Med School questions/Psychiatry/Questioning

[whatishappeningpm]

So, I have always been set on Psych (First experimental, then clinical), and never considered med school. Mostly because my primary interests are neuroscience and psychology, so being a physician never occurred to me. Not to mention, I have a math disability and have never taken math classes like the ones required for med school. I have serious reservations about if I could handle the pre-med post-bacc I'd have to take/med school even if I did decide it was the best for my career interests. And I'm not sure if I could handle gore like that. However, I'm first trying to figure out what is truly the best means to support my career goals. I've had some clinical psychologists tell me that my goals are out of purview of their scope, so I'm trying to figure out what options are out there for me career-wise. I'll delineate some primary career motivators:

1. I want to be able to work in a hospital setting. If I were able to pursue a PhD, I was looking at specializing in neuropsych/assessments for serious mental illness in a hospital setting, but I've found out that neuropsychologists primarily work with neurocognitive disorders, not with psychotic patients. That's not to say I don't have broader interests in studying other neuropsychiatric illnesses and non-psychiatric diseases. I used to be extremely interested in ALS, Parkinson's, etc., but in preparation for a PhD in Clinical Psych I narrowed down my interests and found that schizophrenia was an illness I would be happy to devote the rest of my career to.
I think the hospital is a perfect place given that I'd love to work clinically, but also conduct some research, specifically I'm interested in doing some institutional/structural research and maybe even help implement new programs in this space that help address health barriers for psychotic patients. I'm also interested in biological mechanisms of schizophrenia and clinical intervention/translational research.

2. Long term, I am interested in dividing my time between a hospital setting and private practice. I also really like teaching, and have experience teaching psychology to college students/post-grad students, and would love to also do that if the opportunity was there. Neuroscience/psych is my first love, but there are some serious limits and it seems like neuropsychologists don't work with psychotic patients for differential diagnostics and devising long-term health treatment plans, which I was hoping I could do.

I also have a few questions about medical school/career opportunities (Sorry if any of my terminology is incorrect):

1. I work in an IRB in a health system, so I do see med students added to research studies all the time. Is it common for med students to conduct their own research? Is this done during the first two years or when they're in clinical rotations? Is it the norm or does the student have to express special interest in research and is expressing interest enough or is it grant dependent, etc.?

2. Also regarding research, are there stats classes in med school? It looks like med school has a lot of physics, biochem, etc., and then PhDs have a heavier focus on stats. I was just curious how that plays out for med students and even doctors conducting research? I do sometimes see statisticians added to medical research, so is research done in these settings a more collaborative effort or are you still expected to handle all of the statistical analysis yourself?

3. Is it common for people whose main interests are neuro to go to med school? Truthfully, I never thought about med school/trying to be a physician, - is it common to go into med school for extremely specific interests such as mine?

4. This is extremely general, but if anyone has some insights on the day-to-day for psychiatrists working in a hospital setting, I'd love to learn a little more.

Again, sorry if I used the incorrect terms in this post. Hope this is clear enough. Thanks!

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[ablanco]

Really only have an answer for #3, yes but people realize you have to learn about everything first and deal with it for awhile before you can learn/focus/train on that specific thing. To my understanding interests are also subject to change due to considerations of timing, application requirements, introduction to new fields, and details of what the actual job would be outside of the subject.

I'd also ask if your interested in talking to pts regularly, developing long-term relationships, and doing counseling? Or more toward understanding/managing physiological aspects of mental health and diagnosing pts in an acute environment where you're initiating treatment. These are gross generalizations and don't encompass the full responsibilities and options of each role, just a way for a layman like me to understand how you picture the life/activity of what you want to do.

 

[whatishappeningpm]

Thank you. These are good points to reflect on. I am interested in both to a certain extent, but moreso treatment in an acute setting. But I am also extremely interested in precision/personalized treatments which I would imagine also entails a longstanding relationship with the individual.

 

[ablanco]

Thank you. These are good points to reflect on. I am interested in both to a certain extent, but moreso treatment in an acute setting. But I am also extremely interested in precision/personalized treatments which I would imagine also entails a longstanding relationship with the individual.

Mhmm. I'd say shadow each position and see which lifestyle/job you'd want to have. Cross-check that with what you're willing to do in the pursuit of that role and then you should have a good answer.

