Medical Mission Trip: More than one?

[YungGeezy]

So I'm a senior in undergrad applying right after graduation to med school. I already went on a medical mission trip to Jamaica last spring break and I know they receive a lot of criticism on here for not being effective but I really loved it. It was the most hands on clinical experience I've ever had and definitely not something you can get in the US at least not easily. I've been thinking about doing another one this spring break again? I know there are tons of different programs like ISL, A Broader View, etc. does anyone know from personal experience anything about these organizations? Their validity?

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[Planes2Doc]

Uh oh... What do you mean by "hands on"? If you mean things like suturing and taking part in procedures, you can piss off ADCOMs and kill your chances since you will be viewed as being unethical.

As for me, I sympathize with people who do this because it's due to the pressure to get "clinical experience" as pre-meds. If they did these same things at a free clinic, it would be viewed in a totally different light.

Sorry, this is just what I'm assuming based on what you wrote. If you did end up doing things beyond your scope of practice, they will hurt and not help you. I would recommend never mentioning them ever again. Not sure how much an additional trip to a different place will help. Going back to the same place will show commitment.

 

[Glandzburg]

Are you asking if another trip would help you? I think you know that the answer is no.

If you enjoyed it and want to do it again for your own satisfaction, you are free to spend your money as you please. But be sure to heed @Planes2Doc 's warning about mentioning things you may have done that were beyond your scope of training.

 

[gyngyn]

Describe "hands on experience."

 

[njtrimed]

What exactly does it mean when an undergraduate pre-med goes on a medical mission and gets "hands-on" experience? It bothers me that experiences on medical missions are cast in a suspicious light because it seems like the rules go out the window in terms of scope of practice. My experience on medical missions made me realize the impact I could have as a physician, not what I could do before I reached that level in my training. I didn't pay to participate as someone who wanted to impress admissions committees or residency programs; I gave up my limited vacation time and worked really hard to do the job I normally do. It bothers me that ADCOMs seem to view medical missions as some sort of vacation, but I'm gathering from SDN that it's basically just that?

 

[Glandzburg]

What exactly does it mean when an undergraduate pre-med goes on a medical mission and gets "hands-on" experience? It bothers me that experiences on medical missions are cast in a suspicious light because it seems like the rules go out the window in terms of scope of practice. My experience on medical missions made me realize the impact I could have as a physician, not what I could do before I reached that level in my training. I didn't pay to participate as someone who wanted to impress admissions committees or residency programs; I gave up my limited vacation time and worked really hard to do the job I normally do. It bothers me that ADCOMs seem to view medical missions as some sort of vacation, but I'm gathering from SDN that it's basically just that?

There are several reasons why some ADCOM members look down on these trips:
1) A lot of pre-meds do it just to add to their application. So many that it's not even unique anymore.
2) A lot of these trips ARE like a vacation. Looking at a few websites for these 1 or 2 week trips, half the time seems to be designated for sight-seeing.
3) If you are going to be training and (likely) practicing in the US, why not help the many underserved populations right here at home?
4) Too many stories of pre-meds acting beyond the scope of your training. Poor people in other countries aren't lab rats to practice suturing on.
5) A 1 or 2 week trip where you come in, "help out," then leave creates issues with continuity of care. A medical mission may be looked at more seriously if it is months long rather than weeks long.

This is just a quick list, I'm sure I'm missing some things. Fair or not, pre-meds seemed to have ruined the reputation of these trips once and for all. And to be clear, I'm not accusing you of having any of these motives, rather I'm telling you some of the preconceived notions some people have against them. Lastly, your mileage may vary. There are ADCOMs out there that may look at them as a plus.

 

[njtrimed]

There are several reasons why some ADCOM members look down on these trips:
1) A lot of pre-meds do it just to add to their application. So many that it's not even unique anymore.
2) A lot of these trips ARE like a vacation. Looking at a few websites for these 1 or 2 week trips, half the time seems to be designated for sight-seeing.
3) If you are going to be training and (likely) practicing in the US, why not help the many underserved populations right here at home?
4) Too many stories of pre-meds acting beyond the scope of your training. Poor people in other countries aren't lab rats to practice suturing on.
5) A 1 or 2 week trip where you come in, "help out," then leave creates issues with continuity of care. A medical mission may be looked at more seriously if it is months long rather than weeks long.

