Mid career changer? MCAT prep. Or Prereq's first?

[engr2dr]

Greetings from Houston!

I am working as an engineer in Oil and Gas (IT dept). I have always wanted to be a doctor but became an engineer when I did not clear med. school in the first attempt but got admissions to an engineering college.
I don't feel passionate about engineering at all and all I can think is to follow the footsteps of my paternal granddad (who was a famous physician in a small village in India).

I have a question on the preparation for applying for medical school. Should I start with mcat or finish the pre-req's first? Please advise. Also, any tips on good prep. books?

How do I get clinical hours? How is clinical hours different from volunteer hours? Also, is there a fixed number of hours one has to suffice for admissions?

I will be turning 32 this year but my motivation to pursue my dream of going to medical school gets stronger every year! As someone mentioned below, at an older it brings in a whole new perspective into the career.

Thank you all for your help!

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[familyaerospace]

1) Do the pre-reqs, they will help you for the MCAT

2) You got me, I am trying to retake for another MCAT round and I was disappointed in the sources I used last time (EK, Kaplan, Gold Standard). I am getting the hyperreview books from TPR this time and the premed bundle from wikipremed. I have pdfs of TBR, but the print is so small that I can't read or use them.

3) You shadow or sign up to be a medical volunteer at a hospital.

4) Medical volunteering is a subset of volunteering. Clinical is when you interact with the patients.

5) Quality over quantity. Seriously, that is huge. Aim for like 50-100 shadowing (which might be overkill or might not depending on the school). Aim for a few hundred medical volunteering. There is no actual "You must have X amount of hours" but you are competing with people who have hundreds or possibly thousands of hours.

 

[Aelius]

I can't see any advantages of taking the MCAT before doing your pre-reqs.

 

[Goro]

Most hospitals have volunteer dep'ts. But not all clinical volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think clinics, hospice, nursing homes, Planned Parenthood.

For non-clinical volunteering, contact your local houses of worship.

the typical applicant has >100 hrs volunteering in clinical stuff. Ditto for non-clinical.

How do I get clinical hours? How is clinical hours different from volunteer hours? Also, is there a fixed number of hours one has to suffice for admissions?

Go check out my thread in the Pre-allo section for "Goro's guide to admissions"

I will be turning 32 this year but my motivation to pursue my dream of going to medical school gets stronger every year! As someone mentioned below, at an older it brings in a whole new perspective into the career.

 

[Shjanzey]

Definitely do pre-reqs first. I tried the MCAT first route and totally bombed. I also come from an Engineering background. Take my example, save yourself some pain. Don't get impatient because that extra time you spend understanding the fundamental material necessary for the MCAT is going to pay off.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Aside from the fact that pre-reqs help prepare you for the MCAT, you also don't want to take it too far ahead of time, because scores expire after 3 years ... if you take it early and there is a hiccup in your plans or you don't get in on your first cycle, you could be faced with having to re-take it.

 

[engr2dr]

1) Do the pre-reqs, they will help you for the MCAT

2) You got me, I am trying to retake for another MCAT round and I was disappointed in the sources I used last time (EK, Kaplan, Gold Standard). I am getting the hyperreview books from TPR this time and the premed bundle from wikipremed. I have pdfs of TBR, but the print is so small that I can't read or use them.

3) You shadow or sign up to be a medical volunteer at a hospital.

4) Medical volunteering is a subset of volunteering. Clinical is when you interact with the patients.

5) Quality over quantity. Seriously, that is huge. Aim for like 50-100 shadowing (which might be overkill or might not depending on the school). Aim for a few hundred medical volunteering. There is no actual "You must have X amount of hours" but you are competing with people who have hundreds or possibly thousands of hours.

=======================================
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom! I will keep them in mind!!!

PS: Still perplexed about how students can have thousand of hours... it's really like WOW @_@

 

[engr2dr]

I can't see any advantages of taking the MCAT before doing your pre-reqs.

=======================
After reading all these posts, I tend to agree with you. I will set my foundations and then try to crack MCAT.
Thanks for your advise!

