80 hrs a week, believe me, it still goes on in surgery. They get around it by making the residents do extra hrs for "lecture time". I have friends who experienced this first hand. There's no way the hrs are going to be honestly cut down below 80 any time soon especially in surgery- and especially because its one of the hardest fields to get into.
As for family medicine, not all practising docs refer their pts out. If you live in a small town, or any rural area, then you are the FP and all the specialists in one.
There is no life in med school at all!!!
Just so you know, despite the fact that it is supposedly "illegal" to work residents more than 80 hrs a week, believe me, it still goes on in surgery. They get around it by making the residents do extra hrs for "lecture time". I have friends who experienced this first hand. There's no way the hrs are going to be honestly cut down below 80 any time soon especially in surgery- and especially because its one of the hardest fields to get into.
As for family medicine, not all practising docs refer their pts out. If you live in a small town, or any rural area, then you are the FP and all the specialists in one.
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What facts? It's my OPINION and I stand by it.
Sorry, but reading your posts is analagous to listening to pre-meds agonize over...Harvard or Yale?
😴
I bear you no ill will. Good luck with your dilemma. I sincerely hope you will always have enough intellectual challenges to keep you stimulated.
Regards,
loo
😀
Sorry, but reading your posts is analagous to listening to pre-meds agonize over...Harvard or Yale?
😴
I bear you no ill will. Good luck with your dilemma. I sincerely hope you will always have enough intellectual challenges to keep you stimulated.
Regards,
loo
😀
I currently just made the decision to attend med school. I had gotten accepted to MSU vet school and Wayne State's med school. I chose med school, because I had an interest in sports medicine. I love working at the vet's where I work and I also love animals very much, but I know by going to med school I can be a sports med specialist and own animals. However, if I went to vet school I couldn't really do anything with sports med. So my decision was trying to be able to do 2 things that I love. I know that med school will eventually be more time with residency and such, but in the end I know it will be the right decision.
I also can't stand pet owners that don't want to do the best for their pet, as I have seen working in the vet clinic. They trully aggitate me.
Good Luck everyone with their decision!!
I also can't stand pet owners that don't want to do the best for their pet, as I have seen working in the vet clinic. They trully aggitate me.
Good Luck everyone with their decision!!
I'm a dogmusher and I'm going to med school. I really really like working with dogs, and I'm gonna miss them a lot over the next while, but I'm not that patient with a lot of pet owners. I don't think I'd be a pediatrician for the same reason, kids are great but parents aren't always. Not that all patients are great, but at least you are dealing directly with them, and avoiding an overprotective worrier intermediary.
Also several of my vet friends told me to go to med school.....they told me I'd get to run dogs more in the future as MD than as a DVM. OK, gotta go feed dogs.....
Also several of my vet friends told me to go to med school.....they told me I'd get to run dogs more in the future as MD than as a DVM. OK, gotta go feed dogs.....
cudvm2005 said:
Ha thats funny...Im considering human medicine although I love animals I would never be able to see an animal in pain. I can in humans, I have shadowed and volunteered in hospitals been in ICU, trauma etc etc...does not bother me one bit but once something happens to an animal....I can't handle it! I don't know why...Some time back my dog got lose and came back with a bite wound! I got a call from my neighbor so I rushed home and took him to ER. When the vet took him I wanted to go inthere with him but I just couldn't. My dog was in pain and I just couldn't see that. On contrast, I can see just about anything on humans!? 🙂 Doesn't bother me one bit.
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Hi All, I'm Jon and I'm new to this sight as of today! I'm sure i'll be spending hours going throught he prior threads. I thought i'd make my first post to this topic. See, I have always wanted to be a DVM and have been working on my pre-reqs for the past 3 years and will be able to apply to OSU in July! I am very excited...but...for the past several months I have been questioning if this is right for me or not. I can't believe it, but I am. I started doing some research on other careers and have kind of fell in love with the Physician Assistant profession. I know for sure I don't want to be an MD.
Anyway, I almost feel horrible that I have spent all of this time focusing on vet school and now I'm considering not even applying. It has always been my career goald to be a vet. Well, I have decided to apply to vet school and PA school and which ever one I get into is where I am meant to be.
Anyway, I almost feel horrible that I have spent all of this time focusing on vet school and now I'm considering not even applying. It has always been my career goald to be a vet. Well, I have decided to apply to vet school and PA school and which ever one I get into is where I am meant to be.
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DizzyJon said:
Jon,
Don't feel bad about questioning your decision. It is good that you explore other opportunities before coming to a final conclusion. There are opportunities to become involved with some aspect of both. For instance, now that I have decided to attend medical school, I have found the Wilderness Medical Society (http://www.wms.org/). This will enable me to stay involved with animals in some form while treating humans. And by the way, what will you do if you are accepted to both programs. This is what happened to me and it made the decision that much more difficult. In the end, your heart will lead you to where you will be happiest.
Herp
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Herp
I was just thinking about that this morning. I have to say i'm not sure yet what I would do if I got into both programs. I am going to start shadowing a PA in an ER tomorrow. As I get more involved with human medicine I will be able to make a better decision. I have several years experience as a tech/asst and know how the vet med field all works and now I just need to do it for the other. Thanks for your imput and I'm going to check out that web site.
dizzyjon
I was just thinking about that this morning. I have to say i'm not sure yet what I would do if I got into both programs. I am going to start shadowing a PA in an ER tomorrow. As I get more involved with human medicine I will be able to make a better decision. I have several years experience as a tech/asst and know how the vet med field all works and now I just need to do it for the other. Thanks for your imput and I'm going to check out that web site.
dizzyjon
hey guys!
i have a question for y'all.
I have wanted to be a vet my entire life. It took me until the university years to decide, like some of you guys have said, that I cannot stand to see an animal in pain or butthead owners that do not care about their pets. I have no problem with helping people in pain, but I fall apart with anything having to do with animals, and could never put one to sleep.
What would be a good answer when/if the question "Why doctor over vet?" comes up in an interview?
Thanks for any help, congrats and good luck on the decisions! 😉
i have a question for y'all.
I have wanted to be a vet my entire life. It took me until the university years to decide, like some of you guys have said, that I cannot stand to see an animal in pain or butthead owners that do not care about their pets. I have no problem with helping people in pain, but I fall apart with anything having to do with animals, and could never put one to sleep.
What would be a good answer when/if the question "Why doctor over vet?" comes up in an interview?
Thanks for any help, congrats and good luck on the decisions! 😉
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Peachy720 said:
Honestly, I don't think you should even tell them that you are considering being a vet unless they bring it up. As I mentioned I am going to apply to vet school and PA school (of course now going through the threads maybe MD, who knows what it might be tomorrow) but anywho...when I apply to vet school I know they are going to ask what I'm going to do if I don't get in and the my answer certainly isn't going to be "be a physician assistant (or MD)" I think that it will hurt my chances. Likewise, I'm not going to tell the PA school that i'm applying to vet school.
This is certainly just my opinion, but my plan is to give it my best to both career interviews and the one i'm accepted into is what was meant to be.
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One pre-vet student made a comment in my class today that med school was her "backup" plan. I think that sounds kind of horrible. Med school as a backup? Maybe she won't make the best doctor if med school is just her back up plan. Same vice versa