This is just a quick list, I'm sure I'm missing some things. Fair or not, pre-meds seemed to have ruined the reputation of these trips once and for all. And to be clear, I'm not accusing you of having any of these motives, rather I'm telling you some of the preconceived notions some people have against them. Lastly, your mileage may vary. There are ADCOMs out there that may look at them as a plus.

 

[njtrimed]

There are several reasons why some ADCOM members look down on these trips:

1) A lot of pre-meds do it just to add to their application. So many that it's not even unique anymore.
2) A lot of these trips ARE like a vacation. Looking at a few websites for these 1 or 2 week trips, half the time seems to be designated for sight-seeing.
3) If you are going to be training and (likely) practicing in the US, why not help the many underserved populations right here at home?
4) Too many stories of pre-meds acting beyond the scope of your training. Poor people in other countries aren't lab rats to practice suturing on.
5) A 1 or 2 week trip where you come in, "help out," then leave creates issues with continuity of care. A medical mission may be looked at more seriously if it is months long rather than weeks long.

This is just a quick list, I'm sure I'm missing some things. Fair or not, pre-meds seemed to have ruined the reputation of these trips once and for all. And to be clear, I'm not accusing you of having any of these motives, rather I'm telling you some of the preconceived notions some people have against them. Lastly, your mileage may vary. There are ADCOMs out there that may look at them as a plus.

What's upsetting to me is that:
1.) I wasn't premed when I went on my first medical mission. I was majoring in engineering, and happened to be working as as surgical technologist, and a surgeon who loved working with me asked me to join his mission.
2.) Nothing about any of our trips was a vacation. We did get a chance to see the sights, but only those of us who were still up for it after a 14 hour shift in the hospital enjoyed that opportunity.
3.) As a surgical technologist, you just don't have that opportunity to help here in the U.S., which leads right into #4:
4.) I recently signed up for the local "volunteer" corps. and was rejected. I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone. However, within the OR, I am really valuable to surgeons since I can suture. They have taught me how to close someone's chest while they are working on another area. It's not simply because the poor people are lab rats; it's actually because they trust me because they know I take this seriously and have been around for traumas.
5.) That is a lovely ideal. Who do you know can make a medical mission last months? Our mission does last year-round because we take it seriously and include physicians from the area, but how many individuals can stay for more than 1-2 weeks?

 

[Satire5Texul]

What's upsetting to me is that:
1.) I wasn't premed when I went on my first medical mission. I was majoring in engineering, and happened to be working as as surgical technologist, and a surgeon who loved working with me asked me to join his mission.
2.) Nothing about any of our trips was a vacation. We did get a chance to see the sights, but only those of us who were still up for it after a 14 hour shift in the hospital enjoyed that opportunity.
3.) As a surgical technologist, you just don't have that opportunity to help here in the U.S., which leads right into #4:
4.) I recently signed up for the local "volunteer" corps. and was rejected. I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone. However, within the OR, I am really valuable to surgeons since I can suture. They have taught me how to close someone's chest while they are working on another area. It's not simply because the poor people are lab rats; it's actually because they trust me because they know I take this seriously and have been around for traumas.
5.) That is a lovely ideal. Who do you know can make a medical mission last months? Our mission does last year-round because we take it seriously and include physicians from the area, but how many individuals can stay for more than 1-2 weeks?

you are essentially telling someone who has gone through a crap ton of school, that you could do their job, years in advance and without the rigorous training and pressure they themselves were under.

Your surgeons might be passive and really appreciate the valuable time you save them, but this should be more of your leg-up later on clinicals. Not something you mention in interview/Application. I think the rejection from volunteer crops. speaks for itself, and you explicitly know the reasons why, the legality. Why would you ever want to advertise something within illegal ramifications, especially in a clinical setting ?

Keep those awesome experiences to yourself. For now.

1.) That was one person. If he was an ADCOM at a particular school it would matter.
2.) No one can make that assumption that you were too tired to sight-see. you can thank the premeds who took pictures with beers in their hands that were not so tired.
3.) red flag since you are applying to US schools.
4.) Best point in your post. Encapsulates a ton.
5. no one stays that long, you are absolutely right.