 

[engr2dr]

Definitely do pre-reqs first. I tried the MCAT first route and totally bombed. I also come from an Engineering background. Take my example, save yourself some pain. Don't get impatient because that extra time you spend understanding the fundamental material necessary for the MCAT is going to pay off.

============================

Hi Shjanzey,

So glad to hear from someone with Engineering background. I will keep your experience on the top of my mind.
Any recommendations on the books to study to get the basics from biology and brush up the chem and physics?

Thanks again for your post!

 

[engr2dr]

Aside from the fact that pre-reqs help prepare you for the MCAT, you also don't want to take it too far ahead of time, because scores expire after 3 years ... if you take it early and there is a hiccup in your plans or you don't get in on your first cycle, you could be faced with having to re-take it.

===================
Thanks Plecopotamus!
That is a super good point. For some reason, I thought the scores are valid for 5 years. 3 years makes it quite close the pre-req completion time.
I am taking MCAT after pre-reqs for sure. Also being from engineering background, I need to work a lot on biology and brush up my rusty chem and physics basics.

Really appreciate your input!!!

 

[QofQuimica]

PS: Still perplexed about how students can have thousand of hours... it's really like WOW @_@

They start as freshmen (or earlier) and volunteer consistently (several hours per week) over a period of several years. Some have multiple volunteer gigs or have even started their own volunteer organizations. It's not necessary to volunteer thousands of hours, and many nontrads don't have the time. That's fine. But everyone can volunteer 100 hours in a year just by volunteering two hours per week; it's simply a matter of making service a priority and finding an organization you're passionate about. There's really no excuse for people to apply having no volunteer service at all.

 

[Shjanzey]

============================

Hi Shjanzey,

So glad to hear from someone with Engineering background. I will keep your experience on the top of my mind.
Any recommendations on the books to study to get the basics from biology and brush up the chem and physics?

Thanks again for your post!

I think I have several recommendations for you. It all depends on how much time you have and how far you are willing to go.

I personally chose to take several classes at the local community college to help fill missing pre-requisites as well as for review. The review class I took was Physics. As an Engineer I topped out the class, but the experience was valuable because it revealed to me how much simpler I need to treat the subject when I approach the MCAT. Before I would lose a lot of time on the practice tests because I was deriving equations, or trying to calculate very exact numbers. =_=

I suggest using Berkeley Review prep books. I found them extremely detailed, and each book has practice sections at the end of each chapter, which are invaluable. I also started doing Kaplan's comprehensive test prep. I originally was against Kaplan, but after using their system for several months I was quite impressed. The online reviews are done live, and they pair you up with a mentor. A very detailed schedule is layed out for you. If you tend to need hand-holding or someone pushing you along, then Kaplan is probably your best option. Getting through Berkeley Review takes pure discipline and self-motivation.

In any case I can't speak to the final results of Kaplan, because I got accepted after beginning their course, so I dropped it to focus on other things. I want to also state that Kaplan gave me a full refund, which they didn't have to do, and their customer service was great.

Between those two sources, and your pre-requisite classes, I really don't think you need any other supplementary material. I have looked through examkrackers and Princeton Review books as well. They present the same material, so I would only get those books for practice questions. Once you have done all your review and feel comfortable with the material. Doing thousands of questions and practice tests is what will reveal your weaknesses. Pay attention to the things you miss and never assume you were "unlucky". The Kaplan Q-bank for MCAT is awesome.

I hope that helps you get started

 

[coogs08]

Welcome! I am also an engineer (mechanical) in the O&G industry in Houston. I too always wanted to go into medicine, but I became very lazy in undergrad and just couldn't fathom going to grad school, so I sort of just 'settled' for becoming an engineer. Don't get me wrong though I do enjoy my current job, however it is definitely not my 'dream' job. Over the last year or so, I have been talking about going back to school, and I finally made the decision 2 months ago to just do it by signing up for my first pre-req.

I just began taking courses this summer, currently taking chemistry I. The one thing I find amazing is how much different it is taking courses now as a 30 year old professional and husband/father, versus an immature 18 year old. I actually care very deeply about making an A and giving maximum effort now. In some ways it seems a lot easier, as I am pretty much forced to manage my time well (full-time job/9 month old baby/wife). It is actually somewhat enjoyable.