 

[whatishappeningpm]

I was looking at shadowing opportunities months ago but unforunately I dont think they exist for non-students (at least, I havent seen any especially for psychologists). I'm a full time worker who is 5 years out of undergrad at this point

 

[dukun8ter]

I was looking at shadowing opportunities months ago but unforunately I dont think they exist for non-students (at least, I havent seen any especially for psychologists). I'm a full time worker who is 5 years out of undergrad at this point

Same 🥲 I've been out of school for a while but have been tackling the pre-reqs for med school. I actually started looking into Clinical Psych PhD/ PsyD programs and am applying to those programs along with med schools. It's not easy for us non-trad applicants. My biggest setbacks are the lack of research experience and shadowing, but I have been lucky to shadow some primary care physicians. You might be able to go on ride-alongs or intern with a police department that works alongside licensed mental health clinicians. There are a lot more factors in play as we're older, but it is doable. Whatever you choose to do, good luck! I hope you get the experience you need and that acceptance, when you apply!

 

[Goro]

1. I work in an IRB in a health system, so I do see med students added to research studies all the time. Is it common for med students to conduct their own research?

They do so under a PI or preceptor.

Is this done during the first two years or when they're in clinical rotations? Is it the norm or does the student have to express special interest in research and is expressing interest enough or is it grant dependent, etc.?

The only time in the preclinical years that research friendly for a med student is summer between M1 and M2. Research can be done in the clinical years, but the timing of it is more open to what is available and who is leading the research.

2. Also regarding research, are there stats classes in med school? It looks like med school has a lot of physics, biochem, etc., and then PhDs have a heavier focus on stats.

Physics? Gawd no. Biostats and epidemiology? yes. You're also need your math skills for physiology and pathophysiology.

I was just curious how that plays out for med students and even doctors conducting research? I do sometimes see statisticians added to medical research, so is research done in these settings a more collaborative effort or are you still expected to handle all of the statistical analysis yourself?

3. Is it common for people whose main interests are neuro to go to med school?

Don't know. But I can tell you that a "psych or bust" mindset is not something we want to see in an applicant. I have no stat skills whatsoever, so I rely on a colleague to tell me if my p values are OK.

Truthfully, I never thought about med school/trying to be a physician, - is it common to go into med school for extremely specific interests such as mine?

I've seen it, mainly for ex-EMTs who want to go into EM, and cancer survivors who want to go into Heme/Onc.

4. This is extremely general, but if anyone has some insights on the day-to-day for psychiatrists working in a hospital setting, I'd love to learn a little more.
@Mad Jack you're needed!

 

[Goro]

I suggest that you take an algebra or biostats class at a local CC to see if you can handle the rigor.

I also feel your pain. If I have to deal with anything mathematical, my brain melts and runs of my ears

 

[whatishappeningpm]

They do so under a PI or preceptor.


The only time in the preclinical years that research friendly for a med student is summer between M1 and M2. Research can be done in the clinical years, but the timing of it is more open to what is available and who is leading the research.

Physics? Gawd no. Biostats and epidemiology? yes. You're also need your math skills for physiology and pathophysiology.

Don't know. But I can tell you that a "psych or bust" mindset is not something we want to see in an applicant. I have no stat skills whatsoever, so I rely on a colleague to tell me if my p values are OK.

I've seen it, mainly for ex-EMTs who want to go into EM, and cancer survivors who want to go into Heme/Onc.

I want to say thank you so much for your thorough response. Ultimately, I have decided to go the clinical psych route for a few reasons: mainly, even if though I don't want to be pigeon holed there, I do want the opportunity to engage deeply in neuro/pysch schizophrenia research as a student, and also because my whole interest in biology is related to neuro, - even learning molecular and about different systems is in service of learning more about brain function and I simply don't have any true/pure interest in the rest of medicine, so I don't think it is the right fit for me. I do have some fears going into clinical pych given that the population I want to work with is SMI/Schizophrenia, so I worry about trying to help patients while being reliant on different providers but I can't do it all and also I have to believe that clinical psychologists are pivotal members of coordinated speciality care teams & hospitals systems given that they're in them, even if I don't exactly understand how the role is played yet. Secondly, I'm a bit sad since I won't have an opportunity to get involved in precision medicine which I think will be truly game changing for the population I'm interested in, but again I can't do it all. Thank you!