Michigan State Osteopathic Letters

[FreeMeDoctor]

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They want the Letter of Rec writer to comment on:

1. Please comment on the applicant’s level of understanding of osteopathic philosophy and commitment to becoming an osteopathic physician.


I have never discussed osteopathic medicine with my Physics Prof nor my Analytical Chem prof and they already wrote me Letters. Now I am supposed to go back to them and ask them to rewrite the damn letters on MSU forms AND make them address my osteopathic qualifications.

WTF ? This is absurd !

 

[NontradICUdoc]

What you need to keep in mind that in the past, the DO schools were used as a backup by many many students who wanted to get into MD schools.

What these students would do is apply to DO schools and get in. The next application cycle, they would apply to MD schools and feel that they have a better chance of getting in after 1 year of medical school. If they got in then they would transfer to the MD school.

In addition, some students will apply to DO schools every year to get a spot while they are on waitlists of MD schools until they get into an MD school. So this is a method to curb that.

 

[EEL08]

I agree that it's absurd. I didn't apply there because of the cost of OOS tuition but I'm glad I don't have to deal with that to be honest.

 

[Jpc984]

I think the anal questions on the LORs and secondaries are reasonable because MSUCOM usually does not interview students. In addition, the LORs just have to be from people who know us well, not a science prof, D.O., etc.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I agree that it's absurd. I didn't apply there because of the cost of OOS tuition but I'm glad I don't have to deal with that to be honest.

Those bastards.....they are one of my in-state schools.

However, I think they are referring to the physician recommenders, rather than the profs. How many of the profs would know anything about osteopathic "philosophy"?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

MSUCOM usually does not interview students.

Come again? Care to provide some corroboration?

 

[ringtail]

i applied there. but as for going back to my LOR writers, screw that. I'll take my chances. At least they don't do interviews. But i don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

i applied there. but as for going back to my LOR writers, screw that. I'll take my chances. At least they don't do interviews. But i don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

So they really don't do interviews? Good....one less trip to make!

 

[EEL08]

If it were a letter from someone who knew me really well or the DO who will be writing my letter then it does sound reasonable. However I agree that my professors probably really don't know about osteopathic medicine, at least not my post-bacc professors.

There was a thread not too long ago when I asked about the MSU interview thing and I was told they are pretty much doing away with them as of this year. If they want to know more about you but are strongly considering you then you will get an interview invite. That's all I know though. I couldn't find any info on the MSUCOM site.

 

[Jpc984]

This thread is pretty good about talking about the process of MSUCOM:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=434265

 

[EEL08]

This thread is pretty good about talking about the process of MSUCOM:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=434265

Thanks! That's actually the thread I was trying to think of but couldn't.

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

Just to throw it out there, when I met with the admissions advisor, she told me that they really don't care who writes the letter as long as that person knows you really really well. She said, "We would rather have your next door neighbor or a high school teacher who has know you your whole life tell us about you than a highly respected and well know professor who will write a good letter but doesn't know you."

The only stipulation is that she said it can't be family.

Part of being a physcian is being able to think outside of the box--ask someone other than your physics prof to write you a letter--leave the professors LOR's for the schools that require them.

HD

 

[superfan56]

Just to throw it out there, when I met with the admissions advisor, she told me that they really don't care who writes the letter as long as that person knows you really really well. She said, "We would rather have your next door neighbor or a high school teacher who has know you your whole life tell us about you than a highly respected and well know professor who will write a good letter but doesn't know you."

The only stipulation is that she said it can't be family.

Part of being a physcian is being able to think outside of the box--ask someone other than your physics prof to write you a letter--leave the professors LOR's for the schools that require them.

HD

every aspect about MSU makes me want to go there even more, not sure if i'll have the shot, but it seems to be the true to the osteopathic route from the admissions process. especially being a non trad and only having a prof at most 2 times during my pre-reqs, it makes sense to have someone who actually knows you ie. boss or neighbor/etc.

 

[EEL08]

every aspect about MSU makes me want to go there even more, not sure if i'll have the shot, but it seems to be the true to the osteopathic route from the admissions process. especially being a non trad and only having a prof at most 2 times during my pre-reqs, it makes sense to have someone who actually knows you ie. boss or neighbor/etc.

Unfortunately I agree but I still can't imagine shelling out that kind of money each year for OOS. Are any OOSers applying to MSUCOM?

 

[Jpc984]

Unfortunately I agree but I still can't imagine shelling out that kind of money each year for OOS. Are any OOSers applying to MSUCOM?

