MD & DO Meeting women during medical school

[deleted103644]

Dating apps are responsible for 95% of the female resentment in America. Everything was all fun and games until we truly figured out what was going through that mind of theirs.

Wait, we figured it out?!?

Is there a manual somewhere? Cliff notes?

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[MedicineZ0Z]

By most metrics I’m pretty smart (and exceedingly humble), but none of the truly scary intelligent people I have known have ended up in medicine.

The mercenary ones went into finance, the ones with political aspirations went into law, and those who were actually interested in science are going to make real discoveries there without an MD.



As I said above, exceedingly humble.

And the numbers are pretty arbitrary/meaningless.



Looks obviously matter, but for whatever reason they seem to matter more for male preference than female preference (on average). There’s a reason gay guys are (again, on average) in better shape and pay more attention to their appearance than straight guys.

It really sounds like you don’t have much of a clue what you’re talking about...

Did you even look at the studies? Yes men care a little bit more, but women still care a lot. Also there are other studies that point out attractive women value looks a lot more than average girls (what a surprise).

 

[VincentAdultman]

Did you even look at the studies? Yes men care a little bit more, but women still care a lot. Also there are other studies that point out attractive women value looks a lot more than average girls (what a surprise).

Honest question

How often do you make an effort to interact with women?

 

[deleted103644]

Just you wait until some of your lady peers in medicine end up mid-30s and single. If any of you are still single by then, they'll be on you like white on rice, even if you're on the shorter side. Dating is hard for everyone in medicine but women have ticking clocks, and women in medicine, by virtue of their medical training and tendency to be long term planners, are keenly aware of this fact.

I used to be one of the most staunch about how tall a guy is, now I would just be insanely grateful if a guy was also in medicine and as such had all that in common with me. Feeling your mortality really gets you in touch with what matters.

You could hear the biological clocks ticking when we got to the equivalent of this slide in medical school:

I don’t envy the choices professional women have to make.

 

[deleted103644]

Did you even look at the studies? Yes men care a little bit more, but women still care a lot. Also there are other studies that point out attractive women value looks a lot more than average girls (what a surprise).

You quoted the Huffington Post and something called “LiveScience”.

So, no, I didn’t.

Took a quick glance now. The Huffington Post one is a survey, which even if done well would be pretty meaningless.

Couldn’t find the original article in the LiveScience garbage, but seemed to be a bit more reasonable. All it claimed was that a good personality doesn’t completely make up for being ugly, but given the completely artificial setup there don’t think you can actually generalize.

If you want good data on this stuff, you need access to a dating website database. Eg the okcupid blog before they were bought by Match (or that guy’s book, Dataclysm).

 

[MDtb02]

This thread is hilarious. It's nice to know men are just as clueless as women

 

[SunsFun]

Looks also to an extend reflect priorities in life. If I workout 6 days a week and eat right, regardless of how busy life gets, my looks will reflect that. Obviously, someone who does the same will have more in common with me than a girl that only goes to the gym for a month as a part of New year resolution to loose weight. Her looks will most likely reflect her lifestyle choices as well.

 

[twospadz]

There are not many good looking girls in med school in general. Your chances will improve if you broaden your horizons. You will also find someone else to balance you more.

 

[twospadz]

Looks also to an extend reflect priorities in life. If I workout 6 days a week and eat right, regardless of how busy life gets, my looks will reflect that. Obviously, someone who does the same will have more in common with me than a girl that only goes to the gym for a month as a part of New year resolution to loose weight. Her looks will most likely reflect her lifestyle choices as well.

Honestly, women don't care about looks as much as you think. Women don't get much enjoyment looking at guy as much as the reverse. Women really care about money and status a lot. Gifts, vacations, money, helping with bills, etc. This is the thing that really impresses most women the most. This avenue will get you a lot of hot women. You just gotta accept if you judge a woman by her looks, she will judge what she can get out of you.

A lot of guys are in denial about this because they don't have money and so they never see this side of most women. Its either take the red pill or the blue pill.

 

[deleted731525]

Major bias right here. You absolutely MUST be intelligent to make it into and survive med school. It's simple to say it's easy but I'm sure a guy running a 10.5 in the 100 meters also feels it's easy. But does the naturally chubbier kid also think it's easy when he trains hours with no result? Plenty of kids in school (who are of average intelligence) could never get a decent grade in most premed weeder classes no matter how hard they try.

There's a reason you need to get well above avg (percentile wise) on the MCAT to get into med school. You need to be literally better than others... others who studied a lot like you.



Problem with this post is you're still demanding someone who's way above average in looks (a "7"). Its like saying, I'd rather have a nice Audi with lower maintenance than a Maserati. So you're defeating your own point...
For most guys who look average (by definition), putting maximum effort into their looks = still average. Girls get a solid bump from makeup and clothing but again no one goes from average to super hot.
I do think height is overrated but face is certainly a strong #1 regardless of gender.

The odd time I've known or seen girls with worse looking guys is when the girl had major issues of some sort. Examples include girls who were former escorts, ones who'd cheat nonstop, had multiple men at once, borderline personality with major insecure, drinking problems and so on.
Again, why would a girl go below her own level when she has so many options at her own level?

Because outside of people who look like David Beckham there is no clear consensus on these "levels"?

 

[SunsFun]

Honestly, women don't care about looks as much as you think. Women don't get as much enjoyment looking as a guy as much as the reverse. Women really care about money and status a lot. Gifts, vacations, money, helping with bills, etc. This is the thing that really impresses most women the most. This avenue will get you a lot of hot women. You just gotta accept if you judge a woman by her looks, she will judge what she can get out of you.

A lot of guys are in denial about this because they don't have money and so they never see this side of most women. Its either take the red pill or the blue pill.

My point was not about how much women care about the looks. I simply commented on a personal observation that people with similar priorities tend to find more in common to form a relationship.

Everyone to some extend cares about money, status, looks, etc. People will vary dramatically in what they see as attractive, prestigious, and even wealthy. Making generilaztions about what matters to women or men more is, IMO, a waste of time. I’d rather recommend figuring out who you really are on the inside and what is truly important to you personally. That way you can seek a partner that has similar views and aspirations.

Edit: after rereading your comment I realized that you’re giving advice on “getting lots of hot women” which isn’t something I concern myself with. I was talking about finding someone for a serious relationship.

 

[DrNeuroNJ]

This really is hilarious, and helps me remember why I'm purposely single (most guys my age are too immature in my opinion). As a 23 y.o. averagely attractive woman, I have the following to add.

-Women care less about looks or status than you think they do. Honestly it's all about personality. Especially with women who are also high-achievers, they want a friend and partner and someone who sees them as an equal. NOT someone who treats them like they're helpless beings and insists on being the sole provider in terms of $$. Equality is now a thing. Embrace it. I don't mind paying for my own dinner, if the company is pleasant enough.
-The 10/10s tend to be arrogant and d***heads. Being a 5/10 is better in some circumstances, assuming you're a funny, kind, and a good conversationalist.
-Talk about what's important to you. Bonus points: your family, larger issues like poverty and even science research you do. You lose points if all you care about is scoring a hot girl, making a lot of money, and video games. Be the "nice guy."
-Nobody likes someone who's insecure. Wearing your white coat solely to get girls? Puh-leeze. That's like bragging about how rich your parents are. We (the non-golddigging ones)don't care. What kind of girls do you think you'll attract with that crap? Hint: Superficial ones. Therefore confirming your preconceived notions that all girls are superficial.
-Height--only important for tall women. I'm thin and short (<5"2) and couldn't care less whether my partner is 5"8 or 6"3 as long as he's a good person. The man only has to be taller than the woman (in my experience). So if you're 5"8 and going after women models that are 5"11, yes you'll have a problem in the height department. Just seek women shorter than you, and it'll be okay.
-Working out/six pack/eating healthy: Yes and no. Honestly I PREFER men who don't have a six pack, because the ones that do who I have known tend to be really vain and cocky about it. If you're so obsessed with your diet that you refuse to eat a slice of pizza with me, then that's a deal breaker. Being fit is good, but if it looks like you spend 5 hours a day of your life in the gym, then that's a no.
-BIGGEST ADVICE THAT'S VERY EASY TO FOLLOW: Don't dress like a slob, and take care of your hygiene. Ask your friends, sister, or girl cousins or even your mom. Having greasy hair and using cologne instead of showering is an instant rejection. This is why women (myself included) tend to be attracted to gay men, before realizing they're gay. Gay men tend to pay attention to their clothing, and don't wear that wrinkled shirt with mustard stains all over it. It's gross. You can jump from a 3/10 to a 6/10 by wearing clean, in-style clothing, shaving/grooming regularly, washing your face, and combing your hair.
-Put on your big-boy pants and have some effing confidence. You only have to be average to impress an average woman. There's not some mythical secret to it. Women that are confident also want a confident man, not a little boy they'll have to look after. And certainly not someone who they'll constantly have to validate.

Seemed to be a sausage fest up in here, so I wanted to add something as someone with a vagina. I thought my dating life would improve in medical school, but if this thread is accurately reflective of that population, then I guess I'm in trouble.

Peace out ✌️

Edit: Grammer and clarification.

 

[MDtb02]

This really is hilarious, and helps me remember why I'm purposely single (most guys my age are too immature in my opinion). As a 23 y.o. averagely attractive woman, I have the following to add.

-Women care less about looks or status than you think they do. Honestly it's all about personality. Especially with women who are also high-achievers, they want a friend and partner and someone who sees them as an equal. NOT someone treats them like they're helpless beings and insists on being the sole provider in terms of $$. Equality is now a thing. Embrace it. I don't mind paying for my own dinner, if the company is pleasant enough.
-The 10/10s tend to be arrogant and d***heads. Being a 5/10 is better in some circumstances, assuming you're a funny, kind, and a good conversationalist.
-Talk about what's important to you. Bonus points: your family, larger issues like poverty and even science research you do. You lose points if all you care about is scoring a hot girl, making a lot of money, and video games. Be the "nice guy."
-Nobody likes someone who's insecure. Wearing your white coat solely to get girls? Puh-leeze. That's bragging about how rich your parents are. We (the non-golddigging ones)don't care. What kind of girls do you think you'll attract with that crap? Hint: Superficial ones. Therefore confirming your preconceived notions that all girls are superficial.
-Height--only important for tall women. I'm thin and short (<5"2) and couldn't care less whether my partner is 5"8 or 6"3 as long as he's a good person. The man only has to be taller than the woman (in my experience). So if you're 5"8 and going after women models that are 5"11, yes you'll have a problem in the height department. Just seek women shorter than you, and it'll be okay.
-Working out/six pack/eating healthy: Yes and no. Honestly I PREFER men who don't have a six pack, because the ones that do who I have known tend to be really vain and cocky about it. If you're so obsessed with your diet that you refuse to eat a slice of pizza with me, then that's a deal breaker. Being fit is good, but if it looks like you spend 5 hours a day of your life in the gym, then that's a no.
-BIGGEST ADVICE THAT'S VERY EASY TO FOLLOW: Don't dress like a slob, and take care of your hygiene. Ask your friends, sister, or girl cousins or even your mom. Having greasy hair and using cologne instead of showering is an instant rejection. This is why women (myself included) tend to be attracted to gay men, before realizing they're gay. Gay men tend to pay attention to their clothing, and don't wear that wrinkled shirt with mustard stains all over it. It's gross. You can jump from a 3/10 to a 6/10 by wearing clean in-style clothing, shaving/grooming regularly, washing your face, and combing your hair.
-Put on your big-boy pants and have some effing confidence. You only have to be average to impress an average woman. There's not some mythical secret to it. Women that are confident also want a confident man, not a little boy they'll have to look after. And certainly not someone who they'll constantly have to validate.

Seemed to be a sausage fest up in here, so I wanted to add something as someone with a vagina. I thought my dating life would improve in medical school, but if this thread is accurately reflective of that population, then I guess I'm in trouble.

Peace out ✌️

I agree with all of this

 

[SunsFun]

This really is hilarious, and helps me remember why I'm purposely single (most guys my age are too immature in my opinion). As a 23 y.o. averagely attractive woman, I have the following to add.

-Women care less about looks or status than you think they do. Honestly it's all about personality. Especially with women who are also high-achievers, they want a friend and partner and someone who sees them as an equal. NOT someone who treats them like they're helpless beings and insists on being the sole provider in terms of $$. Equality is now a thing. Embrace it. I don't mind paying for my own dinner, if the company is pleasant enough.
-The 10/10s tend to be arrogant and d***heads. Being a 5/10 is better in some circumstances, assuming you're a funny, kind, and a good conversationalist.
-Talk about what's important to you. Bonus points: your family, larger issues like poverty and even science research you do. You lose points if all you care about is scoring a hot girl, making a lot of money, and video games. Be the "nice guy."
-Nobody likes someone who's insecure. Wearing your white coat solely to get girls? Puh-leeze. That's like bragging about how rich your parents are. We (the non-golddigging ones)don't care. What kind of girls do you think you'll attract with that crap? Hint: Superficial ones. Therefore confirming your preconceived notions that all girls are superficial.
-Height--only important for tall women. I'm thin and short (<5"2) and couldn't care less whether my partner is 5"8 or 6"3 as long as he's a good person. The man only has to be taller than the woman (in my experience). So if you're 5"8 and going after women models that are 5"11, yes you'll have a problem in the height department. Just seek women shorter than you, and it'll be okay.
-Working out/six pack/eating healthy: Yes and no. Honestly I PREFER men who don't have a six pack, because the ones that do who I have known tend to be really vain and cocky about it. If you're so obsessed with your diet that you refuse to eat a slice of pizza with me, then that's a deal breaker. Being fit is good, but if it looks like you spend 5 hours a day of your life in the gym, then that's a no.
-BIGGEST ADVICE THAT'S VERY EASY TO FOLLOW: Don't dress like a slob, and take care of your hygiene. Ask your friends, sister, or girl cousins or even your mom. Having greasy hair and using cologne instead of showering is an instant rejection. This is why women (myself included) tend to be attracted to gay men, before realizing they're gay. Gay men tend to pay attention to their clothing, and don't wear that wrinkled shirt with mustard stains all over it. It's gross. You can jump from a 3/10 to a 6/10 by wearing clean, in-style clothing, shaving/grooming regularly, washing your face, and combing your hair.
-Put on your big-boy pants and have some effing confidence. You only have to be average to impress an average woman. There's not some mythical secret to it. Women that are confident also want a confident man, not a little boy they'll have to look after. And certainly not someone who they'll constantly have to validate.

Seemed to be a sausage fest up in here, so I wanted to add something as someone with a vagina. I thought my dating life would improve in medical school, but if this thread is accurately reflective of that population, then I guess I'm in trouble.

Peace out ✌️

Edit: Grammer and clarification.

I like your comment and appreciate your honeslty. Id be curious to know how things play out for you in the real life.

Without trying to single you out, as it may not at all apply to you, there is one thing I have to mention. Some people may not find it appealing to go out with someone who has a long laundry list of dos and donts and keeps a scoreboard. If a person has a very short list of things that he or she really cares about, they may be interested in having a right vibe, a connection, with their date, rather than sweating the small stuff.

 

[DrNeuroNJ]

I like your comment and appreciate your honeslty. Id be curious to know how things play out for you in the real life.

Without trying to single you out, as it may not at all apply to you, there is one thing I have to mention. Some people may not find it appealing to go out with someone who has a long laundry list of dos and donts and keeps a scoreboard. If a person has a very short list of things that he or she really cares about, they may be interested in having a right vibe, a connection, with their date, rather than sweating the small stuff.

Yeah I get what you mean. I was being generic and giving the checklist for the purpose of advice-giving. I was appalled by some of the other "advice" being given, as well as the misconceptions about women, so made the checklist to simplify things and to counterargue earlier points that were stated. Of course ALL of this is my opinion, but girls talk about guys (just like vice-versa) and most of my girlfriends agree.

We're not saying "I went on a date last night and he spend 5162 dollars on me, and damn is he tall. I think I'm in love."

We're saying "I went on a date last night and he was hilarious and a great conversationalist. And he really seems to be family-oriented. I can't wait until date two."

"...having a right vibe, a connection..." YES. EXACTLY. That's what I mean about personality being key. Not looks or status. While the other things may not be total deal-breakers for a relationship, keeping them mind will help you get dates in the first place (esp hygiene) which was my intent. To make the OP as attractive a potential suitor he can be. I don't care if you wear a mustard-stained shirt at home when we've been dating 8 months already, but if it's in public, and the first impression you give people? Not good.

Maybe it's just a neurotic pre-med thing, but I feel like most people judge their dates on a mental scoreboard? Let's be honest with ourselves here. Just like having a banging MCAT but zero ECs won't get you into medical school, being 6'2 with a six pack and tons of money won't score you the perfect relationship. Again this is assuming the desire is for a mature, adult, serious relationship and not just a hook-up.

 

[twospadz]

This really is hilarious, and helps me remember why I'm purposely single (most guys my age are too immature in my opinion). As a 23 y.o. averagely attractive woman, I have the following to add.

-Women care less about looks or status than you think they do. Honestly it's all about personality. Especially with women who are also high-achievers, they want a friend and partner and someone who sees them as an equal. NOT someone who treats them like they're helpless beings and insists on being the sole provider in terms of $$. Equality is now a thing. Embrace it. I don't mind paying for my own dinner, if the company is pleasant enough.
-The 10/10s tend to be arrogant and d***heads. Being a 5/10 is better in some circumstances, assuming you're a funny, kind, and a good conversationalist.
-Talk about what's important to you. Bonus points: your family, larger issues like poverty and even science research you do. You lose points if all you care about is scoring a hot girl, making a lot of money, and video games. Be the "nice guy."
-Nobody likes someone who's insecure. Wearing your white coat solely to get girls? Puh-leeze. That's like bragging about how rich your parents are. We (the non-golddigging ones)don't care. What kind of girls do you think you'll attract with that crap? Hint: Superficial ones. Therefore confirming your preconceived notions that all girls are superficial.
-Height--only important for tall women. I'm thin and short (<5"2) and couldn't care less whether my partner is 5"8 or 6"3 as long as he's a good person. The man only has to be taller than the woman (in my experience). So if you're 5"8 and going after women models that are 5"11, yes you'll have a problem in the height department. Just seek women shorter than you, and it'll be okay.
-Working out/six pack/eating healthy: Yes and no. Honestly I PREFER men who don't have a six pack, because the ones that do who I have known tend to be really vain and cocky about it. If you're so obsessed with your diet that you refuse to eat a slice of pizza with me, then that's a deal breaker. Being fit is good, but if it looks like you spend 5 hours a day of your life in the gym, then that's a no.
-BIGGEST ADVICE THAT'S VERY EASY TO FOLLOW: Don't dress like a slob, and take care of your hygiene. Ask your friends, sister, or girl cousins or even your mom. Having greasy hair and using cologne instead of showering is an instant rejection. This is why women (myself included) tend to be attracted to gay men, before realizing they're gay. Gay men tend to pay attention to their clothing, and don't wear that wrinkled shirt with mustard stains all over it. It's gross. You can jump from a 3/10 to a 6/10 by wearing clean, in-style clothing, shaving/grooming regularly, washing your face, and combing your hair.
-Put on your big-boy pants and have some effing confidence. You only have to be average to impress an average woman. There's not some mythical secret to it. Women that are confident also want a confident man, not a little boy they'll have to look after. And certainly not someone who they'll constantly have to validate.

Seemed to be a sausage fest up in here, so I wanted to add something as someone with a vagina. I thought my dating life would improve in medical school, but if this thread is accurately reflective of that population, then I guess I'm in trouble.

Peace out ✌️

Edit: Grammer and clarification.

I will save every guy here a huge headache. Chase money and not women. Once you get money, you can be a bummy looking dude with a bad personality. You will attract a lot of women regardless. Not every girl but a ton where you will have to turn away a lot. If your broke and do not ball out, you will have to go through a lot of trial and tribulations to impress even one woman. And nothing will be guaranteed. You will be wasting a lot of time. Take this from a guy who has the resume to back it up big time lol. Women do not judge men as harshly about their appearance and their clothes. Its not about the looks. It about your money and what you can do for her. I've had really attractive women. So attractive even my friends didn't believe it when I showed them evidence. Do not chase women, chase money. Once you got money, peacock and watch a woman's reaction.

Just remember, if you try to get a woman off the strength of your own looks and personality (which is not the best way to attract women, its actually the hard way believe it or not), your results will reflect this method. I promise you that.

 

[DrNeuroNJ]

I will save every guy here a huge headache. Chase money and not women. Once you get money, you can be a bummy looking dude with a bad personality. You will attract a lot of women regardless. Not every girl but a ton where you will have to turn away a lot. If your broke and do not ball out, you will have to go through a lot of trial and tribulations to impress even one woman. And nothing will be guaranteed. You will be wasting a lot of time. Take this from a guy who has the resume to back it up big time lol. Women do not judge men as harshly about their appearance and their clothes. Its not about the looks. It about your money and what you can do for her. I've had really attractive women. So attractive even my friends didn't believe it when I showed them evidence. Do not chase women, chase money. Once you got money, peacock and watch a woman's reaction.

Just remember, if you try to get a woman off the strength of your own looks and personality (which is not the best way to attract women, its actually the hard way believe it or not), your results will reflect this method. I promise you that.

Excellent advice if you're seeking a gold digger. Contrary to popular belief, not all women are like that. And not all "hot" women are like that, either. Guys actually tend to care more about status and power than women do. Id be willing to bet that that most relationships that start this way don't last. Money and looks fade because they're superficial. If you want a real relationship that lasts, it's going to have to be based on more than that. Jesus. No wonder our divorce rate is so high in this country.

Edit: posted before finishing.

 

[twospadz]

Excellent advice if you're seeking a gold digger. Contrary to popular belief, not all women are like that. And not all "hot" women are like that, either. Guys actually tend to care more about status and power than women do. Id be willing to bet that that most relationships that start this way don't last. Money and looks fade because they're superficial. If you want a real relationship that lasts, it's going to have to be based on more than that. Jesus. No wonder our divorce rate is so high in this country.

Edit: posted before finishing.

Your super naive if you don't think most women think like this. I know dudes who are low key 28 year old virgins with this mentality. Just like many women look for a guy who loves her unconditionally and not for her looks. Do they exist? Yes but those guys are not the type that women want. Im giving you complete honesty man. Time is ticking and life is over before you know it. So whats your decision, Blue pill or red pill? Even in relationships and marriage, the game don't end dude. The game never ends.

 

[DrNeuroNJ]

Your super naive if you don't think most women think like this. I know dudes who are low key 28 year old virgins with this mentality. Just like many women look for a guy who loves her unconditionally and not for her looks. Do they exist? Yes but those guys are not the type that women want. Im giving you complete honesty man. Time is ticking and life is over before you know it. So whats your decision, Blue pill or red pill?

I AM a woman. 23. (No pills, thank you lol). And has such, have many friends who are women. Maybe I have good friends, but the majority of us don't think like this. We just want someone who treats us with respect and is confident without being a d***. If anything, we roll our eyes when guys "peacock" because it screams of desperation. Just like women are not impressed by unsolicited d pics, and NOT flattered by cat-calling, they are not impressed by showboating. It might be harder to find women who aren't out for money. But they exist, and IN MY OPINION it's worth the work to find one. Maybe I am naive. Oh well. There's a lot of male physicians who I work with who are divorced and bitter at their ex-wives who took all their money. I'm sure we at least agree that is a terrible path to go down.

You do you, and I'll do me. I assume your success is with hook-ups mostly? I'm curious if you found a solid long-lasting relationship with your methods.

 

[failedatlife]

I know dudes who are low key 28 year old virgins

Oh and DrNeuro, help me make a bio that will get me a chick that looks on IG: total frat move for my Bumble account.

 

[Peach Newport]

Dear mods: is it possible to add a little "fire" icon next to the thread titles to indicate "raging dumpster fire?"

 

[Mad Jack]

You could hear the biological clocks ticking when we got to the equivalent of this slide in medical school:

I don’t envy the choices professional women have to make.

I'm not single, but my god, I don't know if it's the biological clock or my perceived stability or my personality or what, but the amount of attention I've gotten since I hit 30 is exponentially higher than when I was in my early 20s. Dating was more of a chore back in the day, but it'd be pretty much effortless now.

 

[516662]

Oh and DrNeuro, help me make a bio that will get me a chick that looks on IG: total frat move for my Bumble account.

Dude those chicks are gold diggers who party in their 20s, and marry/divorce until they become rich when they hit their 30s. Your better off going to eastern Europe and just paying $100/pop for 9/10s. They will do anything for money.

 

[DoctorofDelight]

I AM a woman. 23. (No pills, thank you lol). And has such, have many friends who are women. Maybe I have good friends, but the majority of us don't think like this. We just want someone who treats us with respect and is confident without being a d***. If anything, we roll our eyes when guys "peacock" because it screams of desperation. Just like women are not impressed by unsolicited d pics, and NOT flattered by cat-calling, they are not impressed by showboating. It might be harder to find women who aren't out for money. But they exist, and IN MY OPINION it's worth the work to find one. Maybe I am naive. Oh well. There's a lot of male physicians who I work with who are divorced and bitter at their ex-wives who took all their money. I'm sure we at least agree that is a terrible path to go down.

You do you, and I'll do me. I assume your success is with hook-ups mostly? I'm curious if you found a solid long-lasting relationship with your methods.

If that's really all women want, then why is it so hard for a lot of guys to match with women on dating sites? Most of those guys are perfectly nice. Looks are important for both genders, period.

 

[DrNeuroNJ]

If that's really all women want, then why is it so hard for a lot of guys to match with women on dating sites? Most of those guys are perfectly nice. Looks are important for both genders, period.

Maybe it's the population that puts themselves on dating sites tend to be looking for certain traits like attractiveness more than the general population? I'm not sure tbh. I personally am not on any--focusing on med school at the moment, not finding Mr. Perfect lol. I bet these "nice guys" would have better luck trying in real life, instead of through dating sites though. It's easier to show confidence and real interest in someone that way. How hard is it to message someone "Hey"? (Not hard at all). It's much more impressive to a woman when someone strikes up a conversation with them, is funny and charming, and then goes in for the "want to grab coffee sometime?" Higher risk of rejection, but also higher reward potentially. Just my .02. I'm sure there's studies on this somewhere.

 

[DoctorofDelight]

Maybe it's the population that puts themselves on dating sites tend to be looking for certain traits like attractiveness more than the general population? I'm not sure tbh. I personally am not on any--focusing on med school at the moment, not finding Mr. Perfect lol. I bet these "nice guys" would have better luck trying in real life, instead of through dating sites though. It's easier to show confidence and real interest in someone that way. How hard is it to message someone "Hey"? (Not hard at all). It's much more impressive to a woman when someone strikes up a conversation with them, is funny and charming, and then goes in for the "want to grab coffee sometime?" Higher risk of rejection, but also higher reward potentially. Just my .02. I'm sure there's studies on this somewhere.

Guys don't just message "Hey?" Most guys will say something about the girl's profile and still get no response. And a lot of women would find it creepy for a guy to just start talking to them (and looks have a lot to do with that too). "OMG this creepy guy just started hitting on me!" ever heard that line from one of your friends?

You don't understand how hard it is for men to date, and that's totally normal since you're a girl who has multiple options at any given time.

 

[DrNeuroNJ]

Guys don't just message "Hey?" Most guys will say something about the girl's profile and still get no response. And a lot of women would find it creepy for a guy to just start talking to them (and looks have a lot to do with that too). "OMG this creepy guy just started hitting on me!" ever heard that line from one of your friends?

I'm not on dating apps, so I don't know about the responding/not responding thing. I don't think it's a good idea to use apps as your only source of meeting the opposite gender, though. Even having an AWESOME text/messaging conversation doesn't mean you'll be able to translate those skills into a real-life meeting. IN REAL LIFE conversation skills are critical.

Yes, I've heard that from friends. Usually the man was being blunt or outright rude though. Be careful who you approach. Don't interrupt someone having another conversation. Don't just outright say "hey I think you're hot" or use a lame pick-up line--that's creepy. Start a conversation of small talk. THEN before you depart, ask for the number. The conversation should be like minimum 10 minutes before this. If there's interest, she'll say yes. If there's not, hey, you still had a nice conversation and good practice. Leave her alone without making a scene. You're right that many times the level of perceived creepiness is related to appearance, though. That's unfortunate. Mostly the hygiene thing comes into play here, and making sure your body language doesn't make you seem like a bundle of nerves.

 

[DoctorofDelight]

I'm not on dating apps, so I don't know about the responding/not responding thing. I don't think it's a good idea to use apps as your only source of meeting the opposite gender, though. Even having an AWESOME text/messaging conversation doesn't mean you'll be able to translate those skills into a real-life meeting. IN REAL LIFE conversation skills are critical.

Yes, I've heard that from friends. Usually the man was being blunt or outright rude though. Be careful who you approach. Don't interrupt someone having another conversation. Don't just outright say "hey I think you're hot" or use a lame pick-up line--that's creepy. Start a conversation of small talk. THEN before you depart, ask for the number. The conversation should be like minimum 10 minutes before this. If there's interest, she'll say yes. If there's not, hey, you still had a nice conversation and good practice. Leave her alone without making a scene. You're right that many times the level of perceived creepiness is related to appearance, though. That's unfortunate. Mostly the hygiene thing comes into play here, and making sure your body language doesn't make you seem like a bundle of nerves.

I really don't need unsolicited obvious dating advice from a girl (who has never had to approach anyone) on how to approach a girl but thanks anyway.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I really don't need unsolicited obvious dating advice from a girl (who has never had to approach anyone) on how to approach a girl but thanks anyway.

But don't you get it, it's so easy! *insert 2 paragraph describing ritual here*

 

[Mad Jack]

If that's really all women want, then why is it so hard for a lot of guys to match with women on dating sites? Most of those guys are perfectly nice. Looks are important for both genders, period.

Dating sites cause the princess problem

I really don't need unsolicited obvious dating advice from a girl (who has never had to approach anyone) on how to approach a girl but thanks anyway.

Yeah, what would a woman know about what women want anyway?

 

[SunsFun]

If that's really all women want, then why is it so hard for a lot of guys to match with women on dating sites? Most of those guys are perfectly nice. Looks are important for both genders, period.

Not to negate what everyone else is saying but I think the explanation lies in the nature of interaction on the site and what the participating party truly wants. While there are certainly guys on the website interested in something serious, there are likely just as many, if not more, men who are there to get laid. They are probably a lot more aggressive in their "marketing campaign" and may have more experience with rejections and getting a response they want to craft a better dialogue. Assuming most women on those sights are interested in serious relationship, they will just create a profile and weight for messages start coming. They have no clue as to who the sender really is and have multiple men messaging them. Now, since there are a lot more men than women on the site, most women will receive tons of messages, mostly from guys who just use the more aggressive approach and most likely just want to score. How is she supposed to chose? She is cant spend all her time going out with every potentially decent date. She will use some superficial factors (the only available) to rank them and just reply to the guys that topped her list.

I think there was some study showing that extremely attractive males on dating sites get disproportionate amount of attention even when compared to guys who were attractive but maybe not like 0.1%.

 

[Mad Jack]

If that's really all women want, then why is it so hard for a lot of guys to match with women on dating sites? Most of those guys are perfectly nice. Looks are important for both genders, period.

Dating sites cause the secretary problem- you're basically presented with unlimited options, so you toss anything out that isn't perfect, since something better will probably come along. You're more likely to find success in the real world as an average guy.

 

[IsWhat]

Dating sites cause the princess problem

Yeah, what would a woman know about what women want anyway?

I believe there is a video floating around with a female journalist who dresses up as a man and tries to pick up women. The point was to find out just how hard it actually is to do. She came away from the experience realizing it's significantly harder and scarier than she previously thought it would be, lol. This is why female advice (while appreciated) needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm glad to be far removed from that time in life...Stay strong people!

 

[twospadz]

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

Im talking about women prettier than any girl in your med school class. Hands down. Like the competition is not even close. Don't limit yourself. Life is super fun. IF its not, you doing it wrong.

 

[516662]

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

Im talking about women prettier than any girl in your med school class. Hands down. Like the competition is not even close. Don't limit yourself. Life is super fun. IF its not, you doing it wrong.

How exactly do you leverage the money?

 

[Mad Jack]

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

Im talking about women prettier than any girl in your med school class. Hands down. Like the competition is not even close. Don't limit yourself. Life is super fun. IF its not, you doing it wrong.

I pretty much can't stand any woman that's 22 or younger, people are basically mentally handicapped until they're into about their mid-20s (dat prefrontal cortex) and I just can't stand talking to most of them, let alone dating one. Ugh.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Honest question

How often do you make an effort to interact with women?

I have a gf.

This really is hilarious, and helps me remember why I'm purposely single (most guys my age are too immature in my opinion). As a 23 y.o. averagely attractive woman, I have the following to add.

-Women care less about looks or status than you think they do. Honestly it's all about personality. Especially with women who are also high-achievers, they want a friend and partner and someone who sees them as an equal. NOT someone who treats them like they're helpless beings and insists on being the sole provider in terms of $$. Equality is now a thing. Embrace it. I don't mind paying for my own dinner, if the company is pleasant enough.
-The 10/10s tend to be arrogant and d***heads. Being a 5/10 is better in some circumstances, assuming you're a funny, kind, and a good conversationalist.
-Talk about what's important to you. Bonus points: your family, larger issues like poverty and even science research you do. You lose points if all you care about is scoring a hot girl, making a lot of money, and video games. Be the "nice guy."
-Nobody likes someone who's insecure. Wearing your white coat solely to get girls? Puh-leeze. That's like bragging about how rich your parents are. We (the non-golddigging ones)don't care. What kind of girls do you think you'll attract with that crap? Hint: Superficial ones. Therefore confirming your preconceived notions that all girls are superficial.
-Height--only important for tall women. I'm thin and short (<5"2) and couldn't care less whether my partner is 5"8 or 6"3 as long as he's a good person. The man only has to be taller than the woman (in my experience). So if you're 5"8 and going after women models that are 5"11, yes you'll have a problem in the height department. Just seek women shorter than you, and it'll be okay.
-Working out/six pack/eating healthy: Yes and no. Honestly I PREFER men who don't have a six pack, because the ones that do who I have known tend to be really vain and cocky about it. If you're so obsessed with your diet that you refuse to eat a slice of pizza with me, then that's a deal breaker. Being fit is good, but if it looks like you spend 5 hours a day of your life in the gym, then that's a no.
-BIGGEST ADVICE THAT'S VERY EASY TO FOLLOW: Don't dress like a slob, and take care of your hygiene. Ask your friends, sister, or girl cousins or even your mom. Having greasy hair and using cologne instead of showering is an instant rejection. This is why women (myself included) tend to be attracted to gay men, before realizing they're gay. Gay men tend to pay attention to their clothing, and don't wear that wrinkled shirt with mustard stains all over it. It's gross. You can jump from a 3/10 to a 6/10 by wearing clean, in-style clothing, shaving/grooming regularly, washing your face, and combing your hair.
-Put on your big-boy pants and have some effing confidence. You only have to be average to impress an average woman. There's not some mythical secret to it. Women that are confident also want a confident man, not a little boy they'll have to look after. And certainly not someone who they'll constantly have to validate.

Seemed to be a sausage fest up in here, so I wanted to add something as someone with a vagina. I thought my dating life would improve in medical school, but if this thread is accurately reflective of that population, then I guess I'm in trouble.

Peace out ✌️

Edit: Grammer and clarification.

I do largely agree with the content of your post. But when you say facial aesthetics aren't that important and also say you're average looking... doesn't that defeat your argument? Every time I've had a convo about this topic (dating, what women value, etc.) with an attractive girl - they always admit the guy's looks are a huge number one. I mean that's what common sense tells us too but apparently SDN likes to think otherwise?

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

Im talking about women prettier than any girl in your med school class. Hands down. Like the competition is not even close. Don't limit yourself. Life is super fun. IF its not, you doing it wrong.

lol overseas...

Anyway dude your post is coming off some PUA forum. What exactly do you plan to do with your money? It's the escort girls who care about it. You'll be a sugar daddy paying the college girl's rent to have sex with her. If you knew any guys with real money you'd know how they use it in this context.
Also, college aged girls largely date guys <25ish (who don't have much money). That's a literal fact.

I believe there is a video floating around with a female journalist who dresses up as a man and tries to pick up women. The point was to find out just how hard it actually is to do. She came away from the experience realizing it's significantly harder and scarier than she previously thought it would be, lol. This is why female advice (while appreciated) needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm glad to be far removed from that time in life...Stay strong people!

Exactly. Most women have no idea the struggles that men have to go through for dating.

The real truth is that it's not money or height or status or body. It's about facial aesthetics + personality/chemistry. If a hot girl likes your face and personality, you're good to go. Of course other variables play into how it works out but those two things are the base.
You can't be an unemployed bum but you certainly don't need to be a millionaire like some PUA/redpillers think. You need to be at least slightly taller than her but don't need to be 6'4. And if you're a doctor, that's great. Some girls will value that and it'll be a +1 to your rating. However many girls simply don't care.

 

[Peach Newport]

I am so stealing that!

It's my AAA material. Use it wisely!

 

[Mad Jack]

It seems like so much of a man's desire to acquire currency is rooted at "finding women". What about women? What drives you to memorize UFAP and achieve AOA status in equal proportion to your male counterparts? Are you all just really so noble that you're doing all of this purely because of your passion for patient care?

I went into medicine so I could afford jumbo Toblerones, personally.

 

[DoctorofDelight]

Yeah, what would a woman know about what women want anyway?

Let me ask you this. If you wanted to learn how to fish, would you rather get advice from a fish or a fisherman?

 

[Mad Jack]

Let me ask you this. If you wanted to learn how to fish, would you rather get advice from a fish or a fisherman?

I view any analogy that equates dating to hunting or fishing as ridiculous.

It's more like if you wanted to learn how to get a job, would you rather ask other applicants or employers. Employers know what they want, but successful applicants know how to highlight those things and stand out. The input of women is valuable, just lacking in perspective, as they are on the other side of the table.

 

[DoctorofDelight]

I view any analogy that equates dating to hunting or fishing as ridiculous.

It's more like if you wanted to learn how to get a job, would you rather ask other applicants or employers. Employers know what they want, but successful applicants know how to highlight those things and stand out. The input of women is valuable, just lacking in perspective, as they are on the other side of the table.

I would ask a successful applicant what they did to get the job. Employers will say some bull**** like "we want hardworking individuals" just like how a girl will say "I just want a nice guy."

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

It seems like so much of a man's desire to acquire currency is rooted at "finding women". What about female SDNers? What drives ya'll to memorize UFAP and achieve AOA status in equal proportion to your male counterparts? We are all aware of the painful double-standard that males aren't as attracted to successful females. Are you all really just so noble that you're doing all of this purely because of your passion for patient care?

Pretty much true but what's the point? Most guys can afford escorts and attracting gold diggers with money is attracting the same population of girls (literally) who are escorts.
All anyone has to do is go out to a bar/club, walk around campus, browse Instagram etc. And they will see nearly every pretty girl is with an equally pretty dude who has some average job (or is a student). Then you can look into successful guys and again all of them are with girls in their own league.

 

[SunsFun]

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

Im talking about women prettier than any girl in your med school class. Hands down. Like the competition is not even close. Don't limit yourself. Life is super fun. IF its not, you doing it wrong.

If you’re not trolling, it really frightens me to think about the things someone must have done to you to have such a jaded view of women in general.

I have been burned badly by women I cared about more than once, but I always at least try to see the best in people.

 

[SunsFun]

It seems like so much of a man's desire to acquire currency is rooted at "finding women". What about female SDNers? What drives ya'll to memorize UFAP and achieve AOA status in equal proportion to your male counterparts? We are all aware of the painful double-standard that males aren't as attracted to successful females. Are you all really just so noble that you're doing all of this purely because of your passion for patient care?

Well, how about that? Some people may have actually been honest in their applications to medical school...

 

[Mad Jack]

I would ask a successful applicant what they did to get the job. Employers will say some bull**** like "we want hardworking individuals" just like how a girl will say "I just want a nice guy."

Congratulations, you understand the point. But employers and those doing selection still have something worth saying, hence why we listen to the Goros and LizzyMs of the world.

 

[Redpancreas]

Congratulations, you understand the point. But employers and those doing selection still have something worth saying, hence why we listen to the Goros and LizzyMs of the world.

The value in the "employers" come from a combination of insight someone combine with frankness which is one of the good things SDN adcoms bring.

 

[twospadz]

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

If you’re not trolling, it really frightens me to think about the things someone must have done to you to have such a jaded view of women in general.

I have been burned badly by women I cared about more than once, but I always at least try to see the best in people.

Jaded? My body count is 80+ lol. I wouldn't call it jaded. Its called experience. And if a man burns a woman or a woman burns a man, I say thats life. There are good and bad men. Good and bad women. Im just giving you rules to the game. Women think they will attract better men by acquiring money, prestige and a better job. Men think more women will flock to them if they get muscles and become better looking. Neither is really true. Women are more into a guy's money and status and men into a woman looks. These are the facts of life. If you are start accepting them, you won half the battle. If you don't, you will be struggling with dating into your 50 and 60s. Anything else in terms of how dating should be "a partner should cook, should be romantic and buy flowers, should be loyal, etc" is an illusion set up by your own expectations.

 

[SunsFun]

By the time most women hit 26-27, they look worn. Im being completely honest. If you got money but even more important, know how to leverage the money to get their attention, you can get girls age 19-23 easy. Like super easy. It even surprised me lol. Its like its a woman's nature to go for guys with money and it doesn't matter if they are much older or looks. Women don't care about stuff like age or looks with a man much. Its about money and yes in some ways status. And Im talking about getting hot girls. Its like, the hotter the girl, the more she cares about money or status. Remember, once you get the money, you call the shots. Never simp out. You have the power, more or less. But you will realize there are a lot of simp dudes in the process. Don't matter. Just stay strong. So many options out here. Just gotta look. Especially overseas buddy lol.

Jaded? My body count is 80+ lol. I wouldn't call it jaded. Its called experience. And if a man burns a woman or a woman burns a man, I say thats life. There are good and bad men. Good and bad women. Im just giving you rules to the game. Women think they will attract better men by acquiring money, prestige and a better job. Men think more women will flock to them if they get muscles and become better looking. Neither is really true. Women are more into a guy's money and status and men into a woman looks. These are the facts of life. If you are start accepting them, you won half the battle. If you don't, you will be struggling with dating into your 50 and 60s. Anything else in terms of how dating should be "a partner should cook, should be romantic and buy flowers, should be loyal, etc" is an illusion set up by your own expectations.

I am sorry man but your comment with body count and blatant generalizations smells of gigantic insecurities. I really hope you get well first before getting out there to look for someone.

 

[twospadz]

I am sorry man but your comment with body count and blatant generalizations smells of gigantic insecurities. I really hope you get well first before getting out there to look for someone.

Yea buddy I understand. Not trying to generalize everyone. Yes there are exceptions to the rule. But if you keep looking for the exceptions, you gonna end up walking down the path of pain, confusion and disappointment. Many men have walked down that road over centuries and even millennium. And for most, it has not ended well. If you think you are different than the rest, be my guest....