Best of luck, this forum has been a great resource thus far. I have done lots of research over the past few months and spoken to other non-trads. Feel free to PM me as it seems we are in very similar situations.

-Avi

 

[engr2dr]

Welcome! I am also an engineer (mechanical) in the O&G industry in Houston. I too always wanted to go into medicine, but I became very lazy in undergrad and just couldn't fathom going to grad school, so I sort of just 'settled' for becoming an engineer. Don't get me wrong though I do enjoy my current job, however it is definitely not my 'dream' job. Over the last year or so, I have been talking about going back to school, and I finally made the decision 2 months ago to just do it by signing up for my first pre-req.

I just began taking courses this summer, currently taking chemistry I. The one thing I find amazing is how much different it is taking courses now as a 30 year old professional and husband/father, versus an immature 18 year old. I actually care very deeply about making an A and giving maximum effort now. In some ways it seems a lot easier, as I am pretty much forced to manage my time well (full-time job/9 month old baby/wife). It is actually somewhat enjoyable.

Best of luck, this forum has been a great resource thus far. I have done lots of research over the past few months and spoken to other non-trads. Feel free to PM me as it seems we are in very similar situations.

-Avi

Hi coogs08,

I thought of starting with Princeton Bio/Biochem MCAT. I feel so stuck and overwhelmed with this book that I am wondering if I should brush up the basics with some easy book before using MCAT Prep. Any recommendations on the books for Bio and Biochem? Which books are you using to prepare for?

 

[coogs08]

Hi coogs08,

I thought of starting with Princeton Bio/Biochem MCAT. I feel so stuck and overwhelmed with this book that I am wondering if I should brush up the basics with some easy book before using MCAT Prep. Any recommendations on the books for Bio and Biochem? Which books are you using to prepare for?

Hi there,

I haven't even started studying for the MCAT as I literally just began taking my prereqs this summer (currently taking chemistry I). I will begin my MCAT prep next year after taking OCHEM I. As a mechanical engineer, I never had to take organic chemistry so it is completely foreign to me.

There is zero benefit IMO of taking the MCAT before the pre-reqs...I don't even know how you could possibly do well on the MCAT without having taken the pre-reqs recently. Besides, based on your age, I'm guessing it's been over 10 years since you've taken any type of chemistry or physics so it would be beneficial to take them again anyway as med schools like to see fairly recent coursework.

 

[Geekman55]

Welcome! I am also an engineer (mechanical) in the O&G industry in Houston. I too always wanted to go into medicine, but I became very lazy in undergrad and just couldn't fathom going to grad school, so I sort of just 'settled' for becoming an engineer. Don't get me wrong though I do enjoy my current job, however it is definitely not my 'dream' job. Over the last year or so, I have been talking about going back to school, and I finally made the decision 2 months ago to just do it by signing up for my first pre-req.

I just began taking courses this summer, currently taking chemistry I. The one thing I find amazing is how much different it is taking courses now as a 30 year old professional and husband/father, versus an immature 18 year old. I actually care very deeply about making an A and giving maximum effort now. In some ways it seems a lot easier, as I am pretty much forced to manage my time well (full-time job/9 month old baby/wife). It is actually somewhat enjoyable.

Best of luck, this forum has been a great resource thus far. I have done lots of research over the past few months and spoken to other non-trads. Feel free to PM me as it seems we are in very similar situations.

-Avi

Hi there,

I haven't even started studying for the MCAT as I literally just began taking my prereqs this summer (currently taking chemistry I). I will begin my MCAT prep next year after taking OCHEM I. As a mechanical engineer, I never had to take organic chemistry so it is completely foreign to me.

There is zero benefit IMO of taking the MCAT before the pre-reqs...I don't even know how you could possibly do well on the MCAT without having taken the pre-reqs recently. Besides, based on your age, I'm guessing it's been over 10 years since you've taken any type of chemistry or physics so it would be beneficial to take them again anyway as med schools like to see fairly recent coursework.