Among many of these points is that not everyone can afford to go on these trips, I think the best term to sum it up is a "glorified vacation". I know someone who delivered babies in Thailand. He was relentless this would make him a bright shining star in the view of medical schools. He is doing accounting now.

 

[njtrimed]

you are essentially telling someone who has gone through a crap ton of school, that you could do their job, years in advance and without the rigorous training and pressure they themselves were under.

Your surgeons might be passive and really appreciate the valuable time you save them, but this should be more of your leg-up later on clinicals. Not something you mention in interview/Application. I think the rejection from volunteer crops. speaks for itself, and you explicitly know the reasons why, the legality. Why would you ever want to advertise something within illegal ramifications, especially in a clinical setting ?

Keep those awesome experiences to yourself. For now.

1.) That was one person. If he was an ADCOM at a particular school it would matter.
2.) No one can make that assumption that you were too tired to sight-see. you can thank the premeds who took pictures with beers in their hands that were not so tired.
3.) red flag since you are applying to US schools.
4.) Best point in your post. Encapsulates a ton.
5. no one stays that long, you are absolutely right.

Among many of these points is that not everyone can afford to go on these trips, I think the best term to sum it up is a "glorified vacation". I know someone who delivered babies in Thailand. He was relentless this would make him a bright shining star in the view of medical schools. He is doing accounting now.

Well, thank you for denigrating every single surgical technologist, particularly those of us who choose to volunteer our vacation time to help other people. Who exactly do you think takes care of basically everything behind the scenes in operating rooms? Do you think surgeons set up their own cases???

My profession is not a joke, and the average pre-med who wants to go on a mission cannot do it. In fact, the average medical student cannot do it. It requires a ton of specialized training and knowledge. I have spent years working in hospitals and surgical centers doing everything from trauma surgery, huge neuro cases, ruptured AAAs, to ENT, orthopedics, and pretty much any surgical case you've ever heard of. When there is no resident or physician's assistant, I first-assist and surgeons often have me (quite legally) helping with retracting, suturing, holding the camera on endoscopic cases, and even drilling bone...whatever the surgeon needs, I do.

It may not be a glamorous profession, but if you've ever had surgery, a surgical technologist scrubbed in and played an integral role in your surgery. I actually get paid better than many registered nurses I know because my expertise allows surgeons in all specialties to do their cases flawlessly. So before you tell me that doing my JOB on a medical mission is a "glorified vacation," think about what I do. I didn't pay a dime to go on any of the several medical missions I attended; the surgeons I worked with wanted me there badly enough that they paid my airfare and covered my expenses. When there was no working autoclave, I figured out how to sterilize instruments, and I managed to stretch our extremely limited resources so we could perform over a hundred surgeries. For the medical students and even some surgical residents who attended, it WAS a vacation and an opportunity to learn about cases they hadn't seen before. For me, it was really hard work, trying to do my job for 14 straight hours without access to the resources we have here in the U.S. It was also extremely rewarding, and my first inclination that I wanted to become a physician so that I would have the freedom to provide healthcare to those in need. The reason I can't do it as a volunteer in this country is that any "free" surgery that is done in the U.S. is covered by charity care, but takes place in fully staffed operating rooms, and I am paid to be there.

I hope you treat surgical technologists with more respect than you treated me here when you're rotating through the OR, and especially if you choose to go into surgery. When you're getting pimped and have no idea how to answer your attending's questions, they have the capability of either helping you or making you look worse, if you treat them poorly. Same with nurses, but I think most medical students are aware of the fact that you have to (and should) treat nurses well because they know a lot more than you do.

 

[Cotterpin]

I think the problem here is that what @njtrimed is describing (going on a medical mission as part of a job) is not what everybody else is talking about on this thread (paying money as an undergrad student to go on a medical mission/vacation with no skills or training). Two different things! Don't take it so personally!

 

[njtrimed]

I think the problem here is that what @njtrimed is describing (going on a medical mission as part of a job) is not what everybody else is talking about on this thread (paying money as an undergrad student to go on a medical mission/vacation with no skills or training). Two different things! Don't take it so personally!

The problem here is that I said I went on medical missions as a surgical technologist, but @Satire5Texul still thinks that's not an important enough role and that I should "keep those awesome experiences to yourself."