I am!

 

[lackoftalent]

I am!

me too! although, there's really no way to become instate after the first year, huh?😕

 

[EEL08]

It really does seem like a great school. How do you guys handle the thought of paying so much if you do attend there? Is it anywhere near the top of your list or would you choose other schools because they are less expensive?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

It really does seem like a great school. How do you guys handle the thought of paying so much if you do attend there? Is it anywhere near the top of your list or would you choose other schools because they are less expensive?

It's one of my state schools, so it's at the top of my list for DO programs and it won't be that expensive for me. However, there are multiple schools I would choose over it.....Michigan, Wayne State, MSUCHM, and every other MD program I'm applying to.

 

[desijigga]

So I read on the site that the average gpa for MSUCOM is around 3.6 and the MCAT is 26. With 25% of the students having MCAT over 29 from the entering class of 2007. So when they compare applicants do they do in-state vs in-state or oos vs. oos? Or is it just applicant vs applicant?

 

[Jpc984]

So I read on the site that the average gpa for MSUCOM is around 3.6 and the MCAT is 26. With 25% of the students having MCAT over 29 from the entering class of 2007. So when they compare applicants do they do in-state vs in-state or oos vs. oos? Or is it just applicant vs applicant?

My assumption is they do in-state vs. in-state and oos vs.oos.

Where did you get those stats by the way?

The U.S. News report says their average is about a 25 and 3.51 GPA.

 

[desijigga]

It was in an article about MSUCOM (its on the school website) expansion to a satellite campus. They are expanding the class size by 50-60 students by 2009, near Macomb Community College. The numbers might be a little exaggerated I think (3.6 gpa and 26 MCAT) so to gain support for the expansion, they were put in the article as a response to the concern "If the class size is raised won't student quality go down". But according to the article only 8% of applicants were accepted last year from the total amount.

 

[Ferrismonk]

I know this is backstepping a bit, but I applied last year (albeit late in the cycle) to MSUCOM. When I was waitlisted I went and talked to Kathie Schafer the Director of Admissions. She was very personable and I asked a few questions concerning the secondary application. She said that the reason that they have everyone basically fill out the AACOMAS application over again on their proprietary forms is so they can more uniformly analyze applicants. They really do not do interviews, but she said that was because they felt it unfairly discriminated against people from whom English was their second language. There are little nuances in conversation that someone from a foreign background might not pick up. Also, she said that they found that no new information was really gleaned from the interviews and they basically never helped but only hurt the applicants. It is much easier on the admission committee to review applicants uniformly (through the looonnnngggg secondary app) and to get a good picture of who you are and your commitment to osteopathic medicine through your personal statement and your letters of recommendation (from people that actually know you.)

Her biggest recommendation for new applicants is to apply EARLY. They have a rolling admissions process, so it is to your distinct advantage to apply ASAP.

I hope this helps.
-Travis-

 

[desijigga]

When people say APPLY EARLY, what do you mean? Whats late and whats early? Deadlines for most schools is turn secondary in by March.

A msucom alum (he is also a guest professor, for msucom) once told me that if you are a re-applicant the university gives you special consideration. And also you are competing against less amount of people as before. Do not know how true this is or not.

 

[Jpc984]

When people say APPLY EARLY, what do you mean? Whats late and whats early? Deadlines for most schools is turn secondary in by March.



The SDN rumor is MSUCOM fills most of their class by December. In my opinion, late is after September or October. I would not use the March deadline as a guide to when to apply. Anybody disagree?

 

[superfan56]

When people say APPLY EARLY, what do you mean? Whats late and whats early? Deadlines for most schools is turn secondary in by March.



The SDN rumor is MSUCOM fills most of their class by December. In my opinion, late is after September or October. I would not use the March deadline as a guide to when to apply. Anybody disagree?

they say on their own site, things should be complete by SEPT. to be considered a competitive applicant

 

[Ferrismonk]

That's correct. Thier official deadline is in January sometime and even though last year I got my secondary app in before the deadline, the waitlist was the only option for me since they had already filled thier class. (Truly.)

 

[Jpc984]

That's correct. Thier official deadline is in January sometime and even though last year I got my secondary app in before the deadline, the waitlist was the only option for me since they had already filled thier class. (Truly.)

This was on the AACOM site (for MSUCOM):

"Due to rolling admission, EARLY application is essential. Recommended: AACOMAS application no later than 09/01/06 and Supplemental by 10/15/06"

 

[desijigga]

This might just be unduly jitters, but one of my evaluators made a tiny mistake for the MSUCOM evaluation form.