Both of you are taking Chemistry? Didn't you have to take Chemistry as an engineer? I am an electrical engineer and thinking about going for my prereqs in the Spring. I am debating whether it would be better to do a full postbac program which includes Chemistry or just go straight to Organic Chemistry and Biology in a do-it-yourself method and complete just the bare minimum required to save $$.

If I were to take Chemistry again, would it replace the B I got in undergrad or would they then be averaged together? Assuming I get an A this time, would I then have a 3.5 GPA in Chemistry?

 

[coogs08]

Both of you are taking Chemistry? Didn't you have to take Chemistry as an engineer? I am an electrical engineer and thinking about going for my prereqs in the Spring. I am debating whether it would be better to do a full postbac program which includes Chemistry or just go straight to Organic Chemistry and Biology in a do-it-yourself method and complete just the bare minimum required to save $$.

If I were to take Chemistry again, would it replace the B I got in undergrad or would they then be averaged together? Assuming I get an A this time, would I then have a 3.5 GPA in Chemistry?

Yes I had to take chemistry, but it was a 'Chemistry for Engineers' course which isn't applicable to science majors. Medical schools want to see chem, bio, and physics courses which are for chemistry or biology majors. Also, it was 12 years ago I couldn't imagine jumping straight into O Chem after not taking any chemistry courses (much less any courses) in 12 years. I am doing a DIY post-bacc.

As for your grade, MD schools will average them and DO schools will replace the old grade with the new one. This is because allopathic schools and osteopathic schools have different applications.

 

[Geekman55]

Yes I had to take chemistry, but it was a 'Chemistry for Engineers' course which isn't applicable to science majors. Medical schools want to see chem, bio, and physics courses which are for chemistry or biology majors. Also, it was 12 years ago I couldn't imagine jumping straight into O Chem after not taking any chemistry courses (much less any courses) in 12 years. I am doing a DIY post-bacc.

As for your grade, MD schools will average them and DO schools will replace the old grade with the new one. This is because allopathic schools and osteopathic schools have different applications.

Can you apply to both MD and DO at the same time? I don't completely understand the difference but it seems MD is more popular and requires better MCAT while DO requires a higher GPA. That's probably a huge generalization.

My Chem class was in the chemistry department since I was an EE. However that was nearly 10 years ago to so I may consider what you have done. If I don't I would just need to review chemistry heavily this fall when I'm not taking any classes.

 

[coogs08]

Can you apply to both MD and DO at the same time? I don't completely understand the difference but it seems MD is more popular and requires better MCAT while DO requires a higher GPA. That's probably a huge generalization.

My Chem class was in the chemistry department since I was an EE. However that was nearly 10 years ago to so I may consider what you have done. If I don't I would just need to review chemistry heavily this fall when I'm not taking any classes.

Yes you definitely can apply to both at the same time. There isn't really a way to differentiate the acceptance standards between MD and DO, although it is definitely tougher to get into an MD school from a GPA/MCAT perspective. The DO schools seem to look more at the overall application rather than just GPA and MCAT, and are also known to be more friendly towards non-traditional applicants. The DO grade replacement policy also greatly helps non-trads who didn't fare too well in their pre-reqs during undergrad.

Yeah you could just review, you might be able to get by. I will tell you something though, taking a course now feels totally different than it did 12 years ago. I am much more focused and it is somewhat enjoyable. Why not just re-take Chem I at a local community college as a refresher course? That is what I am doing. I plan to take Chem and Bio I & II at my local community college, then take O chem I & II, Biochem, and Microbio at my alma mater.

 

[Geekman55]

Yes you definitely can apply to both at the same time. There isn't really a way to differentiate the acceptance standards between MD and DO, although it is definitely tougher to get into an MD school from a GPA/MCAT perspective. The DO schools seem to look more at the overall application rather than just GPA and MCAT, and are also known to be more friendly towards non-traditional applicants. The DO grade replacement policy also greatly helps non-trads who didn't fare too well in their pre-reqs during undergrad.