 

[Cotterpin]

The problem here is that I said I went on medical missions as a surgical technologist, but @Satire5Texul still thinks that's not an important enough role and that I should "keep those awesome experiences to yourself."

Okay. Carry on with your freak out then.

 

[Glandzburg]

The problem here is that I said I went on medical missions as a surgical technologist, but @Satire5Texul still thinks that's not an important enough role and that I should "keep those awesome experiences to yourself."

What you are describing is different than the typical pre-med "voluntourism." Explain that you are actually using skills that are part of your job, and not just going over there to take selfies with orphans for your Facebook profile, and you'll probably be fine.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

As long as you are doing things that you would be allowed to do with your level of training, you're fine! Do it abroad or here, no one cares--- although if that is one of your only exposures to different cultures, that would be a plus point (assuming it's longer than those useless 1 week mission trips)

 

[Doudline]

What's upsetting to me is that:
1.) I wasn't premed when I went on my first medical mission. I was majoring in engineering, and happened to be working as as surgical technologist, and a surgeon who loved working with me asked me to join his mission.
2.) Nothing about any of our trips was a vacation. We did get a chance to see the sights, but only those of us who were still up for it after a 14 hour shift in the hospital enjoyed that opportunity.
3.) As a surgical technologist, you just don't have that opportunity to help here in the U.S., which leads right into #4:
4.) I recently signed up for the local "volunteer" corps. and was rejected. I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone. However, within the OR, I am really valuable to surgeons since I can suture. They have taught me how to close someone's chest while they are working on another area. It's not simply because the poor people are lab rats; it's actually because they trust me because they know I take this seriously and have been around for traumas.
5.) That is a lovely ideal. Who do you know can make a medical mission last months? Our mission does last year-round because we take it seriously and include physicians from the area, but how many individuals can stay for more than 1-2 weeks?

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this should ring a gigantic bell to you. In the USA suturing and starting an IV are out of your legal scope of practice, but the surgeons on the medical mission allow you to do it anyway? If so, it's a gross butchering of ethical standards.

And you can leave for three or for months during the summer. Or longer. I'm currently taking a year off and heading to the Middle East for 8 months as a volunteer. It'll probably cost me less than your 1-week mission trip.

 

[heebeejeebies]

Ah yes, medical voluntourism.

 

[njtrimed]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this should ring a gigantic bell to you. In the USA suturing and starting an IV are out of your legal scope of practice, but the surgeons on the medical mission allow you to do it anyway? If so, it's a gross butchering of ethical standards.

And you can leave for three or for months during the summer. Or longer. I'm currently taking a year off and heading to the Middle East for 8 months as a volunteer. It'll probably cost me less than your 1-week mission trip.

I don't start IVs on medical missions. I do the same exact job I do legally here in the US, which required several years of training to get to my pay scale and level of expertise. And I do not have the luxury of leaving for months. I have a family that I support. Oh, and my multiple two week mission trips cost me nothing.

Seriously, did you READ what I wrote at all?

 

[Doudline]

I don't start IVs on medical missions. I do the same exact job I do legally here in the US, which required several years of training to get to my pay scale and level of expertise. And I do not have the luxury of leaving for months. I have a family that I support. Oh, and my multiple two week mission trips cost me nothing.

Seriously, did you READ what I wrote at all?

I did, but most of it is a mess. My apologies, I guess.

 

[YungGeezy]

Uh oh... What do you mean by "hands on"? If you mean things like suturing and taking part in procedures, you can piss off ADCOMs and kill your chances since you will be viewed as being unethical.

As for me, I sympathize with people who do this because it's due to the pressure to get "clinical experience" as pre-meds. If they did these same things at a free clinic, it would be viewed in a totally different light.

Sorry, this is just what I'm assuming based on what you wrote. If you did end up doing things beyond your scope of practice, they will hurt and not help you. I would recommend never mentioning them ever again. Not sure how much an additional trip to a different place will help. Going back to the same place will show commitment.

No no nothing like that! Just taking blood pressure, blood glucose levels, simple things like that. I've definitely looked into trying to do something like that here in the US within a free clinic but have never had any luck. It's almost impossible to shadow here let alone do anything like that.

 

[gyngyn]

No no nothing like that! Just taking blood pressure, blood glucose levels, simple things like that. I've definitely looked into trying to do something like that here in the US within a free clinic but have never had any luck. It's almost impossible to shadow here let alone do anything like that.