The site says 2 ways to send in the forms.

Method 1: Complete all sections of the form, sign and mail original.

.Method 2: ..Prepare your comments on a computer, numbered to correspond to the form sections, attach to completed first and last pages of the form.

My evaluator sent me a copy after he sent the form out, he typed it up on computer under the questions, and mailed the original. He filled all the pages out, and signed everything. He didn't do exactly as method 2 says (he typed under the questions instead of numbering it on separate page) . Do you guys get what I'm saying? I'm just freaking out a little.

Example:
.1.Please comment on the applicant’s level of understanding of osteopathic philosophy and commitment to becoming an osteopathic physician.

He understands the philosophy..... blah blah blah


.I don't know what to do, should I just forget about it? Should I tell him to send another one, to not risk anything? OMG will MSU be so anal about it.🙁

Please help!!1
.

 

[Jpc984]

This might just be unduly jitters, but one of my evaluators made a tiny mistake for the MSUCOM evaluation form.

The site says 2 ways to send in the forms.

Method 1: Complete all sections of the form, sign and mail original.

.Method 2: ..Prepare your comments on a computer, numbered to correspond to the form sections, attach to completed first and last pages of the form.

My evaluator sent me a copy after he sent the form out, he typed it up on computer under the questions, and mailed the original. He filled all the pages out, and signed everything. He didn't do exactly as method 2 says (he typed under the questions instead of numbering it on separate page) . Do you guys get what I'm saying? I'm just freaking out a little.

Example:
.1.Please comment on the applicant's level of understanding of osteopathic philosophy and commitment to becoming an osteopathic physician.

He understands the philosophy..... blah blah blah


.I don't know what to do, should I just forget about it? Should I tell him to send another one, to not risk anything? OMG will MSU be so anal about it.🙁

Please help!!1
.

That sounds like method 1! No? In addition, I don't think you should do anything. It would insinuate you saw the LOR. Did you say it was a confidential LOR? I don't think MSUCOM will punish you because your reference didn't follow directons.

 

[desijigga]

That sounds like method 1! No? In addition, I don't think you should do anything. It would insinuate you saw the LOR. Did you say it was a confidential LOR? I don't think MSUCOM will punish you because your reference didn't follow directons.

I'm just real paranoid, I really want to go to msu and don't want to screwed over some technicality. I marked to waive the right to see the letter when I mailed him the forms, but my evaluator still sent me the email after he had send out the forms. I just couldn't put my self from not looking at it . Anyways your right I'm just going to forget about it and focus on other secondaries, Thank you so much again for replying back so fast.

 

[DocWearUrMac]

So, this school costs in excess of ninety thousand dollars per year? Wow.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

So, this school costs in excess of ninety thousand dollars per year? Wow.

you rock for using the search button, however you did not need to bump a 4 year old thread to ask that question.

 

[And I Was Like]

What you need to keep in mind most students apply to DO schools as a backup in case they don't get accepted to MD schools.

Fixed that for you.

For most students, DO is a back-up. MSU has such secondary questions because, like most DO schools, they want their students to "embrace the osteopathic 'philosophy' and profession."

Truth.

 

[Mbeas]

Fixed that for you.

For most students, DO is a back-up. MSU has such secondary questions because, like most DO schools, they want their students to "embrace the osteopathic 'philosophy' and profession."

Truth.

lol at your attempt at trolling and lol for responding to a 4 year old post

 

[And I Was Like]

lol at your attempt at trolling and lol for responding to a 4 year old post

1) I'm not "trolling" if something I said was wrong then tell me, it's not. I said absolutely nothing wrong, or misleading, just a statement of facts.

2) I didn't do the first reply on this thread, I didn't even realize how old it was until after I posted. 2 posts above me someone resurrected this thread.

 

[Mbeas]

1) I'm not "trolling" if something I said was wrong then tell me, it's not. I said absolutely nothing wrong, or misleading, just a statement of facts.

2) I didn't do the first reply on this thread, I didn't even realize how old it was until after I posted. 2 posts above me someone resurrected this thread.

1) Per Wiki: "a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

You know what you said gets under people's skin; especially when you are making broad generalizations based on anecdotal evidence and then declare "Truth". You are making hyperbolic claims without any referenced statistics/data. We know you are an "MD student". There is no need to continue posting inflammatory crap to stroke your ego.