Yeah you could just review, you might be able to get by. I will tell you something though, taking a course now feels totally different than it did 12 years ago. I am much more focused and it is somewhat enjoyable. Why not just re-take Chem I at a local community college as a refresher course? That is what I am doing. I plan to take Chem and Bio I & II at my local community college, then take O chem I & II, Biochem, and Microbio at my alma mater.

I could, but that would only help me if for some reason I can get a late admission into a community college this Fall. If not, I assume just take all my prereqs at CU in Boulder which is only 15 mins away.

I hear you on the maturity of taking classes now. I am so amped to take some classes and I really feel like I might have found something I'm truly interested in in medicine. I've been in school almost my whole life though. I did my undergrad from 05-09, then I enrolled immediately into grad school while working full-time and completed that about 1.5-2 yrs ago. Not to mention I entered a 2 year rigorous engineering leadership program at work. The last couple years of no school has left me bored and uninterested. At this point I can't really imagine staying in Engineering and medicine is the only thing I can think would interest me.

This Fall I also want to get some good volunteer time in at some hospitals or do some shadowing which will help my acceptance into med school.

I'm seriously considering just doing the postbac program at CU if I can get in. It is a year long, about 20k, but it should really help me gain admission into CU-Anschutz in Denver as long as I get As and do well on the MCAT. By that point, I'll have around 30k in student debt and rack up another 240k the first 4 years of med school. Ouch......

 

[coogs08]

I could, but that would only help me if for some reason I can get a late admission into a community college this Fall. If not, I assume just take all my prereqs at CU in Boulder which is only 15 mins away.

I hear you on the maturity of taking classes now. I am so amped to take some classes and I really feel like I might have found something I'm truly interested in in medicine. I've been in school almost my whole life though. I did my undergrad from 05-09, then I enrolled immediately into grad school while working full-time and completed that about 1.5-2 yrs ago. Not to mention I entered a 2 year rigorous engineering leadership program at work. The last couple years of no school has left me bored and uninterested. At this point I can't really imagine staying in Engineering and medicine is the only thing I can think would interest me.

This Fall I also want to get some good volunteer time in at some hospitals or do some shadowing which will help my acceptance into med school.

I'm seriously considering just doing the postbac program at CU if I can get in. It is a year long, about 20k, but it should really help me gain admission into CU-Anschutz in Denver as long as I get As and do well on the MCAT. By that point, I'll have around 30k in student debt and rack up another 240k the first 4 years of med school. Ouch......

There is a formal post bacc program in my city as well, but I would have to go to school full-time and consequently quit my job and it's not something I can afford to do with a family. Even if it was just me by myself, I'm still not sure that I would do it though...

 

[Geekman55]

There is a formal post bacc program in my city as well, but I would have to go to school full-time and consequently quit my job and it's not something I can afford to do with a family. Even if it was just me by myself, I'm still not sure that I would do it though...

Yeah I'm not sure it would be a good idea for me either. Especially if I didn't get into a good school I would have to look for another job until the next cycle.

 

[jl lin]

It makes absolutely no sense to take the MCAT prior to the pre-reqs. Perhaps 1: 100,000 or so might fair well enough; but it's just too darn risky. Better to try to look at the MCAT as a one-shot deal. (Sure people re-take, but you don't want to be in that position if at all possible.).

As far as the pre-reqs, some people have to mix it up with different schools. This is b/c of their lives, course availability, a number of factors. I mean this would be particularly true for a fair number of non-trads. You have to do the best with the choices and conditions presented to you--your particular situation.

Regardless, don't attempt the MCAT prior to taking the appropriate coursework.

 

[engr2dr]

Welcome! I am also an engineer (mechanical) in the O&G industry in Houston. I too always wanted to go into medicine, but I became very lazy in undergrad and just couldn't fathom going to grad school, so I sort of just 'settled' for becoming an engineer. Don't get me wrong though I do enjoy my current job, however it is definitely not my 'dream' job. Over the last year or so, I have been talking about going back to school, and I finally made the decision 2 months ago to just do it by signing up for my first pre-req.

I just began taking courses this summer, currently taking chemistry I. The one thing I find amazing is how much different it is taking courses now as a 30 year old professional and husband/father, versus an immature 18 year old. I actually care very deeply about making an A and giving maximum effort now. In some ways it seems a lot easier, as I am pretty much forced to manage my time well (full-time job/9 month old baby/wife). It is actually somewhat enjoyable.

Best of luck, this forum has been a great resource thus far. I have done lots of research over the past few months and spoken to other non-trads. Feel free to PM me as it seems we are in very similar situations.

-Avi

Hey Avi,

I was curious as to how is your prep. going. Are you using TBR? I am not sure about you but I get totally beat up after 8-10 hours of work and barely study on weekdays... how are you managing it with a family (with a baby)? Tips please!

- bw

 

[operaman]

At the risk of being a contrarian, I took the MCAT before I took the pre-reqs. My reasoning way to shorten the application time by 1 year. See, normally it would have been 1 year of pre-reqs, then MCAT, then applying the next year. Doing MCAT then pre-reqs shaved a year off the process. Did pretty darn well on the MCAT too, but probably could have easily gotten a 40+ if I'd ever set foot in a science classroom beforehand. I spoke with the adcom reps at my school and found out they also gave some extra "points" to reapplicants, so my original plan: take mcat, apply, take pre-reqs, get rejected, retake MCAT, reapply, get accepted. Never expected to get in on the first shot, but thought it was worth trying if it saved a year.

In retrospect, I'm awfully glad to know I'm finishing soon. Part of me wonders how I might have fared had I waited, banged out 40+ on the MCAT, applied in June instead of September, and applied broadly. I grew up before school rank really meant anything, but apparently it's all the rage now and I could have probably gotten in to a higher ranked school. But, that doesn't really matter to me and I've gotten a great education where I am and I am poised to do very well with residency apps this year.

So those are the cliff's notes of my story. I'm a VERY gifted test taker which is what made this possible. Many very smart people struggle with the MCAT, so respect it. It's not an easy test by any stretch. Saving a year made sense given my own personal situation, but there's no rush and waiting a year isn't a big deal.

 

[HesyRa]

Welcome to the forums! I was also in the Oil and Gas industry working as a petroleum geologist, so I know what being in that business is like. There is certainly not a lot of emphasis on being of service to other people.

First off, I think it is fair to say that you are stressing yourself out WAY too much about studying for the MCAT. It seems like you have at least 2-3 semesters worth of pre-req's that need to be done. If I have one piece of advice, it is to take the process one step at a time. When you begin thinking about everything you have to do, it quickly becomes overwhelming. Attempting to volunteer, going back to school, quitting your job, and studying for the MCAT all at once is simply asking for a break down.

I would start by selecting the school where you plan on enrolling in your pre-req's. Figure out what program works best for you and your schedule/life. As others have stated, community college is a possibility. The opinions on how medical school admission committees view community college classes is mixed. Generally, it is a better idea to go to a 4 year university to take classes. You cannot possibly expect to stand a good chance against the MCAT without taking all your chem/o-chem/physics and intro bio.

Once you are settled in with courses, and you are not feeling overwhelmed by them, then start to think about where you would like to volunteer. It is easy enough to build up a large number of hours in the course of 12 months. If you volunteered for 4 hours a week for 52 weeks, you'd already have 200.

Lastly, concern yourself with the MCAT when it comes time. You may not know when that time will be at this point in the process (I most certainly wasn't sure), but you will know when the time is right. As far as what study material is best... the first thing to remember is that the test is changing quite dramatically in 4 months time. There will be sections of social sciences as well. So, it is hard to say who will provide the best review content. Regardless, I would suggest committing 3 months to studying for the exam. Ultimately it is about how YOU study. TBR is great if you can apply yourself without any instruction. Whatever you choose, I would recommend getting EK books in addition (but not solely). They are good for quizzing yourself. I took a Kaplan course. The course instruction was so-so, but the review materials that they provide are great! You will likely see people saying that Kaplan is crap. I guarantee that is because they relied only on the classes and didn't do a lot of practicing with subject and section tests.

Best of luck to you!