Does your missionary work displace local workers or devalue their compensation?

 

[Lannister]

I don't understand what the issue here is. If njtrimed is legally certified to suture, then he is not doing anything wrong by suturing. If he is not legally certified to suture and he is suturing, that is illegal and unethical. Even if he did go abroad for a job, that doesn't give him the right to do procedures that are outside the scope of his job.

Same goes for OP. If you're doing something you haven't been trained to do, don't report it on your applications. If you enjoy going on medical mission trips, just go, it's probably not going to actively hurt you (as long as you aren't doing anything unethical), it just won't help you.

 

[YungGeezy]

Does your missionary work displace local workers or devalue their compensation?

There are no local workers. The organization travels to rural areas of the Caribbean, including Jamaica which is where I went. The team travels there once a year and most of the people within the community report to us that this is the only form of healthcare they receive.

 

[gyngyn]

There are no local workers. The organization travels to rural areas of the Caribbean, including Jamaica which is where I went. The team travels there once a year and most of the people within the community report to us that this is the only form of healthcare they receive.

There are times when the presence of outside workers gives the government an excuse for not developing indigenous resources. Has the organization you were working for done due diligence to increase opportunity for local health workers?

 

[Satire5Texul]

The problem here is that I said I went on medical missions as a surgical technologist, but @Satire5Texul still thinks that's not an important enough role and that I should "keep those awesome experiences to yourself."

"I recently signed up for the local "volunteer" corps. and was rejected. I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone."

^ I think this is the jarring point is that you just told us you cannot do this legally here. But you are doing it somewhere else. Is it simply because these people are poor and live under different means that they dont have access to a qualified professional who can legally start an IV or suture someone in the US. It begs a lot of questions. I wasn't giving you my opinion, I was playing devil's advocate for the scrutiny you will receive. Or even worse, not even get a chance to discuss. I think what you do is important. Thats my opinion. I think surgeons value you highly because they are under a lot of stress and time constraint. However they view you in a different light than an adcom.

Above you have a faculty member showing you just what type of questions are brought up/discussed on the nature of this topic. You should take heed.

 

[Planes2Doc]

"I recently signed up for the local "volunteer" corps. and was rejected. I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone."

^ I think this is the jarring point is that you just told us you cannot do this legally here. But you are doing it somewhere else. Is it simply because these people are poor and live under different means that they dont have access to a qualified professional who can legally start an IV or suture someone in the US. It begs a lot of questions. I wasn't giving you my opinion, I was playing devil's advocate for the scrutiny you will receive. Or even worse, not even get a chance to discuss. I think what you do is important. Thats my opinion. I think surgeons value you highly because they are under a lot of stress and time constraint. However they view you in a different light than an adcom.

Above you have a faculty member showing you just what type of questions are brought up/discussed on the nature of this topic. You should take heed.

Excellent point... And as was stated above, it's not the surgeons that determine whether you get into medical school or not, it's the ADCOMs. This is more of a reason to think about this strategically.

 

[IlDestriero]

As long as you are doing things that you would be allowed to do with your level of training, you're fine! Do it abroad or here, no one cares--- although if that is one of your only exposures to different cultures, that would be a plus point (assuming it's longer than those useless 1 week mission trips)

You mean those useless 1 week surgical mission trips where they do 100 surgeries, in 12 hour non stop days, to treat people that would otherwise never have these life changing surgeries? Or some other useless trips?

 

[Lannister]

It's also not the surgeons who determine what's legal or ethical. I mean, the mafia boss can trust me enough to let me kill someone, but does that make the murder okay?

 

[Lannister]

You mean those useless 1 week surgical mission trips where they do 100 surgeries, in 12 hour non stop days, to treat people that would otherwise never have these life changing surgeries? Or some other useless trips?

I think what donut meant is that it's useless for pre-meds, seeing as they know nothing about medicine and probably won't be doing anything super meaningful. Obviously doctors going on medical mission trips is not useless.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

You mean those useless 1 week surgical mission trips where they do 100 surgeries, in 12 hour non stop days, to treat people that would otherwise never have these life changing surgeries? Or some other useless trips?