Also, your post was completely off topic (another characteristic of a troll). Did you see the title of the thread? If you want posts these types of comments, see the MD vs. DO thread. (Now you are going to call me a troll because this post doesn't relate to Michigan State Osteopathic Letters. amirite?)

So yes, you are "trolling", per the definition of a "troll".

2) I didn't say you resurrected the thread. I said you responded to a 4 year old post, which you did.

 

[And I Was Like]

1) Per Wiki: "a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

You know what you said gets under people's skin; especially when you are making broad generalizations based on anecdotal evidence and then declare "Truth". You are making hyperbolic claims without any referenced statistics/data. We know you are an "MD student". There is no need to continue posting inflammatory crap to stroke your ego.

Also, your post was completely off topic (another characteristic of a troll). Did you see the title of the thread? If you want posts these types of comments, see the MD vs. DO thread. (Now you are going to call me a troll because this post doesn't relate to Michigan State Osteopathic Letters. amirite?)

So yes, you are "trolling", per the definition of a "troll".

2) I didn't say you resurrected the thread. I said you responded to a 4 year old post, which you did.

Taking this so seriously! Defending your honor, I see. However, I'm not attempted to insult anyone. The truth is a vast vast vast majority of the time people will choose MD over DO (minus big exceptions)

70% of DO applicants applied MD, 44% of those applied unsuccessfully to MD schools. Over 1/3 of DO matriculants were rejected from MD schools. (speculation on my part: self-selection by DO applicants makes this number this low, I suspect it's larger)

A few pages down from this data, on page 7, a nice pie chart is drawn showing that 88.6% of people who were accepted at both MD and DO went MD, with 1.8% going neither.

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/Documents/AppRpt2009.pdf

The truth is, for most people DO is a backup. Does it make DO anything less than MD, absolutely not, they're legal and profession equivalents. But, there's no use in pretend that most would prefer the MD, and the statistics from AACOM themselves back this up.

The sample size is also fairly small and many DO students may be hesitant about admitting their failure to obtain MD admission. Note: This does not make a DO student any more or less competent than an MD student.

None of this evidence is "anecdotal". Anecdotal Evidence would be saying I was originally accepted to a DO school and once I got the acceptance from a MD school, the decision about which one to go to was literally the easiest decision I've ever made in my life.

I will say this again: DOs are the professional and legal equivalents to MDs.

Also, nice use of a wiki as a source for internet slang.

 

[Mbeas]

Taking this so seriously! Defending your honor, I see. However, I'm not attempted to insult anyone. The truth is a vast vast vast majority of the time people will choose MD over DO (minus big exceptions)

I agree with this. It's different, though, to demean the profession by calling it a backup. I've read many of your comments in other threads, and I truly believe you have an ulterior motive.

As for defending my honor, not really. I'm just a lowly pre-med trying to get into medical school. I have no honor to defend at this point.

70% of DO applicants applied MD, 44% of those applied unsuccessfully to MD schools. Over 1/3 of DO matriculants were rejected from MD schools. (speculation on my part: self-selection by DO applicants makes this number this low, I suspect it's larger)

A few pages down from this data, on page 7, a nice pie chart is drawn showing that 88.6% of people who were accepted at both MD and DO went MD, with 1.8% going neither.

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/Documents/AppRpt2009.pdf

The truth is, for most people DO is a backup. Does it make DO anything less than MD, absolutely not, they're legal and profession equivalents. But, there's no use in pretend that most would prefer the MD, and the statistics from AACOM themselves back this up.

The sample size is also fairly small and many DO students may be hesitant about admitting their failure to obtain MD admission. Note: This does not make a DO student any more or less competent than an MD student.

So most people would choose MD over DO...no ****, sherlock. That's not the point.

The point is you constantly venture over to pre-osteo and post inflammatory comments to stroke you ego, as if you need continuous reiteration that you are somehow "superior". You try to mask this by claiming that DO's are equivalent to MD's. You always add this little statement to all of your posts. If you truly thought this, why would you continue to post *knowingly* instigative comments? Is it wrong to take an alternative pathway to acheive your goals? I don't understand your agenda here.

The comment was completely uncalled for as it has nothing to do with the thread topic. If you weren't trying to illicit a response, you wouldn't have posted it. It's really a matter of principle.

I do appreciate the link above, though. Thank you for that.

None of this evidence is "anecdotal". Anecdotal Evidence would be saying I was originally accepted to a DO school and once I got the acceptance from a MD school, the decision about which one to go to was literally the easiest decision I've ever made in my life.

I will say this again: DOs are the professional and legal equivalents to MDs.

