- Joined
- Nov 23, 2012
- Messages
- 692
- Reaction score
- 322
I interpreted that as Canadian physicians who were practicing in America. Are those physicians practicing in Canada?
Why would Canadian physicians practicing in America earn more?
Why would Canadian physicians practicing in America earn more?
If you actually look at EM vs Gas on the web you will find EM's hourly rate at $250-$300 vs Gas at around $180-$200. I believe those numbers are accurate and reflect the wages paid by AMCs and hospitals.
So, while 10 years ago GAS paid 20-30% more per hour vs EM things have now switched around with EM paying more money in many situations.
This survey shows what I already know about wages for GAS: real wages for new grads are stagnant at best with only the elite practices (those fortunate enough to be owners) getting the wage increases of 5-6%.
I heard VA got a raise recently that bumped them over 300Yes. People focus on "salary". Per hour (since EM docs generally work shifts). EM docs are doing much better per hour than anesthesia docs per hour.
I focus on "work load" and "hours worked"
AMCs have found the sweetspot in terms of recruiting docs and it's around $350-400k w2 (not factoring in work hours). But that's the magic number.
I focus on work hours and work pace. I switched over to the VA a month and a half a hour. While my pay is low. For the hours I work and the pace of the work. I feel like I am fairly compensated.
If you actually look at EM vs Gas on the web you will find EM's hourly rate at $250-$300 vs Gas at around $180-$200. I believe those numbers are accurate and reflect the wages paid by AMCs and hospitals.
So, while 10 years ago GAS paid 20-30% more per hour vs EM things have now switched around with EM paying more money in many situations.
This survey shows what I already know about wages for GAS: real wages for new grads are stagnant at best with only the elite practices (those fortunate enough to be owners) getting the wage increases of 5-6%.
The final fact which the survey does not take fully into account is lifestyle: Anesthesiology is not a lifestyle choice if you want to earn $200 per hour or more. For "lifestyle" that wage is likely around $150-$175 per hour.
ENT, Ortho, Optho, Derm and even General Surgery (non trauma) offer better lifestyle options than most GAS jobs.
Sorry, but you couldn't pay me $1000 an hour to work in an ER. Your time off work may be great but during it has to be one of the worst lifestyles in medicine. Did you guys enjoy your ER rotations?
Why would Canadian physicians practicing in America earn more?
AMCs have found the sweetspot in terms of recruiting docs and it's around $350-400k w2 (not factoring in work hours). But that's the magic number.
.
You are worth whatever they are willing to pay you.
actually what you are worth is the sweet spot where they are willing to pay it and you are willing to work for it. Unfortunately you gotta find someone to pay you that values you as much as you value yourself.
Sorry that is hilarious....I didn't realize people are fighting to get into any AMC. I would never call 350-400k the sweet spot....double it and then we will talk. 350-400 to supervise 4 or more CRNAs no way.
Could someone fill me in on what AMC is? Google searching yields Australian Medical Council and I'm about 90% sure that's not it. Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Sorry, but you couldn't pay me $1000 an hour to work in an ER. Your time off work may be great but during it has to be one of the worst lifestyles in medicine. Did you guys enjoy your ER rotations?
And if they drop that salary below your "willing" threshold, do you just not work? That's easy for someone who has been practicing for 10-15 years, has no debt, and a sizable nest egg. That's not so easy for a new grad with no savings or assets and 200k+ in debt. A new grad has neither the knowledge to know if a job is a bad deal, nor the means to walk away from a bad deal. That "willing to work for" part of that equation is pretty low for new grads and is part of the reason we will continue to see stagnant anesthesiology pay.
Many Med students choose EM over Gas. I see it year after year that for some reason they "prefer" EM and it remains a popular choice. As for me personally, I detest the ER but that wasn't my point of the post.
EM pays better than GAS.
People keep saying EM pays better than gas, but I just don't see it. Sure, every once in a while you can get a crazy hourly rate, or you can go to TX or the middle of nowhere and make bank, but most EM docs aren't making 350-400 working for management groups - they're making 200-250.
People keep saying EM pays better than gas, but I just don't see it. Sure, every once in a while you can get a crazy hourly rate, or you can go to TX or the middle of nowhere and make bank, but most EM docs aren't making 350-400 working for management groups - they're making 200-250.
Yes. People need to evaluate the overall work they are doing.working 16x 8 hour shifts...
Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
Final thought - think you don't get a lot of respect as an anesthesiologist, chat with your neighbor in EM. Literally all specialties groan when they get a consult from the emergency room, including our own!