I meant undergrad volunteers. Of course health care providers are doing actual work there

 

[Nitromate]

im not so sure these are looked favorably anymore

 

[njtrimed]

"I recently signed up for the local "volunteer" corps. and was rejected. I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone."

^ I think this is the jarring point is that you just told us you cannot do this legally here. But you are doing it somewhere else. Is it simply because these people are poor and live under different means that they dont have access to a qualified professional who can legally start an IV or suture someone in the US. It begs a lot of questions. I wasn't giving you my opinion, I was playing devil's advocate for the scrutiny you will receive. Or even worse, not even get a chance to discuss. I think what you do is important. Thats my opinion. I think surgeons value you highly because they are under a lot of stress and time constraint. However they view you in a different light than an adcom.

Above you have a faculty member showing you just what type of questions are brought up/discussed on the nature of this topic. You should take heed.

Honestly, I don't think you're really reading what I am explaining. The local volunteer corps needs registered nurses and physicians, not surgical technologists, because they're not doing surgery.

However, what I do on medical missions is EXACTLY the same thing I do at work here in the U.S. every day, legally. Under the supervision of an attending surgeon, I am allowed to suture, retract, or do anything they need me to do as a first assistant. I am trained and nationally certified. So there's nothing shady or strange about me doing so on a medical mission. It's my job. I'm not sure why that is confusing you, but it's perfectly legal and legitimate.

I'm not sure what kind of medical mission takes premedical students along, but mine certainly did not have room for anyone who wasn't actually working. I was not pre-med, and I gave up my only vacation time with my family to work really hard, long hours for free. It was totally worth it to help literally hundreds of people, many of whom were children who had never even seen a doctor and were malnourished or restricted in movement due to problems that we could fix with just one surgery. But it was exhausting. I came back on a Sunday and went to work Monday morning.

And many interviewers have commented that it's fantastic that it was my inspiration to pursue medicine. I suppose if anyone had an issue with it for whatever reason, that schools is probably not a great fit for me anyway.

 

[Satire5Texul]

Honestly, I don't think you're really reading what I am explaining. The local volunteer corps needs registered nurses and physicians, not surgical technologists, because they're not doing surgery.

However, what I do on medical missions is EXACTLY the same thing I do at work here in the U.S. every day, legally. Under the supervision of an attending surgeon, I am allowed to suture, retract, or do anything they need me to do as a first assistant. I am trained and nationally certified. So there's nothing shady or strange about me doing so on a medical mission. It's my job. I'm not sure why that is confusing you, but it's perfectly legal and legitimate.

I'm not sure what kind of medical mission takes premedical students along, but mine certainly did not have room for anyone who wasn't actually working. I was not pre-med, and I gave up my only vacation time with my family to work really hard, long hours for free. It was totally worth it to help literally hundreds of people, many of whom were children who had never even seen a doctor and were malnourished or restricted in movement due to problems that we could fix with just one surgery. But it was exhausting. I came back on a Sunday and went to work Monday morning.

And many interviewers have commented that it's fantastic that it was my inspiration to pursue medicine. I suppose if anyone had an issue with it for whatever reason, that schools is probably not a great fit for me anyway.

I think everyone was confused by this very sentence you wrote.

I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone.

You seem hellbent on using this, so I am sure if you explained it all it will go well for you. Hopefully your stress test wont be on this issue alone.

 

[Staphbreak]

im not so sure these are looked favorably anymore

agreed

 

[njtrimed]

I think everyone was confused by this very sentence you wrote.

I cannot legally start an IV or suture anyone.

You seem hellbent on using this, so I am sure if you explained it all it will go well for you. Hopefully your stress test wont be on this issue alone.

You seem hellbent on going back to that line, when I explained it already, several times.

 

[Satire5Texul]

You seem hellbent on going back to that line, when I explained it already, several times.

I dont think I was the only confused....just look above...Your explanations still are not explicit but we are

On a serious note, with no sarcasm, I wish you the best of luck.
Helping people is central to the job as a whole, happy you were able to make a difference so early on.

Best of wishes. In your clinical years you will be above everyone else. You have that look forward to.

 

[njtrimed]

I dont think I was the only confused....just look above...Your explanations still are not explicit but we are

On a serious note, with no sarcasm, I wish you the best of luck.
Helping people is central to the job as a whole, happy you were able to make a difference so early on.

Best of wishes. In your clinical years you will be above everyone else. You have that look forward to.

Okay, I'm sorry if I didn't explain it well. I thought I was pretty clear on my second post, but I suppose I wasn't. My apologies. For anyone who is curious, here's an explanation from the American Board of Surgical Assistants: "Although descriptions may vary from institution to institution, the role of the first assistant requires active participation, during the surgical procedure. This involves providing exposure, hemostasis, tying or sewing plus other functions (excluding acting as the scrub nurse or technician) as determined by the primary surgeon, responsible for the patient and procedure." So inside an OR while working with a surgeon, my scope of practice is pretty broad. Outside of an OR, I'm almost useless. And while my experience will certainly be great specifically during my surgical rotation, it's not going to help me with much else!

Thanks for the good wishes. I wish you the best of luck as well.

 

[Glandzburg]

You seem hellbent on going back to that line, when I explained it already, several times.

People are trying to give you legitimate advice and you are not receiving it well. You can get as worked up about it as you want, but that doesn't change the stigma surrounding these trips.

Honestly, what you are describing could very well be looked at favorably if you explain it in the right way. So I just urge you to heed some of the suggestions given here and be careful about it. Most of us are just trying to help you formulate a successful application.

 

[deleted407021]

Do any adcoms take offense to the idea of religious, missionary based clinical trips, in general?

 

[Satire5Texul]

Do any adcoms take offense to the idea of religious, missionary based clinical trips, in general?

Ooohhhhhh I know someone who does. They called it "infringing" on someone's homeland. My friend was suuuuuper lucky to get someone in interview, who was from the country they visited as a religious trip to build houses and dispense health-related items. She got slaughtered on the questions about the trip - too the obvious point the interviewer had a bone to pick, asking questions about geography of where the student went and the religious history of the country. This person did not get into the select medical school. They went on to a different school though.

This can obviously work in your favor or detriment. Its a hit or miss.

If anything good came out of Monster_Cats post about how her two cycles went, was that the opinion is as far and wide as the ocean. What works for one person, will sink you on another. Better to stay conservative and not try to walk on water.

 

[bc65]

@njtrimed, it's clear that almost nobody who has posted here has any idea as to what your job is in the US.

As someone who has participated is such trips, I can attest that they are very difficult and exhausting, probably more so for the OR staff that for the support staff.

Yes, your trips overseas are a valuable experience and should be mentioned in your application. Be sure to be clear about this when you mention your trip. "I accompanied one of the surgeons that I usually work with on a trip to county X, where, I assisted the surgeon as I usually do. We performed X number of operations over a period of X days, working 14 hours a day. I learned ............................

 

[Yaravan]

im not so sure these are looked favorably anymore

these are getting played out. its not original anymore

 

[njtrimed]

@njtrimed, it's clear that almost nobody who has posted here has any idea as to what your job is in the US.

As someone who has participated is such trips, I can attest that they are very difficult and exhausting, probably more so for the OR staff that for the support staff.

Yes, your trips overseas are a valuable experience and should be mentioned in your application. Be sure to be clear about this when you mention your trip. "I accompanied one of the surgeons that I usually work with on a trip to county X, where, I assisted the surgeon as I usually do. We performed X number of operations over a period of X days, working 14 hours a day. I learned ............................

Thank you, @bc65. That's exactly what I did, and fortunately neither my motivation not my role on these trips seems to confusing to ADCOMs.

 

[njtrimed]

these are getting played out. its not original anymore

Ick. Statements like these make my skin crawl, because if you're interested in volunteering just to be "original" and don't want to do them because they're "played out," it says everything that needs to be said about your priorities.

 

[IlDestriero]

The money you spend on a trip would pay for 1/2 a fresh deep water well in a remote 3rd world village that employs the local people for construction and will last 20 years. You can use your money as starter funds for the project and raise the rest at your university. Which sounds more impressive? Which one is a better use of money? Which one makes a greater impact?
Do it.
www.charitywater.org
You're welcome.
Feeling like a baller? Put a big one in that can support a medical clinic.

 

[WingedOx]

Sigh... regardless of the ethics of medical mission trips, which seem to be hammered home above, these trips really show a problem with incoming medical students.

We get these kids who grew up in the Main Line of PA or the Il North Shore, attended Penn or Northwestern, and get "experience with the underserved" in some 3rd world ****hole, yet show up at med school having no idea how to understand the issues affecting medical care for a lower middle class family from DelCo or Will County.

 

[bc65]

Some medical trips are necessary, because money alone will NOT (edit) get a successful plastic surgeon in Sao Paulo to go into the Amazon to do cleft lip repairs. So, which is better, a well in a village, with many lives saved, or several kids with repaired cleft lips who will have completely normal lives instead of lives of misery? I don't know.

Perhaps it would be best to donate and write, " I decided to forgo a medical trip and instead sponsor a well". However, it might still be better to say, "I sponsored a well and also went on a trip". After all, going on the trip also shows the applicant's willingness to get their hands dirty and work hard.

Personally, I wish med schools would stop evaluating applicants based on their history of volunteering. The very act of writing about volunteering on an application, and the fact that the med schools ask for this information, converts a potentially selfless act into a calculated one, which defeats the purpose of using such acts as a means to evaluate applicants. Once volunteering becomes a de facto requirement, people will try to fulfill it. Don't blame the applicants.

In any case, it's a pointless exercise, since most doctors once in practice spend their time worrying about how to earn more money, not about how to give it away.

 

[Lannister]

Some medical trips are necessary, because money alone will get a successful plastic surgeon in Sao Paulo to go into the Amazon to do cleft lip repairs. So, which is better, a well in a village, with many lives saved, or several kids with repaired cleft lips who will have completely normal lives instead of lives of misery? I don't know.

Perhaps it would be best to donate and write, " I decided to forgo a medical trip and instead sponsor a well". However, it might still be better to say, "I sponsored a well and also went on a trip". After all, going on the trip also shows the applicant's willingness to get their hands dirty and work hard.

They aren't comparable, because OP can donate money to build a well, but OP cannot repair cleft palates and lips, because OP is not a doctor.

 

[WingedOx]

Some medical trips are necessary, because money alone will get a successful plastic surgeon in Sao Paulo to go into the Amazon to do cleft lip repairs. So, which is better, a well in a village, with many lives saved, or several kids with repaired cleft lips who will have completely normal lives instead of lives of misery? I don't know.

Perhaps it would be best to donate and write, " I decided to forgo a medical trip and instead sponsor a well". However, it might still be better to say, "I sponsored a well and also went on a trip". After all, going on the trip also shows the applicant's willingness to get their hands dirty and work hard.

Personally, I wish med schools would stop evaluating applicants based on their history of volunteering. The very act of writing about volunteering on an application, and the fact that the med schools ask for this information, converts a potentially selfless act into a calculated one, which defeats the purpose of using such acts as a means to evaluate applicants. Once volunteering becomes a de facto requirement, people will try to fulfill it. Don't blame the applicants.

In any case, it's a pointless exercise, since most doctors once in practice spend their time worrying about how to earn more money, not about how to give it away.

I don't know. Perhaps it's the upper class boy scout upbringing talking here, but I've always had the opinion that if you have the ability you should be doing some volunteering in undergrad regardless of what your next step in life is going to be. Undergraduate campuses are so full of projects and opportunities that unless you're working your ass off to pay tuition there's kind of no excuse not to.

It's not like you're required to spend 100 hours being a useless candy-striper in an emergency room (as a lot of the pre-med board likes to claim is necessary). One of my projects I did with one of my orgs in undergrad involved doing renovation work for a nonprofit... it started with a weekend of destroying walls with sledgehammers. I wish I had the free time to do that kind of stuff now.

 

[deleted407021]

Sigh... regardless of the ethics of medical mission trips, which seem to be hammered home above, these trips really show a problem with incoming medical students.

We get these kids who grew up in the Main Line of PA or the Il North Shore, attended Penn or Northwestern, and get "experience with the underserved" in some 3rd world ****hole, yet show up at med school having no idea how to understand the issues affecting medical care for a lower middle class family from DelCo or Will County.

This ^

I based my PS on health disparities, as I've had intimate contact with them professionally and personally. But I know several premeds who have no idea what socioeconomic factors impact the majority of society because they opted instead to take these "voluntourism" trips to some third world country. They had no exposure to the kind of people and problems they'd actually be dealing with as physicians, which I think is stupid.