Also, nice use of a wiki as a source for internet slang.

And the problem with that is....? I've even used wiki to help me study for my MCAT (as many others have). Why is that so wrong? Nice try at an insult.

^^^

 

[Everglide]

So, this school costs in excess of ninety thousand dollars per year? Wow.

Not unless you're out of state, taking full loan amounts and donating an extra $20,000 for fun.

 

[p1acebo]

Taking this so seriously! Defending your honor, I see. However, I'm not attempted to insult anyone. The truth is a vast vast vast majority of the time people will choose MD over DO (minus big exceptions)

70% of DO applicants applied MD, 44% of those applied unsuccessfully to MD schools. Over 1/3 of DO matriculants were rejected from MD schools. (speculation on my part: self-selection by DO applicants makes this number this low, I suspect it's larger)

A few pages down from this data, on page 7, a nice pie chart is drawn showing that 88.6% of people who were accepted at both MD and DO went MD, with 1.8% going neither.

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/Documents/AppRpt2009.pdf

The truth is, for most people DO is a backup. Does it make DO anything less than MD, absolutely not, they're legal and profession equivalents. But, there's no use in pretend that most would prefer the MD, and the statistics from AACOM themselves back this up.

The sample size is also fairly small and many DO students may be hesitant about admitting their failure to obtain MD admission. Note: This does not make a DO student any more or less competent than an MD student.

None of this evidence is "anecdotal". Anecdotal Evidence would be saying I was originally accepted to a DO school and once I got the acceptance from a MD school, the decision about which one to go to was literally the easiest decision I've ever made in my life.

I will say this again: DOs are the professional and legal equivalents to MDs.

Also, nice use of a wiki as a source for internet slang.

Time well spent (I guess), and for some this might be useful information. However, you're still going to be labeled a troll for posting information that is irrelevant to what the OP was asking.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

good god, the thread is 4 years old. just let it DIE.

 

[And I Was Like]

^^^

1) I posted my original reply in... reply to what someone else said that was erroneous.

2) I state my beliefs about DOs being equal because in the past people automatically assumed I was attacking DOs or anti-DO.

3) I post this data because half-truths and flat out lies are not helping to further any profession. I'm well aware this data I posted is not lovey-dovey towards DOs. But, every time I see misinformation I respond. I would do the same to someone on the pre-md forums who was anti-DO, but usually the threads are locked/someone says what I would have said.

I'm very sorry you feel I'm attacking you or anyone else, that's not my intent. My intent is now, and has always been, to stop the spread of such deliberate misinformation, I will not sugar-coat.

 

[Mbeas]

My intent is now, and has always been, to stop the spread of such deliberate misinformation, I will not sugar-coat.

Great, thank you for your service(s).

Although, you may want to head over to pre-allo first, because there is a bit more "deliberate misinformation" that gets spewed on an hourly basis (considering all the high school/freshman students that have no idea what they are talking about).

 

[And I Was Like]

Great, thank you for your service(s).

Although, you may want to head over to pre-allo first, because there is a bit more "deliberate misinformation" that gets spewed on an hourly basis (considering all the high school/freshman students that have no idea what they are talking about).

lol.

long story short, most of the misinformation there is trolls, or gets jumped on quickly by the Adcoms/physicians that patrol it. Here there seems to be a wealth of misinformation. Like I said, I'm not attacking anyone, I'm simply stating facts.

 

[Mbeas]

lol.


long story short, most of the misinformation there is trolls, or gets jumped on quickly by the Adcoms/physicians that patrol it. Here there seems to be a wealth of misinformation. Like I said, I'm not attacking anyone, I'm simply stating facts.

Thank you again for your relentless, selfless care that you have given to pre-osteo by patrolling for misinformation.

Now, go post some of those hilarious jpeg's in pre-allo. I hear they love them over there.

 

[And I Was Like]

Thank you again for your relentless, selfless care that you have given to pre-osteo by patrolling for misinformation.

Now, go post some of those hilarious jpeg's in pre-allo. I hear they love them over there.

Alright, I can see our discussion is going to go nowhere. You're obviously angry for a reason I can't quite discern, but that's alright.

I know you said you're pre-med, so best of luck in your applications! 🙂

 

[Mbeas]

Alright, I can see our discussion is going to go nowhere. You're obviously angry for a reason I can't quite discern, but that's alright.

I know you said you're pre-med, so best of luck in your applications! 🙂

Thanks 😀

Good luck with M1

 

[BullDog4Eva]

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