You can do ER and work in a small comm hospital. Trust me you can find a sweet gig. The ER drs at my hosp have it good. :0 They don't even do lines/intubate etc-complete joke. I bet there are a bunch of ER jobs like that...
LolI don't know why everyone keeps saying ER docs work like crazy. Ive done em rotation and it wasn't bad at all and I'm at a busy ER. Sure you work nonstop but it's only 12 Hrs. And it was 21 shifts in the month w bunch of random nights and days in there. A lot of patients are there for stupid things and only few are true emergencies. There's a lot of paperwork but not much difficult stuff. Their pay is ridiculously high if you ask me
2/3 of which are evening or night shiftsworking 16x 8 hour shifts...
There is no amount of money in the world that could get me to be a primary team or do primary care, deal with ER bull****, take consults, take routine pages from nurses, round on patients, write notes, get on the hamster wheel in a clinic, or have to talk to someone more than I want to. I guess that eliminated everything, except... 😉
As said above, it's striking how much the gap has closed, if you believe these numbers. There was a time not long ago when FM/IM made much less than 40% of an orthopedist. This has been predicted for some time and was the basis for a lot of advice to ignore compensation that I got while a med student, so maybe they were onto something.
Pretty much every field has gone way up though - the average has gone from 206k in 2011 to 294k in 2017, which is close to a 50 percent increase in six years. Can anyone here explain why so many doctors keep saying that their salaries are falling (especially outside of anesthesiology)?
Okay. I'll keep it simple for you. The subspecialty fields offer the chance for a hard working Physician to earn DOUBLE what the Medscape survey lists as "the average annual salary." Those fields where a young Physician can enter into true private practice arrangement/fee for service/eat what you kill/partner in a group are much different than those where the vast majority of employment opportunities are "employee models."
Employee model= Average Medscape Salary plus maybe 25% (if you are lucky or fellowship trained)
Private practice Model in a subspecialty= 2 X average Medscape Salary (potentially)
Both EM and Gas are now mostly "employee models" with EM about $250 per hour vs Gas at $200 per hour.
so if thats the case why do people complain about Gas job out look? seems like theyd be in decent demand ? serious question. I see so much doom and gloom on these forms and the gas residents i know say " im not worried about that "Okay. I'll keep it simple for you. The subspecialty fields offer the chance for a hard working Physician to earn DOUBLE what the Medscape survey lists as "the average annual salary." Those fields where a young Physician can enter into true private practice arrangement/fee for service/eat what you kill/partner in a group are much different than those where the vast majority of employment opportunities are "employee models."
Employee model= Average Medscape Salary plus maybe 25% (if you are lucky or fellowship trained)
Private practice Model in a subspecialty= 2 X average Medscape Salary (potentially)
Both EM and Gas are now mostly "employee models" with EM about $250 per hour vs Gas at $200 per hour.
so if thats the case why do people complain about Gas job out look? seems like theyd be in decent demand ? serious question. I see so much doom and gloom on these forms and the gas residents i know say " im not worried about that "
Yup. Gotta take the whole workload picture in order to fully comprehend income.Several Reasons, but mathematically, the simplest two reasons would be, increases in anesthesia salary have not kept up with inflation, and second the salaries have not included hours worked (which anecdotally, has inched ever so slightly up), these two combined nets you less per hour than prior years.
Yup. Gotta take the whole workload picture in order to fully comprehend income.
Like i worked briefly at a surgery center last year for 5.5 months. The pay was in the high 300s for rh year. Monday through Friday. Not bad on paper right?
Yet my friend worked at same exact surgery center for essentially same exact pay (high 300s).
But he was working 25-30 hours roughly seeing maybe 15-25 patients daily (mixture of peds ent/eyes/ortho and some endo getting down at 1pm most days and a few off days paid as well
But I was seeing 50-60 patients daily. Heavy GI. Double as many eyes. Same peds/Ortho. Only md covering 3 crnas. Working 55-58 hours often times to 6pm (12 hour days). I'm the only md seeing that many preops.
So on paper compensation is exact same at this surgery center. But I'm doing 2-3x the work and almost double the hours.
Was talking with a new mom ER doc at my orientation. 40 min outside major midwestern city (20 min outside the burbs).2/3 of which are evening or night shifts
No thanks
No. Surgery center was private locally owned.So how'd he get the sweet low hours ? Fellowship trained or seniority
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile